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Speed is Key (DxD High Tier Speed)

RoboVolcano4

RoboVolcano4

66
4
So, from a previous board (https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3153100?useskin=oasis), there was talk about how Vali should be upgraded to moving FTL due to him being far faster than a member of Sairaorg's peerage who was calculated at having subrelativistic speed (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GoodDaySir/Speed_Upgrade). So I think we could discuss it here. A few times in the light novel, Vali is described as moving faster than light by both Issei and Kiba (see first link for quotes).

Now it has been said I the past that these statements are hyperbolic and can't really be taken on seriously. But with an individual who could react to light that is definitely slower than Vali, can we really say that?

Not only that, but Issei in his True DxD form may be just as fast. Recall when he first activated it:

I readied my stance as I faced Rizevim . After preparing my stance, I only took a slight step forward . All of a sudden, I had shortened our distance, and was standing directly in front of Rizevim . That bastard didn't even react . My movements just now were completely beyond his comprehension . -Volume 20, Life 3

Issei states that he took a step and was then in front of Rizeviem, who didn't react because the movement was too fast to comprehend. It could be argued that Rizeviem didn't care but I doubt that he wouldn't move. Rizeviem is a Super Devil, a rank that reaches the top 10 of DxD or more is a class of their own. And while he is not as strong as Sirzechs or Ajuka, he is rather strong and just as fast, much faster than Sairaorg's Bishop.

So, we don't have an exact distance between Issei and Rizeviem but we can guess that he was a few meters away from since he was continuously knocked away and either rolled several times or flew through the air. So let's have a low end of about 5 meters.

The time is the tricky part though. Issei states that he moved his foot and ended in front of Rizevim. So we should figure that out and go from there.
 
The scaling list should be much longer than this, except I'm mistaking something.

If this gets accepted, Vali would be 'Speed of Light' in Balance Breaker, and he has obviously gotten faster as the series has progressed. This is how I would put it:

Speed: Speed of Light (He's stated multiple times to be capable of moving at the speed of light, and is superior to Crocell who can react to light), FTL in later volumes (Superior to his previous state)

CxC Issei should be FTL as he's stated to be faster than Vol 17 BxB Vali by Wukong, and there are others that have kept up with Vali like Euclid. Grendel kept up with CxC Issei and Vol 14 ~ 16 Gremory group can combat Grendel and react to him. The Rizevim scene shouldn't really matter.

Vol 4 Issei caught up to Vali moving at the speed of light, although his parameters were enhanced after the halving statement from Azazel (just like he suddenly got faster against Nyx). At one point, Vali even wondered if Ise became faster than he is. Bikou then intercepted Ise as he was about to attack Vali towards the end, so he should scale.

There's other stuff like Vol 11 Kuroka intercepting Vali's redirected attack (not sure about this one), prime Vasco easily keeping up with EJOD Vali, and a weakened Azazel expressing confidence that he could take on Vali.

I'm not sure how we'll handle this, but at the very least, we should remove the MHS end from the high tiers and others scaling to Sub-Relativistic if we don't get anywhere with this.
 
Rizevim in Volume 18 blitz Issei Balance Breaker

After I bounced on the ground a few times, I got back up, and wore my armour again! Even though I was injured, I flew back, and fired out a beam of demonic energy — but that bastard simply touched it with his hand, and my dragon shot disappeared! As long as it's power is used through a Sacred Gear, even a projectile of demonic energy will be ineffective! After his figure suddenly disappeared, he just as suddenly appeared right in front of me. - Volume 18 Life 4
 
CxC Issei should be FTL as he's stated to be faster than Vol 17 BxB Vali by Wukong

I think he was speaking of CxC Issei and EJOD Vali
 
I think it should go like this: scaling from Boosted Issei should be MSH, scaling from Crocell sould be "at least sub-rela, likely rela", scaling from BxB Vali should be SoL, above Vali would be FTL.
 
He has not always been faster. I will make my own scaling list from the things I remember, so we can start getting somewhere. Some things may look strange, but I'm just doing it based on what's shown or stated. As we dis(agree) on stuff, I'll update the list as the thread goes on.

Sub-Relativistic

Sairaorg - At least Sub-Relativistic (Superior to Crocell, who reacted to light)

Issei (Balance Breaker and Triaina) - At least Sub-Relativistic (Kept up with Sairaorg)

Kiba - At least Sub-Relativistic (Can keep up with Balance Breaker Issei)

Xenovia - At least Sub-Relativistic (Managed to dodge attacks from Sairaorg)

Siegfried - At least Sub-Relativistic (Easily kept up with Kiba and Xenovia simultaneously)
The reason BxB Issei is scaling to Sub-Rel is that I can't seem to remember anything that suggests he should scale to BxB Vali, aside from that moment his stats clearly increased cause of the halving statement from Azazel, which doesn't apply to his normal stats. Before that, Vali was easily superior to him so I think we should not scale him.

Speed of Light

I've mentioned how it'd be for Vali, so moving ahead:

Bikou - Speed of Light (Intercepted Balance Breaker Issei, who had gotten fast enough to catch up with Vali and was about to deal a finishing blow to him)

Kuroka - Speed of Light (Intercepted Balance Breaker Vali's redirected attack), or:

At least Sub-Relativistic (Superior to the likes of Crocell, who reacted to light, and could intercept Balance Breaker Vali's redirected attack), or we merge both to make it:

At least Sub-Relativistic, possibly or likely Speed of Light through the aforementioned reasoning.
FTL

Vali's stronger forms for obvious reasons i.e Juggernaut Drive and the others.

Current Bikou, he has improved from his Vol 4 state.

Cardinal Crimson Issei - FTL (Stated to be faster than Balance Breaker Vali)

Vol 22 BxB Issei dodged a surprise attack from Barakiel, so we can give him "Likely FTL" in later volumes for his current Balance Breaker.

Sairaorg - FTL (Comparable to CxC Issei)

Cao Cao - FTL (Kept up with Issei, Vali, and Azazel)

Although he was also predicting their movements through their aura, if his body can't keep up with his mind, he wouldn't be able to repeatedly keep up with their speed. For example, it's not like just any senjutsu user would be able to replicate his feats even if they can sense aura better than he can.

Euclid - FTL (Kept up with CxC Issei and BxB Vali)

Grendel - FTL (Kept up with CxC Issei and BxB Sairaorg)

Wukong - FTL (Dodged attacks from CxC Issei and BxB Vali, and could easily react to Cao Cao's attack)

Vasco - FTL (Kept up with CxC Issei and the rest of the Gremory group, along with Saji)

Kiba - FTL (Faster than Issei, and could dodge attacks from Grendel)

Xenovia - FTL (Kept up with Vasco, and matched Kiba's speed using Excalibur Rapidly)

Irina (Post Volume 19) - FTL (Kept up with Xenovia and reacted to Grendel's fireball)

Nidhoggr - FTL (Reacted to CxC Issei's assaults)

Dulio - FTL (Kept up with CxC Issei and BxB Vali)

Walburga - FTL (Kept up with Balance Breaker Saji, and successfully reacted to CxC Issei's Crimson Blaster)

Akeno (Post Volume 16) - FTL (Kept up with, and reacted to assaults from Grendel)

Rossweisse - FTL (Kept up with attacks from Grendel and Armaros)

Masaomi - FTL (Kept up with Xenovia and Irina)

Nero - FTL (Kept up with Xenovia)

Yubelluna (Post Volume 19) - FTL (Kept up with a serious Akeno)

Riser (Post Volume 19) - FTL (Superior to Yubelluna)

Vol 19 Triaina Issei kept up with Riser, so it'd apply to him too.

Gasper (Balor) - FTL (Kept up with Walburga and Ouryuu)

Nerfed Fenrir - FTL (Moved too quickly for Gasper Balor to react to)

Arthur - FTL (Kept up with old Vasco while holding back, and is superior to Le Fay, who could keep up with Akeno)

Ruruko (Counter Balance) - FTL (Stated to be faster than CxC Issei, and consistently moved faster than him)
Current Kuroka should scale to Le Fay, which would, in turn, scale to current Shirone. Also, the members of Dulio's team would scale for keeping up with Vol 23 Team Sekiryuutei, which would then scale to Ouryuu and Elmenhilde with the blood of Ise and Ravel.

Cadres should scale to the angels in Dulio's team, meaning Kokabiel also scales. He was shown to be slower than Vali, but more recent feats contradict this. I'd just put it down to one of those Ishibumi powerscaling things, recent powerscaling should supersede powerscaling from the earlier volumes.

Lastly, the Dragon Kings. They would scale to Yasaka, who is superior to other lower youkai like Ura and Ibaraki. Both of them kept up with Rose and Elmenhilde in Shin DxD 2 alongside Akeno. Plus, according to SLASHD├ÿG spoilers, both of them are under Inugami who is apparently comparable to Yasaka. Also, Tannin could easily keep up with Bikou.

I won't bother mentioning Maou-class and God-class, along with the others like the top ten, since their rating is obvious.

If it doesn't work, they'd just be Sub-Relativistic.
 
@BFF

Isn't Traina Issei with Star Sonic/Knight Promotion, speedwise, is on par with Vali?

"As I yelled, various parts of Boosted Gear Scale Mail were shed off! Heavy armour was cast off from the body, arms, legs and helmet! Abandoning all excess baggage, I kept the minimum armour needed to fly! Boosted Gear Scale Mail shaped itself into a set of delicate full body armour. Giving up on defence, the armour was further shaped into a slender form suited for high speed! My wish is god-speed! Speed no one can follow! Enduring the vomiting feeling from the heavy G-forces, I flew through the air with god-speed! This must be how the world is seen by Kiba and Vali. ...Honestly, my body still hasn't adapted to such speed... However, I can still continue!"

So, in term of speed, both Kiba and Vali is superior to BXB Issei. So the scaling for both both early volume of Issei and Kiba should look like this;

Issei: At least Sub- Rel in BxB (could keep up with Sairaorg) and SoL with Star Sonic(Compareable to Vali)

Kiba: At least Sub-Rel. (superior to BxB Issei) SoL in later volume and FTL with Booster(could keep up with PDxD Issei)
 
I remembered that and was about to scale it as such, but I looked at the statement several times and it occurred to me that he could simply be comparing his movements to how Vali normally moves fast in combat, not necessarily that he's equal to his speed, so I didn't suggest light speed to be on the safe side.

Though if we take it literally, it'd mean Kiba is essentially as fast as Vali at that point (since Issei compared his movements to both Vali and Kiba's), making people like Beruka equal to Vali seeing as he kept up with Vol 10 Kiba. Let's see what others think, but I'd personally prefer a direct statement or feat, especially as I find it hard to believe that Beruka is comparable to that version of Vali.
 
GoodDaySir said:
Kiba: At least Sub-Rel. (superior to BxB Issei) SoL in later volume and FTL with Booster(could keep up with PDxD Issei)
Click to expand...
Kiba was much faster than Issei PDxD in True DxD 2 (when he used his Dragon Knights of the Holy Priest). He was at a speed that exceed Issei perception
 
I remember this from Ajuka's page, should we add Resurrection of others with the Evil Pieces to the pages of other Kings? Plus Power Mimicry for vampires since they can replicate the abilities of people after sucking their blood.

I'm also thinking I should add some of Azazel's inventions to his page as Optional Equipment, along with the Typhon armour.

Is that okay?
 
@BFF

Kiba being on par with Vali, in terms of speed, doesnt really make sense considering Kiba is awestruck and all when seeing Vali's speed.

Beruka is a Sairaorg Knight thus making him compareable to Crocell, Kiba can keep up with Beruka, on the other hand BxB Issei can keep up with Base Sairaorg, who is faster then Kiba,

But early Star Sonic Issei is on par with Kiba in terms of speed...

Yeah, I guess putting those bunch in Sub-relativistic tier is the best way to solve this, while omitting the Issei statement where Kiba speed = Vali's Speed.

As for King being able to resurect someone with Evil piece is fair, though certainly not Combat Applicable, as far as I know.

Regarding Azazel, I have no objection.
 
I think we can put it as:

"At least Sub-Relativistic, higher with Welsh Sonic Boost Knight"?

Triaina would scale to Vali in later volumes anyway, as I put in my scaling post.
 
Seems fine to me.

Also while we are at it, Sairaorg can only acces BtB and Balance Breaker with help from his pawn right?

Should we add a note in his page?
 
GoodDaySir said:
Seems fine to me.
Also while we are at it, Sairaorg can only acces BtB and Balance Breaker with help from his pawn right?

Should we add a note in his page?
Click to expand...
Issei needs ddreig for cxc I think, or bxb
 
@BFF you should add link the thread, which proof dxd character being ftl, to be honest the justification is littile bit weird and confusing
 
It's in Vali's page at the bottom and in his edit history. It's not allowed to link threads for justifications, as far as I remember.

(I've adjusted the Balance Breaker justification to make it less confusing by linking directly to Vali's page)
 
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