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Why DO we add matches to profiles?

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Schnee_One

Schnee_One

VS Battles
Retired
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Ohhhhhh God the hatred I'm going to get.

I'm going to be real and ask this, will this change the rules? Of course not, but I do want a solid answer here because time it just seems to do more harm then good, consider this a hopefully professional rant on the wiki I guess.

So Why do we add matches to profiles?

Now, the answer I get, with pretty much no exception is "It gives people motivation to make matches, and without it, people would not bother with making matches"

This isnt entirely false, but not entirely true either. SpaceBattles, Comic Vine Etc. do not add matches to profiles, yet they have plenty of matches and well centered debates that still happen as a result of this. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-dechefman98-vs-kingnegativity-1988383/?page=1

One of my favorite examples right there.

People who want a match to debate, will debate regardless of if the match will be added or not, and they will not be discouraged by the fact that it won't be added.

There are the people who only debate in a thread just to get a character a win or loss, these people, are typically the ones that cause a debate to go bad, and the problems below it arise.

Now aside from this one point, giving some people motivation, it causes, all of the following.

1. People creating matches for the sake of giving people losses, be honest, everyone, especially certain others create matches for the sake of having one win or lose, these may not be stomps but they're clearly in favor of one character, and this causes general frustration with everyone involved in it.

Fairy Tail had a ridiculous problem with this for almost a year, people creating matches for the sake of having them get losses on their profiles.

There's many other examples including one earlier today that I shall not name that got my eyes rolling out of my head.

Speaking of this.

2. Stomps. This problem, especially to anyone who's been on this site for a while, is downright obvious. And it's not a small problem either.

Just running down the lists of problems this alone causes.

1. You have the metric ton of people who all have different views of what a stomp is, you have entire threads on this. People who can't decide what a stomp is arguing back and forth on it, and this becomes a case by case basis as certain characters simply do not fit this bill, some are walking exceptions to this rule where it can't be fair for them.

Darth Nihilus is an obvious example.

Resist any of his passives? You get stomped

Resist it? He's a skilled baseline and he has less abilities and strengths then Dragon Ball characters.

2. Leading up to issue above, you have the people who will claim a match is "Descisive" in order to have said matches be added. Typically these people don't actually bother backing up why, and are WIDELY inconsistent with what a stomp is and isn't. Though we've all had this At some point.

3. This kills the variety of matches some people can make.

If I make Salem vs Esdeath (which I have wanted to for a while as I think Esdeath has a viable win con) then I run the risk of this match being a stomp in one direction and thus not being fair for the character, pointing to the example at 1. Where this example isn't fair for one character and thus I can't viably make it.

So here's the question again Does the wiki adding to matches really give us a benefit? And if it does, does it really outweigh the huge amount of negatives to it?

If the answer is No. Then you've just admitted that there's no point to adding matches.

Again, I doubt this will change rules, but I want a good answer please.
 
Schnee FRA.

But yeah, the only thing that adding matches does is lead to people labling characters based on their wins or losses. Sometimes it can be admittedly funny, but its not very productive all things considered.
 
Getting rid of the match addition ruins about half of the fun of matches and is the reason I chose to look at OBD and VSB over CV the instant I found out about them. And I'm not exaggerating. People, including myself, would participate far less without the ratio. Sports have records for a reason and that's to show how well they fare.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Im probably gonna catch a lot of flack for it but i agree as well, all it really does is create an atmosphere of 'my character is so powerful look how many wins they have' or 'your character sucks look how many matches they lost'
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Mami Tomoe
 
I admit it's unprofessional and would benefit the wiki to no have it, so I agree as well. That said, I will genuinely miss this if it goes away.
 
The real cal howard said:
Getting rid of the match addition ruins about half of the fun of matches and is the reason I chose to look at OBD and VSB over CV the instant I found out about them. And I'm not exaggerating. People, including myself, would participate far less without the ratio. Sports have records for a reason and that's to show how well they fare.
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I am talking about these people in my post, a good people have a knack for causing every single one of the problems I am criticizing them for in this post

Including an example from today you are very familer with. With all do respect

Why is adding a match? Which changes literally nothing about the match itself, give half the fun?
 
Okay, okay, I've seen ridiculous things. I've seen stuff like removing somebody based on some simple powers that're out of place, but THIS IS NOW BEING CONSIDERED? Okay, one more wrong move and I'm gonna consider leaving.
 
Saying this is wrong without giving reasons why isn't going to help your case and literally proves my point
 
But still, this is just...no. I just cannot. I'm done with this place.

As I said, one last wrong move and it settles the score for me.
 
Versus threads have been shown to be a good motivation for a good chunk of users of the site to stick around (Myself included), especially when you take a look at some threads and find out they also motivated users to make proper CRTs to upgrade the quality of the profiles with more accuracy, meaning that´s it worth for it to stay, as it helps keep the motivation and morale of the users (and even some staff) high enought to go on around the site.
 
Well, I heavily agree with Cal, if that counts. If not, just make it out yourself why I'm peeved. For me it just ruins the fun of matches.
 
I recall that we had a discussion about whether to remove them from profiles or not before, where in the end it was decided to keep them. (Was it via vote...? that was a damn long time ago, no idea)


In any case, what the threads add is information not listed on the profile. For example do we still lack a section to detail what a characters fighting strategy and fighting skill is. Likewise how certain powers would interact or other finer details often not found on profiles can be found in vs-threads.

Given, I think we should change how we handle stomps. In my opinion when we add matches it's basically irrelevant how fair or unfair a matchup is and instead we should go by quality and relevance of debate. Then again, it might be difficult to put that into text in a way that does not cause lots of debates over the subjectivity of the matter.

Edit: Just thought of another good reason to list vs-threads - Opposition. As stupid as it sounds, but I think this community generally lacks haters. Well, maybe not haters but people in that direction. There is a natural tendency for people to mostly work and pay attention to verses they like. What that means is that debates about content revisions are mostly populated by people with a certain positive bias towards the fiction (whether concious or unconcious). People wanting to avoid a loss of their characters being added is actually one of the few ways to motivate someone to check if the information on the profile is a secure interpretation, without having a positive bias.
 
I love how you picked a CaV I did that's been dead for over two months and hasn't been concluded yet in order to support your point.

I'm not going to lie, I've had some real issues with this wiki as of late, and this...aspect of ours is a reason why. If I may be so bold, this is part of why our community has developed so many problems. Culturing ourselves around something like this is already a bad idea, since it encourages people to only make matches that can be "added", as well as strive for threads to be added for selfish or spiteful reasons as outlined above. Adding human nature to that just makes it worse.

And before some defense is made, I'm going to be blunt. Having actually been on plenty of other sites before and after coming here, I can say with absolute certainty that nobody else outside of this site cares about this sort of thing. As much as people here tend to berate the place, ComicVine doesn't give a minimal shit about "what can be added to profiles" because A) they don't have profiles, and B) the community cares more about debating and having fun than trying to leave marks on a character. At best, you have their Debaters' Hall of Fame which they use to showcase when certain users perform well, and that isn't the same thing at all.

I don't know whether or not we'll ever change this, but I'd be all for it. I've never seen the point, and I still don't.
 
Bobsican said:
Versus threads have been shown to be a good motivation for a good chunk of users of the site to stick around (Myself included), especially when you take a look at some threads and find out they also motivated users to make proper CRTs to upgrade the quality of the profiles with more accuracy.
Click to expand...
Adding matches has nothing to do with that, the versus threads themselves don't change at all
 
I mean yeah that just seems to ruin the fun of it. I like seeing matches be added because it feels like something was...actually done, I guess? I dunno I like adding matches to any character, especially lesser known was, whether it's a win or loss. It's just...I dunno it motivates me to make more
 
Firstly, I get it. Let's just get this out of the way, because we both know what you're talking about. One, literally 90% of Star Wars matches had the same conclusion and you weren't berating people for that. In fact, you came at me when I was doing the berating. At least I put said opponent against a character who would win if character one waited more than two seconds.

Secondly, and less rant-y, and more on topic, profiles are significantly less interesting without the Others section. Vs debating cares significantly less about how powerful is one dude as much as it does who beats whom.
 
Schnee One said:
Christian Higdon said:
Well, I heavily agree with Cal, if that counts. If not, just make it out yourself why I'm peeved. For me it just ruins the fun of matches.
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Why is the match itself not fun if you only care about it being added?
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I feel you misread what I just said.
 
Again though Why?

Why is adding the match make a thread more fun then the debate on it?
 
I feel like the argument could be made that matches give a character context. Like, we know this guy is High 6-A, but how what does that really mean? Where does he stand in the hierarchy of High 6-A? Are his hax really good by High 6-A standards or are they just meh?

Let's say you're completely new to this site and you take a look at Superman's profile. He's 4-B, he has a lot of powers and resistances, etc but you have no idea what that means by the standards of 4-B. You see he beats Kharn via comparable skill and versatility, go to Kharn's profile and see he has a few wins on his profile. Guess Supes is pretty skilled and versatile for 4-B. Then you start to look at Kharn's and Superman's other matches and you start understand how their powers and skills stack up to other characters. As you go through their wins and losses, you start to see where these two truly stand in their tier. Both Kharn and Supes are pretty good 4-Bs but they're not unbeatable. Kharn has power null, but it doesn't save him from all situations. Supes has lots of resistances, but not enough to deal with every conceivable situation.

As for stomp matches, I'd argue those are rejected to prevent the problem of "matches that only exist to give characters wins". Remember when Goku had a bunch of losses? People could just take a character they loved and put them against people that stand no chance against them to pad their win record.

The point of this wiki is to give measure characters powers and abilities, but all the classifications and tie tierings in the world mean nothing without context. Matches exist to provide that context. Does this always work? Probably not. Does it create issue? Most definitely. I'm not here to throw my hat into the ring over this issue. I'm just explaining why I think it's a thing in the first place.
 
Adding matches, you ask? Well, it helps to have a comparative of how fair a character can perform in different scenarios, it´s quite entertaining, especially for a casual visitor to the site.
 
Wright I ******* love you, and you are my spirit animal for making this post.

Regardless, versus threads can still occur without adding matches, so people can find out who beats who in a comfortable light

That said finding other characters and seeing who best who is a god point and I can concede there.
 
Absolutely.

Something I learned awhile back is that all this stomp talk ended up draining the one thing this is about

Fun

In fact, since I realize that, I've deliberately glossed over matches with a bit of one sidedness, as I knew ultimately it doesn't add anything

I think we could easily improve the experience by removing matchup additions.
 
Bobsican said:
Adding matches, you ask? Well, it helps to have a comparative of how fair a character can perform in different scenarios, it´s quite entertaining, especially for a casual visitor to the site.
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Which can still be done, it just won't be added.

You don't need to add a match to see who would beat who, I think your kinda missing the point.

A match, can still be done, debated, see where that character stands amongst the other

Adding the match, is a whole other issue.
 
Adding the match is like a hall of fame, it´s meant to be there as a reliable fair record list.
 
You know, I agree with Cal. Maybe I look like a new user since I don't participate much here but I liked this thing (the matches) since I found that image of Ganta being mocked for looking like the Demi-Fiend.

Originally I came here looking for my fav characters and how they could compete against other and there is when I found that you actually make matches that can be added wich, like you said, gave "wins" to those characters is like you know what can X character face and what he can't.

Anyways, my english isn't the best so to sumarize: Adding matches to the profiles gives you a general (and most of the time pretty accurate) idea of how strong that character is and what he/she/it can face in a fair battle.

Without adding battles I can asure you that vs battles threads are going to lose a lot of attention.
 
I'd like to have some reasons beyond I agree with Cal guys.

Same for those who simply agree without giving points as to why they should be removed
 
And it will ALWAYS suck, Im not being pessimistic but it's simply not a policy that can be effectively changed.
 
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