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Jonathan Joestar fights a different type of Monster (8-3-0)

TheArsenal1212

TheArsenal1212

6,497
404
Gold Ol' Jonathan Joestar (best jojo IMO)

This time he faces a newly upgraded opponent

Speed Equalised, otherwise SBA rules

Jonathan Joestar: 8 (TacticalNuke002, Lapitus, xta, standuser, Sixo, Sir, User, Winston)

Chelshia: 3 (Jackythejack, Litentric Teon, TheMasculineMineta)

Inconclusive/Tie: 0
 
Aaaah my girl!

Now time to get interesting here. That low-mid is gonna be a real problem for Jonathan, but how does his mind manipulation work exactly? I'm curious as to that because that could control the fight.
 
Im not quite sure it would work in this instance. It's not your typical Mewtwo mind control and he doesn't really use it against anyone in a fight
 
I meant it's gonna be a problem for Chelshia my bad. What does he normally start with? It's good to note that he can actually tank more than Chelshia can normally dish out. Though she can easily just kind

ora ora ora ora him considering she did that to the final boss, and keep him at a range with saucy shot. I feel she has the plus in mobility as she can double jump around him and take to the skies, albeit very limited. She still probably beats him in mobility, one of her punch moves is literally go fast, and if she needs to she can crush him with a weight, or disorient him and catch him off his feet by shaking the ground a little. Her main problem would likely be that regen, though...
 
It's touch because if Chelshia for example breaks his neck, Jonathan just regens from it, broken bones aren't an issues for him

Jack, you know more about monster girl than me. How would she deal with a hamon punch to the head? Would she melt or take it well
 
Her building level is on its own. Berserker more just times it by three.

What does a hamon punch do again? Does that focus on vibrations or what? I thought it had something to do with vibrations I'm probably wrong
 
Jonathan is definitely smarter no doubt about that

Yeah Jack it's hard to explain but yeah and of course the power of the sun
 
Chelshia has taken hits from vibrations of vibration based attacks before, considering DJ Doroko focuses a lot of her sound based attacks, so that's nothing she shouldn't be able to handle. On top of that she can move around in a volcano without getting heat stroke so I doubt hamon heat if that's a thing will be a problem. Besides if she goes into her chest before he attacks he might just hurt himself hitting that damn thing.

She can even charge saucy shot while in the chest, I figured out, so while not in character right away, if her back was against the wall she could do so.
 
Well I mean...I'd say it wasn't a vote but I think she could do it. If push comes to shove she can just chest into saucy shot him for days as it doesn't take that long to recover.

His regen is...automatic, then? Or based off touch or..? I'm assuming it's weird hamon stuff but eh
 
It's not actual vibration though, I think the page describes it better than I could.

"Hamon/Ripple/Sendo: Hamon/the Ripple/Sendo is a form of energy that relies on breathing techniques to replicate the power of the Sun. It can be used to enhance physical attributes, heal wounds, and acts as both an offensive and defensive tool."

It should also be known (which it also says on his page) that outside forces can interrupt his proper breathing rhythm which would stop his Hamon.
 
It's hamon stuff. He doesn't just regen passively, he's gotta actually do it himself which leaves him open. Plus he never takes that risk in a fight so he'll just be taking damage. Plus it's not like he has much of a range game
 
Oh then yeah Chelshia takes this due to superior range and the almost stupid tactic of running in and punching as fast as she can, as well as being able to fall back on the chest.

basicaly, Johnathan gets

ORAORAORAORAORAORA'd
 
Are her punches and saucy shot comparable in strength though?

Getting within his striking range would be extremely risky, because he would only need one strike to mind control her like he did to Wang Chan, which would at least stop her long enough for him to land a fight ending blow.
 
Saucy shot is actually stronger than her normal punches as they one shot opponents she normally wouldn't be able to one punch. So she actually would definitely use them if she finds out going in for punches is risky, and nothing can ever stop her from charging up her saucy shot except maybe getting hit, and even then she's got the mobility with her dash punch and wings as well as her chest to avoid that.
 
But would she be smart enough to start the fight with it? You said she would use them if she finds out going in would be risky, but how else would she find out that other than actually attempting to go in?
 
While she normally would start out with punching, she still has a variety of moves that can start off fights. Nothing stops her from charging up a saucy shot first to do some initial damage, which would likely be just as in character, before dashing in with her fist and overwhelming him.

Or she could dash in and before he gets a good hit dash out of the way? She still doesn't wanna get hurt obviously and during her fight with the monster captain saucy shot would be one of the main ways to fight her.

Also I was told Johnathan didn't rely much on the mind control?
 
If it ain't his go to tactic I doubt it'd be his starting move either, especially at the beginning of the fight. They're not bloodlusted. Chelshia would run up, punch him a couple times by just ramming into him at full speed, get hit once, realize that it actually hurts a lot and then dash and jump away while using saucy shot, which is more powerful than all of her punches to the point where it one shots enemies she has to punch three times
 
Alright, that makes sense. Based on the profiles, I don't think she could actually overwhelm without going Berserker Mode though it also opens her up to taking more damage (literally doubling it).

How would she do that when speed is equalized? Her profile says Saucy Shot takes a while to charge, so how would she be able to spam that anyways without Jonathan closing the distance? He is quite intelligent after all and wouldn't miss an opening like that.

He didn't use it (or even imply he knew he could) until his encounter with Wang and Dio on the boat. If he had lived to have more fights, he probably would've used it more often.
 
Her main attack is literally dashing away, though. Couldn't she do that to just keep running? Besides by a while it's actually like three or so seconds and it also has knockback on it. She could literally keep knocking him back and by the time he makes up the distance she has another shot ready to hit him directly in the face. Chelshia May be of average intelligence but she's not stupid enough to let someone get so close to her, especially if she can just jump over Jonathan. She has many ways to just outmaneuver him.

Also wouldn't that using mind trick depend on the key then? Do the keys depend on his point in life or not? Because if so that changed things quite a bit as well. Either way if he tries to hit her she could just go into a chest, which makes her practically invulnerable to anything except lava and spikes. If she sees Johnathan charging up for an attack, she's still gonna avoid it, and turning into a chest is instant if I recall correctly, if not instant it's fast enough for him to not hit her.
 
I'm not sure on the AP difference between the two, but I'm assuming they're pretty close.

Johnathan's best chance seems to be severely injuring if not one shotting with Hamon.

Chelsia has the advantage basically everywhere else, except perhaps skill. She has more mobility with her double jump/limited flight, actual ranged attacks she can spam, a way to be practically invincible, and a way to increase her strength three times over at the cost of taking double the damage.

Chelsia just seems to have more advantages here. Especially since Johnathan's regen isn't passive, which would've been his saving grace.

Vote goes to Chelsia.
 
Gotcha. So I guess, if anything, he'll be doing less damage than I initially thought if and when he gets close. So my vote will stay the same.
 
I can't find anything that says the dash includes multiple hits though, which is what I was referring. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I don't think she would be able to dash, then land multiple hits. I can imagine one hit due to surprise, but not multiple.

As for Saucy Shot, after getting hit once he should be able to dodge the rest unless it somehow lowers his mobility (through injury or whatnot). For her to "keep knocking him back" that would require the ability to actually hit, but given the 3 second charge up would allow him to aim dodge. Jumping over him wouldn't really work though, since Hamon also allows him to increase his own jumping height.

Yes, but since SBA rules are being used it's the right key. So that changes nothing. Going into the chest itself may be instant, but that doesn't make her reaction speed instant.
 
Well no that doesn't but she can still punch really damn fast so I dunno if that matters much. She can and should still be able to dash away from Jonathan if he makes any sudden moves. If speed is equalized they're reactions should be equal.

Heck even further on the range game she should be able to just punch the air and spawn a fireball that's going to burn him, at least until he gets a hit in.

How high does his jump height get increased? Chelshia can jump several times her height, I know that much. Besides she still should be able to react fast enough to get into the chest due to speed being equalized. Heck she could jump over him and literally crush him with the chest as well because of how versatile it is.

Nothing also stops her from punching him into the air, doing what I showed off in the gif above, or both. She can unleash a lot of punches, her final boss fight shows this with the end cutscene. It's silly to say she shouldn't be able to do that normally.
 
Jonathan holds the AP advantage here, seeing how he was comparable to Dio, who was vastly above Tarkus, who scales to 756 kgs of TNT. He himself also utterly trivialized Tarkus and broke a metal collar Tarkus admitted he didn't have the strength to break. Spamming punches really fast doesn't matter when that's his own move, just he has the actual fighting skill above hers and the AP. That sounds like broken fingers.

For another, Saucy Shot still needs time to charge. And seeing how they are gonna be in Central Park, there's lots of terrain and cover for him to retreat into if he needs or wants to trying to make her chase, not to mention she can't launch fireballs if she isn't at full HP. The first decent punch, which is likely with her not knowing what to expect, and that option is out.

Falling as a chest to crush is not gonna hurt him too much with the AP difference, and with speed equal he can just evade it and attack after she turns back. And AP difference, plus higher fighting skill and ability, plus speed equal makes it unlikely she punches him into the air.

Finally, I'd have to look for a scene of him jumping high, but as far as I remember he can cover his height at the very least easily. And even not accounting for that, with his Sword Luck and Pluck he can just stab at her when she finally starts descending. She can merely jump twice and nothing is stopping him from chasing her horizontally while she falls vertically and taking a Hamon augmented stab at her.
 
Chelsea's has fought opponents that are stronger than her before, however, as she has fought em the Chibeara which is essentially a rampaging monster that no one thought could be beaten. Also the comparable to Dio thing here completely depends on tier. Of course we can assume that he's at the tier that applies to, but Chelshia still has skills and it's be silly to say she doesn't. She's defeated people who are skilled swordsmen, people who have been pirates forever, and even six pirates at the same time in rapid succession. To say she doesn't have the skills is ridiculous.

The Saucy shot charge time is inconsequential though if speed is equalized. Johnathan can try to run but he'd be unable to make that distance back. Chelsea's doesn't need to exert herself to charge up the saucy shot either, she just does it without having to worry about focusing on it, as she can even do it in the middle of conversations or in cutscenes. If Johnathan tries to chase, she can just run away, turn around and blast a shot at him and repeat. Yes the first decent punch would likely knock out the fireball attack but it doesn't stop the fact that it comes to a surprise to Johnathan at first and he'd likely get hit by it.

Chelshia wouldn't ever have to turn back, though. She can stay in there indefinitely and she can continuously charge up the shot and fire, and keep on doing so. Jonathan would have to tire out at some point while Chelshia could literally just sit there given that he wouldn't be able to harm her. She wouldn't have a reason to come out besides to fire the shot or to throw a punch at him if she deems it necessary or at the right time.

However she has her harpy boost which allows her to jump even further than her two jumps as well as also being able to jump a second time. It'd be tricky for Johnathan to be able to stab her from that high up, and whenever she needs to come down she doesn't have to worry about possibly being stabbed because she can either dash out of the way of the attacks or can just turn into a chest and crush that sword of his. It still shouldn't hurt her as long as she stays in the chest.
 
Then her intelligence bit needs to be updated because nothing of that is implied at all in her profle. And no, he's comparable to Dio. He battles him, he manages to cut him in half, he overpowers someone that is below Dio pretty easily, you don't get more clear cut.

You seem to have a really weird concept of speed equalized. Whether it's equalized to his or her speed, 3 seconds is more than plenty enough time for him to get close or pull away enough for an easy dodge or just to get out of range. And he wouldn't be stupid enough to chase an enemy that can hit from a distance and is running away. This is also all assuming that, for some reason, she keeps to range spamming from the start, because she's likely to get a pummeling of a lot of blows nearly double her own AP

Last I saw she turns into a chest, not make a chest appear and remain inside, neither can she open it up to take pot shots at things while remaining safe inside. If that's a thing she can do in game, then that better be added to her profile because there's no indication of it.

Crush a sword that can withstand attacks higher than her AP? Not happening. That dash, as well, should be added to her profile because unless it works as a speed amp, which seems to be the case, it only lets her move forwards mid air in a way she wouldn't be able to normally and not make him any faster than Jonathan running after her, making her easy to catch and stab, or let fall as a chest and stab/punch as she turns back.
 
To be fair her profile is still going through a revision so I can sense the confusion. I get the confused and intelligent thing confused quite a bit however, so I apologize for that, but yes she is skilled enough to defeat several pirates at once.Even when she's surrounded she can fight several opponents at once.

But if her dash does count as a speed boost, which it likely should and I should change that, she has a very clear cut way of getting away from Jonathan or closing the gap and then establishing a gap once more. It is a speed gap, however, and it'll be incredibly useful to get away from Johnathan when, admittedly, the first attack in to punch likely won't do well. Though she can still fight easily while injured. She can go through entire stages while low on health without needing to heal. She's taken countless beatings from the pirates and can likely take a beating from Johnathan at least for a bit before running away, and then she can stay at a range, which she would do in character to avoid getting hit. She'd understand "Woah, this guy's tough!" And would try to keep the gap between them, and considering how she arguably has a better range game, she could do so. Jonathan would be force to try and close a gap she could easily maintain.

On top of that, I think you misunderstood the chest. She does turn into a chest. She can charge her saucy shot while in the chest, turn back to her normal self, fire, and turn back into a chest immediately after to continue the cycle. She doesn't have any consequence to continuously turning into a chest and she can just spam that. And she can even still smash her hand into the ground, making a miniature shockwave which could knock johnathan off balance or just hurt him in general. It's a spammable move that she'd also do to keep him at range, which she'd do after realizing how much of a threat he is up close. It's not out of character for her to go range, it's just not her first option but after receiving what's likely a bit of a beating by Jonathan it should be assumed that she'd learn to go on the range quickly.

Though I will change her intelligence to further show off her skill, as well as her dash to make it that speed boost like it should be as she moves much quicker when she's dashing around. Thank you for bringing that up, though. I wasn't sure whether or not that would apply at the time, so, legitimately on that, thanks.
 
Wouldn't it be better to suspend this for now until the revisions are done, then? It paints an incomplete figure of her all around which makes things harder. They are minor things, but in this scenario they change the direction of the battle hugely.
 
Those are actually the only things I needed to change. I just didn't think them up at the time. Not that there are massive revisions going on I'm just saying that her profile may not take certain things into consideration. I'll definitely comb through her profile and possibly add a couple more attacks, but right now this should be all that needs to be added.
 
Of the dash? I don't think I have gifs available but I could try to link some play throughs? I can try at least.
 
https://youtu.be/Ofwao_TP8wI

This video actually shows off her mobility incredibly well. He uses her dash attack to literally remain in midair for entire rooms. Of course obviously how a speed runner plays and how normal people play are different but this whole video is a good way of showing off how mobile it is. I just don't think the video would be a good example on the profile. I can likely take some gifs from it, though, actually.
 
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