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High School DxD Low-Balls

Ionliosite

Ionliosite

15,920
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In all honesty, the pages for this verse are extremely filled with low-balls, like the AP of the God Tiers to the speed of most of the verse. So I'm going to point out some of the problems here:

Ophis, Great Red & 666's Tier
The strongest characters of this verse, 666, Great Red and Ophis, are all labeled as Unknown, which makes sense for people like Ophis and Great Red as they don't have any feats at all, but it's simply wrong in 666's case, since:

Stated to be capable of destroying the human world, Underworld - which is the same size as the human world, but with a larger landmass - Heaven, and the various worlds of the mythologies in a battle with Great Red. Far stronger than Scale Mail Loki, whose attack would have recarved and repainted the world map, even when it was compressed. Destroyed the first six levels of Heaven, including Third Heaven, which is said to be so vast that no one knows its end.
~ Trihexa (666)'s profile on this very wiki​
Scale Mail Loki only appears in High School DxD EX, which is canon, given it was written by Ishibumi and the fact it foreshadows future events on the series that were stated there (Xenovia wanting to make a Cram School, Ex's sword being a wedding gift from Heaven, Ajuka being the only original Maou to be active, Sirzechs and Azazel's fate). So here's the original statement regarding Loki:

Loki increases the magic power on his right hand to maximum level as he repeats compressing it and collect heinous amount of aura. The massive amount of aura surges intensely.
I can feel something completely insane since my body trembles violently after I take measure on that mass of aura. Once it is shot, this entire coastal area… no, the world map will be carved and repainted.
~ EX, Chapter 5​
Carving and repainting the world map is indeed a feat someone much weaker than 666 can do. Unless I'm wrong, that is a High 6-A feat, and added to the fact there are also many world destruction statements regarding 666, Great Red and Ophis, and that even a small fraction of Ophis' power is 6-B, having that as their tier wouldn't be an outlier. On the other hand, the Third Heaven has an insane description, because taking it at face value means destroying it is a High 3-A feat, but that'll be an extreme outlier on this verse, so it's better if we just ignore that and say something along the lines of "At least High 6-A, likely far higher" as the tier for these three.

Vali's Speed
Vali Lucifer's speed is listed as "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely Sub-Relativistic". Just a few problems here:

Just like in the legend. The ability of the Sekiryuutei doubles the power of the possessor and can transfer it to others. The ability of the Hakuryuukou takes the power of their opponents and make it theirs. With the remaining wings, Kokabiel tried to go towards the Vanishing-Dragon, Albion. But he couldn't catch him because he wasn't able to keep up with the movements that could be said to be as fast as the speed of light. Then one of the echelons of the fallen-angels who was overwhelming us was being played around with.
~ Volume 3, New Knight & New Rival, Part2​
Kuh! Just imagining it makes me shudder! It's an unforgivable act even for God to halve those fantastic breasts! I caught up with Vali who was moving at the speed of light with no trouble.
~ Volume 4, Life 5, Part 2​
The sound of Hakuryuukou which echoes through the area. At the same time, it feels like Ise-kun's power reduced quite a lot. Vali must have touched Ise-kun in speed of light and activated his ability. It was thought to be impossible before, but because of the music Ise-kun started getting his consciousness back and worked.
~ Volume 6, Juggernaut Drive, Part 2​
While my head gets full with despair, a single light passes through my sight.
It went past the wolf at the speed of light….
[Half Dimension!]
KUBABABABABABAN!
The space distorts while having the Fenrir in the center of it. Fenrir also has his movement sealed by the space distortion.
-But soon it bites and tears apart the distortion made in the space with its fangs.
A white-silver thing descends down between us and the wolf.
"Hyoudou Issei, are you okay?"
"Vali….."
The one that appeared in front of us is the Hakuryuukou Vali!
~ Volume 7, Life 2, Part 4​
All of this was done while on Balance Breaker, and as you can see, Vali moving at the speed of light in said transformation is a consistent statement, being backed up by both Issei and Kiba. If a fodder character from Sairaorg's peerage was calc'd to be between sub-relativistic and relativistic, then I see literally no reason for Vali to not be considered light speed. And of course, this would mean those scaling above Vali would be FTL.

Conclusion
God Tiers like 666, Ophis and Great Red should be High 6-A and those scaling from Balance Breaker Vali should have FTL speed.
 
This verse needs more love. The reasoning behind the upgrades are sound to me and it's not like you're trying to get the God tiers to 3-A or anything. I believe they are reasonable, especially the Vali speed statement. Once or twice could be considered as flowery language, but when he is described as "speed of light" 4 times, I can't see how this shouldn't upgrade his speed to that level. I support it, but you'll probably need to get people from the Knowledgeable Members List and some mods to comment.
 
I do support the speed upgrade, there are so many light speed statements and I can't understand why we don't accept them given the consistency and frequency.

I'm not sure on that statement for Trihexa being High 6-A, I think calc members and staff members should at look at that first.
 
Yeah i agree. The light speed hyperbole should recieve a Medaka Box kind of treatment where "it can only be dismissed as a hyperbole so many times".

About Trihexia again i agree, though they all should have an "at least High 6-A (Stated to be far stronger than Loki.....)". Trihexia destroying heaven especially the 3rd floor, them being called world destroyers etc it all points to this. At least High 6-A for Trihexia, True Ophis and Geat Red seems fine.
 
I agree

Vali is stated to be LS in BxB several times by different characters in 4 volumes. It's not a hyperbole. Crocell is calc to be sub rela (low end) to rela (high end), Vali who is much faster than that definitely could be LS.


For the AP, if Great Red fights 666, they said their fight will the World, and their world is composed of the human world, the underworld (which is planet size), the heaven and other territories of other mythologies. So at least 2 planet. Country level for Dragon God Class doesn't make any sens

Specially when Beelzebub create a dimension as large as Australian continent and an other dimension with 2 moon (maybe an outlier)
 
I think the speed proposal are fine.

I am neutral about the AP as the feat could varied if it can rewrite a world map. I do think there should be inputs given the High 6-A from the calculation group.
 
The destruction statements for the three worlds are repeated and undeniable, yeah. Shiva also has one, but there's still the problem of how long it'd take. If you ask me, not really long, as 666 destroyed the Grigori terrain in an instant - which would be quite huge as the Earth sized Underworld was split into two territories for the devils and the fallen angels - and also the first six levels of Heaven which contains the likely ridiculously large Third Heaven, in less than two days. If we can determine a suitable tier for these, I'm fine with it. We know it's less than two days as it went to the Norse World on the third day of its revival, after destroying the Grigori and most of Heaven.

We've briefly talked about the map changing statement before, but got no concrete answer. I've since reread some volumes, Ise described 666's nerfed bodies nuking islands and mountain ranges in Europe as altering the map.

Sensei generated a small magic circle in his hands, and projected the recorded video out. Everyone was left speechless—. The Trihexa which appeared near the coastline of Japan spat out a massive fireball beyond one's imagination, and destroyed an entire island. The Trihexa which appeared in Europe also blew away the mountains, lakes and forests with its breath of fire—. …It was mass destruction on a level which would change the world map. As the video continued, the fighter jets, and warships of various countries were shown confronting Trihexa…but they were ruthlessly crashed or sunk by the armies of fake Sekiryuutei and Evil Dragons….

Although it could be that he's talking about sustained destruction on such a scale, I'm not certain. That said, I believe mountain ranges in Europe can be country sized so Loki's statement could imply Low 6-B for him at least. It did make Azazel quite fearful. Ajuka creating the Australia sized dimension is fine, just don't know how long it took him. The 'moons' in the other dimension he created are not genuine, could check again to be sure though. In any case, I'm glad others care about this.
 
A member from the calc group really needs to be contacted.

Also Azazel clearly says once Loki shoots his attack the world map will be carved and repainted, so it sounds like it is instantaneous to me.
 
Ionliosite said:
Also Azazel clearly says once Loki shoots his attack the world map will be carved and repainted, so it sounds like it is instantaneous to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it is. I was referring to something else.
 
Ionliosite said:
A member from the calc group really needs to be contacted.
Click to expand...
@DontTalkDT is not a member of the calculation group anymore; I saw that you contacted him when I went on his wall.
 
@DontTalkDT is not a member of the calculation group anymore; I saw that you contacted him when I went on his wall.

Oh, then I think we need to contact someone else.
 
The point is. Loki's statement wouldn't apply just to the dragon gods. Everyone above Scale Mail loki would scale (which means Super Devil class and Heavenly Dragon Class).
 
Alright I was called here and I don't want to be mean and turn down requests for calcing bois, what's heckin going down
 
DMUA said:
Alright I was called here and I don't want to be mean and turn down requests for calcing bois, what's heckin going down
Click to expand...
Loki is stated to be able to carve and repaint the world map. Is that a High 6-A feat?
 
If they're like, ripping apart then rebuilding the planet's surface, yeah that'd be a pretty straightforward surface wipe

For reference
 
Jesterofgames said:
Would it be an outlier or no since all the other feats the god tier scale to are casual? (Just asking a question.)
Click to expand...
Dragon Gods make everyone else look like chumps in comparison, except maybe Shiva. Anything agreed for them here wouldn't be an outlier.

Don't know about Heavenly Dragons in relation to Loki's attack, I'll leave that to others, I guess.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Dragon Gods make everyone else look like chumps in comparison, except maybe Shiva. Anything agreed for them here wouldn't be an outlier.
Click to expand...
  • Including shiva
I think Finite Ophis was still said to be the strongest of all factions.
 
I meant for the other people who apparently scale like the super devil class and heavenly dragon class beings? (Or am I misreading the thread. Which is possible.)
 
I'll have to disagree with High 6-A. I think "carve and repaint the world map" is being extrapolated to extremes here

Given the statement in regards to Loki about how he'll "carve and repaint the world map" when he's about to shoot a blast in coastaal area. The "carve and repaint the world map" in context here is most likely just referring to terrain changing even at a small scale like taking out a chunk of land on the side of the country. Unless the said statement have a proper scale specified.

The Trihexa quote destroying mountains, lakes, and forests being destroyed is also already being described as a destruction that can change the world map, which is stated in a similar manner as "carve and repaint the world map".

Also, for the Trihexa part, while mountain ranges can go up to country size, the problem here is it didn't exactly state how many mountains was affect when it was destroying them or in what exact scale.

@Burning Full Fingers In regards to Trihexa's attack on Grigori, it was stated that Trihexa destroyed the facilities and it's surroundings so I don't get where did the destroying Grigori itself came from if you're referring to the territory itself:

Volume 21 Khaos Brigade (these 3 quotes are separate but they're all in the same chapter) Five days ago, after Trihexa revived, it destroyed the main facilities of the Fallen Angels' Grigori Institute first, after which, it was transported to Heaven.

The gigantic beast mercilessly sprayed out flames from its seven heads. The facilities of the Grigori, as well as the surrounding terrain were blown away in an instant.
------------------------------
Choosing the main facilities of the Grigori to be first was because they wanted to destroy it as soon as possible. Compared to the defence of other factions, even if it had significantly more advanced technology, the level of combat strength was insufficient. The size of the facilities was small in comparison to Lilith. If the defence was broken through, it could be destroyed in an instant.

Also, in regards to Heaven, wasn't it already mentioned and already rejected before in one of the earlier threads due to how unspecified it's size is?

Anyway, I think that God Tiers should stay at Unknown for now.

As for the Lightspeed statement, I'll just be neutral about it for now despite the Crocell light reacting feat.
 
Ahh, so it was the surrounding terrain. I thought it was the entire Grigori territory in the Underworld.

(Yeah, quickly skimming through some things again, the Underworld was described to have taken the least amount of damage. Good call there)

Yeah, we talked about Third Heaven for a bit back then. The size is vague. The best we can assume is that it's larger than the Underworld as no one knows its size.
 
It's more towards the main facilities and it's surrundings. Also, there's the fact that we don't know how far from it's surroindings did it got affected as well.

For Third Heaven, I'm not sure where did the assumption of it being larger than underworld came from when at best, according to Griselda, it's described that it's so vast that you can't tell where the end is, which gives an impression of unknown size.

Volume 18 Life 1

Sister Griselda explains to us who weren't able to have a look down there.

"Heaven which is commonly referred to exists in Third Heaven. It's the largest floor. It's so vast that it is said you can't tell where the end is. I'm sorry but the souls down there may be stimulated if Devils like you go there. Therefore we wanted to restrict you from visiting down there."


At the moment, it's not safe to assume a size for the Third Heaven unless there's a statement that have actual comparison within the series.
 
I agree with not attaching any size to it based on guesswork but it's possible to make an argument for that as no one has been able to quantify the size of the place for thousands of years unlike other locations in the novel. No other territory has ever had such a description.

Oh yeah, going back to 666's nerfed bodies. I believe it is likely the mountain range as it's mentioned that the level of destruction can alter the world map. Something so drastic as the world map being altered wouldn't be mentioned if it's just a small amount of mountains that were wiped out, right? But since the mountainous regions in Europe are so large, it would not be strange if the map is altered in the event of their destruction.
 
I don't think it is necessarily High 6-A in that the entire planet surface will be destroyed, but a sufficiently large portion of it enough to scar the world map.

So 6-B or 6-A? I don't know.

Worth noting that Serafell can casually destroy Japan even when just playing around.
 
I really think they should be calc'd with multiple ends and then discussed which end is more accurate with the text.

It definitely seems to range in the 6-B to High 6-A range on interpretation.
 
I do agree with @Matt that country level is more believable due to the wording and the power of the Demon Kings.
 
If Demon King like Serafall can casually destroy a small country like Japan. Country level for people far stronger than that is far too low
 
Yeah but "carve and repaint the world map" doesn't require full surface wiping. Just damaging a big enough chunk of it. If a large country such as, say, Britain were blown up it would absolutely "carve and repaint the world map"
 
But when you speak about modification of the world map it's not just a little part but a big part of it
 
Even a small fraction of Ophis power is 6-B, so her full power being the same tier would be kind of weird.
 
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