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Two Concept Questions

Agnaa

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My first question is, what type of concept manipulation is a concept which governs all objects under it in reality, but where the concept itself is altered itself by the perception of sentient beings?

This is specifically in reference to aberrations in the Monogatari series.

"Well, Araragi, what's she supposed to do? It's not just vampires. All aberrations are made up of human beliefs." "Human beliefs?" "Yup. They're there because humans think they are ― that's what an aberration is. Behind every ghost is a silver tongue. But that doesn't make them any less real." "Huh? I'm not sure I get your point. I guess faith works in mysterious ways, but how does that have anything to do with her?" "Vampires are the strongest aberration because everyone believes that vampires are the strongest aberration. Aberrations manifest as those around them recognize them ― and behave as those around them expect them to. That's how it goes."
~ Neko K, Tsubasa Family, Chapter 5, Page 142​
More potentially relevant, potentially irrelevant quotes
"We might be here as a matter of course ― but as soon as people think that's a matter of course, we become reality. Demons ― would be mere blood disorders. Cats ― would be mere multiple personalities. Crabs ― would be mere illnesses. Snails ― would be mere lost children. Monkeys ― would be mere slashers. Snakes ― would be mere pain. Aberrations ― would be mere reality." "And we'd end up saying something dull like 'There's no room in our scientific society for aberrations'?" "Nope. We just wouldn't be able to maintain the same forms ― we'll be here, always and forever. So long as you humans are around."
~ Bake 3, Tsubasa Cat, Chapter 7, Page 188​
"Why do aberrations in legends, or in other words, so-called metamorphic monsters, always take the shape of humans or animals? Basically, they're unreal existences, yet they base their shape on things that really exist. You've never really thought about it?" … "In the end… Aberrations exist thanks to people… They exist because humans exist. This doesn't mean that aberrations are dependent on humans though. It just means that if there's nobody to observe, nobody's being observed. Even I, who was dubbed a legendary vampire, would not be a vampire without that legend. The same as any other aberration. If you can't speak of the aberration it isn't an aberration. A ghost story must be a story of the supernatural." … "When you dig down, an aberration is just an attachment."
~ Tsukimonogatari, Yotsugi Doll, Chapter 1​
"i mean, if Mister Serpent lives at a shrine, that makes him (despite looking nothing like it now) a god. Really, an actual god. ...Hm? But i feel like Mister Oshino said at some point that all aberrations, conceptually, are like gods. No, he argued that ultimately, whether it's a being or a concept, anything that isn't human is a god ― that's Japanese polytheism in a nutshell. They're everwhere. That's what he taught Nadeko."
~ Otori, Nadeko Medusa, Chapter 9, Page 88​
My second question is, what type of concept manipulation, or other abilities, would a character get for severing emotions and using that emotion to create a whole new breed of aberration, essentially a whole new concept?

"Sure, we were both new breeds of aberrations, both aberrations born from my master, but unlike me, that thing wasn't based on any aberration ― its spirit didn't possess anything. My non-aberrational master didn't seem to know exactly what that meant. She didn't know how freeing it was to an aberration to not be written about, to have no records, to never have been spoken of. Honestly, I didn't even want to imagine it. One thing I could say ― is that the tiger had no blind spots, no weaknesses. Forget bringing it back, just opposing it was difficult."
~ Neko S, Tsubasa Tiger, Chapter 61, Page 251​
 
Sounds like in both instances the concept would be type 4 as it appears to be dependent on the perception of living beings.

I suggest asking Kal though.
 
Type 4 seems to require that the concept doesn't govern reality, at least as it's written on the current page.
 
Yeah, that's the issue.
 
Well this is certainly an abnormality, and is just a byproduct of being unable to properly cover all options for universal abstract philosophies.

To me, however, what is important here isn't that it is determined by perception, but that it determines reality. Although it has an abnormal weakness, a concept capable of governing the reality it's in is closer to Type 3 than Type 4, although it should be noted that it has an abnormal weakness on its users' profiles.
 
Alright, thanks.
 
Bumping for the second question.
 
Bump
 
To give some context beyond that quote, Tsubasa Hanekawa turned two of her emotions into aberrations that embodied those emotions of hers. Black Hanekawa (embodying her stress), who is speaking in that quote, was based off of another aberration, the meddlecat. The History Tiger (embodying her envy), who is being talked about in that quote, wasn't based off of any aberration.

Since Hanekawa can create aberrations, which are type 3 conceptual beings, which aren't based off of any existing concept, would that give her conceptual manipulation? Or another ability entirely?
 
If it isn't direct, I don't know. The Type 4 weakness also means anyone manipulating them indirectly (changing sentient perception, for example) doesn't have Conceptual Manipulation.

Them being dependent on perception is a major crux on how these guys are handled, even if they define reality like a Type 3.
 
What exactly do you mean by "If it isn't direct, I don't know."?
 
Bump. I can give more evidence/explanations if I know exactly what you mean by "direct".
 
By direct I mean that she directly manipulated the concept and didn't just spawn/change one by her perception, since perception can control them.
 
Ahh right, them spawning by her perception would make more sense in this instance.
 
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