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Ethan vs Shirou

Considering base shirou is his 9-C form I don't think he can even summon k&b

If he can though he one shots as they are 7-B
 
Base Shirou seems a little odd to assume he can project K&B cuz I think at that point is when this is right before and just after becoming Saber's master.

If the justifications are anything, he only has whatever he can grab like Blank said (a lead pipe or maybe a poster) to reinforce. Even that of a ruler or whatever. Nothing like K&B or Caliburn that he can project at this stage.
 
Low 1-C durability seems like a problem.
 
@Monarch (Shrugs)

Wouldn't Shirou's Wall level Dura be a problem for Ethan? At least w/o any equipment he has of the moment, which going here he's very likely to have something like a gun to use it against him.
 
@Iap Oh yeah, I can see that working for sure.

In that case, I'm going with Ethan. While I WOULD assume Shirou could use his reinforcement magecraft to reinforce his body's dura, I don't believe he has anything that would allow him to attack Ethan if the latter's gonna be attacking him at a distance.

At least that's what I assume if Shirou's strat is to fight up close with a reinforced pipe or poster or ruler, whatever he can use in his hand at this stage.

Edit @Blank IDEK, it was written like that for a while there so...
 
I'm pretty sure shirou actually can't do anything to win considering

His base can only reinforce nearby objects

Speed is equalized so he won't be closing the gap anytime soon

He has no ranged options

He is also 9-C while Ethan with equipment is 9-B
 
If you are looking for him to have a win con, does he have Avalon's healing available? That would actually let him make some progress without getting gunned down almost immediately while still leaving him able to die via head shot which isn't actually that hard for Ethan.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
If you are looking for him to have a win con, does he have Avalon's healing available? That would actually let him make some progress without getting gunned down almost immediately while still leaving him able to die via head shot which isn't actually that hard for Ethan.
Click to expand...
I don't think so avalons healing as stated by kiritsugu only works when saber is near
 
Near is very vague term seeing as it worked for Iri when Saber was hundreds of meters, if not a few km, away fighting Caster. Kiritsugu also had access to the healing when Saber was off fighting Lancelot hundreds of meters away and even used it to heal Shirou after she had disappeared around an hour previously.
 
Base Shirou's go-to is to reinforce the closest thing to a weapon that he can find and use it in melee. He won't risk throwing his weapon unless he's desperate, since he then risks not being able to find another improvised weapon and succeed in reinforcing it. Remember that 9-C Shirou is pathetically unskilled, since his reinforcement has a success rate of ~40% at best. This miserable success rate is also why he won't reinforce his body, because if he fails, he kills himself.

It's honestly fairer to use Shirou's other keys and just restrict his projections to non-NPs. At least then he can use his abilities without relying on luck a lot of the time.
 
What Solacis said. After all Shirou is not much better than his usual self later as long as he doesn't pull out an NP, except for the fact he can actually use reinforcement better and Saber taught him how to fight better.

Also, he can use that Projection/Reinforcement intermediary technique to turn branches into an okay set of bow and arrows.
 
PAYDAY characters might have Wall level feats so I guess this will be outdated, sorry.
 
You mean use another form?

Sure, but I need help for calcing the PAYDAY gang's Wall level feats in cutscenes and cinematics. Xtasyamphetamine told me off site that we shouldn't use gameplay feats because they're "absurd" according to him, like a shotgun ragdolling someone high up in the sky because of glitches or huge boosts in the weapons.
 
You miss understand. Say that an explosion went off in gameplay that wasn't effected by glitches or anything. You could calc that explosion potentially. Of course, context matters
 
You spelt misunderstand wrong btw

Alright, I see. But the cinematics of PAYDAY are much better to use. It can give them some stats that scale to their physical selves, like Wolf stabbing a guard that tanked a C4 explosion point blank (which blew up a wall)
 
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