Reiokyu-Seireitei Distance Change

[Arc7Kuroi]

Intro
So, with the new Bleach anime as the primary canon, I decided to recalc the Reiokyu-Seireitei distance using what we see in the anime rather than the manga.

Calcs
Here is the old calc.
Here is the new calc.

The old calc presupposes Ichigo's travel speed, and while I believe the presupposition is fine in and of itself, I also believe that finding a valid method that doesn't rely on such presuppositions is intrinsically superior. Hence the new calc, it utilizes the distance seen between the sun and Reiokyu to find how close Reiokyu is to Soul Society's earth (since we know the sun-earth distance is 1 AU). Additionally, I utilized all the shots of the sun in Reiokyu's sky for ang sizing to ensure that it remains consistent, which I did find to be consistently portrayed. Therefore, I am proposing that the old distance calc be replaced with the new distance calc.

Voting
Agree (use the new calc): Clover, Mitch, M3X
Neutral: Damage, DT (is skeptical)
Disagree (keep the old calc):

 

[zylieo]

I told you the SK palace was as far as the sun

 

[CloverDragon03]

As said in the blog, I agree with this. This is a more reliable method, and it also helps that this comes from the anime, which is the primary canon for the TYBW

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not going to say that one method is better than the other here, but I'm a bit wary when it comes to angsizing celestial objects.

If we take this page for example for another manga, we could end up with the Moon being 73 times closer to the planet than it is in real life based on some angsizing.

I don't know if we can trust the visuals to be reliable for this method to be particularly trustworthy. Maybe @DontTalkDT can comment on the legitimacy of angsizing the location's distance to the Sun?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm not going to say that one method is better than the other here, but I'm a bit wary when it comes to angsizing celestial objects.

If we take this page for example for another manga, we could end up with the Moon being 73 times closer to the planet than it is in real life based on some angsizing.

I don't know if we can trust the visuals to be reliable for this method to be particularly trustworthy. Maybe @DontTalkDT can comment on the legitimacy of angsizing the location's distance to the Sun?

Sure I'm open to that, I will say, unlike that one off panel of the moon in Naruto, the sun in Reiokyu is consistently shown to be around 10^6 km away from Reiokyu, so I don't know if the scene in Naruto is exactly applicable here. However, I understand your concern and will wait to see what DT says.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm not going to say that one method is better than the other here, but I'm a bit wary when it comes to angsizing celestial objects.

If we take this page for example for another manga, we could end up with the Moon being 73 times closer to the planet than it is in real life based on some angsizing.

I don't know if we can trust the visuals to be reliable for this method to be particularly trustworthy. Maybe @DontTalkDT can comment on the legitimacy of angsizing the location's distance to the Sun?

This really seems to be more for the aesthetic or vibe of the scene rather than Kishimoto trying to depict the moon's actual distance from Earth.
There are these shots of the moon here as well u can try and find the distance for it here, 1,2,3

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think Damage's point was primarily about art inconsistencies, idk if we really need to turn this into a Naruto moon debate tbh

But as far as ang sizing celestial bodies for distance, it is worth noting we do so in various other calcs, like Toneri moving the moon for example, so we do have precedence of this being valid. Furthermore, the sun is consistently portrayed at a size that makes Reiokyu 10^6 km from the sun too, so I don't believe it falls prey to a one off art inconsistency

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm not going to say that one method is better than the other here, but I'm a bit wary when it comes to angsizing celestial objects.

If we take this page for example for another manga, we could end up with the Moon being 73 times closer to the planet than it is in real life based on some angsizing.

I don't know if we can trust the visuals to be reliable for this method to be particularly trustworthy. Maybe @DontTalkDT can comment on the legitimacy of angsizing the location's distance to the Sun?

I mean, one problem is that it will be drawn inconsistently, since the animators are just drawing it by feel. The calc itself already shows a 30x difference between high and low end.

I would also want to see how this looks if we angsize the sun from soul society as well, since I have a feeling that doing so will result in distances that are not the earth-sun distance. I.e. if we buy angsizing celestial bodies we would likely need to drop the assumption that SS solar system is like our solar system, which then results in new problems.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I mean, one problem is that it will be drawn inconsistently, since the animators are just drawing it by feel. The calc itself already shows a 30x difference between high and low end.

I would also want to see how this looks if we angsize the sun from soul society as well, since I have a feeling that doing so will result in distances that are not the earth-sun distance. I.e. if we buy angsizing celestial bodies we would likely need to drop the assumption that SS solar system is like our solar system, which then results in new problems.

So, if the sun from SS is consistent with out solar system it's cool, but if not it probably isn't, is what I'm taking from this?

I'll go look for scans of the sun in SS in the anime

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I would also want to see how this looks if we angsize the sun from soul society as well

So we never see the sun in soul society's sky in the TYBW, the anime likes to use a lot of grayscale in SS and thus its always cloudy when in SS, i even checked the shots of the sky we get in SS and the sun aint in it, so unfortunately we have nothing like that to compare. Where do you suggest we go from there?

 

[DontTalkDT]

So we never see the sun in soul society's sky in the TYBW, the anime likes to use a lot of grayscale in SS and thus its always cloudy when in SS, i even checked the shots of the sky we get in SS and the sun aint in it, so unfortunately we have nothing like that to compare. Where do you suggest we go from there?

You can see the sun in that shot, actually. (Episode 1, I believe)
The clouds do make it a little hard to see, but if you look at the animation it becomes clear that the glowing circle is the sun.
A quick scaling gave me 300px for the sun and 1800 for image height, which gives about 6e6 km distance.

Otherwise, one could still use manga scans of the chapters before TYBW, as those are still the main canon for those other parts. But yeah, it doesn't look good.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You can see the sun in that shot, actually. (Episode 1, I believe)
The clouds do make it a little hard to see, but if you look at the animation it becomes clear that the glowing circle is the sun.
A quick scaling gave me 300px for the sun and 1800 for image height, which gives about 6e6 km distance.

Otherwise, one could still use manga scans of the chapters before TYBW, as those are still the main canon for those other parts. But yeah, it doesn't look good.

That is a horrendous scan dude, you cannot see the sun at all there. But ig rn you're more in favor of not using ang sizing?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yeah that scan is very bad. Is there any better scan than that?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah that scan is very bad. Is there any better scan than that?

Not for the TYBW anime's depiction of the sun from Soul Society.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

As far as what we get in the manga, it's far too lens flaired to actually get an accurate scale of the sun. Like in the manga the sun is drawn very stylistically flaired, while in the TYBW anime it's just not shown at all in SS. Afaik we don't have a good image of the sun from SS to really check how accurately it is drawn by Kubo, but we definitely don't have a scene in the anime that shows how the animators draw the sun from SS.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The new calc is fine as long as that actually is the sun

Although part of me also thinks that sizes of the moon/sun are usually very inconsistent in the sky when it comes to Manga/Anime

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

agree: DemonGodMitchAubin, Clover Dragon,
Neutral: Damage, DT
Disagree:

EDIT

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

if are standards kinda forbid celestial object ang sizing and whatnot or if it needs to satisfy a list or sumn I don’t mind using the original, I just couldn’t find any standards or the sorts

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

agree: DemonGodMitchAubin, Clover Dragon,
Neutral:
Disagree: Damage(?), DT

Well DT is skeptical and wanted a shot of the sun in SS but that doesn’t exist. And Damage doesn’t think one end is inherently better than the other atm, or so it seems.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Bump

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah that scan is very bad. Is there any better scan than that?

Do you have any thoughts here?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I still think that scan is useless.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I still think that scan is useless.

which one? the one posted by arc or DT?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I still think that scan is useless.

Right right, I agree. I’m wondering moreso if you think the new calc is fine. Since we both agree the scan DT used to say the sun is inconsistently drawn in Soul Society is an invalid scan, due to the sun being hidden behind clouds and unable to be actually seen.

 

[M3X_2.0]

yeah

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Now, in accordance with Mitch's concern about if the Reiokyu sun is the same sun as in Soul Society, or it's its own separate sun, I do believe we have due reason to say it is likely the same sun.

So, we know that people can physically travel to and fro Reiokyu as long as the proverbial door is open, aka as long as the 72 barriers aren't barring entrance. Furthermore, the walls that surround Seireitei which normally surround Reiokyu can also physically travel down to Seireitei. Coupled with the fact that Reiokyu is just a separate space that exists inside Soul Society, similarly to how Muken is within Soul Society despite being it's own pocket dimension of sorts, and people can physically travel to it as well (as long as the dimension gate is open). However, at the same time, I don't believe I can claim with absolute certainty that it is the same sun, as we have precedence for pocket dimensions in Bleach to have their own stars.

So, basically, I'm saying that I am fine with attaching a likely to the newly calc'd distance, if people think that better encapsulates the reasonable skepticism. The distance would then be ~10^7 km (old calc), likely ~10^8 km (new calc).

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Now, in accordance with Mitch's concern about if the Reiokyu sun is the same sun as in Soul Society, or it's its own separate sun, I do believe we have due reason to say it is likely the same sun.

So, we know that people can physically travel to and fro Reiokyu as long as the proverbial door is open, aka as long as the 72 barriers aren't barring entrance. Furthermore, the walls that surround Seireitei which normally surround Reiokyu can also physically travel down to Seireitei. Coupled with the fact that Reiokyu is just a separate space that exists inside Soul Society, similarly to how Muken is within Soul Society despite being it's own pocket dimension of sorts, and people can physically travel to it as well (as long as the dimension gate is open). However, at the same time, I don't believe I can claim with absolute certainty that it is the same sun, as we have precedence for pocket dimensions in Bleach to have their own stars.

So, basically, I'm saying that I am fine with attaching a likely to the newly calc'd distance, if people think that better encapsulates the reasonable skepticism. The distance would then be ~10^7 km (old calc), likely ~10^8 km (new calc).

Your explanation is fine

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Your explanation is fine

you for the likely then? or full on?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

you for the likely then? or full on?

I think I full on accept it, I don’t think it entirely needs the likely

The skepticism is valid, but I agree with the explanation, so I’m fine with it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Cool, well at 3 agrees and 2 neutrals I think this thread can be accepted, ofc if new information comes out in cours 3 or 4 that contradict or change this up, I will make sure to account for that then.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This thread should've been closed October 10 ngl