Why DO we add matches to profiles?

[Yobo_Blue]

It just does. If you want us to start measuring and dissecting human desire and understanding of appeal, you're in the wrong place.

 

[Schnee_One]

Regardless, I need to sleep.

How this thread goes is up to the people arguing, and it isn't something that can really be changed it seems.

@Yo Though I will say that I'm not quite understanding what you mean.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Good night

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I know we say we're an indexing wiki, because that's what we'd like to believe. But being honest, that's just how we perceive ourselves. We're just as much a debating wiki as we are an indexing wiki, because that's how we're perceived by people outside our circle. We're not a closed community with about a hundred members, but an open community who mostly lurk around. Decisions made aren't about what's most practical for our small circle but what the wider audience would appreciate. Remember that.

 

[Uninown]

I'm not really active, nor on OBD or other versus debating wikis aside from FC/OC, but, even if i want to stay neutral, i'm inclined to disagree with this decision.

Perhaps my point has been already been debunked or already mentioned above, but i'll still drop it as it is my opinion and point of view.

This decision would probably provide a backslash to the wiki if applied. Let's be honest, a great amount of users just drop in to see their indexed characters P&A, techniques, etc etc. But some also only wander around to see the character's win/loss ratio as well as inconclusive matches. I feel the amount of users that do this is tremendous and would be counterproductive to perform this decision. We can talk about numbers; a lot of members may leave, either inactives or really active ones with this change. A decision as big as this one can led to good or bad changes, but as what i see, this may not be the best just for the sake of "professionalism".

For myself, i would still stay on this wiki and other sister/brother ones related to it, but, honestly, i would really miss it. Those kind of things encourages the use of that character on versus debating, and it would leave a hollow space that you wouldn't know if the character is either extremely used or the opposite.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Schnee

As it stands, people like the space, and in reality if we really want to improve "fun" or "enjoyment," this is very counter productive. We're not here to dictate what people consider "appealing", just to facilitate enough to keep it that "fun."

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

While Schnee makes some good points....I see this as a change that really isn't worth it. As such I disagree with removing it. Also, yes we are an indexing wiki....but our Vs Battles are just as popular and just as important.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's also hard to be considered just an indexing wiki when "Vs Battles" is literally the name of the site....

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

What Cal said about that really sums up that entire argument tbh

We can call ourselves an indexing site as much as we want, but Vs Battles is in the name for a reason

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I'm just going to come out and say this. I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring. 90% of the reason I'm here is because of the adding matches to pages thing. If my favorite character wins, then I feel good about myself. If they don't, then it's a semi-permanent wound to my pride that I now have to overcome, allowing me to grow up and become a better person in the process.

In a way, this wiki really has helped me grow. I used to come here as a biased Undertale fanboy, but as I made friends, developed new interests, and got to see both sides of an argument, I managed to grow out of the phase. I'm not perfect, no. I'm still biased and temperamental sometimes and I make some pretty stupid mistakes on occasion (like that time I got locked out of my account when I got a new phone and nearly got my sock banned over it.) But I've continued to grow. Each outburst teaches me to mind my temper and, back on topic, each loss has helped me control my pride. Without the matches, a large part of this wiki, hobby, and community that I've grown to love and that has helped me grow would be gone. I understand it has problems that can only be improved so much and are hard to ignore. But, in the same way I love Steven Universe despite it's problems I love this site's system despite its problems. No system is perfect, it just depends on what a person is looking for and this site is currently what I'm looking for.

Side note, but it's also one of the easiest ways for mobile users to directly access the forums, at least in my experience.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I definitely agree with everything you said, you sir, read my mind like an open book.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I actually agree with Schnee here. I think that adding matches is rather pointless and unprofessional but I doubt it'll change.

Having heard disparate opinions from Fate Albane, Assaltwaffle, The Wright Way and Cal Howard, I am revoking this statement.

There is an actual valid in listing noteworthy Vs Threads on profiles.

Though, if possible, I would like that it was encouraged for only actually interesting and Notable Threads to be listed. Not one argument and 7 posts of "FRA" threads.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Those are generally not added for other reasons if i recall correctly, like generally being stomps with no one pointing it out or something similar

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Having heard disparate opinions from Fate Albane, Assaltwaffle, The Wright Way and Cal Howard, I am revoking this statement.

There is an actual valid in listing noteworthy Vs Threads on profiles.

Though, if possible, I would like that it was encouraged for only actually interesting and Notable Threads to be listed. Not one argument and 7 posts of "FRA" threads.

I'm pretty sure that would remove about 90% of Star Wars matches. Not against the idea, just making a note.

 

[AguilaR101]

Star War matches are boring anyways, not a loss.

 

[Xmark12]

I was thinking that, to prevent "FRA" spams, everyone should at least put a reason why a character should win/lose/incon.

Like, it can be similar to the other arguments, and you can still agree with someone, but it's recommended to be something that could potentially be new to the table and bring about better debates.

To me, FRA should be banned unless in a case by case basis, forcing people to actually make their own arguments.

Edit: That said, I disagree with the OP. Profiles should still have win/los/incon records. It's just that to prevent FRA spams, I propose the above idea, or maybe different ideas.

 

[Kaltias]

I overall disagree.

The "is this a stomp?" debate absolutely kills the fun and is widely used by people only for the sake of a match being added/not added, and it's also true that spite matches can be a problem.

However, that's because, as Yobo said, it's like making it "official". People care about that, and a bunch of them will debate for that reason. Not adding matches would significantly diminish the activity of the vs threads.

Last but not least, "we are an indexing wiki" doesn't mean that vs matches are not important to us, at all.

We are popular for multiple reasons, but "people are interested in vs threads" is absolutely one of the main ones. So many people here started contributing in a vs thread that it isn't even funny. I'd be sincerely surprised if most of the staff remained, if you had to remove the "people who joined due to vs threads". I can tell you for sure that I wouldn't be here if you did

 

[Uninown]

I was thinking that, to prevent "FRA" spams, everyone should at least put a reason why a character should win/lose/incon.
Like, it can be similar to the other arguments, and you can still agree with someone, but it's recommended to be something that could potentially be new to the table and bring about better debates.

To me, FRA should be banned unless in a case by case basis, forcing people to actually make their own arguments.

Edit: That said, I disagree with the OP. Profiles should still have win/los/incon records. It's just that to prevent FRA spams, I propose the above idea, or maybe different ideas.

^ This. Please.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I can vouch that while I lurked for a while, the sole reason I made an account was to defend Kirby in a Kirby vs Buu match.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's also worth noting the section also helps promote profiles that aren't from standard mainstream verses as well.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I don't think FRA should be banned altogether, as at a certain point people would be redundantly stating the same arguments without adding anything noteworthy.

 

[Wokistan]

I disagree with not having match additions, but won't be able to explain why for a while since it's late rn.

 

[Crzer07]

Thing is most of the "voters" and "debators" either know one side of the character of a match at best or don't know any of them and just go "FRA" to whichever reason most appealing or available on the characters they like/familiar with, skewing the accuracy and reliability of it. Even though I admit the idea is interesting however I question the legitimacy of them and are rendered moot to begin with. As it stands we might as well just have a poll and freely vote instead than seeing a bunch of repeated posts agreeing with whoever. If the priority of it is to be interesting and entertaining before accuracy.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

FRA is a problem. I have nothing else to say about it.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with cal

Also on the subject of banning FRAs I'll say what i said on the thread made about this before

That just limits the potential for many people to vote

If one person comes in at the start of a thread and says every possible way a character can win and FRAs are banned then no one else can vote for that character

Reiterating the reasons someone else listed is literally what FRAs are it's just saying that you agree with the reasoning another person made They are also useful when someone doesn't really know much about a character but they agree with the points someone brings up

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I feel like the whole "Seven votes" thing should be removed and a debate is only concluded when it actually concludes. That'd remove a ton of problems.

I assume you've never been on something like comicvine where threads can last years on end because there is no conceding from either side or any way for a thread to conclude. Do you want to argue a battle for years?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I agree with cal

Also on the subject of banning FRAs I'll say what i said on the thread made about this before

That just limits the potential for many people to vote

If one person comes in at the start of a thread and says every possible way a character can win and FRAs are banned then no one else can vote for that character

Reiterating the reasons someone else listed is literally what FRAs are it's just saying that you agree with the reasoning another person made They are also useful when someone doesn't really know much about a character but they agree with the points someone brings up

Or they could just repeat what someone else said. Nothing's stopping them.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean

copy-pasting the previous votes is basically the same as "X for X's reasons" except it takes up more space

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean

copy-pasting the previous votes is basically the same as "X for X's reasons" except it takes up more space

At least it forces you acknowledge the reasons, rather than just say FRA for whichever character you like more.

 

[Jinsye]

"X for X's reasons" does the same and it takes up less space

 

[The_Wright_Way]

"X for X's reasons" does the same and it takes up less space

Fair enough.

 

[Wokistan]

This isn't really a thread about FRA but making huge wuotes on people is the same thing but more obnoxious. OPs and mods should just be more active in rejecting FRAs based on nothing or before opposition even shows up. We extended Grace period to every match including unanimous ones, which means that everyone had a full day minimum for their guy.

At worst just go type a wall of text in the removal thread about why a match is bad, or just do a rematch.

 

[Jackythejack]

Wait we can do rematches??

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait we can do rematches??

Yeah

For example, Saiyan Saga Goku vs Mega Rayquaza. Goku won the first match, I remade the match, and Rayquaza won the sequel.

 

[Jackythejack]

Oh, huh...

Is that like only after revisions are made or can you do the same match but using different tiers?

 

[Kaltias]

Also, another important thing is that vs matches lead to CRTs.

Either because people want to see their characters winning, or because they found out that a stat/power was wrong while looking at a vs thread, and someone told them "go make a CRT"

 

[Xmark12]

Yeah, wins/losses/incons lead to incentives for debating. Incentives lead to competition. Competition leads to innovation. Innovation leads to better products (In this case CRTs and better profiles).

Simple economics.

 

[Hellbeast1]

True (I'm guilty of this unfortuanately but trying to improve lol)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Also, another important thing is that vs matches lead to CRTs.

Either because people want to see their characters winning, or because they found out that a stat/power was wrong while looking at a vs thread, and someone told them "go make a CRT"

I have several gripes with this being an accepted thing that goes on, but that's another can of worms.
Anyway...I still don't see why VS battles can't exist without matchup additions, but I suppose a few other fair points have been made.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

If the additions are legit I see no issue. I only learned how the site worked because I made one of those CRT's in the first place.