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Why DO we add matches to profiles?
- Thread starter Schnee_One
- Start date
- Status
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Also alot of these battle threads help find issues with profiles, such as justifications that make no sense and unwarranted powers and abilities. They actually somewhat help keep profiles up to date because everyone wants a stronger character funny enough.
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One of the reasons I enjoy having the matches added and this is a perspective of a long time user recently started posting. It allows you to sort of go down a rabbit hole of sorts. You get interested in a character and their abilities and having match ups added allows it to be so much clearer what type of characters can defeat X character or what type of abilities counter said characters. This would be infinitely less clear if you had to sift through all of the versus threads to find this information.
Just my two cents, I am sort of on the fence with this one.
Just my two cents, I am sort of on the fence with this one.
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I wonder the percentage of people don't even know what the reasons above are.The real cal howard said:
Threads like voting request threads are also an issue.
But that's another story for another thread.
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Indeed (I try to have a good read of the reasoning but it is a prevalent problem.)
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I'll throw my two cents here and explain why I vehemently disagree with this change.
So imagine you're playing any fighting game, and you have a practice mode. You're constantly training on what your character can do, but the catch is, that fighting game has no versus mode, no online mode, no arcade mode, and pretty much nothing else aside from just practice mode. Without some of the main things that essentially makes fighting games fun, why even bother playing those games if you're never going to test your skills against anyone at all??
The same can be said for vs debating. The profiles we have are essentially our "training mode" where in this context, we "train" by doing research on what the characters can do, and how strong they are. The vs threads are essentially the "versus mode/arcade modes", where you're "testing your skills" by debating with your research on who can win. and you have the notable victories/losses as your "scoreboard" essentially showing how well your "skills" have been. That's arguably one of the funnest things about vs debating in general. If you take that away, and just have the profiles, then why even bother doing the profiles if you're not going to actually have a meaningful debate on who would win.
Heck, the main reason I joined this wiki in the first place was the sheer fact that you can actually make vs matches and argue on who would win in a fight. Without vs threads, I doubt I'd even show up in this wiki to begin with cause just making profiles for the sake of it without doing any meaningful debate would lose its interest very fast. Not to mention the whole thing Kal mentioned about how vs threads are arguably as popular as the profiles we have.
Now granted, we do have some issues with the whole voting aspect, and I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't part of those people who just votes for whatever person without giving any meaningful input on the discussion at hand, but that's a whole nother can of worms.
So imagine you're playing any fighting game, and you have a practice mode. You're constantly training on what your character can do, but the catch is, that fighting game has no versus mode, no online mode, no arcade mode, and pretty much nothing else aside from just practice mode. Without some of the main things that essentially makes fighting games fun, why even bother playing those games if you're never going to test your skills against anyone at all??
The same can be said for vs debating. The profiles we have are essentially our "training mode" where in this context, we "train" by doing research on what the characters can do, and how strong they are. The vs threads are essentially the "versus mode/arcade modes", where you're "testing your skills" by debating with your research on who can win. and you have the notable victories/losses as your "scoreboard" essentially showing how well your "skills" have been. That's arguably one of the funnest things about vs debating in general. If you take that away, and just have the profiles, then why even bother doing the profiles if you're not going to actually have a meaningful debate on who would win.
Heck, the main reason I joined this wiki in the first place was the sheer fact that you can actually make vs matches and argue on who would win in a fight. Without vs threads, I doubt I'd even show up in this wiki to begin with cause just making profiles for the sake of it without doing any meaningful debate would lose its interest very fast. Not to mention the whole thing Kal mentioned about how vs threads are arguably as popular as the profiles we have.
Now granted, we do have some issues with the whole voting aspect, and I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't part of those people who just votes for whatever person without giving any meaningful input on the discussion at hand, but that's a whole nother can of worms.
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I mean it's hard enough to get enough people to reply to get 7 votes currently. It's not like Ant is overwhelmed over there on the 'vs match up removal' thread. There are so many interesting vs match ups threads that are currently necroed due to inactivity from posters.
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Right, lemme explain to you why, outside of the already massive problem of actually applying this change to the 18k+ pages we have on here, this is so wrong.
Many VS debates can become a project in of themselves. Like, debating about it can nom away the better part of an afternoon for people, and that's by no means an exaggeration nor uncommon. When the match is finally concluded and added to the respective profiles, it can provide a sense of pride and accomplishment to any user who participated in such a way in the thread, or Hell, even any user who contributed the slightest bit.
Removing match adding completely takes away that incentive to debate, to see your characters win or lose and have that record be kept by the wiki itself, instead of you. That is why I vehemently oppose this change.
Many VS debates can become a project in of themselves. Like, debating about it can nom away the better part of an afternoon for people, and that's by no means an exaggeration nor uncommon. When the match is finally concluded and added to the respective profiles, it can provide a sense of pride and accomplishment to any user who participated in such a way in the thread, or Hell, even any user who contributed the slightest bit.
Removing match adding completely takes away that incentive to debate, to see your characters win or lose and have that record be kept by the wiki itself, instead of you. That is why I vehemently oppose this change.
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I myself also disagree with removing it, this like removing your identities for fairness/goodness shake which is "empty".
What i mean is, thinking your identity, now you want to removing major aspect of your identity, and now you're remove it and goes carry on for fairness and goodness, however you can felt something is not right, something that you feels so empty inside. Now applied to this site, removing the match up addition on every profiles, and afterwards something is not right. We are not we without our unique aspect, same with VSB, VSB is not VSB without this aspect (match-up addition). Heck, without this addition match up we might not known Violet Evergarden, Thunder McQueen, Mami Tomoe, and some of underrated servants from fate series.
That's all what i need to say, everything already sum it up above by the other who opposite this, and sorry for my english, Indonesia folks :v
What i mean is, thinking your identity, now you want to removing major aspect of your identity, and now you're remove it and goes carry on for fairness and goodness, however you can felt something is not right, something that you feels so empty inside. Now applied to this site, removing the match up addition on every profiles, and afterwards something is not right. We are not we without our unique aspect, same with VSB, VSB is not VSB without this aspect (match-up addition). Heck, without this addition match up we might not known Violet Evergarden, Thunder McQueen, Mami Tomoe, and some of underrated servants from fate series.
That's all what i need to say, everything already sum it up above by the other who opposite this, and sorry for my english, Indonesia folks :v
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I would explain why i disagree with this, but a lot of people already gave really good reasons as to why.
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I have to agree with this.
As much as I detest SpaceBattles, many of the matches there did get a lot more attention than most of the matches here. Even if said characters are a bit obscure.
As much as I detest SpaceBattles, many of the matches there did get a lot more attention than most of the matches here. Even if said characters are a bit obscure.
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At first, i thought this would be controversial, glad to see its clearing Up fast, i agree with Cal and other with his same opinion, we shouldnt remove them, but we should make more constructive debates, not one argument and 7 votes that say "FRA" this would be more interesting.
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Yeah the 7 FRA votes thing really needs to change. It's always frusturating when there's a really thoughtfull discussion on a thread, but nobody cares enough to give all 7 votes
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I kinda understood that, also what this guy is saying is quite simple, he means that removing matches from this site is going to make it quite empty and uhhh kinda takes away the purpose of having character stats in this site when you can't use them in a debate.
Plus this is a very radical change and it's almost like taking the wheels off of a car and expecting it to be useful, there's a reason why these pages for characters exist, to use them in a debate and compare power levels, see who wins, etc.
Plus this is a very radical change and it's almost like taking the wheels off of a car and expecting it to be useful, there's a reason why these pages for characters exist, to use them in a debate and compare power levels, see who wins, etc.
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Thanks X, for the support. I afraid my comment is not helpful because the grammar and engrish thing.
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I can totally relate with this post, to be honest. It may sound stupid, but this place actually taught me a couple of things, as well as helped me meet some of the nicest people.The Wright Way said:
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As of this thread, I disagree with OP's proposal for reasons presented by many people above, including Kal & Glass.
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- Thread starter
- #139
I....Never proposed anything though.
People seem to think I want matches removed, I simply asked "Why?"
People seem to think I want matches removed, I simply asked "Why?"
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Well considering the fact that the first few comments were essentially saying they agree with removing the matches altogether rather than discuss why they're there in the first place. It sounds like a proposal to some.
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Eh, Glass has a point there
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Many people have given their reasonings for whether or not versus debates should be removed or not from the profiles, and here's mine.
When I first found this wiki, it was through a match that Cal had created, titled "Freddy Fazbear vs. Bambi." It was such a bizarre matchup, that I knew I wanted to take a crack at it. Luckily, I had a Wikia/FANDOM account from when I was making active contributions to the Regular Show Wiki and the Lilo & Stitch Wiki, so I signed into my old account, and started on some research.
First, I studied Freddy's profile, applying the knowledge I had from both experiencing the games and from watching AnimationRewind's Cartoon Fight Club series, as well as the information on the profile itself. Next, I studied on Bambi, and went as far as to study through Google how fast and how strong an adult white-tailed deer was. Finally, I wrote down my thoughts on the thread, noting how each character fared in their strength, speed, durability and intelligence. And overall, every edge that I could find showed that Freddy did have a slight lead over Bambi in everything, so I gave my vote to Freddy.
And when the results were finalized, with many people jumping behind my reasoning and complimenting me for such a detailed description of everything in the debate, I felt really confident in my abilities as a debater. And, whenever I visited Freddy's profile to potentially scout for another match or try to remind myself of his statistics for someone else's debate, I could always see the match that had brought me to this site underneath the Notable Victories section, and it continued to ensure me that I was on the right track with being a debater, and it leaves a smile on my face every time.
So, while the match may have been removed due to the majority of FNAF being upgraded to 9-B thanks to a CRT, my point still stands. Adding matchups to the different profiles is one of the core elements of this site that makes it so appealing to many people, and is also one of the most enjoyable moments of debating on a site. Yes, I understand that stomp threads, spite threads and the toxicity it breeds is a problem for this site. And people may get a bit of a superiority complex when a character they like gets a bunch of wins and is seemingly untouchable, and likewise becomes extremely salty when a character they like gets loss after loss.
But as has been said before, that's just simply a part of the game we play, because at the end of the day, it is a game. Something that we don't have to do, but we do it anyway because it's fun. And when you see Freddy Fazbear having that ridiculous win over Bambi, it proves something more lasting than just saying so and having it become almost immediately forgotten by everyone afterward. By having these debates listed on these profiles, you show that this debate not only exists, but has had a rational conclusion that was reached when many like minded and not-so-like minded individuals came together to discuss the many different aspects of the debate. It's a core element to VS Battles Wiki, and I, for one, would be very despondent if this came to pass.
When I first found this wiki, it was through a match that Cal had created, titled "Freddy Fazbear vs. Bambi." It was such a bizarre matchup, that I knew I wanted to take a crack at it. Luckily, I had a Wikia/FANDOM account from when I was making active contributions to the Regular Show Wiki and the Lilo & Stitch Wiki, so I signed into my old account, and started on some research.
First, I studied Freddy's profile, applying the knowledge I had from both experiencing the games and from watching AnimationRewind's Cartoon Fight Club series, as well as the information on the profile itself. Next, I studied on Bambi, and went as far as to study through Google how fast and how strong an adult white-tailed deer was. Finally, I wrote down my thoughts on the thread, noting how each character fared in their strength, speed, durability and intelligence. And overall, every edge that I could find showed that Freddy did have a slight lead over Bambi in everything, so I gave my vote to Freddy.
And when the results were finalized, with many people jumping behind my reasoning and complimenting me for such a detailed description of everything in the debate, I felt really confident in my abilities as a debater. And, whenever I visited Freddy's profile to potentially scout for another match or try to remind myself of his statistics for someone else's debate, I could always see the match that had brought me to this site underneath the Notable Victories section, and it continued to ensure me that I was on the right track with being a debater, and it leaves a smile on my face every time.
So, while the match may have been removed due to the majority of FNAF being upgraded to 9-B thanks to a CRT, my point still stands. Adding matchups to the different profiles is one of the core elements of this site that makes it so appealing to many people, and is also one of the most enjoyable moments of debating on a site. Yes, I understand that stomp threads, spite threads and the toxicity it breeds is a problem for this site. And people may get a bit of a superiority complex when a character they like gets a bunch of wins and is seemingly untouchable, and likewise becomes extremely salty when a character they like gets loss after loss.
But as has been said before, that's just simply a part of the game we play, because at the end of the day, it is a game. Something that we don't have to do, but we do it anyway because it's fun. And when you see Freddy Fazbear having that ridiculous win over Bambi, it proves something more lasting than just saying so and having it become almost immediately forgotten by everyone afterward. By having these debates listed on these profiles, you show that this debate not only exists, but has had a rational conclusion that was reached when many like minded and not-so-like minded individuals came together to discuss the many different aspects of the debate. It's a core element to VS Battles Wiki, and I, for one, would be very despondent if this came to pass.
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I forgot I made Freddy Fazbear vs Bambi, nor did I expect it to have such a big impact lol.
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I 100% agree with Glassy here. The Win/Lose section is nothing more than a scoreboard for many of the active debaters here. Sure, they will lead to toxicity, but this is the fondation of competition. You can ask "Why do games like League of Legends for example feature a ranked system. They contribute nothing to the overal game experience and only lead to toxicity", but the catch is that they actually DO contribute to the game experience.
Humans are simply a competitve race. Basic biology, so i hopefully dont need to explain why. And in modern times, the only way to live out that competitiveness is either through sports or tournaments of all sorts. Why do you think awards and co exists for winners? To further drive the winner AND loser alike into new hights. The winner feels rewarded, the loser gets a sense of envy, giving them more reasons to become better. The same applys for debates. Sure, you can debate for fun like you can play soccer with your friends for fun. And sure, they might be enough to be your sense of reward, like winning more and more against a fierce rival. But this only works in smaller groups. This is a open community. Hundrets of different potential debaters are on this wiki. Competition is now way more fierce and now just winning might not be enough to match it. You want some kind of reward. And seeing your hard debated match recorded on your favourie character is some form of reward. The same way some colored frame in League of Legends is reward enough for people.
This is maybe not that noteable in the short run. In the long run though, competition leads to more fun and harder debates. Stagnation because there is no reason to improve due to the lack of award will kill debating slowly.
To round up what i said, debating without adding it will only have recognition as a reward. Allowing match ups to be added adds a double layer of drive. You want to see wins on your favourite character, thus you improve yourself and the profile. You dont want to see loses on your favourite characters, thus you improve yourself and the profile. Will this lead to petty squabble? Totally. Will this lead to cheating like wank and scan forging? Yes, the same way some medals will lead people to dope themself. But like sport. We have rules against such behavior, rules already discouraging that.
Humans are simply a competitve race. Basic biology, so i hopefully dont need to explain why. And in modern times, the only way to live out that competitiveness is either through sports or tournaments of all sorts. Why do you think awards and co exists for winners? To further drive the winner AND loser alike into new hights. The winner feels rewarded, the loser gets a sense of envy, giving them more reasons to become better. The same applys for debates. Sure, you can debate for fun like you can play soccer with your friends for fun. And sure, they might be enough to be your sense of reward, like winning more and more against a fierce rival. But this only works in smaller groups. This is a open community. Hundrets of different potential debaters are on this wiki. Competition is now way more fierce and now just winning might not be enough to match it. You want some kind of reward. And seeing your hard debated match recorded on your favourie character is some form of reward. The same way some colored frame in League of Legends is reward enough for people.
This is maybe not that noteable in the short run. In the long run though, competition leads to more fun and harder debates. Stagnation because there is no reason to improve due to the lack of award will kill debating slowly.
To round up what i said, debating without adding it will only have recognition as a reward. Allowing match ups to be added adds a double layer of drive. You want to see wins on your favourite character, thus you improve yourself and the profile. You dont want to see loses on your favourite characters, thus you improve yourself and the profile. Will this lead to petty squabble? Totally. Will this lead to cheating like wank and scan forging? Yes, the same way some medals will lead people to dope themself. But like sport. We have rules against such behavior, rules already discouraging that.
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@Cal
To be honest, you didn't seem to put much effort into making it regardless.
To be honest, you didn't seem to put much effort into making it regardless.
The real cal howard said:
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Well, perhaps this was already mentioned and debunked, but a character's record could be a good gateway to understand his abilities in context. I mean, one can check the profiles to see what they can do and how powerful they are, but when they see their record they may spot a victory or loss that draws their attention and go check out how it happened, there he can find out how his abilities measure up against others' and find out more about the opponent, finally deciding to go check out the other character and find more info. Or perhaps disagree with the information on the thread and go for a CRT.
I can't really argue for competition and such, but I do believe the records are a lead for users to find out more.
I can't really argue for competition and such, but I do believe the records are a lead for users to find out more.
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To answer the first post, we add them because it has been a convention since even before I joined this wiki, and because many of our members consider them fun, like a sport, and would leave if we did not feature them, as you can see from many of the replies here.
Do I personally take them seriously? No, but given that they are important to many of our staff and regular members alike, and it would constitute an enormous wiki revision project to remove them, for negative gain, I think that they should remain.
Do I personally take them seriously? No, but given that they are important to many of our staff and regular members alike, and it would constitute an enormous wiki revision project to remove them, for negative gain, I think that they should remain.
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Matches stay FRA
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Up to Schnee tbh, if he want then yes this should be closed.
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- Thread starter
- #154
Yes
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