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Discussing the new SKP to SS Distance Calc

TataHakai

TataHakai

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So a few calc members have accepted these new calculations for the distance between SKP and SS which make a huge difference in the verse's statistics, the problem with them, in my and Matt's opinion is that they use calc stacking

The calcs:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._society_and_soul_king_palace,Mimihagi_speed~

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...n_Reiokyu_and_Seireitei_and_speed_of_Mimihagi

This is my and Matt's problems with the calcs

The calculation first finds Ichigo's speed by finding the distance he crossed, using the already accepted size of Seiretei and assuming a timeframe, this, i'm sure i don't need to explain why, is a calculation.

It then takes this calculated speed and applies it to Ichigo's entire descent, something that starts 30 chapters and many scenes before the calculation takes place, thereby calculating the distance between SKP and SS using a speed that was found through calculations. (Ichigo starts descending chapter 555 and doesn't arrive until chapter 581)

Me and Matt have already raised our concerns of it being possibly calc stacking but we want to hear other people's thoughts, especially calc group members so it would be nice to have some input.

CALC GROUP MEMBERS ONLY
 
Pardon me.I know am not in the position to post anything here,but i would like to clear up the misconception here.


The calc is based on ichigo diving all the way from Soul King Palace to Soul Society.

The calc then uses an initial velocity of zero for ichigo and finds the final velocity of ichigo(That is,him crossing the distace of the shakonmaku to ground in a matter of seconds).

The total timeframe of ichigo's descent is 9h 15m

A body with velocity whose initial is zero reaches a final velocity X. What is the acceleratio of this body?.How far would he cross in 9 hours 15 Minutes with this acceleration?.

Everything is literally solved in the calc.It does not involve calc stacking as it doesn't apply the feat to another, it's pretty much a straightforward calc.
 
The problem lies in using the calculated acceleration of Ichigo in Chapter 555 and then using it a constant whilst also applying an assumed timeframe to his arrival in Chapter 581. It is straight up calc stacking and also has faulty assumptions.
 
Ok.

But, Ichigo's acceleration was not calculated in cap 555, I explained that in the other topic.

Ichigo's initial speed was ZERO, his final speed was X , so I found his acceleration.

Acceleration = / = Speed

Acceleration is the speed variation rate.

The way you're talking, it seems that I calculated your final speed and used it as a constant all the way, which did not happen here.
 
I know that speed =/= acceleration. The problem is that acting like the acceleration is constant and that he won't reach a speed cap.
 
I'm rather neutral to this rn, though I matter less here than the actual calc staff anyways.
 
We have an initial and final velocity. That is, there is an acceleration.
What you're questioning does not make sense, basically, if Ichigo had hit other higher speeds during the course he would have insured. And it also does not make sense that it slow down during the course. As this does not depend on external, only internal factors, it and Ichigo's goal to get to Seireitei as soon as possible.
 
In fact assuming the character reached X before arriving will get even higher values, as it means that the character is constantly X after reaching X.
 
I personally think that this is up to the calc group members to decide, not the rest of the staff.

Can somebody ask more of them to reply here via their message walls?
 
The problem with the calculation is that the acceleration is found via another calculation, which again is calc stacking,

"The way you're talking, it seems that I calculated your final speed and used it as a constant all the way, which did not happen here."

But you did calculate the acceleration FROM the final speed, you're essentially third party calc stacking if anything, you can't put another part to the calculation just to make it seem like you're not using Ichigo's calculated speed for another calculation, because like i said, even the acceleration is found through a calc.

Calc stacking: "Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculatio in order to calculate other feats."

It's by the definition calc stacking.
 
I would appreciate if somebody could ask all of the calc group members to respond here. Maybe DontTalkDT, Kaltias, and Assaltwaffle as well.

VS Battles Staff
 
Thanks, but I meant the entire calc group.
 
Antvasima wrote: Matthew is correct in that the hostility between the Naruto and Bleach fandoms here has turned far too extreme, which is kind of silly when you think about it, as both are entertaining shounen manga, although the ending was unfortunately rushed (due to the author's health issues) in Bleach's case. I wish that he would have gone the HxH route instead, and taken an extended break to continue later.

Anyway, the others are correct in that it is the calc group members' job to decide these kind of issues. Perhaps TataHakai could start a thread in the calc group forum, and discuss the issue with the other 3 members who accepted this calculation, without either Matthew or any Bleach fans interfering?
 
Yes, but then I asked here for all of them to be contacted.
 
If you think so, something like kinetic energy also can not be used, since, as you say, "using results from one calculatio in order to calculate other feats."

What happens in kinetic energy?

We need to calculate the mass, calculate the velocity and then play the formula. That, by definition, should also be the stacking calculation, right?

So why is this not considered stacking?

It is simple, because all this refers to a single achievement.

Look at this calculation.

The feat is that Pain reacts to Rasenshuriken, but before calculating this, they needed to calculate Rasenshuriken's velocity through a distance he traveled, time was also found through another calculation. With this, they used this Rasenshuriken calculation and applied it to find the speed of pain.

By definition, this should also be considered stacking, but why not?

Because it is a feat that encompasses many talents.

In my calculation, it was the same thing. I found the final velocity of Ichigo through a calculation where it crosses a distance in a certain period of time. With that I found his acceleration and applied in the time of his trip.

It's like I mentioned, this is a feat that includes several, but in this case even that does not exist here. The only thing that has been calculated is Ichigo's final speed to find his acceleration, being that, he crosses the top of Shokonmanku to the ground, is part of his journey.
 
I agree with USklavarei. Calc Stacking is mathematically correct, it is only considered inaccurate as fictional character's powers tend to be inconsistent. If it is the same scene though, it is acceptable (except special cases that we clearly disallow for other reasons, eg. getting speed from KE). Otherwise pixel scaling over multiple steps, KE calcs and a lot of calcs would be wrong merely because it involves several calcs.
 
It's considered inaccurate because it inflates results, like here, and there's no reason to assume speeds we gain from calculations is taken into account when authors set distances, which is why freefall speed is the best option.

The pain calc is incomparable because the RS that is calculated is the exact same RS that pain dodges, in the exact same chapter, not 30 chapters before, if we calculated an RS 30 chapters before that feat and applied it to pain's dodge it would be calc stacking.

"In my calculation, it was the same thing. I found the final velocity of Ichigo through a calculation where it crosses a distance in a certain period of time. With that I found his acceleration and applied in the time of his trip."

I explained why it's not the same thing.

"If you think so, something like kinetic energy also can not be used, since, as you say, "using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats.""

KE and Speed calcs are different, as per our calc stacking page the difference is that with Speed you can infinitely inflate calculations through calc stacking without ever getting speed feats, whereas with KE there is always a set mass and speed unless it is revised and set again.

From the calc stacking page: "The reason it is usually disregarded is because it has shown itself inconsistent many times and usually gives inflated results. Through the method any long running franchises could also scale their stats infinitely upwards without actually ever showing any feats in the range they are listed"

This also adressess your point Spino.

"We need to calculate the mass, calculate the velocity and then play the formula. That, by definition, should also be the stacking calculation, right?"

Again, read the calc stacking page please.

Anyways i'd appreciate if calc members only could comment, rather than turning this into another mess.
 
You can only infinitely inflate calculations when you use calcs from a previous scene in another scene. It is literally the same feat here.
 
It isn't "the same scene" because there's 30 chapters in between, 30 offscreen chapters mind you where we have no idea about Ichigo

And it is very different from those, as i said, you can't infinitely inflate calcs with set values such as KE

But with speed, finding speed from a calculation about speed is just going to allow it to keep rising despite not showing those feats.

I don't think this can be compared with other scenes that use the exception that you're thinking of.
 
It's considered inaccurate because it inflates results, like here, and there's no reason to assume speeds we gain from calculations is taken into account when authors set distances, which is why freefall speed is the best option.

The free fall speed is the best option because it suits you and dramatically reduces the distance.

The pain calc is incomparable because the RS that is calculated is the exact same RS that pain dodges, in the exact same chapter, not 30 chapters before, if we calculated an RS 30 chapters before that feat and applied it to pain's dodge it would be calc stacking.

But no matter the number of chapters, it could be 10, 100 or even 1000 that would not invalidate the calculation. The feat is the same.
Aside from what you cite, it's kind of meaningless. A war was going on and Ichigo traveled for 9 hours, it's kinda obvious that it would have several chapters, unless you think Kubo should do it all in 2 pages and ignore everything that happened in the war during those 9 hours.
 
What part of Staff and Calc group members only is so hard to understand?
 
So, the calc is basically:

>Speed feat for Ichigo

>He needed 9 hours and 15 minutes to reach Soul Society

>Distance = Ichigo's feat*time needed

Yeah it's calc stacking

Also, side note, i'm pretty sure that the freefall formula shouldn't be used to find acceleration if something exceeds terminal velocity from the start.

Meteors are a good example of that, they don't accelerate after entering the atmosphere, they slow down
 
Kaltias said:
Also, side note, i'm pretty sure that the freefal formula shouldn't be used to find acceleration if something exceeds terminal velocity from the start.
Click to expand...
This was another point i was going to bring up, Ichigo wouldn't go beyond like 150 m/s if we use freefall acceleration, let alone the tens of thousands that the calc says.
 
Pardon me.I just want to point out something.

In this Here we see ichigo while diving still making boost,this was when he arrived at soul society atmosphere.

This means he was still accelerating,which also means he hadn't reached terminal velocity till he hits the ground.

We know a falling object doesn't stop accelerating till it hits terminal velocity or it hits the ground.
 
Danny1112 said:
We know a falling object doesn't stop accelerating till it hits terminal velocity or it hits the ground.
Click to expand...
That was my point.

Ichigo's speed already exceeds terminal velocity, so freefall wouldn't cause any acceleration. I don't doubt that he can propel himself, but not thanks to the freefall.
 
Is there any reason in particular that the calcs assume that ichigo moved with a constant acceleration for 9 hours?
 
Pardon me again.I will like to point another thing again especially in regard to @kaltias.

Ichigo started his journey by diving down all the way from soul palace, he then arrives at soul society and hits the ground.

Now this is basically one feat and wouldn't involve calc stacking in the sense we don't apply his acceleration to a whole different scenario.

As for the argument that the calc applies the acceleration to a different scene,hence calc stacking but that's not the case.

Take for example. Let's say I dropped a stone from a height,i have someone film me drop the stone.

Then that someone decides to film other things,but that doesn't mean because he shifted from filming the stone falling,that the stone would basically hang or hold still in the air.

While his filming other things the stone would still be falling.He then now shifts over to filming the stone once again and this time it captures the stone hitting the ground.

The chapters that were shown after the panel ichigo dropped were the things happening while ichigo was diving.

That is,the 9 hours ichigo took to land from his "fall".

It won't be calc stacking if we find ichigo's final velocity course its one scenario

It won't be calc stacking if we multiply the acceleration of ichigo by the time he took to land " squared by two" and divided by two to get the distance course it's one scenario.

Like i reiterated before.

A body with velocity whose initial is zero reaches a final velocity X. What is the acceleration of this body?. How far would he cross in 9 hours with this acceleration?.
 
Kaltias said:
Danny1112 said:
We know a falling object doesn't stop accelerating till it hits terminal velocity or it hits the ground.
Click to expand...
That was my point.
Ichigo's speed already exceeds terminal velocity, so freefall wouldn't cause any acceleration. I don't doubt that he can propel himself, but not thanks to the freefall.
Click to expand...
That is in regard to my own calc right?I agree with you.

That means it's the acceleration calc that should be used then?Course ichigo said he was going to push himself to hurry down,which is the reason why he exceeded terminal velocity.
 
But the problem is that there's no way to find Ichigo's speed once he exceeds terminal velocity without calculating it as you did, and applying that to another calculation is calc stacking.
 
TataHakai said:
But the problem is that there's no way to find Ichigo's speed once he exceeds terminal velocity without calculating it as you did, and applying that to another calculation is calc stacking.
Click to expand...
But it isn't tho.It would only be calc stacking if we applied a speed of ichigo gotten from a calc from a different scenario to get the distance.

E.g We know from a scenario,ichigo was able to outspeed lightning, him out speeding lightning was calced at this,which means this would apply to ichigo's descent.

But in this case it's basically one scenario.

Ichigo diving from soul palace,ichigo lands from his dive at soul society.

We find ichigo's final velocity.

Like i reiterated before.

A body with velocity whose initial is zero reaches a final velocity X?.What is the acceleration of this body? How far would he cross in 9 hours with this acceleration?.

This is basically like kinetic energy calcs.

We find the volume of the moved said object,find it's mass,find it's velocity and then apply them together to get the kinetic energy.
 
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