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Tsubasa Vs Kyogre (Awwww sh** here go again, sorta)

Dragopentling

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A bit of spoilers, be warned..... For anyone caught up with Symphogear XV, I'm pretty sure you've seen this, right?

247873A5-7F0F-446C-AE02-99B6C8FD8D27
Kyogre turned into an Alca-Noise??

Well, Tsubasa cut that thing down pretty easily, so I was thinking. Why not match up against the "real" thing?

Speed equalized. Both in-character. GX key for Tsubasa is used, and X-Drive is not off-limits, but she doesn't start out with it (for obvious reasons). Primal Kyogre is used here.

Battlefield is in very same district. Starting distance is similar to how anime depicted it, with Kyogre in flight about half an kilometer above (guesstimating here) and Tsubasa starting off on the ground looking back at 45 degree angle.

Win VIA KO or death.

Swordswomen:

Destroyah Willy (get the ref?):

Nobody wins:

BG Music: Defender'Z Brand

Tsubasa-ready
KyogreStorm
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Seriously, Kyogre can just flood the Earth, then tire her out until she loses X Drive.
Click to expand...
It wasn't listed in Abilities yet, but X Drive gives the girls self-sustenance and telepathy even in space, so I honestly don't see how that doesn't apply for underwater.
 
Grab Cal and Weekly for this one. I'll try to get the Symphogear supporters here, too. I'm not gonna make the arguments, I'm just here to list what I know could be helpful info from Symphogear.
 
Gonna follow this one. Seems legit interesting.
 
Isn't she Large Star Level in X-Drive tho? If she allowed to use it, she'd put Kyogre down pretty quickly
 
Kyogre is High 6-A. In base.

It's 5-B as well, but only during Primal Reversion.
 
Drite77 said:
Wasn't Kyogre supposed to be downgraded to High 6-A?
Click to expand...
No, that thread died and I hope it stays dead. At very least, Primal Kyogre is comparable to Rayquaza.
 
Starter Pack said:
Kyogre is High 6-A. In base.
It's 5-B as well, but only during Primal Reversion.
Click to expand...
No, Downgrade to High 6-A in Primal Form is what i am saying
 
No, Downgrade to High 6-A in Primal Form is what i am saying

I said before, it's no longer a major concern for discussion, and Primal Kyogre at very least is comparable to base Rayquaza, whom had a feat in destroying a planet-busting meteor in Mystery Dungeons (and no one even bothered bringing that up for proper discussion, anyway).
 
Gojira1234 said:
Isn't she Large Star Level in X-Drive tho? If she allowed to use it, she'd put Kyogre down pretty quickly
Click to expand...
I just figured something amusing from this. You know how I've had to restrict X Drive in previously Symphogear match threads I've attempted due to the nature of how X Drive needs to be attained? Here, I don't see a problem with X Drive attained via a certain someone's resounding bellows/roars, which Primal Kyogre did before he started consuming the planet in a ginormous storm. Phonic Gain IS a sound-based principle, after all.
 
But that's not the problem. The problem is if Tsubasa goes into X-Drive then it's a stomp
 
Gojira1234 said:
But that's not the problem. The problem is if Tsubasa goes into X-Drive then it's a stomp
Click to expand...
That's why I did state that she won't immediately go into it in-character unless things get really bad. She does still have the Ignite Module option, which she might go for early. I feel like in this key, she may try to finish the battle quickly before the setbacks of IGNITE kick in.
 
I'm just saying she shouldn't have access to X-Drive if it'd result in an outright stomp. That being said I think Tsubasa takes this either way. Both are about as versatile as each other (albeit in different ways), but I think Tsubasa just has a better arsenal at her disposal, and even if she can't beat Kyogre in base, she can use the Ignite Module to turn the tide of battle.
 
Kyogre does have wincons, though it doesn't include Sheer Cold. Tsubasa has ranged attacks and even an AOE move, so she doesn't exactly have a range disadvantage, but she does prefer CQC more from what I've seen. Kyogre can use Calm Mind and status moves, and it sure loves spamming stuff like Origin Pulse, Thunder, and Ice Beam. It might try physical attacks, too, but not often in-character.

I'm not gonna say who I'd vote for yet since I'm the maker of this thread, though. I'll wait for more input.
 
I mean I'm still voting for Tsubasa myself. Tsubasa has the advantage of not being a Pokémon with any particular type weaknesses, meanwhile Tsubasa does have electric based attacks, like the spammable Azure Flash, or she could stop its movements with Shadow Weaving. If Kyogre were to break out, she could aim One Thousand Tears at its shadow to pin it down further. And again all of this is amplified further by Ignite if need be. So seeing as Tsubasa's dealt with potential planet-busters in the past and held her own, I can see her taking Kyogre down with mid to high difficulty.
 
Gojira1234 said:
I mean I'm still voting for Tsubasa myself. Tsubasa has the advantage of not being a Pokémon with any particular type weaknesses, meanwhile Tsubasa does have electric based attacks, like the spammable Azure Flash, or she could stop its movements with Shadow Weaving. If Kyogre were to break out, she could aim One Thousand Tears at its shadow to pin it down further. And again all of this is amplified further by Ignite if need be. So seeing as Tsubasa's dealt with potential planet-busters in the past and held her own, I can see her taking Kyogre down with mid to high difficulty.
Click to expand...
I can agreed with that. I do want to let the Pokemon supporters have their turn as well, though.
 
Kyogre has an AP/dura advantage of around 1.6x against Tsubasa's base, while Tsubasa has around a 2x speed advantage (much much faster than 53%c vs much much faster than ftl) but if she uses ignite module (she probably will considering the urgency of the world flooding situation) she'll be ahead in both, since when using it the gears can oneshot people who they could barely injure normally and are significantly faster. With calm mind and scary face, Kyogre might be able to even it back up in AP and speed, but not durability. It will also be in big trouble if it goes for physical moves in this case.

X-drive won't come into play unless a bunch of people nearby spontaneously start singing, but matches really should either be with or without it.

Kyogre has a very good range advantage, which it will use, but not abuse, and it has air superiority (though Tsubasa can still jump high enough to hit it). Shadow weaving will come in handy here to at least keep it still for her attacks.

Kyogre has more options for status effect inducement with Thunder, waterpulse, muddy water, and body slam, though they aren't guaranteed to go off and body slam in particular will be a bad choice for it.

Kyogre also has AoE with muddy water , explosions from its attacks, and all of the ridiculous weather phenomena it causes, which will be very useful when Tsubasa has the speed advantage.

Lastly, Tsubasa's gonna be on a constant time limit, or the battlefield (and planet) will completely flood and she'll probably drown.

Overall: Tsubasa will be at a big disadvantage early on, but I believe she'll eventually win, since Kyogre's unlikely to kite and I believe that before the place is completely flooded and before Kyogre can kill either Tsubasa will get in close or Kyogre will use some sort of close range attack which will give her the chance to overpower it and win.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
Kyogre has an AP/dura advantage of around 1.6x against Tsubasa's base, while Tsubasa has around a 2x speed advantage (much much faster than 53%c vs much much faster than ftl) but if she uses ignite module (she probably will considering the urgency of the world flooding situation) she'll be ahead in both, since when using it the gears can oneshot people who they could barely injure normally and are significantly faster. With calm mind and scary face, Kyogre might be able to even it back up in AP and speed, but not durability. It will also be in big trouble if it goes for physical moves in this case.

X-drive won't come into play unless a bunch of people nearby spontaneously start singing, but matches really should either be with or without it.

Kyogre has a very good range advantage, which it will use, but not abuse, and it has air superiority (though Tsubasa can still jump high enough to hit it). Shadow weaving will come in handy here to at least keep it still for her attacks.

Kyogre has more options for status effect inducement with Thunder, waterpulse, muddy water, and body slam, though they aren't guaranteed to go off and body slam in particular will be a bad choice for it.

Kyogre also has AoE with muddy water , explosions from its attacks, and all of the ridiculous weather phenomena it causes, which will be very useful when Tsubasa has the speed advantage.

Lastly, Tsubasa's gonna be on a constant time limit, or the battlefield (and planet) will completely flood and she'll probably drown.

Overall: Tsubasa will be at a big disadvantage early on, but I believe she'll eventually win, since Kyogre's unlikely to kite and I believe that before the place is completely flooded and before Kyogre can kill either Tsubasa will get in close or Kyogre will use some sort of close range attack which will give her the chance to overpower it and win.
Click to expand...
Speed IS equalized, but Ignite Module can change that. Tsubasa should have better reaction speed, though, so your argument is still relatively intact.

Also, Tsubasa can change up the size and shape of her swords to adapt to different situations as well.
 
Didn't see that.

I also forgot to say that Tsubasa's spawning if large swords will probably be good for defending against Kyogre's ranged attacks to close the distance.

Even without the initial speed advantage I still vote Tsubasa.
 
I do like how you're able to make a good case for Kyogre's chances as well here. Good job, anyways.

I do also want Cal and Weekly's input for this, though, if possible.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Bare in mind that her fire attacks are completely negated.
Click to expand...
We never said anything about her using fire attacks, she's not that stupid to use that in rain, much less heavy rain xD

Also, she has electric attacks, and considering Kyogre's water control also consists of using saltwater, which is conductive....
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Kyogre starts in the air, though, so conductivity is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
True. Doesn't really save Kyogre, though, as Tsubasa can just use AOE attack.
 
Update, video of music is now blocked, so I had to make link to the intended "battlefield" music :P
 
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