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Today on terrible ideas

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Depends, does Naruto have the Rasenshuriken yet? If not, lack of piercing damage screws him over against Luffy's rubber physiology as he doesn't have the AP advantage.
 
As a wise man once said: "This can't be good. This definitely can't be good."

So this is Luffy's strongest 7-A, meaning that he's Whole Cake Base Luffy.

He has future sight and a confortable AP advantage via being >> 838MT.

What happened to Naruto's scaling? Is he still scaling to 600MT or that was changed?

Edit: TWW, use Luffy's profile photo. That way the OP will look better with both renders.
 
This is 4th War Naruto vs Whole Cake Arc Base Luffy. What does Naruto have access to in this key? Sage Mode? KCM? Only Base?

I'm pretty sure he can use FRS in this form, but IIRC he can't use it as a ranged attack without using Sage Mode or KCM.

Luffy has the AP advantage and his Durability is directly scaling to High 7-A so Naruto won't have a nice time trying to hurting him without FRS.

With Observation Haki Luffy could prevent getting tagged by it, rendering Naruto's best advantage nearly useless. He can also further enhance his AP with Haki to enlarge tha gap.

Until I get answers I won't vote.
 
The real cal howard said:
Depends, does Naruto have the Rasenshuriken yet? If not, lack of piercing damage screws him over against Luffy's rubber physiology as he doesn't have the AP advantage.
Click to expand...
If this is Naruto in his strongest 7A form, then he would have sage mode, which lets him use the thrown rasenshuriken. He also has kunai and shuriken, and can summon a toad with a sword so he has ways to harm.

In regards to Luffy having preccog: Naruto also has some precog, that's functionally very similar to early series descriptions of Observation Haki (reading the opponent's intention to predict their actions). Though Naruto's is probably not as good as Luffy's it should at least have better range than his.

Naruto's best shot would be using clones and sage mode, but the number of clones he can use is limited in the forms he would be using here, and when he goes for a rasenshuriken his chakra runs out faster. Naruto's generally a better trickster and strategist, but haki would let Luffy deal with most of Naruto's tricks.

Overall I think Luffy would be able ot outlast Naruto's sage mode stuff, and once he did that it would just be a small matter to get past base Naruto's clones to win. I think Luffy takes this.
 
It is unknown to me whether Naruto can throw FRS in his base form as he pretty much spend most of the war in his Chakra Mode or Sage Mode, and even then, he isn't seen using FRS in his base form.

If this is 4th Ninja War Naruto, then KCM is not counted as it has it own key. So, basically Base and Sage Mode Naruto I believe

His Sage Mode should be stronger than when he fought Pain. Naruto has Limited Durability Negation via his Frog Strike so Luffy's High Durability won't be much of a problem if he could land it. Though Luffy has his own Durability Negation in his Red Hawk so I guess it even out.
 
The reason Naruto couldn't throw the original Rasenshuriken was because chakra like that can't be continuously controlled and supplied once it gets away fromthe source of chakra, your body. Sage mode allows you to control nature chakra which is naturally seperate from your body, which should be what allows him to control the thrown FRS. So based on the mechanics of the technique, he shouldn't be able to throw FRS in base even if he's stronger.
 
Was the amount of FRS he could use augmented after Pain's arc? IIRC he could use it thrice in a Sage Mode lapse.
 
He could use it three times and after the third he would instantly lose sage mode. It should have increased just by virtue of his increased chakra pool, but it's by an unknown ammount.
 
So any number would be guesstimating.

Well, with all things considered, Luffy would beat Naruto the moment he loses Sage Mode and it's more likely he'll dodge the FRS with his Future Sight, and the stat difference makes him more likely to gain the edge in that matter.
 
Naruto can use a thousand clones to massacre Luffy from anywhere, so his precognition is useless (i think).
Even on base, Naruto can use the Fuuton Rasengan (which has Fuuton properties) and Rasenshuriken.
With KCM (pre-war ninja), he can use the Rasenshuriken at long range and expand it, just as he can use mini-rasenshurikens.

But with the Kyuubi Naruto, Naruto would have an advantage as it can not be touched and can use devastating blows affecting thousands of meters.

However, Luffy is much more powerful and durable, and could beat him in one or more attacks, if he hits Base or etc, but... If Luffy scales at 800+ megatons, I think the AP advantage is not huge enough that Naruto does not damage him.

I vote in Inconclusive.
 
Can this Naruto use KCM variants? I asked above and I got that he can only use Sage Mode without jumping Tiers.

Naruto spamming clones is helpful but doesn't change the fact that Luffy could just Gattling them and poof them with no effort.

Why would Kyuubi Naruto not be touched? Elemental Intangibility? Haki bypasses that. Luffy's range is similar so he's not getting caught that easily when he can see several seconds in the future to prevent getting tagged or even letting Naruto perform the attack.

G2 Luffy is comparable to Zoro who mid-diffed Pica, the one with the 838MT feat. He even did it while Pica amped himself with Haki and Zoro still stomped him.
 
Correction: Gear 2nd Luffy is > Black Knight, which scales to Law, who scales above Vergo, who scales to Pica.

G2 > 838MT, G3 >> 838MT (Will probably change soon since we have a change in Fujitora's calc, so Gear 3rd will become restricted, possibly Gear 2nd as well)
 
@Calaca

I believe that Naruto KCM has been up tier. So disregard ...

Not if Naruto uses spamms of Rasengans, Fuuton Rasengans and Rasenshuriken, as he did against Kurama or equal to Gaara, from all angles.
Even if Luffy has power, I do not know if Luffy could get all the clones and the truly Naruto. As far as I know, this ability is a spamming attack, Luffy would need to throw his arms at each of them and as the speed is equalized, I do not know if he would hit all the clones quickly, before they hit him with several rasengans and rasenshurikens.

KN Naruto has a protective field, which is not punctured by a sword that cuts / affects the hardness of a diamond and that field has acidic properties. And I do not remember Luffy being able to move several thousand meters, I think he does this by stretching but it takes a little time for that (I think!).
Anyway, I think Luffy could dodge by what you said.

Okay, but would that justify going to High 7-A? Is not it would be scaling normally? But I'm fine with it. Still think it would give Inconclusive.
 
Schnee One said:
<Mid Diffed Pica

<Zoro still stomped him

Something doesn't add up
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't see it as either. It was a low-diff fight for Zoro, but definitely not a stomp. Though once he got serious it was over rather quickly.
 
@Most - There's a calculation for Fujitora that needed to be altered, and the accepted time-frame KE came out at High 7-A, so Luffy's Gear 3rd will scale to High 7-A, while Gear 2nd may or may not be affected.
 
@Cin

Thanks... But, Luffy is going to be more than 4~5x more powerful than Naruto? If yes, i think that Luffy can one hit Naruto (This is the variation to get one hit on someone, right?).
 
@Schnee

Ignore that inconsistency. I haven't slept last Night.

@MostPowerful

Luffy could just go G2 and get the speed amp to gain the upper hand against a Clone barrage. He can also slap them with a wide attack instead of just punching each one of them. Plus, if Naruto is starting in Sage Mode I think he couldn't spam clones (I don't remember quite well but in his fight with Pain it was stated that he could only use a bunch of clones while in SM).

I also don't know if Luffy's Haki would tell him where the true Naruto is, but if that's possible he'd aim for him.

I don't get what are you saying with the forcefield.

Yes, Luffy's range is him stretching his limbs. In a speed equalized match that move will be done at the same speed, unless the speed amp is counted on. Luffy is also a very agile fighter who tends to avoid most of the attacks but is also a tank. He could resist the regular Rasengan and Fuuton Rasengan but the Rasenshuuriken is out of his paygrade for the hax.

We're not sure about the scaling. This match might be outdated in a couple days for all we know.
 
@Calaca

I'm taking into consideration that Naruto and Luffy would start at Base.
Naruto has Shushin, KN (which increases his power, speed and durability each time a tail is born) and Mode Sennin, all amplificates your speed. So his speed would still remain the same with Luffy's, probably.
As far as I can remember, this is only possible via Third Gear, but its speed is get down.

I think this is headcanon.

Naruto has a force field with acidic properties and great resistance to blunt and pierce attacks. That red aura when he uses the Kyuubi Chakra.

So ... It would stay the same, right?
Naruto is also a agile and smart fighter, and after Jiraiya's death, has become better.
Fuuton Rasengan is still fuuton, so I think its durability would still be affected in Base and 2nd Gear.
Third and Four Gear, only Rasenshuriken, but spamming clones with such attacks would still work.

Hm ...
 
IIRC this Naruto doesn't have KN anymore after he gained Kyuubi Mode.

Yes, G3 lowers Luffy's speed by an unknown amount.

I said that Fuuton Rasengan would work but not much unless it has shown the same properties as FRS.

If the scaling is accepted G3 que G4 should be restricted. Otherwise Luffy would become High 7-A and 6-C respectively.
 
He can still use KN as he sees fit ... He did this in the final fight against Sasuke to tank Amaterasu.
Kurama Mode has not changed that, I think! And I do not think Base Naruto is still Mountain, after Kurama's full power gain and SOSP chakra.
I think we can only consider until the Pain Saga or a little above.

Ah ... Sorry! But then, a barrage of Fuuton Rasengans (hundreds of them) could beat Luffy.

In this case G3 and G4 are restricted, so I think Naruto could win in most scenarios. Luffy's power would be less than 2x above Naruto.
 
I'm pretty certain Gear 3rd Luffy is simply equal to Base Luffy's speed. Nothing really implies he slows down from base. It's just made apparent that he needed Gear 2nd to defeat Lucci, as Gear 3rd and Base were both incapable of landing successful blows on him.
 
The biggest difference is that Luffy is going to see everything Naruto tries before he even comes up with it.

I think we need more input about what forms does Naruto have access to in this fight, because Sage Mode is limited to a few fatal shots and KN is unlikely to be used in a fight (he used just to negg the Amaterasu using the Chakra cloak), and I'm not sure where the KCM fits in the scaling.
 
Not enough to avoid a thousand clones or more.

And without their stronger forms, Luffy's power is a little higher than Naruto's. Soon, Fuuton Rasengan would be much more effective and Luffy's Amp Speed would be counter by shushin and others.
Mode Sennin further increases his speed, what took Naruto advantage on speed.
About KN... Nothing prevents him from using it to fight him. It even increases the characteristics and all Jinchuurikis who have control over their bijuu can do so (via Killer B, Gaara and others)
We should use only Naruto from the Pain Arc.
 
If he punches Naruto before he even performs the Jutsu yes, yes it will be enough. Luffy would have seconds in advance.

Naruto only stacked Sage Mode and KN twice and the first time it wasn't conscious of it. The second time he used it was with one of his strongest forms which aren't 7-A.

Let's wait and hear what other people think about this.
 
Naruto and Luffy have the same speed. He would not stop Naruto from using clones. Although Luffy sees seconds in the future, until Luffy moves up to him and attacks him, Naruto already could execute his jutsu.

I am talking about both individuals, not both mixed.
Naruto could still turn into KN, putting up much of its speed and durability as the number of tails increases.

Ok...
 
If Luffy sees that Naruto is gonna summon the clones in 5 seconds and he can close the distance between them in less time he'll do before he can activate the Jutsu. It's not like he'd wait until the last second.

But how do we know the difference between 4th War Sage Mode and a hypothetical KN? He didn't used it and it doesn't have a key. I don't think it'd be allowed.
 
And it will not do any good ... He would have to go in Base form for this, and Naruto tends to start with Kage Bushin, mainly to see the abilities of the enemy. And the clones are summoned from the moment Naruto moves his fingers. There would be no time for intense combat.

What? Brother ... I told you to use Naruto from the Pain Saga, which has set keys. Exactly because there is a power gap between them.
 
Who would need to go in Base form for what?

I'll say it again. If Luffy attacks seconds before Naruto even thinks on moving his fingers he'll be stopped right on the spot. He's watching the future and if he has the chance to prevent it, he'll do it. This "no time for intense combat" argument doesn't work here.

It's not me who controls this thread's setting. If the OP doesn't feel like using Pain arc we need to know the difference. 4th War KN Naruto is hypothetical since he didn't used it so it can't be used as an argument.
 
Because he still wastes a little time to use the 2nd Gear.

Yes, and Naruto would be sitting there having a cup of tea while watching Luffy go up to him. He would not be seeing Luffy come up to him and would not hasten his movements or anything like that.
Yes, you make a lot of sense!

Yes, and Naruto can still use KN, it's still part of Tier. Soon, his argument that he can not use it falls to the ground because he used it against Sasuke and is that of Naruto KN1 ~ KN3 and all Jinchuurikis can use it, so Naruto scales at that.
 
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