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Broly and Jiren

Zamasu_Chan

Zamasu_Chan

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First I thought Jiren was stronger, then Broly, but now I'm not sure. We should probably discuss the many outcomes, arguments, reasonings, etc of how this would play out and who's stronger.

Please keep in mind this isn't a vs battle just a discussion, so there might be official multipliers brought up for the sake of low balling and high balling. If things go out of hand, I'll have someone close this.

Jirenenhanced
A saiyan? Very well, come at me with all you got!

Broly ssj broly movie 2018 render 7 dokkan b by maxiuchiha22 dcvd4vb-pre
You're strong... let's have some fun.
 
This isn't gonna reach any conclusion cause the show hasn't given us much to go by. Broly was stated (by someone who has reached God of destruction levels of power) to probably be stronger than beerus, and if so, by how much we don't know. Jiren is stronger than a God of destruction, but we don't know how he compares to beerus specifically.

Too many unknowns.
 
Well, according to the Toriyama manga Beerus is one of the two most powerful gods of destruction, and according to a statement from Toriyama Goku and Vegeta are currently supposed to be quite close to him in power (without Ultra Instinct), so given that Broly completely outclasses them, I would personally guess that he is stronger than Jiren was during the tournament. However, Jiren might have trained hard since then.
 
The problem is we don't know how strong is Beerus. He's a complete outlier at this point. Also Goku wasn't sure how much stronger is Broly compared to him
 
Antvasima said:
Well, according to the Toriyama manga Beerus is one of the two most powerful gods of destruction, and according to a statement from Toriyama Goku and Vegeta are currently supposed to be quite close to him in power (without Ultra Instinct), so given that Broly completely outclasses them, I would personally guess that he is stronger than Jiren was during the tournament. However, Jiren might have trained hard since then.
Click to expand...
But towards the end of the movie, Goku said he'll comeback and train Broly to master his powers, so he most likely will have grown stronger as well.
 
It's highly debatable on several factors:

  • How powerful is Jiren in comparison to Beerus
  • How powerful is Gogeta in comparison to the latter two.
  • How close is Vegeta and Goku to Beerus prior to fighting Broly
  • Can Broly's power statements be considered valid ?
  • Is Goku's assessment of Broly's power legitimate ?
I'm hoping there is an anime adaptation so this can be solved accurately without any debate.
 
Jiren is the strongest enemy Goku has faced no question asked, he was able to contend with MUI Goku a form that places him above pretty much every God of Destruction.
 
Jiren via dozens of episodes of feats, scaling and reactions, and not just every single DB movie being released automatically putting everybody below Beerus.

Also showings of UIO being stronger than Potara fusion, Gogeta should be nowhere near the level of MUI Goku.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I want clearer statements of the levels of each character compared to the GoDs and to each other. I want to know where Gogeta, Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Jiren, and the GoDs all currently stand in terms of power in their various forms.
Click to expand...
Slightly edited this.
 
Jiren via feats

Broly via advertising and statements

Neither via scaling (Can not quantify how strong Goku and Frieza are currently. Can not quantify how powerful MUI Goku is. Can not scale LB Jiren.)

If you analyse the Anime scaling it comes down to:

MUI Goku > LB Jiren >> Base Jiren = UIO3 Goku >> GoD Toppo = SSBE Vegeta > Post-UIO2 X20 Goku >> Post-UIO2 Goku > UIO Goku = SS2 Kefla > Post-UIO Goku

Goku likely grew much stronger from his UIO3 and MUI limit breaks (and is likely much stronger after fully rested). SS Broly is 50x SSB Goku. GoD Toppo is comparable to SSBE Vegeta who is comparable to X20 Goku.

Movie scaling:

SSB Gogeta >> FPSS Broly >> SS Gogeta >/= SS Broly > GoD Toppo >/= Golden Frieza <=> X20 Goku >> SSB Goku <?> SSB Vegeta (questionable scaling)

SS Broly objectively scales as 2.5x the power of GoD Toppo. UIO2 Goku's placement is unknown but limit break scaling would indicate that Post-ToP SSB Goku should be above that.

Overall scaling:

SSB Gogeta >>> FPSS Broly >>> SS Broly > Post-ToP X20 Goku <=> Golden Frieza >> Post-ToP SSB Goku > UIO2 Goku >/= GoD Toppo = SSBE Vegeta

SS Broly is objectively superior to UIO2 Goku, likely far superior from scaling. FPSS Broly is likely superior to UIO3 Goku and Base Jiren.

How Broly scales to LB Jiren and MUI Goku is the questionable part.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Jiren via feats

Broly via advertising and statements

Neither via scaling (Can not quantify how strong Goku and Frieza are currently. Can not quantify how powerful MUI Goku is. Can not scale LB Jiren.)

If you analyse the Anime scaling it comes down to:

MUI Goku > LB Jiren >> Base Jiren > UIO3 Goku >> SSBE Vegeta = Post-UIO2 X20 Goku > GoD Toppo > SS2 Kefla  UIO2 Goku > Post-UIO2 Goku > UIO Goku > Post-UIO Goku

Goku likely grew much stronger from his UIO3 and MUI limit breaks (and is likely much stronger after fully rested). SS Broly is 50x SSB Goku. GoD Toppo is comparable to SSBE Vegeta who is comparable to X20 Goku.

Movie scaling:

SSB Gogeta >> FPSS Broly >> SS Gogeta >/= SS Broly > GoD Toppo >/= Golden Frieza <=> X20 Goku >> SSB Goku <?> SSB Vegeta (questionable scaling)

SS Broly objectively scales as 2.5x the power of GoD Toppo. UIO2 Goku's placement is unknown but limit break scaling would indicate that Post-ToP SSB Goku should be above that.

Overall scaling:

SSB Gogeta >>> FPSS Broly >>> SS Broly >> Golden Frieza > Post-ToP SSB Goku  SSBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIO2 Goku

SS Broly is objectively superior to UIO2 Goku, likely far superior from scaling. FPSS Broly is likely superior to UIO3 Goku and Base Jiren.

How Broly scales to LB Jiren and MUI Goku is the questionable part.
Click to expand...
Fixed
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
"SS Broly objectively scales as 2.5x the power of GoD Toppo."
Why?
Click to expand...
An anime director confirms that SSBE is roughly akin to Goku's Kaio-Ken in power. In other words SSBE is 20x SSB. Toppo was contending with SSBE Vegeta but started to get pushed back when Vegeta grew stronger via anger boosting (emotion boosting?) and was defeated by Final Explosion (which SS2 Vegeta used to tear Buu into thousands of pieces).

Super Saiyan is accepted as a 40-50x boost. We see in multiple shots that Broly (after he becomes calm again) had eyes and eyeliner just like his Wrath form. It has been agreed on the wiki that Broly was likely stacking Wrath and Super Saiyan.

So if Toppo scales to 20x Blue and Broly scales to 50x Blue you come to the obvious conclusion that Broly is 2.5x GoD Toppo. Broly is likely far above this figure due to him stomping Post-ToP SSB Goku who would have been boosted much further from using UIO a third time and achieving MUI, not to mention Goku would be far stronger after resting.

So with these factors in mind it is objective fact that SS Broly, at a minimum, is 2.5x stronger than GoD Toppo.
 
Personally:


If we assume Post-ToP Goku gained power fromt he previous 2 boosts from Ultra Instinct.... Then it's likely that he is between UIO 2nd to UIO 3rd by only using SSB. The statements that Goku is nearing the level of GoD's supports that asessment, epecially considering that Goku surpassed UIO 1st after using Ultra Instinct 2 times prior, and he broke his limits 4 times afterward (When he was pushed by Jiren before gaining UIO 3rd, his surge of power after Vegeta's motivation, awakening MUI, and after being enraged as MUI), then fully recovering after the Tournament. All of these hint that he is likely extremely close to the likes of the Gods of Destruction.
 
Not really? Your example of Vegeta contradicts that since he did adapt relatively quickly to that. Not to mention SSJ Broly was adapting to a SSJ Gogeta at the same time before that.
 
The gap between SSJ and SSG is logically too big for Broly to adapt. But they need to sell merchandise so SSB Gogeta is the better option
 
Do we even know the gap between SSJ and SSJG post-absorption? I don't think we actually treat it as the 4-B to 3-A multiplier on Goku or anyone.
 
Kefla's fusion power was described as the total of both multiplied by tens of times. This power gap wasn't enough as it was stated SSB Goku could beat Kefla if he had full stamina, but SSJ2 Kefla still had more raw power than UIO 2, which is undetermined.
 
SomebodyData said:
Do we even know the gap between SSJ and SSJG post-absorption? I don't think we actually treat it as the 4-B to 3-A multiplier on Goku or anyone.
Click to expand...
SSJ2 Goku was struggling against Kale and Caulifla. While SSG was stomping them left and right. So the gap must be pretty big.
 
That's not much compared to the original gap. Heck I would argue SSJ3 would also stomp them.
 
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