• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.

The_Calaca

VS Battles
Retired
14,575
5,877
In the One Piece Discusion Thread we have been talking for hours about this and I think we should settle this.

Fuji's meteors
First of all I want to know why we aren't using this calc from NF despite the atmosphere issue?

We're currently using standard meteor's fall for those meteorites but we need to talk more about this.

Given the context it's obvious that Fuji's dragging down the meteor from space but we don't have enough proofs of One Piece Earth's size (or at least accepted proof).

If we're gonna use this feat to scaling then we should use Sky Islands's height as a lowball. The Sky Islands are divided in two parts: White Sea and White White Sea. IIRC the White Sea is at 8,000km while White White Sea is at 10,000km.

If we use those values as a lowball and assume 1 minute timeframe the result'll end like this:

Using White Sea's height: 8,000km / 60s = 133,333.333m/s (Mach 388)

Using WWS's height: 10,000km / 60s = 166,666.666m/s (Mach 485)

Why this tho? Because 11km/s it's our standard but not the only timeframe we use. One minute as a timeframe is more accurate for two reasons:

  • The characters in scene didn't have much time to react to it.
  • Fujitora uses gravity itself. Thinking that he just brought the meteor at meteor entry's speed is unaccurate. We don't see the meteor coming from outer space but the current values gives more than 12 minutes with the 8,000km lowball which is blatantly incorrect.
Kaido
Well we also discussed about Kaido scaling to Fujitora's meteors.

Why should we scale Kaido to Fujitora's meteors which have an AP different from Issho's regular AP?

Simple. Kaido has been stated to be the strongest creature in earth, water and air by the narrator itself. This obviously includes Fujitora and in-universe context this is consistent. He's even feared by Doflamingo himself who'd prefer to fight against the Admirals rather than Kaido. And he did.

First of all it's need to be noted that Fujitora's meteors aren't an OoC strategy. He did it twice. First situation was when he fought Law and Doflamingo. Doffy and Fuji was a team at that point and with the difference in strength between Doffy and Law should have been enough but still he used it. Second situation he brought an even bigger meteor and it was cutted by Birdcage which is Doflamingo's attack.

But what's the importance of this? Because Doffy did saw and experienced Fujitora's power by himself and still was scared for Kaido.

Damage3245 disagree with this saying that with no feats nor statements involving this Kaido shouldn't scale to Fujitora's meteors which I and many other users had disagree.

This is unaccurate since Kaido isn't only the strongest creature alive but he's a Yonko. One of the main power houses of the whole world. The Yonko are so powerful that the Marine and the WG needs the Shichibukai to help them in the fight against them. The Admiral by themselves are incapable of fight any Yonko.

We have the first and only case of a Yonko fighting and Admiral: Paramount War.

In that war Shirohige didn't used his full power because:

  • He was old and sick. His reflects were so bad that even Squard could stab him.
  • His crewmates and fleet were there so his power should be restricted by himself if he doesn't want to accidentally kill anyone.
  • He was aiming for save Ace. He didn't pretend to fight against the Navy after accomplishing the mission.
Even with those restrictions the war kept going for hours.

In a 1v1 Akainu got rekt by a heavily injured Shirohige in a bloodlusted state. Before that the Admirals damaged Shirohige, mostly when he took his guard down.

Kaido is the strongest creature in the world while Shirohige is the strongest ma in the world. I know this is a little problematic because I'm using the words in their titles but isn't a stretch thinking that current Kaido is stronger than Old Whitebeard.

In a 1v1 fight Kaido'll win. Now that we know that Fujitora use meteors even if the situation doesn't require it and is a likely strategy for him to win.

But what if the meteors are truly stronger than Kaido? Then I'd call it PIS. It's a complete PIS that the Navy having such a powerful Admiral doesn't go to kill every Yonko right now. Plot tells us otherwise. If they don't go in a hunting fest dragging meteors to kill the Yonkos it's for a reason. The innocent lives are a thing tho, but doesn't change any of the other proofs. And if we know Akainu just a little then it's sure to say that he would send Fujitora to do that at Wano or even Whole Cake just to kill the pirates.

This would put Kaido above the meteors.

Of course this wouldn't apply to other characters such as Big Mom or Shanks unless it's proven otherwise.
 
> Kaido has been stated to be the strongest creature in earth, water and air by the narrator itself.

Being stronger than any creature does not mean being stronger than meteor. Sure, Fujitora is capable of summoning meteors but saying that Kaido is stronger than any creature and cannot lose in a 1 vs. 1 is like saying he's faster than Kizaru.

> In a 1v1 fight Kaido'll win. Now that we know that Fujitora use meteors even if the situation doesn't require it and is a likely strategy for him to win.

Even in this hypothetical scenario, the only thing of Kaido's you're scaling to it is his durability. And even that is sketchy because Kaido could theoretically just dodge the meteors if he wanted to.

I don't like using these hypotheticals based on just the narrator statement instead of simply waiting for feats.

And again, just because a Yonko is better than Admiral overall doesn't necessarily make any of their stats higher; otherwise you could be arguing for FTL Big Mom and Shanks for being 'better' than Kizaru.

> It's a complete PIS that the Navy having such a powerful Admiral doesn't go to kill every Yonko right now.

You can't just make up a hypothetical scenario and call it PIS in the story. You're reaching far too hard to justify High 6-C Kaido.
 
Like @Stefano4444, I agree with using the White White Sea's height for calculating Fujitora's Meteorites Speed and AP.
 
Damage3245 said:
Currently we have Kizaru listed at MHS in combat/reaction. If you're talking to his light form then IDK. And it's not the same case. Kaido doesn't need to be faster than Kizaru to win against him. But this is derail so I suggest not continue his

If it's just for durability then it's enough. Remember that Kaido has scars so that means he should have fought with someone stronger than him. We can upgrade Kaido's durability and wait for someone damaging him. And yes, he can dodge the meteors but the AoE of a meteor is still huge and Kaido isn't so small.

I'm not just basing in the narrator. You shouldn't say that when I gave more reasons than just "hurr, narrator said Kaido is strongest so he beats Fuji's meteors". Actually, the fact that Doffy preferred Fujitora rather than Kaido is more than enough.

I could argue that but no Big Mom nor Shanks have enough statements and context to provide it. Again, Kizaru is listed as MHS and you're one of the people who disagree with him being SoL so I don't get why are you saying this. Did you thought about it and now you agree with Kizaru being SoL?

Well then. Discard the whole PIS thing if you think so.
 
Damage out of everyone here you're using the most assumptions yourself. Logically The Yonko and Admirals should scale to Fujitora's meteorite and there's multiple things implying that as I discussed with you in the earlier thread which everyone agreed with. Saying nobody scales to Fujitora's meteorite is silly at best and is ignoring simple scaling rules. Doffy and Law have both sliced through the meteorites and reacted to them casually. The Admirals and Yonko should be stronger than anything Fujitora is capable or he'd be the strongest character in One Piece by far. Going by your logic the World Government would simply send Fujitora to take out all the big name pirates with meteorites but that clearly isn't the case. Also using the Yonko being faster than Kizaru is a blatant False comparison and a bad one at that. Nobody is arguing that Kaido, Big Mom and Whitebeard are faster than Kizaru while using Yata Mirror. That's obviously Kizaru's speciality. Fujitora casually pulling down meteorites with his DF isn't something that can be compared to a name technique from Kizaru. Quite literally everything supports them scaling to the meteorite.
 
> Actually, the fact that Doffy preferred Fujitora rather than Kaido is more than enough.

Okay, so Kaido is above Fujitora's typical AP. That's about reasonable as it can get.

If you want to extrapolate further just considering that Doffy already has a counter to meteors in the form of Birdcage and has shown to be extremely agile and mobile meaning he could potentially avoiding Fujitora's meteors in normal combat anyway.

> I could argue that but no Big Mom nor Shanks have enough statements and context to provide it. Again, Kizaru is listed as MHS and you're one of the people who disagree with him being SoL so I don't get why are you saying this. Did you thought about it and now you agree with Kizaru being SoL?

Apologies, I forgot about that whole thing. My bad.

> Logically The Yonko and Admirals should scale to Fujitora's meteorite and there's multiple things implying that as I discussed with you in the earlier thread which everyone agreed with.

You have statements or feats proving they scale to the meteorite feat?

> Doffy and Law have both sliced through the meteorites and reacted to them casually.

That meteor was not Large Island level.
 
Damage3245 said:
- Snip -.
Doffy countered a smaller meteor with regular threads and the big one with the Birdcage. If he truly has a thing that powerful then he should try to stop Kaido with the same threads but for some reason it's not the case. The case is that Kaido can break those threads or at least no-sell them while the meteor got sliced.
 
> Do you have statements or feats proving they scale to the meteorite feat?


Read the thread over again, I brought multiple pieces of evidence proving that they should scale to the meteorite. We quite literally do it for every other verse with meteorites. Also you do realize Oda just confirmed that Akainu has the highest offensive Devil Fruit correct? That right there should prove that they scale.


https://orojackson.com/threads/new-...eatest-attack-power-among-devil-fruits.57687/
 
As I said in the old thread I think we can scale Kaido to the meteors and then some.

Now before Damage asks the obvious question I'll explain a bit. Yes, normally just using hype for a character overall is not enough to make references to specific qualities. to paraphrase what damage pointed out before, Character A can be faster than Character B, But B has better AP than A. That being said, Kaido has references to his stats being absurdly high. The strongest character in OP. not strongest man, not strongest pirate, just the strongest. He never gets injured even when fighting the entire navy all by himself.

So unless Fugitora's meteorites have much greater AP than every character in OP including but not limited to Garp, Roger, WB, & SenGoku I think it is a safe bet to scale him.

That being said, Kaido is already High-C as the strongest creature in the series so why there's some big debate about this I do not know. It seems a little preemptive and should have waited until the others get downgraded, if and when that happens.

P:S The link is broken ^^^
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Also you do realize Oda just confirmed that Akainu has the highest offensive Devil Fruit correct?
Where? This could upgrade Akainu and Whitebeard.
 
> The case is that Kaido can break those threads or at least no-sell them while the meteor got sliced.

The durability of the Birdcage is calced to be Island level+.

> Read the thread over again, I brought multiple pieces of evidence proving that they should scale to the meteorite. We quite literally do it for every other verse with meteorites.

Pretty sure they have their own situations and reasons for why they scale including feats and statements.

> Also you do realize Oda just confirmed that Akainu has the highest offensive Devil Fruit correct?

Source please?
 
Oh yeah I forgot about that whole "Can find the OP in less than a year". How does Akainu stand in the verse power wise, compared to the strongest?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Oh yeah I forgot about that whole "Can find the OP in less than a year". How does Akainu stand in the verse power wise, compared to the strongest?
Akainu is already one of the strongest characters on the verse. Slightly below each of the individal Yonko I believe but still effectively equal to or above anyone else.
 
Well then. This could mean that Akainu and Aokiji are both stronger than Fuji's meteors. And with this we could scale Whitebeard for stomping Akainu, Prime Whitebeard for being stronger, Roger for matching him, Garp, Sengoku, Shiki and some more.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Oh yeah I forgot about that whole "Can find the OP in less than a year". How does Akainu stand in the verse power wise, compared to the strongest?
14th but let's not get off topic now that we're away from general discusion thread.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Well then. This could mean that Akainu and Aokiji are both stronger than Fuji's meteors. And with this we could scale Whitebeard for stomping Akainu, Prime Whitebeard for being stronger, Roger for matching him, Garp, Sengoku, Shiki and some more.
I really don't think that Akainu directly scales to Fujitora's meteor feat but I can't go into detail right now because I've gotta sleep.

Hopefully this thread will still be here tomorrow morning.
 
I already posted the source of the Calc.

I don't know if those with no account on NF can actually vew it though, so WM will take over I guess
 
I don't know if this is correct but I'll calc Doffy's speed for slicing the meteor using both 7,000km and 10,000km and the three usual timeframes (10s, 30s, 60s).

All of the calc and pixel scaling is in Cin's blog.

White sea (60s):

Distance Doffy's arm moved (1.0841m) / 116,666.666m/s

Distance between Doffy and the meteor (10.0014644766m) / 9,2922857673844900993399434247997e-6 = Mach 3138

White Sea (30s):


10.0014644766 / (1.0841 / 233,333.333) = Mach 6276

White Sea (10s):


10.0014644766 / (1.0841 / 1,166,666.666) = Mach 31379 (Sub Relativistic, I think)

White White Sea (60s)

10.0014644766 / (1.0841 / 166,666.666) = Mach 4,482

White White Sea (30s)


10.0014644766 / (1.0841 / 333,333.333) = Mach 8965

White White Sea (10s)


10.0014544766 / (1.0841 / 1,666,666.666) = Mach 44828 (Sub Relativistic+)
 
I think it would be better first if there are such statements from the manga where its was stated that White Sea is 7000 km above the Blue Sea.
 
Then I leave that to you cause I only know about speed calcs.

Or could you teach me ovo
 
@Stefano4444

Don't use *********

They got ads and virus (bitcoin miner bots)

Use ********

No ads
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
And why would that be? o.o the meteorite Fujitora dropped on Doffy and Law were different.
You're right. I don't know if we have the smallest meteor's size scaled.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
And why would that be? o.o the meteorite Fujitora dropped on Doffy and Law were different.
You're right. I don't know if we have the smallest meteor's size scaled.
I believe it was a couple dozen metres in diameter at most.
 
I made a mistake. We can calculate the KE. IDK what happened on my brain to mix things up. I'll do that right now.

BTW Damage. You never stated your opinion about the method change. Just think that at 11km/s the meteor would need ten minutes to land.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top