Earthbound major revision

Alright, so this is my first time doing a content revision thread. So pls don't kill me if things aren't correct, or not organized. I'm a noob at this, and here I am doing kinda justice with this series. As me and Chrisras discussed what needed to be added into this series, an addition to coming up with a new god tier character that is important within the Earthbound story as a whole. I'll start off with the easy, yet long one part, powers and abilities addition. (This will include equipments absent in Mother 1, 3, and 3.) And from there, I'll talk about Pokey Minch, since he's missing abilities. After that, I'll finally disscuss about a mysterious, new god tier character that is responsible for the events in Earthbound. Alright, here goes nothing.

Powers and abilities additio
Easy, but rather long. I'll start off with Ness:

- Durability revised to At least Universal level+: Managed to survive against Giygas attack and hold his defense. Shielded the party from Giygas attack. As every time Giygas attack, the text reads "You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas attack!"

- Reality Warping Or Universal Creation: Created Magicant, which is a whole universe with a space time continuum. This ability might not be allowed in combat, but with this ability, Ness has been able create items and bring them to the real world. He can also have characters that represent his courage (and aid him in battle) or previous enemies that he has fought. Magicant is a place of wonder and imagination (as the players guide describes it)

- Space-Time Manipulaton Or Matter Manipulation: Same reasons as Reality warping


- Is protected under Fate and Probability Manipulaton via "Truth of the universe" (added to 7-C and Low 2-C, also added to the choosen 4, Lucas, and Claus): Truth Controls a "universal system", of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. The Truth was stated to be responsible of controlling destiny ". Apple Kid, a genius scientist, described the probability of Ness winning against Giygas as just a 1% against 99%, yet, Ness's courage managed to pull the 1% victory, although this is mostly attributed to the "Truth of the universe". Is described as having the power to "change cosmic events" in the Earthbound guide book. If you want more details and info, you can look into "The New god tier character" section.

- Self-resurrection (Both 7-C and Low 2-C): This one could be debatable, but I think it should apply. When one of your party members "collapsed" some dialogue changes (for example: When you save Paula and she collapses in a battle, her parents would say that she hasn't appeared despite feeling her presence as shown here.) that implys that your party had indeed died (they have a ghost sprite) So with Ness losing a battle, you're given an option to come back and fight again. It's possible that "Truth of the universe" is behind this. And it was confirmed that losing a battle was different in MOTHER 3, so this maybe could apply.

- Minor Resistance to Time stop (For the choosen 4): Ness and Jeff are capable of briefly dodging an attack from the Dali's clock, who's notable power is to stop time. The enemy appear in both Moonside and within Dunge ma so this ability could apply to Paula and Poo as well.

Fourth wall awareness and breaking: Able to communicate with one of the game designers (Reminds me of the Annoying Dog from Undertale. Coincidence? It's also possible that the dog is Mr Itoi himself, he also views Earthbound as fiction as he tells the player about the game and tells them to send in an email to Nintendo to receive a prize.) and knows he's inside a game. (Within Magicant, Buzz Buzz tomb stone reads "This is Buzz Buzz's tombstone. He appeared earlier in the game and gave up the ghost before he could achieved his goal."

Alright, so here's a thing about Ness's hypnosis ability (and thanks to this thread so more info is on that thread) Hypnosis description states that the target will fall asleep unless they're "highly intelligent". This is incorrect. EarthBound's status formulas use Luck, not IQ. This could also in turn follow game mechanics since it relies on a different status.

Alright, so now onto Giygas:

Abstract existence (Type 1): I Feel like it's a stretch, but I'll proceed with it anyway. Giygas is referred to as "evil energy" and an entity "made" of evil. The English translation out right says that Giygas is the "Embodiment of evil itself" (Though, appearantly a mistranslation) This is shown through Giygas having the power to influence people who have evil thoughts, even shown to work against Ness as he was fighting against his evil side in Magicant.

Passive Mind manipulation (7-A and Low 2-C): His mere presence caused global chaos and turned people and animals violent and evil. Inanimate objects also came to life, along with the dead. People with "Bad" Or "Evil" thoughts are in Giygas control so that he can attack those who oppose him.

Tier revised to "At least Low 2-C": Effortlessly destroyed the universe in the future and was going to do the same in the past and present timeline if not stopped. Superior to Post Magicant Ness, who became one with the universe.

Range revised to Low Multiversal: Erased Paulas call for help, which was going towards the player in another universe. Can attack through time and spread his influence through different timelines.

-Passive Void Manipulation: When the devil machine was turned off, Giygas true power was unleashed, the scenario turns into a black void which is stated to be a Dimension of Darkness that Giygas creates, the same darkness that erased everything in the future where buzz buzz came from. Unconsciously erased Paula pray for help.

Illusion creation via the Mani Mani Statue: The Mani Mani Statue was used by Giygas and one of its main abilities is creating a psychic illusion to fool people, this illusion is called Moonside.

Alright, yay. Giygas is done.

Now onto Resistance via equipments absent in Mother 1, 2, and 3's profile. Now, these items should be allowed since in the Earthbound players guide (Page 126) quotes "Many of these items are strange verisons of average, everyday things". They treat them as different items from the real world and actually having powers. So these should be allowed. I'll start with Mother 1.

- Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulaton, Electricity Manipulation, Resistance to OHK, and The Sea Pendant says it'll "reduce damage" against all PSI attacks. All of that added to protagonist.


Ok, so that was very simple, lol. Onto Mother 2 items!

-Transformation: Via bag of dragonite, they can transform into a fire breathing dragon to do massive damage.

-Statistics Amplification: Can boost their durability via Defense spray.

-Ectoplasm Manipulation and Poison Manipulation: Via Pharao's course, can summon an ectoplasmic ooze to poison the enemy.

-Sound Manipulation: Via Stag Beetle "throwing this at the enemy during battle, the enemy is shocked and stops moving. Gone after one use"

Equipment (which you can look here):

Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, OHKO, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, and Sleep Manipulation) via Pendants and Bracelets (here and here)

Standard Equipment

Teddy bears (Yes, a 7-C Teddy Bear. One that is above baseline since it survived 20 kilos.)

As you can see, Mother 2 has a lot of equipments that are pretty handy.

Now onto Mother 3.

- Explosion Manipulaton via Bombs, Super Bombs, and Pencil Rockets.

- Possible Durability Negation via The New Year's Eve bomb, after one use, it leaves the opponent with 1 HP.

-Statistics Amplification via offense and defense spray.

-Can break physical and psychic shields with Shield Snatcher (for Protagonists).

-Sound Manipulation via Siren Beetle for Duster: Makes enemies turn around due to a deafening noise.

- Throws in some weird scent to attract Bee's, I really don't know what ability that falls under in. But that's with the Honey Shower (Calls a swarm of bees to attack a person.) (lol 7-C bees)

Equipments:

- Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Electricity Manipulaton, Ice Manipulaton, OHK, Status Effect Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, Sleep Manipulation, and Poison), and healing (brings back health every turn.) with special clothing, bracelets and Pendants (here)

Great, we are done with Powers and Abilities for the series! Well, kinda. Now we are moving onto Pokey Minch missing abilities, an addition to justifying his intellect more.


Pokey Minch, aka Kid who's a dictator
So this kid is missing abilities from his profiles and I think his intellect needs to be more justified (which I'm here to fix.)


"Throws one or multiple bombs/energy projectiles at all enemies to deal heavy damage." possible Explosion Manipulaton


"Numbs (paralyses) an enemy" "Causes crying (decrease in accuracy) to all enemies".- Status Effect inducement (Paralysis and uncontrollably crying)

"Absorbs an enemy's HP."- Life Absorptions


His intelligence should have more info like becoming a dictator, mechanizing animals, is pretty cunninng, and can organize a huge army, modernized Tazmily, captured Claus and turned him into the Masked Man.

And that's about it for this kid.

New god tier character, "Truth of the universe"
Now, for the moment you've been waiting for. And as mentioned above for Ness, you are probably asking yourself "who's this truth entity present in Earthbound?" "Whys he important?" I'll try my best to answer this (Credits to Chrisras for suggesting this, he made pretty great points and made a sandbox character of "Truth" that I'll be taking info from. The truth of the universe is a mysterious entity present within MOTHER 2/Earthbound and alluded in MOTHER 3. The truth of the universe is a cosmic entity that's the embodiment of truth itself, it's both tiny and massive simultaneously, and watches the universe like a wave. It speaks to the universes that exist inside everyone (that being Magicant) and seems to control destiny as its responsible for the "universal system", of which selects "chosen one" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. In Earthbound, it was shown to communicate with Ness when he was drinking a cup of coffee in Saturn valley, and again in the Tenda village. It's also responsible for giving Ness enough power to confront Giygas. In Mother 3, it was shown to communicate with Lucas when he was drinking a cup of coffee in Saturn valley too. It's "2-C" because The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline. (So that's Past, Present, Future where Giygas wins, 2 timelines where Ness wins, Ness's Magicant and possibly others (though it was only Ness who was able to reach his full potential, other people in Earthbound can just visit it), and Mother 3. So about 7 universes, to possibly higher)

Now for its abilities:

- Non-Corporeal (Described has being like a "wave" that travels around the cosmos, It does not present any physical form in any of its appearances, mostly talking to the mind of the Chosen ones in an unknown way)

- Non-Physical Interaction (Should be comparable to Ness, who can harm Intangible and Non corporal beings)

- Abstract Existance (Type 1):The embodiment of "Truth" in the Earthbound world, also possible that it is the embodiment of the universe itself.)

- Immortality (Type 5; The destruction of one universe where Giygas achieves his full power did not affect it in any way possible. The reset of reality in MOTHER 3 did not affect it either.)

- Acausality (Type 1; Is not bound to conventional time)

- Fate Manipulation (Controls a "universal system", of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. Stated of being the responsible of controlling destiny)

- Probability Manipulation (Apple Kid, a genius scientist, described the probability of Ness winning against Giygas as just a 1% against 99%, yet, Ness's courage managed to pull the 1% victory, although this is mostly attributed to the Truth)

(By the way, Probability and Fate were mentioned above for Ness, this should also apply to Paula, Jeff, and Poo as they are one of the Chosen 4. An addition to Lucas and The Masked Man for being the chosen one.)

- Power Bestowal (Ness, just touching the Truth of the universe, managed to acquired the power necessary to confront Giygas)

- Telepathy and Psychic abilities (Can comunicate through Ness's and Lucas's minds after they drink coffee. Should be capable of using PSI/PK attacks)

- 4th Wall Awareness/Breaking (Can communicate with the player, and connect it's power with them)

- Omniscient (Should be superior to Ness's. Described as the Supreme intelligence of the universe. Can alter destiny to choose what can happen)

- Reality Warping

Summary of everything so far
Alrighty, so I'm gonna try my best to summarize things so far.

Ness: The abilities in general seems to be fine with people with few exceptions like Fourth wall hax, and Self Ressurection, but the others are good.

Giygas: People are fine with his new abilities, though Low Multiversal range seems iffy to some but I extended it to putting that his influence were able to reach the present timeline and that he can attack through time.


Items: Yup, people are ok with them.

Pokey: Yep, people are ok with this. (Though, I do feel like his intellect can maybe be buffed to extraordinary genius)

Truth of the universe: People are both ok and iffy with this character, it's abilities are ok for some, but I fixed stuff like Mind Manipulation to Telepathy and Psychic abilities.

New edits
A possible upgrade for all of the protagonist to Low 7-B: Ok, so in this thread, there were discussions going on about the current justification of 7-C rating, but it lead to an upgrade; Basically the 6th sanctuary boss (They are called Thunder and Storm, hint hint) are capable of using PK Thunder and generating storms in battle "These twin terrors attack with the power of the elements. Find shelter from the onslaught and use PSI powers to attack the two of them at once. " (From the Earthbound Players guide) Standard Storms are said to generate this much energy, and with The 6th sanctuary boss being considered a threat to all of Dalaam, I would say this is legit. There are also other feats such as the nuclear reactor robot being 20 kilos, The Krakens generating a tornado (Which should be around 8-A and Belch's feat of, after being defeated, spreading the cumulus nimbus that covers the entirety of Threed in an unknown time frame.


One last edit for Ness: I feel like his Low 2-C form is need of more justification as it only states that he "Touch the Truth of The Universe" and overlapped the universe which allowed him to fight Giygas. Well, there is no mention of the creation of Magicant, Which was stated to be an entire universe. So, yeah and because he became the universe, he should gain the following abilities: Fusionism, Large Size (Type 8), Cosmic Awareness (Has Nigh-Omniscient, and is being guided by Truth), Higher-Dimensional Existence, and possibly Non-Corporeal.


Alright, that's all. Thank you for coming to read all of that and junk, just tell me what you think (politely pls, I'm a noob at this) and finally, Thank you for your cooperation.

You know I already agree with most of this, so yeah, waiting for input.

Ye, I'm just so hecking tired. Hopefully all of this gets through. And thanks for your inputs and support in this @Chrisras.

Bump

I completely disagree with Fate and Probability manipulation. Ness only won with help from The Player, which Apple Kid couldn't have known about when he made those calculations. My memories to foggy about Mother to comment on the rest.

The Wright Way said:

I completely disagree with Fate and Probability manipulation. Ness only won with help from The Player, which Apple Kid couldn't have known about when he made those calculations. My memories to foggy about Mother to comment on the rest.

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Refer back to "Truth of the universe". The whole the fight was destined, and in two Timeline he managed to pull the victory with the 1% of courage, which that itself is referred in the story (when Ness was drinking coffee in Saturn Valley) This is how he got through the whole adventure without fully dying. (Also thanks for commenting)

Refer back to "Truth of the universe". The whole the fight was destined, and in two Timeline he managed to pull the victory with the 1% of courage, which that itself is referred in the story (when Ness was drinking coffee in Saturn Valley) This is how he got through the whole adventure without fully dying. (Also thanks for commenting)

You ignored my point. The 1% thing was predicted by a guy who didn't know that The Player, the guy who actually killed Giygas, would get involved or that he even existed. And being chosen by some magic being doesn't mean anything unless it's outright stated that's the only reason he won. Anakin Skywalker was destined to bring balance to the force and was chosen by the force itself, doesn't give him this kind of stuff, so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for Ness.

I'm kinda with The Wright Way here, but I do think we should talk about a resistance I think Ness and his friends should get.

That is of course if you want to hear it, if not I can just stick with the discussion at hand.

Sure thing. I'll comment about Probability and Fate later since this ties in with the character "Truth of the universe" but if you wish, you may look here to see more info on it.

So me and Chrisras talked a little bit about this on the my wall, but basically...

There is a specific enemy that pops up called the Dali's Clock and as you can read. It stops time and attacks you. But each characters are able to dodge said attack. Therefore, each character and 7-C ness should have resistance to time stop. At least enough to dodge attacks in stopped time.

The most common argument against this is that, you only fight this boss in Moonside, which is all just an illusion. But as you can see on these websites: https://earthbound.fandom.com/wiki/Dali's_Clock https://wikibound.info/wiki/Dali's_Clock


The clock does in fact spawn in the Dungeon Man, or in other words, in the real world.

I mean Ness already resist Time Manipulaton, but other than that, I agree (since this is for 7-C specifically and for the others.)

As for "Truth of the Universe"

It's responsible for giving Ness enough power to confront Giygas, and all the kid did was just touch it and bam, Low 2-C. That's not even Truth's full power at all (if Ness fully merged with it, the whole Giygas vs Ness would've been a big stomp for the child. As well as earning many exp.) It also can control destiny as the whole fight was already fated (as I said before, Ness won against Giygas in two timelines and pulled the victory off with his courage but it's likely that Truth is behind it. It isn't just the player who helped contribute to the victory. No, it isn't some weird magic that says "save the world cuz this thing said so" No. Ness is a chosen one not the chosen one.

"'The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man. Your coming here, my waiting here… It was all predestined truth.

Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo… When these four forces meet, the twisting cosmos will breathe calmly once more. - Talah Rama"

"At last, you speak to me. Listen well, Ness. I am about to tell you something so important that you should probably write this down. Ready? You are a chosen one. Your destiny is not yours alone… It is part of a universal "system". The time will come when every part of you will become one (note: or overlap) with every part of the universe. You must listen to the sounds of all eight power spots. Defeating Gyiyg without doing so will be impossible. Do you understand, Ness? The moment when your destiny becomes one with the destiny of the universe… is close at hand." (I shortened the Quote.)

Can be said the same in MOTHER 3 "It says only those with the power of PK Love can pull the seven Needles. Not even we Magypsies have that ability. In other words, you're able to pull the Needles because you're a chosen boy. - Ionia"

The only reason victory happened at is because of the player. Destiny or not, Ness was getting demolished before the player showed up and obliterated Giygas.

Again, back to the Anakin example. Anakin was destined to meet The Ones, destined to use both sides of The Force, and destined to destroy the Sith. No matter what happened, those events would've transpired. If the Player didn't show up when it did, Ness would be dead.

Giygas "obliterating" Ness is why I'm giving the kid Self-resurrection and a durability upgrade. Also this:

However, I myself have questions...

Anyway, I'm going to back away from Probability and Fate Manipulaton, since that's not the only ability on there. And, uh. Ya got any inputs on the other powers and abilities? Or everything in general about this whole revision despite the "foggy" memory? (It's alright if ya don't, I'll wait for others to put their inputs)

Nope, sorry.

It's quite alright. I'll just sit here in my chair, probably hoping maybe an Admin like Cal would put his input on this.

Bump

''Buuump''

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Bump blocks the way!

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Attention all Earthbound gamers!

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Where's the proof that Magicant is an entire universe? Having its own Space-Time doesn't automatically make it one; otherwise Kami and Mr Popo would be Low 2-C. I also disagree with Fate and/or probability manipulation, since it was The Player who defeated Giygas, not Ness. I'm neutral regarding, At least, but feel it is unnecessary. Ness merging with Space-Time is the primary reason Giygas can't destroy the universe instantaneously; so Ness isn't that much weaker than Giygas actually. However, being superior or Space-Time bust being casual doesn't automatically grant an "At least". As for range, it's not necessarily that Giygas nulled Low-Multiversal range, but rather it was Universal+ range that was nulled and the 10th player was what was Low-Multiversal and couldn't be nulled by Giygas.

Giygas' passive hax abilities all look good however. Abstract Existence, Mind manipulation, Void manipulation, and Illusion creation all look good IMO. For the equipment abilities, Bag of Dragonite sounds more like Transformation rather than Transmutation; then again, the sounds kinda similar. And I wouldn't call the Fly Honey summoning rather than the scent attracts bees. The rest of the equipment looks good though.

Pokey's stuff look good, but I also notice some of his other stuff looks outdated. Mostly the wordings for his Absolute safety capsule. And as for the "Truth of the Universe" being a character; I'm quite iffy on that.

Thanks for leaving a reply, I'll respond soon.

Howdy, I am back. Sorry for the late response.

Your question about Magicant: here, and here This has also been discussed in the past to justify Ness's Low 2-C tier, he as well "touched the truth of the universe" (look at the Japanese text for the first link, it's pretty interesting compared to the English Translation). He creates and absorbs Magicant.

I'll talk about Fate/Probability tomorrow since I'm too tired to talk about it in a detailed response, however, I'll leave this here (since I could've rephrased it a bit): Protected under Probability and Fate Manipulato because of the mysterious entity that I mentioned above.

At least Low 2-C Giygas: I thought earning an "At least" rating was to do something casual or effortless (like what it says in Giygas's page) since characters like Rosalina is capable of effortlessly Warping the universe and creating it. If this is true, then Ness could get a dura upgrade, or am I missing something? (Since the profile describes him as being superior to Post Magicant Ness)

Everything else looks good I guess (What do you think about Ness getting Fourth wall breaking/awareness and Self resurrection (which I have a feeling that it is just game mechanics or something like that.) (Happy Thanksgiving btw)

Not sure on Truth of the Universe and Probability and Fate stuff, but everything else sounds good.

I don't know if you are allowed to "be protected under an ability" since Truth of the universe controls a "universal system" of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. (yeah, I was too lazy on that part) This also goes with Probability Manipulaton (as in the Players guide, they described Ness as having the power to change "cosmic" events and that Ness's own "courage" messed up Giygas's plan. However, I could be wrong.)

Truth of the universe, in my opinion, could be a new god tier character due to playing roles and contributions within the game, and present in Mother 3. It's responsible for giving Ness the power necessary to confront Giygas when he defeated the evil part in his mind. When Ness touched Truth of the universe, he had gain immense power and ultimate intelligence. But that's up to you guys and so far only two agrees with this entity being a character.

Bump

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This is it right here. I feel like it's referring to Magicant

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One question: This might be a little too much to ask (and I do apologize) but how do you guys feel about adding Ness's Magicant feat and absorbing it to himself (essentially, absorbing the universe to himself, and Magicant was no more!) to his Low 2-C tier? (since it just says gaining the power of the Sea of eden and Touching the "Truth of the Universe".)

Bump

(By the way, I added Resistance to Time stop and removal of Hypnosis weakness)

I agree with everything presented.

Oh wow, thanks for the reply.

Here's what I'm getting so far:

Unsure about Truth of the universe: 2

No to Fate/prob: 3

Yes to Truth of the Universe and Prob/fate: 2

Everything thing else seems to be fine with everybody I think.

Bumpo

Bump

Should Ness' Self resurrection be Low godly Regenerationn? Since getting (essentially regenerating) your physical body back after being a ghost fits under that category. It's kinda weird how that works, so if anybody wants to correct me then go ahead.

I'd say it's more ressurection since he's basically coming back to life.

Alrighty then, I will leave it as it is.

SansTheSkeleton101 said:

I'd say it's more ressurection since he's basically coming back to life.

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....But that doesn't negate the point. All godly Regenerationn can be described as coming back to life.

All godly regen is more the idea of restoring your entire body from a form of erasure, in the context here, Ness simply died and became a ghost, so him resurrecting just puts his ghost back into his physical body.