Saint Seiya Upgrade: Possible High 2-A / 5-Dimensional Chronos

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

The scan itself, from Saint Seiya Next Dimension Chapter 19: The Doors of Space-Time.

Here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/qRUcGMt.jpg

And the same page in another translation

http://i.imgur.com/WqwBgGg.jpg

So what is that exactly? Well, simply put, as said by Hecate, Goddess of Magic who herself is Older than the Olympians, it is "A place where the past and the future intersect." "A world that transcends time / space-time."

Same page in the spanish sub:

http://i.imgur.com/B2laMUY.jpg

"En este luger se mezclan el pasado y el futuro. Es el mundo que trasciende al tiempo"

Meaning: "In this place past and future mix together. It is the world that transcends time itself."

Also worth noting that in this translation, Hecate says that one can see all nebulae of the macrocosmos (All universes), rather than one universe / cosmos. "No es solo una, puedan verse todas las nebulosas del macrocosmos"

The brazillian translation says the exact same thing. Trancending space-time, past and future mixing into one, all nebulae of the macrocosmos.

http://i.imgur.com/YOnjMaG.jpg

Now, some other statements and explanations about Chronos.

Artemis explains that Chronos transcends the Olympians. This is interesting because the Gods themselves say that they transcend humanity arnd are beyond their comprehension.

Chronos "Has no real form". He can't be seen, found, nor grasped by other deities.

Similarly, that giant hourglass that makes his profile's picture? That isn't Chronos.

Chronosis "Within" The Door of Space-Time, where past and future of all timelines are one.

Other deities can interact with Chronos through voice alone.

The Hourglass is to symbolize how much time he will allow Athena to be in the past.

In short:

- Chronos transcends the Gods' existence, much like they transcend humanity.

- He has no real form, and can't be seem or perceived by Gods.

- He is said beyond / within "The Door of Space-Time", which is a world that transcends the concept of time itself and contains in it's surface / entrance all of past, present and future within all timelines mixed as one.

Can we upgrade him to High 2-A?

AllanSaiyan · Feb 28, 2016

This seems reasonable, lets see what the Admins and other users have to say.

Promestein · Feb 28, 2016

This seems reasonable to me. "Unknown, likely/possibly High 2-A" may be the best bet?

CrossverseCrisis · Feb 28, 2016

I see that Matt actually went through with this, huh?

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

CrossverseCrisis said:
I see that Matt actually went through with this, huh?

Of course I did.

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

Promestein said:
This seems reasonable to me. "Unknown, likely/possibly High 2-A" may be the best bet?

This is what I'd agree with.

Lina_Shields · Feb 28, 2016

About time Chronos had been considered for an upgrade. Since Chronos completely transcends time, this would also mean that he would be completely above 4-Dimensional.

Supported.

TheMightyRegulator · Feb 28, 2016

Transcending space-time isn't 5 dimensional. The gods he transcends in question would have to be 4 dimensional for him to be 5 dimensional.

CrossverseCrisis · Feb 28, 2016

So this is a 2-A upgrade rather than High 2-A, eh?

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

TheMightyRegulator said:
Transcending space-time isn't 5 dimensional. The gods he transcends in question would have to be 4 dimensional for him to be 5 dimensional.

Artemis has 4D Cosmos. She said he transcends all Olympians.

TheMightyRegulator · Feb 28, 2016

CrossverseCrisis said:
So this is a 2-A upgrade rather than High 2-A, eh?

Well points 1 and 2 seem legit at least, though definitely not 3. It's still a possibility. Azathoth is the dimensions expert though, he should take a look at this.

CrossverseCrisis · Feb 28, 2016

TheMightyRegulator said:
CrossverseCrisis said:

So this is a 2-A upgrade rather than High 2-A, eh?

Click to expand...

Well points 1 and 2 seem legit at least, though definitely not 3. It's still a possibility. Azathoth is the dimensions expert though, he should take a look at this.

Hmm. I can go ask him then on this.

SSJRyu1 · Feb 28, 2016

Well I know we had a similar discussion on Arceus transcending space and time when trying to determine his speed compared to Shin budokai Janemba's. Azathoth seemed to think he was still 4D even transcending space and time, just immeasurable speed on a 4D scale which is above omnipresent on a 3D scale.

But here they also said Chronus is non corporeal on a 4D scale and across all timelines if I am interpreting it correctly, so maybe Omnipresent on a 4D scale? Although it certainly seems Chronus is being billed as vastly beyond any of the other gods for sure.

Is there a reference to infinite timelines or universes in saint seiya verse or specific numbers? If so the fact he is across all timelines could be strong proof for 2A, although I'm not so sure about high 2A with just being beyond space and time, maybe is there a statement of him being in a higher dimension than the other gods, or something of that nature?

CHILLVIBEZZ · Feb 28, 2016

I asked a while ago regarding transcending space-time and was told unless its specifically stated to be in a higher dimension then one could not be regarded as such since transcending it doesn't necessarily mean being 5-D it's only a possibility.

But since she mentions nebulas of the macrocosm and each one is a timeline then this is likely 2-A at best until we get more concrete proof of higher dimensions sadly.

Lina_Shields · Feb 28, 2016

The exact definition of High 2-A: Characters who can destroy and/or create 10^500 to an infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums.

If what Artemis said about Chronos being transcendant about gods is true, this would mean that Chronos would be a dimension above the Gods (4-dimensional), similar to how the Gods would be above 3-dimensional beings. With the very last point, merging all the timelines and transcending is completely would basically means that he Chronos would pretty much view time like a 2-D object from a 3-D point of view.

Has it been implied in any way that Chronos can alter the effects of time and what it does? (similar to how we would interact with a 2-D plane?) He may have to do that in order to make High 2-A.

CrossverseCrisis · Feb 28, 2016

Crazystarf said:
The exact definition of High 2-A: Characters who can destroy and/or create 10^500 to an infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums.
If what Artemis said about Chronos being transcendant about gods is true, this would mean that Chronos would be a dimension above the Gods (4-dimensional), similar to how the Gods would be above 3-dimensional beings. With the very last point, merging all the timelines and transcending is completely would basically means that he Chronos would pretty much view time like a 2-D object from a 3-D point of view.

Has it been implied in any way that Chronos can alter the effects of time and what it does? (similar to how we would interact with a 2?) He may have to do that in order to make High 2-A.

Uh sir, that's the definition for 2-A. High 2-A is being able to create/or destroy 5-D space-time constructs.

SSJRyu1 · Feb 28, 2016

Well for his profile it is stated he is beyond space and time, whether it is actually said in the anime I don't know tbh as I haven't watched Pokemon in a while, so based on that Azathoths thoughts were being beyond space and time still wasn't proof of 5D, still 4D is what I was basically saying.

As for 2A, if they have something to suggest there are infinite timelines or universes I agree 100% it would qualify him as 2A, but if the number has never been clarified it would be an assumption to say there are infinite timelines or universes tbh.

CHILLVIBEZZ · Feb 28, 2016

He has already altered time and he could warp ppl across the universe while still being present as well.

Is transcending someone mean the dimension itself more specifically? I'm not sure that's concrete evidence on that regard

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

Crazystarf said:
The exact definition of High 2-A: Characters who can destroy and/or create 10^500 to an infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums.
If what Artemis said about Chronos being transcendant about gods is true, this would mean that Chronos would be a dimension above the Gods (4-dimensional), similar to how the Gods would be above 3-dimensional beings. With the very last point, merging all the timelines and transcending is completely would basically means that he Chronos would pretty much view time like a 2-D object from a 3-D point of view.

Has it been implied in any way that Chronos can alter the effects of time and what it does? (similar to how we would interact with a 2-D plane?) He may have to do that in order to make High 2-A.

He has absolute control over all time in all timelines.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Feb 28, 2016

So let me ask, is the main reason for this due to transcending space and time?

Antvasima · Feb 28, 2016

Well, if he encompasses all timelines, 2-A seems appropriate. However, we would probably need more specific proof to rate him as fully 5-dimensional/High 2-A.

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

@Azathoth

That and how he pretty much is to the Gods what they are to humans.

@Antvasima

I see. Then maybe "Unknown, possibly 2-A" will suffice for now?

Antvasima · Feb 28, 2016

That would likely be fine, yes.

Victor2 · Feb 28, 2016

chronus is fine as he is now. we don`t know if he can creat/destroy all of it regardless i think saturn should be the one to get an upgrade

Antvasima · Feb 28, 2016

So, should I temporarily unlock Chronos' profile?

Victor2 · Feb 28, 2016

why? "possibiliy 2-A" is okay for chronus atm

Antvasima · Feb 28, 2016

@Matthew I have unlocked the profile. You can tell me here when you have finished editing.

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

@Ant I am currently editing other Saint Seiya pages, but I will alter Chronos in due time.

CHILLVIBEZZ · Feb 28, 2016

Victor2 said:
chronus is fine as he is now. we don`t know if he can creat/destroy all of it regardless i think saturn should be the one to get an upgrade

Why Saturn does he have actual feats?

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chronos You guys can lock this.

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Victor2 said:

chronus is fine as he is now. we don`t know if he can creat/destroy all of it regardless i think saturn should be the one to get an upgrade

Click to expand...

Why Saturn does he have actual feats?

Controlling Space-Time and destroying time on an universal scale, also above Abzu and Kouga needing Cosmos of Athena, Pallas and all Omega Saints to barely fight him.

... So 2-C.

Victor2 · Feb 28, 2016

CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Victor2 said:

chronus is fine as he is now. we don`t know if he can creat/destroy all of it regardless i think saturn should be the one to get an upgrade

Click to expand...

Why Saturn does he have actual feats?

he is roman identity of chronus. just like chronus he tracends time plus life-death as well as controlling infinite etc

CHILLVIBEZZ · Feb 28, 2016

Idk what controlling infinity would warrant you here though.

Matthew_Schroeder · Feb 28, 2016

Saturn is the romans fusing Cronus and Chronos into one, yes. But Roman Gods are clearly weaker in Saint Seiya. (5 Bronzies facing against Diana, Bacchus, Romulus, Vulcan and Mars equally)

CHILLVIBEZZ · Feb 28, 2016

Yeah he doesn't seem close to Cronus.But nvm then.

Saint Seiya Upgrade: Possible High 2-A / 5-Dimensional Chronos

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