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Missing abilities on profiles for Dragon Ball, Z, Super, GT. Part 2

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ProudLearner

ProudLearner

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Since Part 1 had to many replies it led to confusion.

Note: Don't know if we can use other Fandom Wiki Abilities.

1. Son Goku (Dragon Ball) , and other Dragon Ball characters should get the following:

Acrobatics

'Here Here Here Here Here Here Here 'and so many times they do it...

All Dragon Ball Characters should scale to this!

(Rejected)2. Indomitable Will For Vegeta and Son Goku

Vegeta resisted the Babidi Mind control with his Indomitable Will.

Goku will not give up no matter what even if he has no energy left like in TOP Here here

(Rejected;Redundant)3. Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) and Broly (Dragon Ball Super) would have the following:

Resistance to Magma Here . Both were given Resistance to Heat but would it count as Magma?

(Solved)4.Master Roshi should get the following:

Afterimage Creation Here

(Rejected;Redundant)5. Frieza should get the following:

Resistance to Void Manipulation survive GoD Toppo Energy of Destruction that warp the WoV. Here

(Rejected)6. Son Goku (Dragon Ball), Z , Super should have the following:

Survive the Devilmite Beam with his Pure Heart.

Edit: I would like all seven list to be solved before the other stuff that users posted!

More will be added down below.

Next to it I will put (Solved) (Not Solved) (Rejected) so it wiil stop with the confusion.
 
Probably too spammy to repost so I'll just refer to my argument for Frieza's Accelerated Development and Reactive Power Level in Part 1. It's the second last post.

If anyone has criticisms for the arguments I made, I would be interested in hearing them to refine my claims.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If anyone has criticisms for the arguments I made, I would be interested in hearing them to refine my claims.
Click to expand...
Agree with Accelerated Development but when Frieza show to possess Reactive Power Level?
 
Anyway, i would too refer the previous thread for to my arguments about Vibration Manipulation (and possible Limited Air Manipulation) for Kiai users, Explosion Manipulation for Exploding Wave users, Limited Power Nullification for Tien and Goku via Kiai Keshi, Accelerated Development for all Saiyans and Hybrids via Training and Limited Durability Negation for Destructo Disk users, in case those discussions were still going.

Link here.

Also, i would like to bring another suggestion, Limited Heat Manipulation for all Ki Users.

Dragon Ball 209 Page 12

Dragon Ball 209 Page 13

Dragon Ball 209 Page 14

Dragon Ball 209 Page 15

As it was show by Kid Gohan that ki energy can generate heat.
 
Agreed on Vibration Manipulation for Kiai users. Example: Here - Its not Air Manipualtio though!

Limited Power Nulification for Tien and Goku via Kiai Keshi was rejected on that thread by @Dark649

Agreed on Explosion Manipulation For Nappa via Blazing Storm For Vegeta via Dirty Fireworks and For Syn Shenro via Blazing Storm. The rest are just Energy Manipulation.

Kid Gohan stuff is Energy Manipulation. All energy or Chi contains heat.

Limited Durability Negation for Distructo Disk has been rejected on your Thread and on my as well.

Thats just Reactive Power Level. Accelerated Development page says " List Reactive Power Level instead of this Type of Accelerated Growth."
 
Stefano4444 said:
CryoTheMayo said:
If anyone has criticisms for the arguments I made, I would be interested in hearing them to refine my claims.
Click to expand...
Agree with Accelerated Development but when Frieza show to possess Reactive Power Level?
Click to expand...
He continuously grew stronger in the ToP.

  • Pre-ToP Frieza completely matched Goku (despite Golden being far stronger than Blue)
  • Base Frieza curbstomps SS2 Cabba.
  • Frieza (halfway into ToP) is undamaged by Dyspo (who could blitz and injure Hit and SSG Goku)
  • Golden Frieza is faster than Dyspo and blitzes him (When SSB Goku couldn't tag Dyspo)
  • Golden Frieza dodges or blocks all of Maximum Dyspo's attacks, who is far faster than his baseline Light Bullet and is so fast that Champa and Vados struggle to perceive him
  • Post-Dyspo Frieza can freeze Toppo's Hakai (that warped the World of Void) for a single second, slows it down considerably and manages to tank it
  • Heavily injured Base Frieza can paralyse GoD Toppo for a few seconds
  • Post-Toppo Golden Frieza is considered impressive by 17, who witnesses Jiren and Frieza fighting. 17 has infinite stamina and, as such, is unlikely to have lost much power. 17 scales to or above Pre-UIO1 SSB Goku
  • Base Frieza and Base Goku, both heavily weakened, are depicted as equal and manage to defeat Jiren, who is stated to have grown stronger.
Frieza clearly grew far stronger over the course of the ToP due to the scaling of:

GoD Toppo >> (Over halfway ToP) Frieza >> (Speed) Dyspo ? Weakened Jiren > Base Frieza = Post-UI Base Goku > Android 17 >/= Pre-ToP SSB Goku = Pre-ToP Frieza
 
Worth noting a few other things:

  • Frieza's base semi-consistently scales to SSG Goku (note that in the anime, Goku had a 'Beyond God' state that allowed him to use God Ki in base. This was retconned with him tapping into SSG in the ToP)
  • The DBS Broly movie and novel both depict SS Goku as being superior to SSG Vegeta due to SSG Vegeta being overwhelmed by Wrath Broly whereas SS Goku is described and shown to keep up with Wrath Broly
 
Actually, looking into Beyond God...it doesn't seem like it actually conflicts with the scaling in Super.

Toriyama (and various magazine scans) merely state that Goku and Vegeta can use the power of SSG without needing to transform into it, and Super Saiyan Blue is the result of going Super Saiyan while using the power of SSG. Meaning that Goku and Vegeta going SSG now is actually purely for visual use. This means Base Frieza should scale to SSG Goku due to Beyond God debuting in RoF and nothing contradicting its existence beyond RoF.
 
ProudLearner said:
Limited Power Nulification for Tien and Goku via Kiai Keshi was rejected on that thread by @Dark649
Click to expand...
Actually Dark649 didn't completely reject it, but that it needed more imput. And in case you want to bring Damage3245's argument, i'm not convinced.

Just because Goku used a variant form of Kiai to nullify a Ki Attack, it should still count as Limited Power Nullification.

Roronoa Zoro had Air Manipulation via producing slash of air a cutting whirlwinds, he isn't Aang or Storm.

Superman had Limited Electricity Manipulation via rubbing his hands together, he isn't Enel or Electro.

Senator Armstrong has Fire Manipulation by moving/striking at high speed, he isn't the Human Torch or Natsu.

You too suggested to give Attack Reflection to Evil Buu, just because he could reflect Good Buu's Chocolate Beam with a mere breath.

ProudLearner said:
Kid Gohan stuff is Energy Manipulation. All energy or Chi contains heat.
Click to expand...
True, but at the same time not all Energy users had Heat Manipulation.

ProudLearner said:
Thats just Reactive Power Level. Accelerated Development page says " List Reactive Power Level instead of this Type of Accelerated Growth."
Click to expand...
Reactive Power Level is getting stronger while fighting, it doesn't include training, which is what Accelerated Development is for.

ProudLearner said:
Agreed on Vibration Manipulation for Kiai users. Example: Here - Its not Air Manipualtio though!
Click to expand...
Yes and no, the technique had be stated to allow the user to affects the air currents around him with his ki.
 
The real cal howard said:
Remember that the ToP arc is notoriously inconsistent
Click to expand...
Even if we disregard the ToP. The Leap in power that Frieza got by training for 3 months should give him Accelerated Development by default. Not only that, his training in hell to control Golden Form at its fullest without its draw backs.
 
The real cal howard said:
Remember that the ToP arc is notoriously inconsistent
Click to expand...
It might be inconsistent but the only other instance of Frieza fighting stronger opponents would be Goku (who Frieza went 100% against and was rapidly losing power, not to mention hit by a Spirit Bomb point blank) and Future Trunks (who killed Frieza pretty much instantly). We have many clear feats depicting Frieza as far surpassing what he could do prior to the ToP.

  • His Hakai control is far stronger.
  • He is far faster than Pre-UIO1 SSB Goku
  • He is likely much stronger, considering his base form could handle Dyspo, who SSG Goku struggled to fight and couldn't come close to hitting.
  • His base form could stomp SS2 Cabba easily, whereas Post-UIO1 Goku (albeit heavily weakened) could only handle SS2 Caulifa with superior skill.
  • He could freeze Toppo for a few seconds
  • He tanked a vastly more powerful Hakai than that of Sidra's, despite barely managing to handle it Pre-ToP, from a full God of Destruction that warped the 'infinite' World of Void
It seems to me that one of the most consistent parts of the ToP is how Frieza is doubtlessly far more powerful than depicted before the ToP itself. Due to lack of evidence that he lacked Reactive Power Level before the ToP (due to his only superior opponents being Goku (who he used 100% against and had tanked a Spirit Bomb from) and Trunks (who killed him almost instantly) . That is my main argument for him having the ability.
 
Except it contradicts what we've canonically known of Frieza since the 90s: that is power rapidly decreases when he's at his peak. I get that Frieza neutralized that but it's pretty bs to assume that it completely reversed and he gets stronger over time now. That's or just bad writing.
 
The real cal howard said:
Except it contradicts what we've canonically known of Frieza since the 90s: that is power rapidly decreases when he's at his peak. I get that Frieza neutralized that but it's pretty bs to assume that it completely reversed and he gets stronger over time now. That's or just bad writing.
Click to expand...
No, that's only 100% Frieza. He showed it off in the ToP to Frost and explained that it specifically screws over your stamina to push your body that hard. Frieza was capable of fighting up to...I think around 85%? Before his body started to bulk up and exhaust him.
 
Frieza being ssg tier makes sense considering the fact he was doing so well against Jiren while in base. There's also the Broly movie where Frieza casually blocked Broly's blast with a barrier and base Frieza took a beating for a little bit from Broly.
 
Yet apparently he can push it even harder now? Lest you're saying Golden Frieza is < 100% Frieza. Golden Frieza still had that weakness in the RoF arc. I'm not saying he didn't get rid of that weakness, I'm saying that it's stupid for his weakness to pull a complete 180 and do the exact opposite of the intended handicap.
 
The real cal howard said:
Yet apparently he can push it even harder now? Lest you're saying Golden Frieza is < 100% Frieza. Golden Frieza still had that weakness in the RoF arc. I'm not saying he didn't get rid of that weakness, I'm saying that it's stupid for his weakness to pull a complete 180 and do the exact opposite of the intended handicap.
Click to expand...
No? Where are you getting this from? Do you think someone has to use their maximum power to increase their power? Reactive Power Level is just the ability to increase one's overall power by fighting, which is what the Saiyans are all capable of and some others like Ganos. Frieza's 100% is treated closer to a form or power boost rather than his actual baseline.

Frieza explains it here He pretty clearly implies that it's not just going to your 100% power and he even refers to it as a 'form' and something that you can achieve by 'training'.

What you are arguing is akin to claiming that Base Goku can't grow any stronger unless he is using Ultra Instinct, his absolute highest level of power possible.
 
Goku doesn't have an explicit weakness. You're also implying that Frieza's somehow strong enough that he never has to use his peak power, even though he's constantly portrayed as on par with the other high tiers..
 
The real cal howard said:
Goku doesn't have an explicit weakness. You're also implying that Frieza's somehow strong enough that he never has to use his peak power, even though he's constantly portrayed as on par with the other high tiers..
Click to expand...
I am legitimately confused here. Do you actually think Frieza is using 100% constantly? He never uses 100% in Super. The literal only time he has done so is to trick Frost into weakening himself so he can't escape.

I already posted a video where Frieza explains and shows that 100% is something that he specifically has to activate, that its referred to as a 'form' that people can learn from training and that it has an explicit weakness where it loses stamina over time.

Goku, in RoF, explains that Frieza's stamina loss in Golden was specifically due to Frieza not even training the form slightly before coming to Earth. By the time of the Broly film, Frieza can use Golden for over an hour straight. We even see before the ToP that Frieza can stay in Golden while unconscious and removed his stamina weakness entirely.

The stamina weakness that you are referring to is specific to the 100% state, which Frieza has only used once in the entirety of Super.

Do you think Frieza was actually growing weaker, wasting stamina like crazy for the entire Tournament of Power? Do you think Broly was pummelling a Frieza that was constantly growing weaker for over an hour straight? What exactly is your rationale for believing this?
 
Yes I think Frieza was getting weaker throughout the tournament, because that's how energy works. You expend energy, you expend stamina. The Broly thing is nothing more than a gag. You take that seriously and countless plot holes open up in the ToP. Like apparently this Beerus level foe being weaker than GoD Toppo for example.
 
The real cal howard said:
Yes I think Frieza was getting weaker throughout the tournament, because that's how energy works. You expend energy, you expend stamina. The Broly thing is nothing more than a gag. You take that seriously and countless plot holes open up in the ToP. Like apparently this Beerus level foe being weaker than GoD Toppo for example.
Click to expand...
Yes I think Frieza was getting weaker throughout the tournament, because that's how energy works.

Yes, except characters in Dragon Ball can increase their energy by growing stronger. The more Ki you have, the more powerful you are. Saiyans can do this continuously over the course of a fight and by transforming. Jiren did it multiple times. 17 has unlimited stamina. Goku, Vegeta and Jiren all grew vastly more powerful from breaking their limits.

That's what 'Reactive Power Level' is. It's the act of growing more powerful by fighting. What you are implying is that Frieza retains his 100% Power weakness when not even using 100% Power. Which, mind you, based on the percentages provided in the manga, is only around 15% stronger than Frieza's non-bulked state.

The Broly thing is nothing more than a gag.

This excuse is tired. There is nothing contradicting Frieza becoming so powerful, especially not when he has multiple instances of growing insanely more powerful in short periods of time. It's present in the film, it's present in the script, it's elaborated upon and made more impressive in the novel. All of these are accepted as canon with nothing contradicting the scaling presented.

You take that seriously and countless plot holes open up in the ToP. Like apparently this Beerus level foe being weaker than GoD Toppo for example.

Cal...the director of the anime itself confirmed that SSBE Vegeta is as strong as Post-UIO2 KKX20 Goku. Toppo lost to someone 20x stronger than Goku Blue. Broly is 50x stronger than Post-ToP Goku Blue, who should be far stronger from UIO3, UI and fully recovering from the ToP.

Broly is literally 2.5x stronger than GoD Toppo at the absolute minimum, in his Super Saiyan state. SS Gogeta scales to SS Broly. FPSS Broly prompted Gogeta to skip from SS to freaking SSB.

There is NOTHING that indicates Toppo is even remotely as dangerous as SS Broly.
 
Toppo manhandled Frieza in a matter of minutes, if not seconds. Broly took a gosh darned hour. So yes there's something contradicting it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Toppo manhandled Frieza in a matter of minutes, if not seconds. Broly took a gosh darned hour. So yes there's something contradicting it.
Click to expand...
No, there isn't. There was a short gap of time between the ToP and Broly film. This gap is likely weeks considering Bra's hair growth over that period of time.

Frieza grew infinitely stronger in the span of four months. He then grew hundreds or thousands of times stronger in a year of simply meditating.

Factor in Frieza potentially having a Reactive Power Level, where he actively grew stronger throughout the ToP? It's not hard to believe Frieza, with, say, a week to train, would grow powerful enough to handle Broly for over an hour.

Of course, it's all based on how ridiculous you want to scale Goku. We know Post-UIO2 Goku Blue is stronger than UIO1 Goku, who is estimated on the wiki to be at least 40x Pre-ToP SSB Goku. Post-UI Goku should be much stronger than that but it's impossible to tell how strong. Regardless, that would still only place Frieza as having grown dozens or hundreds of times stronger within a week of the ToP, which is certainly within possibility due to his various other ridiculous leaps in power and arguable increases in power during the ToP.
 
The real cal howard said:
Those estimations are, excuse my French, bullshiza
Click to expand...
Well, Frieza went from small star level to universal in just four months and his Golden form equalled Goku's Blue form, when Goku had 4 years to train compared to Frieza's 1 year.

We have no idea how much stronger Goku became from his three years in the time chamber, but we know that Hit could tank X10 Goku Blue. In their rematch, Goku Blue ties with Hit, indicating Goku grew 10x stronger between their first and second fights. SSG Goku is then depicted as capable of saving Hit and fighting Dyspo, who could blitz and heavily injure Hit.

Blue is accepted as equivalent to Super Saiyan x God due to Goku's explanation. Super Saiyan is generally accepted as 40-50x Base. So...in the year between the Universe 6 arc and ToP arc, Goku grew potentially 10x stronger due to tieing with Hit in their rematch (when Hit could tank X10 and not be knocked out beforehand) and 50x stronger due to SSG Goku being depicted as saving and equalling Hit. Hit even references an attack as too dangerous to rush, with Goku simply bullrushing it with zero difficulty in Blue.

Factor in the three years of additional training that Goku had in the time chamber. It's not hard to claim that he grew hundreds or thousands of times stronger with these multipliers and scaling in mind.
 
I'm not sure how. Kaio-Ken has always been consistent. Super Saiyan's multiplier (when it was actually used) was very consistent (much stronger than X20 Goku. Could at least match 100% Frieza in raw power, whereas 50% Frieza matched X20 Goku).

Then factor in the scaling presented with Hit...I can see argument for the claim that Goku grew '50x stronger in the months between his rematch with Hit and the ToP' as being pretty absurd but I can certainly claim Goku was much stronger than Hit by the time of the ToP, which would still place Goku as, perhaps, dozens of times stronger.
 
Except Goku didn't have anywhere near that amount of buffs prior to the BoG arc. And he had even more rigorous training back then. Roshi's training way back when didn't make him hundreds of thousands of times stronger and that's because Goku doesn't get hundreds of times stronger between arcs, let alone within the same arc. Multipliers are bullshit.
 
The real cal howard said:
Except Goku didn't have anywhere near that amount of buffs prior to the BoG arc. And he had even more rigorous training back then. Roshi's training way back when didn't make him hundreds of thousands of times stronger and that's because Goku doesn't get hundreds of times stronger between arcs, let alone within the same arc. Multipliers are bullshit.
Click to expand...
Say that to Z, Cal...let's see here...

One Year of training - around 20x stronger (Went from 416 to over 8,000)

One month of training - Over 10x stronger (went from over 8,000 to 90,000)

One Zenkai in the span of a day or two - 33x stronger

20 x 10 x 33 = 6,600x stronger in the span of a year and one month. If you go with the power levels of early Z, that is.
 
We have no way of quantifying or scaling how much stronger the cast became after the Frieza saga due to power levels becoming 'immeasurable'. At best, you have Future Trunks effortlessly destroying Frieza and King Cold and then you have Goku easily parrying all of Trunks' sword slashes. We also have Goku and Vegeta seemingly treating Dabura as a non-threat when he is said to be akin to Perfect Cell.
 
You're correct, claiming Goku only grew 6,600x stronger in a mere year is a total lowball. We have to consider that he went from merely 5-B to Low 4-C (albeit with X10 on his profile but At least High 5-A in base) in just a year. Which, decidedly, is a far more absurd gap than a pathetic 6,600x increase.

Lest we not forget Piccolo going from matching 2nd form Frieza to being on the same level as Super Saiyans, before even having his fusion with Kami. Or how about Gohan going from High 5-A to 4-B in the span of just four years of training?
 
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