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NGNL - Tet and Jibril Revision

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Jibril speed revision: Infinite (from Volume 8 )

"In short, if she killed the one that caused her embarrassment, everything would be solved. After deciding that by herself, Jibril spread her wings and increased the revolutions of her halo. ÔöÇÔöÇTeleportation.

Twisting space to connect two different spatial coordinates. Something like to moving with infinite speed. But, in principle, it is still movement

"ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇhya?!" If there is a barrier in between… this happens.

What caused her to scream in a such dumb voice, so different from her normal one, was an accidental collision. Moving with something similar to infinite speed, Jibril hit something where there seemed to be nothing but empty space. There was even the sound of an explosion, and Jibril was stuck in midair like a frog. Then, just like that, she started to slide down. Finally, as if she was getting peeled off of something, she finally fell to the ground.

"…Fu fufu… To surround me with a spatial rupture… fu fufufu"

With a large bump on her head, now wide awake, Jibril…. laughed.

Something so powerful that she didn't notice it even with her Flūgel senses. She understands now, both this spiral land, and the rupture powerful enough to inhibit teleportation."


It's not your normal Teleportation since she basically moves at infinite speed making it seems Teleportation to external eyes.

Now we can go with Tet. Volume 8 says Old Deus live in a Multidimensional space-time:

ÔöÇÔöÇ Sora and Shiro kept rattling on and on.

An Old Deus can communicate without needing a language, they also exist in a multi-dimensional space-time, and yet:

"... Why! Holou is a multi-dimensional entity! Why can't Holou extract a single meaning from that….!" Holou finally complained with teary eyes.

Jibril answered in Sora and Shiro's place:

"It's only natural that a God's (lol) understanding can't reach my Masters' deep designsÔÖ¬" She said, wriggling.


In Volume 9 Prologue Sora asked Holou how many dimensions:


"After becoming' a top idol, they could be called a perfect idol, but what is that!?

"What we are aiming for is someone with the unrealistic ideal of 2D, and 3D's sense of existence: that they are not made up and alive!! Combining these two is not 2.5D ÔöÇ it's not 3.5D or 4.0D either ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇ uhmm?" Sora spoke passionately, but he suddenly stopped, turned towards Holou and asked:

"Holou, you said that you were a multi-dimensional intelligence, right? How many dimensions?"

"I-it depends on the definition,
but I hypothesize Quintessences are on a 13+iR variable coordinate systeÔöÇÔöÇ"

"That's it! It's already beyond 11 dimensions, an Idol literally in a different dimension!"

In their previous world, it was a concept that even the newest physics theories didn't entertain, mere references tha
t were mostly ignored!

Sora kept yelling bravely about that noble idealÔöÇÔöÇ!!"


This is further confirmed by Ex Machina talking about Artosh Quintessence (Volume 9, Chapter 4 )

"That tautology is what being a 'god' means, what a 'Quintessence' really is. In that case, in front of the concept that is said to be the strongest ÔöÇÔöÇ your level of power doesn't matter at all.


The Ex-Machina can adapt infinitely over and over and become infinitely strong… however, they can never reach someone who is the strongest relative to everyone else. Even if they can adapt infinitely, transcending the concept said to be the strongest… transcending the absolutely strongest is theoretically impossible.

"Therefore, while he was on a higher dimension… we only destroyed the Quintessence that physically existed ÔöÇÔöÇ However."

By doing that the manifestation of Artosh's concept would temporarily stop ÔöÇÔöÇ The Ex-Machina presumed that deactivation was possible, however:

"Why were we able to match even him? That is 'unknown'... surpassing him in power is supposed to be impossible"

ÔöÇÔöÇ Then, how did the Ex-Machina manage to destroy the god of war's Quintessence?"



This confirms Tet being, "at least", 11-D.


Let's discuss!
 
Is this a series which presents higher dimensions in a qualitatively superior manner to lower ones, or for which infinite speed would be consistent?
 
Antvasima said:
Is this a series which presents higher dimensions in a qualitatively superior manner to lower ones, or for which infinite speed would be consistent?
Idk what you mean by that, but it was stated that Ex Machina infinitely adapt themselves at infinite speed, through logical and illogical calculations and still weren't enough to kill Artosh Quintessence (only the phisical one) while the he resided on a higher dimension. Series relies a lot about concepts and abstract math. Jibril was able to solo a Dragonia and a Phantasma (race 2nd only to the Old Deus) for example. Old Deus are concepts. Tet page was updated a month ago if you wanna check it out. What are Phantasmas

"Being the 2nd of Exceed, the Phantasma are the highest ranked race second only to almighty Old Deus. Transcended over the Elemental which form the entire Disboard, the Phantasma are entities that can appear as life forms or natural phenomenons as they are independent from Disboard's ecosystem. To further express their transcendence, the physical body of each Phantasma can be considered as an entirely different world despite still being located in the planet themselves."

As you can see it's all about concepts. The strongest a concept is the strongest the power become. Idk if i replied to your question :)
 
I mean that not all verses treat higher-dimensional characters as completely superior to lower-dimensional characters, and I am uncertain regarding the context for infinite speed here.
 
Antvasima said:
I mean that not all verses treat higher-dimensional characters as completely superior to lower-dimensional characters, and I am uncertain regarding the context for infinite speed here.
Well in all honestly I'm more sure of Jibril infinite speed than 11-D. It's basically Teleportation and Jibril already shown feats lile entering dimensions or speed blitzing dimensional travel (fight with Shuvi). Jibril was created at the peak of Artosh power so she is insanely strong. I can totally see it since infinite speed (calculations, teleportation etc...) is a recurring concept in the novel. We are talking about a novel where Shiro, 11 year old or so, can calculate 10^120 chess combinations with her brain and no superpower lol. Jibril soloed the three strongest races in Disboard so, imo it's safer Jibril teleportation speed/combat rather than 11-D sheer statements
 
Antvasima said:
I mean that not all verses treat higher-dimensional characters as completely superior to lower-dimensional characters, and I am uncertain regarding the context for infinite speed here.
It is literally stated in the OP that despite being infinitely strong, one cannot hope to defeat a higher dimensional being, this is as straight forward as it can get in fiction.

Also it is mentioned in the LN that through sheer number flugels have a chance at fighting an old deus, so infinite speed makes sense.
 
Okay. I suppose that it seems fine then.
 
Jibril has a statement of tanking an attack that "Can alter the shape of stars", any dura upgrade? Iirc she was killed by a hypernova in the shiritori game.
 
Maybe "Possibly Dwarf Star level" if it does not actually detonate the entirety of the stars? It would still be guesswork though, so it is likely inappropriate.
 
-BANLK- said:
Jibril has a statement of tanking an attack that "Can alter the shape of stars", any dura upgrade? Iirc she was killed by a hypernova in the shiritori game.
In which Volume? By the way dwarf star level or large planet level.
 
So can somebody summarise the changes that need to be performed here?
 
Antvasima said:
So can somebody summarise the changes that need to be performed here?
Jibril infinite speed and dwarf star level durability... (I'd wait for Tet, maybe more info will be released in the other two volumes)
 
What about the higher-dimensional parts?
 
I would wait for more people to discuss it better (maybe I can remake a thread about it in the future, if new volumes explain it better)
 
Twisting space to connect two different spatial coordinates. Something like to moving with infinite speed.

Isn't that just a Spatial Manipulation's application? Can Jibril do so via sheer speed?

As for the higher-dimensional existence evidence, are higher-dimensional characters shown to be stronger than lower-dimensional ones?
 
Sorry for the late reply. Here are my two cents.

Infinite speed should be fine.

As for higher-dimensional... controversial opinion, but I agree. It straight-up says infinitely powerful characters still cannot surpass higher-dimensional.

And given the sheer gap in power between each race, I definitely agree.
 
Being beyond 11D would mean a 1-B rating, yes.

Is somebody experienced willing to apply these changes?
 
Kuroiha said:
Sorry for the late reply. Here are my two cents.

Infinite speed should be fine.

As for higher-dimensional... controversial opinion, but I agree. It straight-up says infinitely powerful characters still cannot surpass higher-dimensional.

And given the sheer gap in power between each race, I definitely agree.
Thanks for the opinion. Also BANLK proposed Durability upgrade.
 
Jibril's AP should also match her durability, we know for a fact that attacks in NGNL are condensed and does not have a high area of effect (Unless the user wants it, I guess). We should also add "likely much higher" to her profile for 2 reasons.

1) Since it is stated that a large number of Flugels have a chance at fighting the Old Deus (I don't know how, probably some prep, suicide attack, backing of their father/god like some good ol father son kamehameha........).

2) Jibril is special, she can fight a Phantasma, which are like literal worlds.
 
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