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Overlord General Discussion Mk.IV

Ahh I wish the anime was up to couchcytus...

Contuing the discussion from last thread.

Im just saying it seems like world class items have always offered resistances regardless of teir. It probably didn't matter in yggdrasil as the only resistances high level players would care about from a world class item would be against other world class items.
 
Yeah, at least for now, it seems that the "World" protection is the highest one achievable and can block things that aren't WCI. We know that low-level players can use it, but they'd still die pretty quickly against a lvl 100, like the when the Black Scripture attacked Shalltear.
 
exactly.

It is kind of interesting that we all assumed world class items resistances would only stretch to world class items. I guess its because of how much it was focused on world class items being needed to defend against other world class items. Thus we all assumed they wouldn't work on other spells or teired magic.

Though looking at it logically it makes sense high level players would ignore the resistances granted that were not directly related to other wcl's as in yggdrasil building up resistances through classes and eqiupment is common practice basically whatever resistances offered by wcls were only improtant for other wcl.
 
WCIs still haven't shown cancelling not WCI stuff though. The only thing I'll agree with is the Wild Magic situation, but then Wild Magic has the very same property and that's leaving me suspect again.

Also... I don't know, I kinda wish this was the story from now on. Call me lunatic, but I like seeing Ainz in this kind of more, active setting? Empowering peculiar characters like Landfall and spending time with someone that isn't addicted to the very essence he breaths?
 
Ehh I found the evileye sidestory really boring overall, it was a bit of fun but it dragged on. Its boring seeing ainz so sedate, he was reactionary and seemed fine with just going with the flow I much perfer ainz carving his own path with his beloved chidlren to this more laid back uninterested ainz...

Edit What I enjoy about ainz in the main story is the world is changing and bending around ainz and I find it far more entertaining.
 
I don't know, perhaps I am just a laid back dude that likes seeing Ainz at peace and just, enjoying himself whole heartedly without issue, not to mention I much like that it brings him to action much more personally than otherwise, at least against opponents of equal mettle.
 
Yeah but its almost never him acting proactivly its him reacting, they find the thing responsible for the destruction of evileyes home after so much time he does for her what ainz would do for any guildmate. This version of ainz lacks motivation or a reason to do much of anything, he has no reason to enter the political stage, no reason to interfere with other countries, and to top it off he hasn't come to the conclusion he has in the main series the idea that might makes right and to always focus on gathering strength....


You know I guess my biggest problem is we didn't really get ainz, we got satzuki , ainz wasn't forced into situations that made him embrace and understand his inhuman nature, he hasn't embraced the name of his guild as his moniker. He isn't bound to act as the absolute guild master and protect his freinds legacy, in the end without something to drive him Satzuki is far to sedate for my taste. I much perfer ainz ooal gown to saturo...
 
And I prefer that, because Ainz gathering strength is the most boring thing ever. We just see bare displays of that power as it utterly crushes everything, there's no real change in him beyond becoming more of a villain with nothing resembling himself beyond some quirky bits. It's interesting when it's seen relative to the rest of the world because it is a very rich and cool world, but otherwise is just... it's honestly very dull.

And maybe, but Ainz Ooal Gown even when he fully becomes the mask he was putting, he's not an evil overlord. He's just an indifferent dude with too much power focusing on the only thing he still cares about, his guild. And beyond seeing what new way he does this, it's much of the same. The situations it creates are way more interesting than his motivation itself.

Plus, the idea of Ainz moving past his companions and actually accepting someone as a member of Ainz Ooal Gown, a new companion that can actually fill the hole on him, it feels way more entertaining and like Ainz is actually being made to grow, instead of growing complacent into a role he didn't even ask for initially but just went along with until he didn't care and decided it was for the best.
 
I get your perspective but I perfer ainz being forced to take a stand, to change the world around him. I enjoy the political intruige and ainzs growth into his role, ainz has decided to make the world a place his freinds would be proud and has grown to see the npcs as his children.

I just find ainz being so passive is boring, he could build a kingdom and rule the world but he won't without motivation something this Satzuki has alway's lacked. The guild granted him purpose a reason to be more than an impartial observer, he is no longer the meek man who wishes to avoid all conflicts he can. He is now a supreme being obssesed with strength and creating his vision of a perfect world.

I found evil eye pretty boring as well, as again she wasn't evil eye, she was keeno. A little girl with a chunk of knowledge in way over her head. She's not the strong (Though meme worthy) women we see in the current timeline.

Edit: I also find his perspective on the world, the whole the strong make the weak suffer and I am no exception interesting. I also find it fascinating how he has embraced the memories and lessons of his freinds, in a way he has become his namesake a practioner of the many different schools of thought that made up the personalities of his guildmates
 
I know something we will absoulutly agree on though, Ainz ridiculous luck. Its no longer a matter of the npcs just thinking of ainz as some flawless entity, If I had one of the gaurdians perspectives I would think he was some incredible flawless planner as well. Jesus he is so lucky it can easily be mistaken for genius without his perspective.
 
On the other hand, Touch Me has the power to play a minute-long music from where he is at, but how he does it is an exact mystery. Peroroncino even stated that Touch Me also has some sort of an explosion effect and his landing effect that he uses. One of his special effects was programmed to automatically trigger a meaningless explosion behind him with the words, "Justice Has Arrived" whenever he struck a certain pose.

Truly an important use of data and game assets
 
You know the side stroy has really solidified how screwed the dragon lords are in the main series, they can fight ainz on even footing, but ainz isn't the strongest pvp build in the guild and not suited for one on one combat. His whole build is meant to be behind a meat sheild could you imagine how screwed the dragon lords would be if they faced ainz and shall tear or any two gaurdians? Especially since they've all been given world class items?
 
I doubt that's the case. It's mentioned that with the 200 years of time Cure had in the normal continuity, he would have covered many of his weaknesses and turned stronger - if he wasn't dead.

Ainz especially geared himself with armor for dragons and undead, knowing a lot of what to expect, and against an opponent that severely underestimated him due to an arrogance problem. Even then, and with Ainz having a lot of advantages due to WCI cancelling Wild Magic, special combo of skills that gets rid of the biggest hurdle for Ainz which even he admits would likely get him killed in other circumstances (ball of zombies), the Guild Weapons which boosts Ainz' abilities to high hell and all of his buffs and pretty much a second caster besides himself, Ainz still had to almost deplete all his Mana to finally kill Cure.

And Cure isn't the strongest Dragon Lord. What is saving Ainz is his foresight and ability to strategize, but now imagine if this was Cure after 200 years and his arrogance had calmed down? That's all the guardians dead with only Shalltear surviving due to revive item if the Downfall of Castle and Country incident hadn't happened, or the fight happened earlier than this.
 
Yeah x doubt, cure elms dead according to the slaine theocracy. Again I just don't see the dragon lords emerging victorus against more than one gaurdian as I said their ultimate weapon gets screwed over by ainz and co all having world class items. What can they do

How would cure elm kill all the gaurdians? His main magic is screwed by the gaurdians all haveing wci, the dragons may have other tricks/abilities but I doubt its enough to make up for fighing two level one hundred npcs decked out to handle other players.
 
Eh that may come across ruder than I meant, Im honestly curios as to how you see the dragon lords emerging victours against all the npcs. Hell in the web novel the pdl ran away from shalltear after a short battle fearing her strength. Heck pdls whole strategy with players seems to be avoid conflict and let them kill eachother...
 
... I feel like you missed the part where I said "if they didn't have it".

And I am not sure how you couldn't. Cure has all day to deal damage and damage and damage to the guardians, and would only be screwed over by more than one coming. They'd still have to kill 6 digits of zombies before getting to him, possibly millions if he pulled all the zombies he could get, all the while he's free to attack. Chip damage is damage even if it takes a long while, and the author confirms outright Cure would be stronger by the time of the normal Overlord. His worst match in this case would be Shalltear pulling ahead in stamina, his best would be Aura since he can just soul rip all of her pets and she's way weaker than a normal guardian.

He even leaves it incredibly vague what's the actual state of Cure in the normal Overlord.

And I am not sure what's wrong with that being his strategy, you'd want to use the option with the least risks no matter what.
 
I did apologies. My whole point is the dragon lords are unlikely to face off against a single opponet from nazerick and are liable to get pkd by a group of two or more. While cure elms armor is a great defense I don't see what he could do if one of the gaurdians use an ablitiy simlar to ainz summoning the goats. While we haven't seen the gaurdians use abilties like that at level one hundred I doubt they dont have some powerful aoe attacks that could nuke through his armor.

Honestly we'll see in the future, but lets assume cure elm kills all the gaurdians and ainz. Ainz and co respawn in the tomb and send gargatuan and all the gaurdians fully equipped to deal with undead and dragons. Ainz tears through his armor with tgoalid and goat summoning. Cure gets desperate kills off the goats and now has to deal with the gaurdians who no sell his ultimate attack.

Who knows maybe cure elm will put up a decent fight but I honestly suspect we're not gonna get an epic battle. Just my gut feeling in this case.
 
Yeah, I didn't see until I reloaded because of the edit. My mistake.

And it's extremely unlikely anyone has an ability like that. The only reason it worked is that it just killed the zombies outright instead of dealing damage, and Ainz concluded none of his other spells would really be able to do something similar. The only one you could guess they could is Mare since that's his speciality, but not one of the other guardians has shown they could have an ability to deal massive amounts of damage over a massive area. Its not what they are made for, it's not even what Ainz is made for as his biggest AoE that deals a ton of damage is Fallen Down, so he had to combo two of his biggest skills.

Respawn how exactly? Shalltear never respawned on her own except with her resurrection item, of which we know only Ainz has something similar. If they die, they stay dead unless Ainz survives or someone else remains alive that knows how to revive them. And the Guardians are just gonna be pissed beyond belief about Ainz death, I don't see any strategy there.
 
Your forgetting the whole point of volume thirteen was ainz forcing the gaurdians to make plans for his death. Your right if cure elm managed to kill them all they are done for saying that I find the idea of cure elm managing to kill them all off before they can respond/deal with hih incredibly unlikely.

True without that ablitity the gaurdians will struggle though Id be willing to bet, aura and mare would have something to help them deal with this situation as they are built to deal with large groups of enemies.

Im not saying its absolute I just have trouble envisioning a scenario where the dragon lords actually manage to defeat ainz and co. Saying that if they team up they might stand a chance but they are unlikely to do so as they seem adverse to working together.(though my preception may be colored by the authors announcement that the denezins of nazerick would get a happy ending)
 
Yeah, Volume 13. But one thing is forcing them and the other is them actually doing it without being controlled by emotion. Demiurge was ready to be killed if needed to save Ainz when he thought he'd lose to Shalltear, even if it was by Ainz' hand for disobeying. And Albedo's love has made her betray even her creator. And I mean, they still need to deal with thousands of hundreds, if not millions of undead before getting to him. And they have no way to do anything if the anti teleport barrier is up and hr starts shooting his layzor. Remember that he took the dark young wailing on him, a Primal Fire Elemental, like 3 or 4 casts of triple maximize reality slash, some other spells and a final volley of spells of Ainz while using the Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown before he died. He's taking a lot of punishment even if they kill all zombies and he has all that time to shoot.

Mare more than Aura. Aura deals with groups by using summons. Now, tell me what happens when an Undead dragon with a 250 KM soul rip that has made even other dragons his loyal undead slaves see this little girl bringing a bunch of monsters to battle him? That's a feast of high level new zombies.

I doubt Murayama a lot when he says words like that these days >.> Plus, there's still the Dragon Emperor who is even higher in level than Cure and the other hidden Dragon Lords. Even worse, seems like PDL's abilities are the best nemesis to the likes of Shalltear and Ainz. And he's no arrogant, short sighted dude like Cure.
 
I very much want to see Ainz pay for all he's done, whether that ends in death is another matter.

But the setting and Ainz are still both juicy and rip for more exploration and growth, so not yet.
 
Im going to be real dissapointed if ainz loses but I understand the sentiment. I love what ainz is doing in the story Im so tired of the good guys alaways winning its why I enjoy overlord as it shows a semi comptent villian bending the world around him

Edit: Ill loose all interest in the series if ainz "Pays" for what he's done
 
That's understandable, it has a great appeal and the author has done a very good job with it, but Overlord strikes me as the sort of novel where I would be way more happy if there was actual, good opposition against Ainz. Now that would be dynamic.

A competent and powerful villain using every card is great, which is why I like overlord. But a creative characters trouncing equal, even way bigger and more powerful odds that make me doubt even when it seems like obviously the character can't die, they are the main dude, that thrills me.

Which is exactly why Worm is one of the stories I most love as far as giving me excitement.
 
So you want to see ainz face an actual opponent, something grand and powerful rather than just him steam rolling everything, you want to see him face some improbable odds and win through wits rather than simly being stronger? Or do you want to see someone overcome ainz despite the odds stacked against them.

edit While worm is a fun series the scaling and endbringers are weird as all hell
 
Both are very viable options, but even if Ainz is overcome I either want: - For it to be temporary but Ainz survives, and gets one of the closest true tastes of death he has had since reaching the new world. - For it to be an actual match, wit and power used to their fullest as Ainz wrestles victory while truly unsure if he will get to.

I wish I could care about the "scaling issues", but I honestly don't. Worm is still an spectacular piece to me. I just feel sad that things like The Dreamer were never revealed.
 
Im not saying it detracts from the series just that the end bringers are pretty weird for trying to scale anything.

The biggest prbolem with getting ainz in such a situation is nazerick itself it offers him so much power and an incredible stronghold to fall back to. That along with all his equipment and npcs puts ainz in a position where the only ones who can reasonably challange him are the dragon lords and the sheer amount of npcs beneath ainz puts him at an advantage. To top it off ainz paranoia and cowardice make him difficult.

I think we may get a true battle for ainz but I highly doubt we'll ever see him pay for/regret what he's done. Hell even if he started to regret the emotional suppresion will stop him from ever having a case of full blown remorse.
 
We already have one massive revision being discussed lets focus on one thing at a time!

Joking aside maybe? Id have to read over the text before I was confident in commenting, though saying that why don't you give your stance over on the ongoing crt?
 
I understand, saying that its mostly just me an lance going back and forth, you read one of our arguments on that thread you've read them all. Sorry for the inconvience.
 
Now that I think about it, Evileye has destroyed a country and filled a city with undead. The Wild Magic spell that she absorbed could destroy countries and fill cities with undead.

Hmm . . .
 
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