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Grandmother Raven vs Salt

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She can control law and order to a type 2 conceptual level, as she embodies it and brought the concept law and order (and light) to reality, and any major change to the laws of the spiral will be dangerous. However, If there are changes to anything that has to do with laws, she can change it back via her will.

Anyway, Raven likely takes this. I highly doubt Salt can control law to a conceptual level, and Raven will probably go straight for the sealing, like she did to Spider.

Also does she have The Eyes of Time?
 
" I highly doubt Salt can control law to a conceptual level"

Demons have conceptual level law manipulation... and they're ******* High 4-C in verse. Salt is >>>>> Demons

"Cosmic Awareness"

So does Salt
 
I never said anything about cosmic awareness? Her omniscience will allow her to know what Salt will do before Salt himself knows.

At best Salt's Law Manipulation would be about the same to Raven's then, who embodies it to a type 1 level and controls it to a type 2 level. I doubt Salt has any sort of Law Manipulation that can bother a type 1 abstract being who embodies it, at best he would match her.

Regardless, she seals him away. Her omniscience will let her know that sealing is her only viable option. Even without it, that's her go to technique to use against people on a similar power to her.
 
"I never said anything about cosmic awareness? Her omniscience will allow her to know what Salt will do before Salt himself knows. "

...Not how it works. Omniscience isn't a thing out of verse

"At best Salt's Law Manipulation would be about the same to Raven's then, who embodies it to a type 1 level and controls it to a type 2 level. I doubt Salt has any sort of Law Manipulation that can bother a type 1 abstract being who embodies it, at best he would match her."

Salt is a type 1 abstract of the concept of things being forgotten and controls it completely. Furthermore, yes, being above a fuckton of demons with the same law manipulation as Raven puts him above.

"Regardless, she seals him away. Her omniscience will let her know that sealing is her only viable option"

How's the sealing work, exactly?
 
I'm pretty sure omniscience applies to her and the decisions she will make. Regardless, it's her go to move for people on her level.

"Salt is a type 1 abstract of the concept of things being forgotten and controls it completely. Furthermore, yes, being above a fuckton of demons with the same law manipulation as Raven puts him above."

Um. That's not how it works? You have to compare the feats and abilities of Law Manipulation between the two. Either way, Raven scales above other law users at conceptual levels as well, if you really want to take the "Well, he's stronger than this" logic.

Her sealing has two functions

1) Paradox chains made of pure magic that binds the enemy into a void (Or other locations, depends on the situation. It should be similar to Spider who trapped himself and her at the center of the universe), using the power of infinite amounts of Imagination Magic, Life Magic, Death Magic, Myth Magic, Storm Magic and Fire Magic

2) It made Grandfather Spider two infinites weaker than he used to be. When he was first freed, he couldn't even help The Player defeat Adult Morganthe, who was High 4-C. (Possibly it was her 3-A form he couldn't defeath, but regardless, made him two infinites weaker through the power of the paradox chains)
 
That's not statistics reduction. She sealed him and his powers away. It's specifically refered to as binding the opponent in paradox chains, which locked both Grandfather Spider and his Chaos Heart.

The entire purpose in the third arc is to make sure the Chaos Heart doesn't escape it's seal/bindings

A lot of them. And you didn't even address all my points.

Edit:

https://youtu.be/_KrE26pNIUM?t=158

All I ask is that you help me break the chain to get my heart back!

Context: Spider couldn't reach the heart without the destruction of the paradox chain, as it was locked away at husk, the center of the universe

https://youtu.be/BrYMIz518Wg?t=10679

"And what is your grand plan? You can't reach the heart either!"

Context: Again, the heart is binded with the paradox chains/locked away. Raven made it so even she couldn't break the paradox chains and the only thing that could was her daughters essence

https://youtu.be/dYETdCiiDk8?t=7095

Mellori! Break the chain!

What? Are you kidding me!? We cannot risk untethering the Chaos Heart!

  • Mellori breaks the final chain (Storm and Myth chains) that binds the chaos heart*
"The Chaos Heart is free from all it's bindings now"

Context: The only way to reach the heart was to break the final two chains of storm and myth that were locking it away.

So her, her sealing is broken:

Sealed a type 1 abstract being, sealed away most of his powers while he was trapped away, making him Infinitely' 'weaker than he used to be. Sealed his heart in 6 different sources of magic, each having a infinite amount of said magic. Even characters who had shadow magic, the power to manipulate Reality and it's very fabric, couldn't free the chaos heart from it's bindings
 
I literally gave links as to why it isn't power nullification or stats reduction

The game says time and again that the chaos heart is bound and locked away due to the paradox chains, and they couldn't touch the heart until they broke all the chains that locked it away. You're not addressing anything. You're only focusing on the part where spider was weakened. He was weakened after Raven sealed him

What part of "The chaos heart was locked and binded by paradox chains" is power null.

Shadow Magic negates resistances to magic and anti-magic powers
 
I say salt because time and illegality. Unless the fight takes place in the Neath Salt can literally destroy her from existence (and non-existence) just by the starlight he emits touching her.
 
@jelly

That literally makes no sense. Time and illegality? Expand on that. She's also a Type 1 Abstract being of Law and Light, and at best his law manipulation would be the same level as hers. Her own will can counteract any law changes throughout the entriety of existence; her existence is a passive effect on law.

I can argue literally the same thing for Raven, that she could destroy him if she wanted to. I don't see anyway that Salt can survive being trapped and sealed away from the paradox chains
 
Zachary, you're throwing random statements in there that have no meaning, and not even saying how they will affect the literal embodiment of law. Has his law manipulation ever worked on a being that embodies law on a type 1 level? And who's existence has a passive effect on law? How does that even help him defeat Raven?

Those demons, as you yourself mentioned, are far weaker than Raven is, and don't embody it like she does. Refute my points as well, you're just dodging the argument.
 
I'm voting for Salt, BTW. Especially since Raven only used sealing against someone she knew was of similar nature and won't lead with it against someone who just looks like a star.
 
Illegality = upon contact with starlight illegal things are destroyed. By law manipulation I mean the laws of physics were created by the Judgements, beings which Salt seems to be more powerful than. Salts controls the "currents of time" which shows clear manipulation of time, which they cannot be affected by. Oh and also: Demons don't exist. They are space dream bees. Salt has non existence manipulation. Math manipulation ( and a whole ton of *stuff* manipulation ) means paradoxes cannot affect Salt.
 
@Zachary

She's omniscient. She'll know Salt's nature. Also no, sealing is her go to move. The only reason she was hesitant was because she loved Spider, she doesn't have any feelings towards Salt. It was implied numerous times that without her love for Spider, she would end a battle as quickly as possible through binding the enemy. Also, you literally gave NO reason as to WHY Salt wins, all you said is "Raven won't do it", which isn't a vote.

"upon contact with starlight illegal things are destroyed"

And how will this affect Raven in the slightest. She is the reason Laws exist. If you're implying she herself is a illegality, that's assumption. She embodies law to a type 1 level. Has Salts Law Manipulation worked on someone that embodies it to a type 1 level?

"By law manipulation I mean the laws of physics were created by the Judgements, beings which Salt seems to be more powerful than"

That doesn't at all imply Salts Law Manipulation is stronger than Raven's. In the wizard101 universe, laws of physics are irrelevant to the cosmic beings. Magic in the wizard101 world IS law. General laws of physics are completely unaffective to her, and any possible changes to the laws that magic creates, is overwritten by her will and by her sheer existenxe.

"Salts controls the "currents of time" which shows clear manipulation of time, which they cannot be affected by"

Irrelevant. I don't see how this controls anything. Raven's sheer exist reset time when Spider was causing time across the multiverse to mess with the laws of magic.

"Demons don't exist. They are space dream bees"

Raven can harm and affect non-existent beings. Wall level characters in the game can in fact.

"Salt has non existence manipulation. Math manipulation ( and a whole ton of *stuff* manipulation ) means paradoxes cannot affect Salt."

The paradox chains aren't literally paradoxies, that's just the name given. They are chains made of magic, with an infinite amount of imagination magic, infinite amount of Death Magic, Infinite amount of Life Magic, Infinite amount of Storm, Fire, etc.

It sealed a type 1 Abstract being away and in doing so, made him two infinites weaker than what he used to be.

Neither of you have given a legitmate reason as to why any of Salt's techniques can stop or kill Raven
 
@Zachary

Wut. How does that even make sense. Has it ever helped him from being sealed away? You're talking about Salts Law Manipulation like it will stomp and dominate Raven, without even saying how it will help him in any way; effectively making it sound like a major NLF. Has his Law Manipulation ever helped him against someone that embodies Law to a type 1 level, and who's sheer existence counteracts changes in the law system. Re-Read my previous comments about the spiral and how the general laws of physics don't apply to the gods.

Raven seals. GG
 
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