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The Sixth Dimension.

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Elizio33

Elizio33

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The Monitor, Anti-Monitor and the World Forger are apparently able to exist in the sixth dimension (Possibly 1-C).

  • The sixth dimension is the control room of the multiverse.
  • When they are destroyed, the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and the World Forger re-form in the sixth dimension (Possibly Immortality Type 4).
Perpetua Multiverse5
 
KingPin0422 said:
Just because they can exist in the sixth dimension doesn't mean that they can affect six-dimensional structures.
I am neutral on Type 4 Immortality.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
Hmm. This is a very important scan, as it establishes that Grant Morrison's map of the DC multiverse is only intended to be 4 spatial dimensions and one temporal, not infinite ones as in J.M. DeMatteis' interpretation, and that all the Monitors, including Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, The Monitor, and Anti-Monitor, along with The Thought Robot, are currently intended to be 6-D/Low 1-C.

As such, it is also very important that you ask all of the following members to evaluate this new information and comment here:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23.
 
This is one aspect I actually have no idea about. I'd suggest Matt's help tho, IIRC, he was the one that advocated Infinite-Dimensional DC.
 
Antvasima said:
Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23.
Click to expand...
Linking the message walls just in case:

Matthew Schroeder

Sandman31

Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot

Ryukama

Reppuza

Shivansh Garg

KLOL506

Zensum

TheC2

Nether nine

Crimson Azoth

Eficiente

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFa

The ArchDemon

Sera EX

Kepekley23

Please, make sure to link this thread and ask for input in each of the message walls.
 
@Bobsican

Thank you for the help.
 
The Spectre's Crisis key would also have to be adjusted.
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. This is a very important scan, as it establishes that Grant Morrison's map of the DC multiverse is only intended to be 4 spatial dimensions and one temporal, not infinite ones as in J.M. DeMatteis' interpretation, and that all the Monitors, including Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, The Monitor, and Anti-Monitor, along with The Thought Robot, are currently intended to be 6-D/Low 1-C.
Click to expand...
Do you mean we are gonna downgrade them based on this scan?
 
This creates a massive problem with our profiles.

There are a lot of characters on our DC profiles with Creation feats written by writers who employ a High-1B Cosmology for that ONE story. (Matteis and Carey maintain High-1B) And those stories are still technically and officially canon to current DC despite that it says contradictory things about DC's true Omniversal size from then.

What's worse is that Lucifer 2018 maintains Lucifer shaping Creation and canonizes M. Carey's run again which implied High-1B Cosmology.

The issue lies when you take in the factor that the Overvoid of DC ensures that everything in DC is canon, no matter what.

It is best we start employing the concept of OUTLIERS not just to feats. But to Cosmology sizes as well. I don't know what to make of this.
 
Maybe we could simply count the 6-D Morrison multiverse as a tiny part of a High 1-B greater whole?

In any case, if the Monitor Sphere is only intended to be 6-D, we cannot scale the characters that I mentioned earlier as either 2-A or High 1-B.
 
@Ant

So is the issue here that this would effectively downgrade Mandrakk the the Thought Robot but upgrade the Monitor and Anti-Monitor?
 
@Azathoth

That is correct, yes.
 
@Nether

Was it stated that Michael and Lucifer created an infinite-dimensional multiverse?
 
I see. Well, I'm not quite sure about what to say for right now, but I'll wait for some people more up to date on the current goings-on of DC to weigh in.
 
Okay. No problem.
 
Regarding the scan, the comic comes out in a few hours so we should get more context. Also this gonna be an entire arc so a lot could change afterward. Perhaps hold off on any major changes till then?
 
@Zensum

We can obviously wait for the comicbook to come out today, but I don't think that we have to wait for several months for the entire storyline. This seems pretty cut and dry.
 
Okay.
 
To be fair Ant. Mxyzptlk is just a 5-Dimensional being. How would he know how many dimensions there are in DC? Let's rationalize that for a bit.

Because the Morrison Multiverse map was in use during N52 when Matteis and Jenkins wrote Infintie to Innumerable Higher Dimensions would make N52 DC Cosmology anwhere between high levels of 1-B to High-1B.

At least Sena (although appeared only in Larfleeze) her mind did exist in Boundless Infinite Higher Dimensions.

And Rama Kushna still exists in both N52 and Rebirth Cosmology. That statement of hers of Innumberable Dimensions is still... technically canon.
 
Well, I read the new issue of Justice League, and it doesn't seem to contain much more additional useful information than what was shown in the scan above.

We preferably need more input regarding how we should properly handle this issue.
 
The writer is completely clueless lol . Even the multiverse in old john bryne morrison storylines has shown to contain 28 dimensions to infinite dimensions .

Mxy's quote is as relevant as Ultimator's quote where he referred to the 10th dimension as the ultimate and highest dimension

" A nature enough reaction ,your three dimensional space cannot begin to encompass the 6th dimensional space which we "travelThe citation proves that they are travelling through spatial dimensions

" until he reached 28 known dimensions "


Definition of UNCOUNTED

uncounted
 
How about this, let's just dismiss Snyder's number on dimensions as an OUTLIER Cosmology number. Because it is way too inconsistent for DC's Cosmology for us to just downgrade just because of this scan. It's a LOW showing for DC's Cosmology. Should not use it.

All the High-1B statements for DC's Cosmology from Vertigo to Matteis and 1-B Statements from Paul Jenkins and co. are still all technically canon thanks to the Overvoid and Hypertime.
 
Also grant morrison treats everything as cannon to his cosmology . He referred to john byrne story where metron travelled trough 28 dimensions to his quest for knowledge and some demattis stuff from 1990's

https://imgur.com/mlkOnkU
 
Yes please. We can have those changes very soon Ant. But note, this will only apply to the Snyderist Cosmology. And you are legitimizing a story that renders DC as just 6-D. Which will create a massive mess to our DC profiles like multiple different trucks smashing into each other to the point we have to separate our DC profiles by Writer interpretation.

Snyder has branched out enough to the point that he already has his own set of interpretations out of Morrison's own ideas. He's literally trying to replace the Monitors with Perpetua as the new big bad of DC.

This is even worse. At least Morrison thinks Hypertime and such are 10-D or at least the entire thing. Already Snyder is conflicting Morrison on DC's higher dimensional strature.

I just wanna bash my head against a wall for just thinking about this mess on DC.
 
Why would the Monitor scale to this? Being 6-D isn't sufficient for a rating without feats
 
Well, the Morrison cosmology that Snyder bases his work on has stated outright that each higher dimension is an infinity above the previous one, and the Anti-Monitor did destroy most of the DC multiverse.
 
Perhaps they can have two keys?

However, Matt and I agreed the Anti Monitor and Monitor be upgraded to High 2-A due to being superior to Mr. Mxy. So being Low 1-C actually supports this superiority.

@Kep

In DC, higher dimensions equal qualitative superiority. If Mr. Mxy views 3D beings as spatially flat, the Monitors would see timelines or other 4D structures as flat and be able to exist throughout all iterations of 5D reality as a singular being.
 
This isn't saying that the multiverse is only sixth dimensional at all, and people leaping into "lul downgrade!!!" solely because of this scan while ignoring everything else is part of the problem.

The Map shown in the panel isn't even the complete map, just the orrery of worlds.

The Anti-Monitor and the Monitor being at least Low 1-C is fair, as that is establishing an intended baseline for the Monitor race, but we absolutely cannot ignore all other depictions of the DC Cosmology, all showings of infinite dimensions, all higher feats performed by the likes of Mandrakk and others, and etcetera... Simply because of a single statement of a "Sixth World".

This is really one of the biggest problems with Dimensional Tiering. Putting more emphasis on statements which are often completely arbitrary and chosen by writers on a whim than any attempt to analyze actual feats.
 
Mxy implied that the 5th Dimension is outside the Source Wall it seems. No wonder he said the Source Wall being broken allowed him to bring Superman to the 6th Dimension. We all misunderstood the context.
 
Nether nine said:
Mxy implied that the 5th Dimension is outside the Source Wall it seems. No wonder he said the Source Wall being broken allowed him to bring Superman to the 6th Dimension.
We all misunderstood the context.
Click to expand...
It isn't.

Even in the map itself, the Source Wall is outside Monitor Sphere.
 
I only remember one offhanded mention of infinite dimensions in a J.M. DeMatteis story, not several of them.

Morrison seems to have a wildly different approach to DC cosmology.
 
What are Mandrakk's explicit infinite-dimensional feats?
 
Not just DeMatteis, others too if I recall. Lucifer in particular. Nevertheless, one statement does not supplant another, and diverging cosmology interpretations is to be expected in such a vast fictional universe.

But all of that is ultimately irrelevant as putting more emphasis on statements of numbered dimensions as opposed to feats is a terrible idea.
 
Antvasima said:
What are Mandrakk's explicit infinite-dimensional feats?
Click to expand...

At least High Hyperverse level, likely Outerverse level (Exists in the Monitor-Sphere, and is the most powerful out of all Monitors. He was overwhelming The Thought Robot during their battle)

Powerscaling for The Thought Robot:

 
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