[No Game No Life] Jibril's hax

[Tsavorae]

I forgot sorry, you can find it here.

 

[Lynieryz]

Well, not exactly. Ja La Anse isn't an always active spell that can continuously output effects and constantly disrupt all magic.

Ja La Anse is just a temporary spirit eraser, once cast, it cannot be reused:

So while it removes spirits initially, the space will fill back up over time as spirits distributed from the Circuits on the atmosphere drawn into surrounding area.

Makes sense, where does the thing about Flügels being able to use the Earth's core come from? I vaguely remember this being a thing but my memory is weak about it.

 

[Tsavorae]

I mean, she doesn't tap directly into the planet's core but she's got her own spirit circuits that connect her to the planet core's circuits. All the spirits scattered across the surface of the planet, in the surrounding areas, it's all coming from the source, which is, the planet's core itself. And the spirits from this core get spread outwards through circuits that go around and orbit the planet and bring it all up to the surface. If you read Volume 6, which is about the Great War, you'll know about the nature and essence of spirits and spirit circuits.

 

[Lynieryz]

I mean, she doesn't tap directly into the planet's core but she's got her own spirit circuits that connect her to the planet core's circuits. All the spirits scattered across the surface of the planet, in the surrounding areas, it's all coming from the source, which is, the planet's core itself. And the spirits from this core get spread outwards through circuits that go around and orbit the planet and bring it all up to the surface. If you read Volume 6, which is about the Great War, you'll know about the nature and essence of spirits and spirit circuits.

I just checked and where are you getting that Jibril has access to the core? It took Artosh and thousands more to access the magic of the core.

And the rest of what you said applies to basically everyone who was nullified by Ja La Anse.

 

[Tsavorae]

I've explained this multiple times and you're still dont get it huh?

Spirits are the energy required to produce phenomena of magic. In most fiction, it's similar to mana or just spirits. Spirit Circuits are the source of all existing spirits, it must be remembered that Spirits are not unlimited. All spirits originate from the planet's core, which are distributed outside of the core through circular orbiting Circuits installed around the planet. As spirits have been a fundamental energy with sentiment since the beginning, this is why they are classified as Elementals race and included in Ixseeds.

In Disboard, races below rank 6 in Ixseeds are categorized as Living Beings because they are born through physical reproduction like generally. In contrast, ranks 6 and above are categorized as Living Things or Life, as these races exist differently from Living Beings by being formed from metaphysical and abstract elements like energy, ideas, concepts, etc. For example, Jibril, overall as a being she is a magical being, her body is fully composed of Spirits. And she is a magic woven by Artosh, she has a core that forms the foundation of her existence, similar to ranks above her that have intrinsic cores of existence; Ether (Old Deus), Core (Phantasma), Core of the Planet (Elemental/Spirit Circuits), Present Version of itself (Dragonia), and so on. And all ranks 6 and above seem to have their own Spirit Circuits. Such as Jibril who has Spirit Circuits concentrated in her wings, this is why she has a very large supply of spirits to perform powerful magic as seen in the anime, when in the Shiritori game, when Sora erased Spirit Circuits from existence, it also erased Jibril's, and the result was she couldn't utilize magic because the source of her power (spirits) which were the Spirit Circuits had been erased from existence, so there were no more spirits emerging except those floating in nature, but since she herself is a magical being composed directly of Spirits she could utilize minimum magic using the spirits in her body as demonstrated in Volume 2, yeah. Races below rank 6 don't have their own spirit circuits like Jibril, but they have a kind of pseudo nerve that can connect to the Elemental Gallery/Spirit Corridor, as an example, Ex-Machina.

All Living Things and Beings with affinity for magic surely require Spirits to realize their magical needs. Since, naturally, all Spirits originate from the planet's core which is the core of existing spirit circuits and Spirits are the highest power in the verse, thus many desire its core to become the One True God.

To answer your question: the source of power for those with an affinity for magic comes from Spirits. They can utilize the Spirits that are naturally spread around and nearby them. As I mentioned before, Spirits originate from the Spirit Circuits. In the case of Jibril and higher ranks, they aren't just able to manipulate or use the Spirits spread throughout nature—they also have their own Spirit supply directly connected to the planet's Spirit Circuits since they have Circuits of their own.

However, sometimes after using a big attack, it seems to weaken them severely or even kill them. Like Jibril, she can unleash an immense magical power that even consumes the Spirits in her body just to use her final attack, Heavenly Smite. As a result, her body shrinks down to the size of a toddler.

So when Ja La Anse gets cast, it's gonna explode the spirits that are the source of magic realization in its range. It doesn't directly impact the Spirit Circuits or the planet's core itself, cause if it did, then the Great War would be over since there'd be no more magic warfare. So for anyone temporarily doing magic, it'll cancel out because the needed energy got erased by Ja La Anse, but even so, it's only temporary. Cause after getting cast, Ja La Anse will stop functioning, so the spirits will refill in nature and the mages can reactivate magic.

 

[Lynieryz]

I've explained this multiple times and you're still dont get it huh?

Spirits are the energy required to produce phenomena of magic. In most fiction, it's similar to mana or just spirits. Spirit Circuits are the source of all existing spirits, it must be remembered that Spirits are not unlimited. All spirits originate from the planet's core, which are distributed outside of the core through circular orbiting Circuits installed around the planet. As spirits have been a fundamental energy with sentiment since the beginning, this is why they are classified as Elementals race and included in Ixseeds.

In Disboard, races below rank 6 in Ixseeds are categorized as Living Beings because they are born through physical reproduction like generally. In contrast, ranks 6 and above are categorized as Living Things or Life, as these races exist differently from Living Beings by being formed from metaphysical and abstract elements like energy, ideas, concepts, etc. For example, Jibril, overall as a being she is a magical being, her body is fully composed of Spirits. And she is a magic woven by Artosh, she has a core that forms the foundation of her existence, similar to ranks above her that have intrinsic cores of existence; Ether (Old Deus), Core (Phantasma), Core of the Planet (Elemental/Spirit Circuits), Present Version of itself (Dragonia), and so on. And all ranks 6 and above seem to have their own Spirit Circuits. Such as Jibril who has Spirit Circuits concentrated in her wings, this is why she has a very large supply of spirits to perform powerful magic as seen in the anime, when in the Shiritori game, when Sora erased Spirit Circuits from existence, it also erased Jibril's, and the result was she couldn't utilize magic because the source of her power (spirits) which were the Spirit Circuits had been erased from existence, so there were no more spirits emerging except those floating in nature, but since she herself is a magical being composed directly of Spirits she could utilize minimum magic using the spirits in her body as demonstrated in Volume 2, yeah. Races below rank 6 don't have their own spirit circuits like Jibril, but they have a kind of pseudo nerve that can connect to the Elemental Gallery/Spirit Corridor, as an example, Ex-Machina.

All Living Things and Beings with affinity for magic surely require Spirits to realize their magical needs. Since, naturally, all Spirits originate from the planet's core which is the core of existing spirit circuits and Spirits are the highest power in the verse, thus many desire its core to become the One True God.

To answer your question: the source of power for those with an affinity for magic comes from Spirits. They can utilize the Spirits that are naturally spread around and nearby them. As I mentioned before, Spirits originate from the Spirit Circuits. In the case of Jibril and higher ranks, they aren't just able to manipulate or use the Spirits spread throughout nature—they also have their own Spirit supply directly connected to the planet's Spirit Circuits since they have Circuits of their own.

However, sometimes after using a big attack, it seems to weaken them severely or even kill them. Like Jibril, she can unleash an immense magical power that even consumes the Spirits in her body just to use her final attack, Heavenly Smite. As a result, her body shrinks down to the size of a toddler.

So when Ja La Anse gets cast, it's gonna explode the spirits that are the source of magic realization in its range. It doesn't directly impact the Spirit Circuits or the planet's core itself, cause if it did, then the Great War would be over since there'd be no more magic warfare. So for anyone temporarily doing magic, it'll cancel out because the needed energy got erased by Ja La Anse, but even so, it's only temporary. Cause after getting cast, Ja La Anse will stop functioning, so the spirits will refill in nature and the mages can reactivate magic.

This doesn't make any sense, if this were the case Jibril's flight capacity would not be nullified, can you post scans of what you are saying?

 

[Tsavorae]

Seriously, again?

As I said before, Ja La Anse is a type of magic that explodes the source of magic (spirits) within a certain area or range. It explodes the spirits (power) so that magic cannot be used. To use an analogy, imagine there was a pool filled with water, and inside there were people happily playing in the water. In this case, the water could represent spirits and the people playing in the pool are individuals who have an affinity for magic or manipulate the spirits to perform magic. However, when the water is drained (spirits are destroyed) instantly, the individuals inside can no longer play with the water (cannot use magic anymore). In Jibril's case, she is among the individuals (is within attack range), but the draining was not permanent, it was only temporary. Over time, the pool would refill through water channels near the pool and people could play in the pool again. In other words, the water channels here represent the planet's spirit circuits, and the spirit circuits refill the spirits back into the world. Essentially, logically, which is why the erasure of spirits from existence was described as temporary and not permanent, as I have explained repeatedly.

Welp, I'm gonna tap out of this conversation for now, even tho im trying to have a reasonable discussion here but it feels like you keep shooting down everything I say just because you're just stuck going around in circles with your own skepticism, outright rejecting anything that doesn't 100% align with your own views. While I've been trying to explain stuff to you and give references to back it up too that wouldn't just be completely arbitrarily thoughts, they'd be supported by the very clear context that was presented, but you just keep stubbornly sticking to your skeptical stance and refusing to agree because it doesn't make sense to you personally. Even when I point out where the lack of sense is coming from, you still deny it wanting it to be how you want.

 

[Lynieryz]

Seriously, again?

As I said before, Ja La Anse is a type of magic that explodes the source of magic (spirits) within a certain area or range. It explodes the spirits (power) so that magic cannot be used. To use an analogy, imagine there was a pool filled with water, and inside there were people happily playing in the water. In this case, the water could represent spirits and the people playing in the pool are individuals who have an affinity for magic or manipulate the spirits to perform magic. However, when the water is drained (spirits are destroyed) instantly, the individuals inside can no longer play with the water (cannot use magic anymore). In Jibril's case, she is among the individuals (is within attack range), but the draining was not permanent, it was only temporary. Over time, the pool would refill through water channels near the pool and people could play in the pool again. In other words, the water channels here represent the planet's spirit circuits, and the spirit circuits refill the spirits back into the world. Essentially, logically, which is why the erasure of spirits from existence was described as temporary and not permanent, as I have explained repeatedly.

Welp, I'm gonna tap out of this conversation for now, even tho im trying to have a reasonable discussion here but it feels like you keep shooting down everything I say just because you're just stuck going around in circles with your own skepticism, outright rejecting anything that doesn't 100% align with your own views. While I've been trying to explain stuff to you and give references to back it up too that wouldn't just be completely arbitrarily thoughts, they'd be supported by the very clear context that was presented, but you just keep stubbornly sticking to your skeptical stance and refusing to agree because it doesn't make sense to you personally. Even when I point out where the lack of sense is coming from, you still deny it wanting it to be how you want.

This is contradictory -_- the time it took Jibril to destroy everything was less than her fall, by that logic she would have regained her ability to fly before falling to the ground, you're not thinking about the details of what you're saying and when I point out a detail that you're ignoring, I have to repeat it about three times until you understand or say it in the most literal way possible.

 

[Tsavorae]

No, it's you who are trying to make it a contradiction by ignoring the working mechanisms of power because you want her resistance to be possible, in which I was logically trying to explain without leading it in that direction by explaining the mechanisms of the power system here.

The very foundation of power was blown up and erased from existence and it was highly unlikely that anyone would be able to use any power, with Jibril as an exception, which has been a contradiction at first place, as Jibril is a magical life form and her body is 100% made up of Spirits, then why didn't she explode due to the massacre of Spirits by Ja La Anse? Can you explain this? I don't think you can. And here I am, as I said before, that only implies that the massacre of Spirits is only in specific places (As stated in the scan), i.e. Shinku and Loni's battle arena, and the sky to bring down the Dwarves' fleet.

You are only fixated on details that are even unknown due to the absence of the narrative, making it seem as if my previous statement was wrong and getting me wrong, while the points you provided did not make any sense at all.

 

[Lynieryz]

No, it's you who are trying to make it a contradiction by ignoring the working mechanisms of power because you want her resistance to be possible, in which I was logically trying to explain without leading it in that direction by explaining the mechanisms of the power system here.

The very foundation of power was blown up and erased from existence and it was highly unlikely that anyone would be able to use any power, with Jibril as an exception, which has been a contradiction at first place, as Jibril is a magical life form and her body is 100% made up of Spirits, then why didn't she explode due to the massacre of Spirits by Ja La Anse? Can you explain this? I don't think you can. And here I am, as I said before, that only implies that the massacre of Spirits is only in specific places (As stated in the scan), i.e. Shinku and Loni's battle arena, and the sky to bring down the Dwarves' fleet.

You are only fixated on details that are even unknown due to the absence of the narrative, making it seem as if my previous statement was wrong and getting me wrong, while the points you provided did not make any sense at all.

You're forgetting details again, stop treating me like a crazy person just for saying something you don't like, Ja La Anse doesn't erase the existence of magical forms of life, Think had to leave an Ag Ni Anse prepared to erase Lóni's Spirit Arms and then Lóni's own existence.

And you didn't respond to my previous comment, What you're saying doesn't work because Jibril spent more time falling than destroying everything and what you're saying would mean that Jibril spends more mana to fly than to use a Heaven's Strike and we know that this is not true.[This comment is about the magic recovery rate even if Heaven's Strike cost more it would mean that the cost to fly is very close to the cost of a Heaven's Strike because she spent more time recovering magic during the fall and even then it wasn't enough to be able to fly again, and that doesn't work because we know that even a casual Heaven's Strike costs much more than anything she has]

 

[Tsavorae]

Treating you as a crazy person huh? Aren't we just having a debate here, with differing perspectives? That's all part of the process of arguing points and trying to reach a conclusion. I understand we disagree on certain aspects, but our goal should be a reasoned discussion that might help both of us gain a clearer understanding, we're just having a conversation, basically.

In this, your argument only focuses on the time interval between Ja La Anse's release and when Jibril could use magic again. But as I've said, we lack the necessary context in the narrative to know for certain. And this is basically, you're arguing over something that isn't even clearly stated, and insisting on something being known when in fact it is unknown, that's illogical.

And moreover, stating that Ja La Anse couldn't erase magical beings isn't substantiated textually or contextually. There is no proof of that. If you believe it so, then please elaborate further. The Ja La Anse is one of the Spirit-Breaking Rites developed by Shinku, and as its name implies, it's to destroy Spirits. This one is also used to capture a Phantasma and extract its core.

I know I skipped some of your questions, but I figure I don't need to answer them because like I already said, you're just repeating your stance, repeating your viewpoint. If the question you meant was about the Old Deus starting the Great War to access the planet's core, then that ain't correct. The Old Deus fought because they wanted to establish their own Suniaster by absorbing other Gods' ethers, the idea of accessing the planet's core wasn't in their minds and their motivation. But their goal of becoming the last one standing never panned out since every time an Old God got erased from existence after being absorbed, they'd come back over time. The idea to access the Spirit Circuits actually came from Schwi, she and Riku controlled other races, got them to gather in one spot and forced them to launch attacks that would then be replicated by Machina's armament and pointed at the planet's core where the core of Spirit Circuits is, and then manifesting the Suniaster.

Okay, where'd you even get the idea that I said Jibril needed enough mana to fly? You're making things up too much and making it seem like I'm wrong because you just misinterpret or misunderstood what I said.

To make it clear, Jibril came within range of Ja La Anse's attack when shes flying through the sky, and the effects lasted until she fell. But after the effects stopped, she then launched her attack. That's all. I didn't say she needed much time to get spirits back, what I meant is, the spirits spirits refilled in nature after the massacre. And, obviously, Jibril wouldn't need to wait gathering spirits around her as she has her own power source, that is, Spirit Circuits. It's really that simple!

 

[Lynieryz]

My god, everything I say is misunderstood, you don't understand anything I say, it's very frustrating.

 

[Tsavorae]

Kekw, it's really been frustrating me too. Let's just end this debate for now and hear what others have to say.

 

[Lynieryz]

And moreover, stating that Ja La Anse couldn't erase magical beings isn't substantiated textually or contextually. There is no proof of that. If you believe it so, then please elaborate further. The Ja La Anse is one of the Spirit-Breaking Rites developed by Shinku, and as its name implies, it's to destroy Spirits. This one is also used to capture a Phantasma and extract its core.

Ja La Anse doesn't erase the existence of magical forms of life, THINK HAD TO LEAVE An Ag Ni Anse PREPARED TO ERASE LÓNI'S SPIRIT ARMS AND THEN LÓNI'S OWN EXISTENCE.

My God, debating with you is sad, why don't you understand anything?

Think had to use a specific spell[Ag Ni Anse] to erase the existence of the Spirit Arms and the existence of Lóni if Ja La Anse erased the existence she would not need to use a spell just for that.

 

[Tsavorae]

My God, debating with you is sad, why don't you understand anything?

Think had to use a specific spell[Ag Ni Anse] to erase the existence of the Spirit Arms and the existence of Lóni if Ja La Anse erased the existence she would not need to use a spell just for that.

I won't answer it because you misunderstood it, you should re-read my previous replies.

 

[Lynieryz]

Okay, where'd you even get the idea that I said Jibril needed enough mana to fly? You're making things up too much and making it seem like I'm wrong because you just misinterpret or misunderstood what I said.

My god man, I never said you said that, I said that in your logic you would have to consider: TEXT I SENT.

To make it clear, Jibril came within range of Ja La Anse's attack when shes flying through the sky, and the effects lasted until she fell. But after the effects stopped, she then launched her attack. That's all. I didn't say she needed much time to get spirits back, what I meant is, the spirits spirits refilled in nature after the massacre. And, obviously, Jibril wouldn't need to wait gathering spirits around her as she has her own power source, that is, Spirit Circuits. It's really that simple!

This doesn't answer or talk about what I said

Come on, I'll try to be as explanatory as possible.

Jibril is Flying

Jibril flight was deactivated

From the moment Ja La Anse was activated until the fall of Jibril, the entire Think vs Lóni "battle" was going on

The time that Jibril was falling was long[Let's assume 10 minutes, it's just a figurative value for you to understand]

Jibril fell and destroyed everything[Let's assume 2 minutes, it's just a figurative value for you to understand]

In those 10 minutes that Jibril was falling, she recovered more magic than in the 2 minutes it took her to destroy everything.

And in those 2 minutes she used a Heaven's Strike.

This doesn't work because with the magic she recovered in those 10 minutes she should have had enough magic to fly again before falling to the ground because 2 minutes later she managed to use a Heaven's Strike and we know that a Heaven's Strike costs a lot more mana than any other spell Jibril has.

 

[Lynieryz]

I won't answer it because you misunderstood it, you should re-read my previous replies.

Please always say what I didn't understand because I can't read your mind and it's very clear that our biggest problem is communication.

 

[Tsavorae]

What I'm trying to say is, using arguments that rely on speculative about time intervals or timeframes isn't very helpful. It just leads to contradictions, as in this debate. That's because the timing isn't made totally clear in the narrative text, can't really define the timeframe in the narrative since the context is constantly shifting around. It's really hard to definitively conclude anything for sure, hard to pin down exactly when things are happening based on the information given. The only way we're going to figure this out is by arguing action-by-action and describing the context for each thing that happens in the novel.

Therefore, making assumptions based on the info we do have is pretty much the best we can do at this point. We shouldn't have to go on to that speculate so much. But it seems like you just wanna know something that is unknown from the beginning, whereas, I really was just stating what is implicitly there based on what's available but you didn't seem to want to accept that.

One last time, nobody really knows for sure when the effects of Zia La Anse will off, but it is clearly stated that it's not a spell that never ending. So during the absence of Spirits because of Zia La Anse, it can be thought that Jibril still may not be able to use magic even while on the ground, so basically this is what I was saying when using the analogy of a drained pool, you can read the analogy again which I have provided.

What I meant when I said you misunderstood is that Zia La Anse destroys magical beings. Simply put, ranks 6 and above in Ixseed are filled by magical beings, because fundamentally they only exist as concepts, but there are the Spirits, which are magic itself—that give those concepts forms. Destroying Spirits is essentially the same as destroying magical beings because their composition is the same.

When I said: If Zia La Anse is a Spirit-Breaking spell then why doesn't it destroy Jibril's existence which is also fully of Spirits? This is where the contradiction lies, yeah. I was just pointing this out to avoid further contradictions in our conversation, as well as contradictions like what you stated and debated with me earlier. For Elves and Dwarves are below rank 6, their existence is different than higher ranks. So the massacre of Spirits for them is just a loss of fuels to perform magic, has no impact on their overall being.

 

[Lynieryz]

What I'm trying to say is, using arguments that rely on speculative about time intervals or timeframes isn't very helpful. It just leads to contradictions, as in this debate. That's because the timing isn't made totally clear in the narrative text, can't really define the timeframe in the narrative since the context is constantly shifting around. It's really hard to definitively conclude anything for sure, hard to pin down exactly when things are happening based on the information given. The only way we're going to figure this out is by arguing action-by-action and describing the context for each thing that happens in the novel.

Therefore, making assumptions based on the info we do have is pretty much the best we can do at this point. We shouldn't have to go on to that speculate so much. But it seems like you just wanna know something that is unknown from the beginning, whereas, I really was just stating what is implicitly there based on what's available but you didn't seem to want to accept that.

One last time, nobody really knows for sure when the effects of Zia La Anse will off, but it is clearly stated that it's not a spell that never ending. So during the absence of Spirits because of Zia La Anse, it can be thought that Jibril still may not be able to use magic even while on the ground, so basically this is what I was saying when using the analogy of a drained pool, you can read the analogy again which I have provided.

And that's my point that having resisted powernull is a thousand times more credible than a hypothesis that is completely flawed, Mana recovery is flawed for the reasons I already said.[And Think had to use jewelry that had magic to escape with Nina, so yes, Ja La Anse was active when Jibril used Heaven's Strike]

What I meant when I said you misunderstood is that Zia La Anse destroys magical beings. Simply put, ranks 6 and above in Ixseed are filled by magical beings, because fundamentally they only exist as concepts, but there are the Spirits, which are magic itself—that give those concepts forms. Destroying Spirits is essentially the same as destroying magical beings because their composition is the same.

When I said: If Zia La Anse is a Spirit-Breaking spell then why doesn't it destroy Jibril's existence which is also fully of Spirits? This is where the contradiction lies, yeah. I was just pointing this out to avoid further contradictions in our conversation, as well as contradictions like what you stated and debated with me earlier. For Elves and Dwarves are below rank 6, their existence is different than higher ranks. So the massacre of Spirits for them is just a loss of fuels to perform magic, has no impact on their overall being.

I didn't misunderstand you, that's why I mentioned Lóni's Spirit Arms because if Ja La Anse was able to erase rank 6 and above it would have erased Lóni's Spirit Arms and Lóni's own erasure supports this as Ag Ni Anse can erase Rank 5 and below through the destruction of spirits.

 

[Tsavorae]

And that's my point that having resisted powernull is a thousand times more credible than a hypothesis that is completely flawed, Mana recovery is flawed for the reasons I already said.[And Think had to use jewelry that had magic to escape with Nina, so yes, Ja La Anse was active when Jibril used Heaven's Strike]

And yet this still does not prove you are right, as that argument has been logically debunked by the power mechanics explained in the series. In other words, your point is contradictory.

Jibril should not necessarily have a resistance, as she's still under the effects of nullification when she fell to the ground. We don't know the exact timing between her fall and launching her attack, or precisely when the effects of Zia La Anse ended. The scene cuts from Shinku and Loni's perspective of seeing Jibril fall straight to Shinku being near death or Jibril finishing her attack, without giving us a clear timeframe.

I didn't misunderstand you, that's why I mentioned Lóni's Spirit Arms because if Ja La Anse was able to erase rank 6 and above it would have erased Lóni's Spirit Arms and Lóni's own erasure supports this as Ag Ni Anse can erase Rank 5 and below through the destruction of spirits.

Agni Anse is only an ST spell not an AoE one like Zia La Anse, it specialized in destroying one's spirits. It only removes the target's metaphysical aspect, not their physical one. You bring up a poor comparison here—the higher ranks are purely metaphysical beings, so of course being erased by spirit-breaking rites would make them disappear completely. However, the lower ranks have both physical and metaphysical aspects. So if one aspect is erased, the other remains. If you read volume 12, you would know what losing spirits looks like for lower ranks.

 

[Lynieryz]

And yet this still does not prove you are right, as that argument has been logically debunked by the power mechanics explained in the series. In other words, your point is contradictory.

Jibril should not necessarily have a resistance, as she's still under the effects of nullification when she fell to the ground. We don't know the exact timing between her fall and launching her attack, or precisely when the effects of Zia La Anse ended. The scene cuts from Shinku and Loni's perspective of seeing Jibril fall straight to Shinku being near death or Jibril finishing her attack, without giving us a clear timeframe.



Agni Anse is only an ST spell not an AoE one like Zia La Anse, it specialized in destroying one's spirits. It only removes the target's metaphysical aspect, not their physical one. You bring up a poor comparison here—the higher ranks are purely metaphysical beings, so of course being erased by spirit-breaking rites would make them disappear completely. However, the lower ranks have both physical and metaphysical aspects. So if one aspect is erased, the other remains. If you read volume 12, you would know what losing spirits looks like for lower ranks.

You just ignored the Spirit Arms twice in a row... And what I said was literally about them, you focused on the supporting evidence. Irrelevant because it's STATED that Ag Ni Anse will erase Lóni from existence and this would include both his metaphysical and physical aspects.

 

[Tsavorae]

Oh my goodness, how many times do I have to say it? Your statement is basically saying that Ja La Anse is a spell with an always active effect even after it's dysfunctional, which contradicts the narrative context stating that Ja La Anse will definitely dysfunction along with its effect. You're ignoring crucial statements clearly presented in the narrative and standing on baseless and arbitrary points.

I've said it over and over again that we don't exactly know when the effect will end due to the lack of text stating so in the narrative. That's why I said we should evaluate context-by-context or action-by-action that has been displayed because that's the most reliable and sensible approach. Yet, you insist on rejecting it and continue to maintain that contradiction.

I've made the statement as simple as possible on how that contradiction can be resolved, stating that the spell can be said to have its effect completely disappear since Jibril has already demonstrated her magic, meaning that any magic can be used again.

I've also explained the mechanism of the spell, which is, that it doesn't destroy the "source" of the spirits (the source in question is Spirit Circuits) which would make all the spirits cease to exist. Instead, it only destroys the spirits that are flying in nature within the spell's range.

I'll disregard anything related to Loni and Agni stuff because it has slipped away from the context of what's being questioned.

 

[Lynieryz]

Oh my goodness, how many times do I have to say it? Your statement is basically saying that Ja La Anse is a spell with an always active effect even after it's dysfunctional, which contradicts the narrative context stating that Ja La Anse will definitely dysfunction along with its effect. You're ignoring crucial statements clearly presented in the narrative and standing on baseless and arbitrary points.

I've said it over and over again that we don't exactly know when the effect will end due to the lack of text stating so in the narrative. That's why I said we should evaluate context-by-context or action-by-action that has been displayed because that's the most reliable and sensible approach. Yet, you insist on rejecting it and continue to maintain that contradiction.

I've made the statement as simple as possible on how that contradiction can be resolved, stating that the spell can be said to have its effect completely disappear since Jibril has already demonstrated her magic, meaning that any magic can be used again.

I've also explained the mechanism of the spell, which is, that it doesn't destroy the "source" of the spirits (the source in question is Spirit Circuits) which would make all the spirits cease to exist. Instead, it only destroys the spirits that are flying in nature within the spell's range.

I'll disregard anything related to Loni and Agni stuff because it has slipped away from the context of what's being questioned.

You love to ignore what I say and then cry that you were right about something I had already said.

[And Think had to use jewelry that had magic to escape with Nina, so yes, Ja La Anse was active when Jibril used Heaven's Strike]

---

I'll disregard anything related to Loni and Agni stuff because it has slipped away from the context of what's being questioned.

I will accept your admission of defeat in relation to this, because guess who brought this issue up as an anti-feat for stating that Ja La Anse has to erase the existence of Rank 6 and above and you running away from the subject as soon as I prove that that's not the case.

 

[Tsavorae]

You love to ignore what I say and then cry that you were right about something I had already said

Could you please provide the scan of what you're saying, because I don't see it being quite what you claim that's why I ignore what you said.

 

[Tsavorae]

will accept your admission of defeat in relation to this, because guess who brought this issue up as an anti-feat for stating that Ja La Anse has to erase the existence of Rank 6 and above and you running away from the subject as soon as I prove that that's not the case

The subject you bring up is different from what I meant, as I said before you bring up a bad comparison.

 

[Lynieryz]

Could you please provide the scan of what you're saying, because I don't see it being quite what you claim that's why I ignore what you said.

The extent of the Heavenly Smite unleashed that day reached the battlefield where Think and Lóni fought. Think realized immediately that she needed to drop everything and demi-shift to get to where Nina was. This led to a confrontation with an even younger version of the nightmare from the sky, from which Think and Nina were barely able to escape alive. The gem on Think’s forehead burned out from magic overuse, and she nearly perished by the time they got to Melvoil.

The subject you bring up is different from what I meant, as I said before you bring up a bad comparison.

Of course it's different from what you meant, that's the whole point of what I said to prove with things in the story that there's no way Ja La Anse could have erased Jibril because it's not capable of that.

 

[Confluctor]

Disagree with HDE removal, as others have pointed out. Summoning via Time Travel is fine.

For time stop and Power Null resistance, I am unconvinced by the scans, and my opinion is largely the same as @Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl

 

[Lynieryz]

Disagree with HDE removal, as others have pointed out. Summoning via Time Travel is fine.

For time stop and Power Null resistance, I am unconvinced by the scans, and my opinion is largely the same as @Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl

Powernull makes sense, but why do you disagree with Time Stop? Satanichia never gave a justification regarding Time Stop other than disbelief.

 

[Tsavorae]

It wasnt disbelief, you are just misinterpreted it. The scan clearly talks bout traveling in time, which is, and the time stop is just an effect of moving in different points in time.

 

[Lynieryz]

No, there is a dot, she goes back in time to avoid the draconic language and then stops time to defend herself from the tail attack.

Just as Rafil had predicted—it was possible to dodge the Dragonia’s commands by teleporting through space and time milliseconds after they were spoken. The dragon’s tail was just barely manageable by freezing time in certain spaces. The Dragonia watched Jibril and let out a mighty laugh.
*Temporal and spatial shifting.

 

[Tsavorae]

Nah, obviously, the text after the dot is implying the previous text and is not a new action.

時間を止めた空間を盾にして凌ぎきる。
Use the space where time has stopped as a shield to overcome it.

 

[Lynieryz]

Nah, obviously, the context after the dot is implying the previous context and is not a new action.

Seriously, dude? Either you're being dishonest or pretending to be ignorant. Both fan translations and the official one state that time travel occurred in response to draconic language, and the time stop was in response to the tail attack. While Powernull is understandable because there are thousand details to consider, now it seems like you're intentionally being annoying. It's explicitly mentioned that the character stopped time, and you're inventing things that don't even make sense just to oppose for the sake of it.

 

[Tsavorae]

Meh, I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I'm just trying to evaluate this based on the implied context. And also, just because two translations use the same context and text, it doesn't necessarily mean they are both completely correct.

 

[Lynieryz]

Meh, I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I'm just trying to evaluate this based on the implied context. And also, just because two translations use the same context and text, it doesn't necessarily mean they are both completely correct.

Both translations have notoriety, the official one is obvious why, and the fans' one is literally an absurd dedication, so I'm sorry but I would take either of these two above yours.

And I'm sorry to say but "I'm just trying to evaluate this based on the implied context" literally seems like a joke, the context literally spat in our faces that Jibril stopped time.

 

[Tsavorae]

Mmm, alright. It seems this will just lead to a back and forth debate if we continue. Best we wait for others' inputs and see what their evaluations of this issue are.

 

[Lynieryz]

I'm just going to exchange the scans in the op for the official translation and try to call some mods here.

 

[Lynieryz]

Bump

 

[Lynieryz]

Bump

 

[Lynieryz]

bump

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

looks good