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I put a haxxy guy against absolute nothing: Naraku VS. Noth

Antoniofer

Antoniofer

VS Battles
Retired
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Naraku VS Noth Principality. Battle take place in one of those japanese mountain temples. For reference, Noth scale above 2.87 Megatons.

Naraku - 1 (Sigurd)

Noth - 1 (HI3)

Incon - 4 (RavenSupreme, Zensum, Schnee, ABoogie)
 
Physically he can, but Noth are immune to gnostic powers (and can also ignore them) and any stat effect is futile.
 
Its immune to basically everything, only part that can be damaged/affected in a Noth its the body, its mind and will is immutable and and status effext and animic power do not have any effect on them.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Wait, but all Noth are nonexistant, and Naraku can't counter that
Click to expand...
They can still be harmed by beings of elevated Gnosis (spiritual power/divinity), so he can still interact with it.
 
Ok, so its pretty much a fistfight unless Naraku goes for a wish, which he doesn't unless he's really ****** up iirc

If give it to Noth then, since they're far more powerful in that kind iofscenario
 
For functional purpose, what's AP value for Naraku? Noth is above 2.87 megatons
 
Finally Naraku gets some love. Its been a long time since anyone even cared for him on the wiki. Really nice. Lets take a look at the battle:

Naraku is physically above 2.5 MT scaling from Toutousai and he withstood a barrage of 995 MT for some time - albeit his physical host got really messed up. He himself doesnt scale to that potency.

They are about even in terms of physical prowess. However I dont think that matters when two haxxed characters are fighting against each other.

Going by the profile some abilities of Noth are likely not important, starting with:

Invisibility and Intangibility, seeing how Naraku can see through invisibility or even barriers and physically grab souls

as well as absorption - if the Noth were to attempt to absorb Naraku he would in return be absorbed, seeing how Naraku has feats of absorbing people from the inside, even when he himself has been absorbed whole already

-

Things like extraordinary senses may prove useful to delay Narakus go-to move of teleporting behind someone and starting his shenanigans but I dont know how potent it is.

Naraku has presence nullification but its hard to pinpoint it against a capable extraordinary sense user. Either way, I would not go as far to say that Noth can absolutely prevent getting jumped on all the time.

-

How would Noth be able to deal with Narakus amazing regenerative ability as well as type 9 immortality?

Edit: I just saw that the body of a Noth can be damaged? Then what would prevent Naraku to absorb / Soulmanipulate / / Reality Warp to acid his body?
 
Invisibility and intangibility apply to those who haven't enough gnosis, they can't interact with a Noth. For those that have enough gnosis they aren't intangible nor invisible so is not accounted against Naraku; however, not sure if EoS Naraku does it, but summoning common demons wouldn't work since they can't interact with a Noth.

Don't think Noth can be absorbed, there's nothing to absorb from them, they aren't even air or essence they are described as "absolute nothing". Additionally, they can only be spotted by the eye, any otyer way of detect them wouldn't work.

Noth erase anything they destroy if it works against regen, but can't counter type 9; however, isn't Naraku immortality bounded to the Shikon's pearl?
 
No, the Shikon Pearl is just the tangible manifestation of it. In the series the Shikon Pearl has been destroyed in two separate occasions: Once when Kikyou died, where it was destroyed without a trace and another time when Kagome shattered it.

In both cases the void of the Jewel, where Magatsuhis and Shinos (evil and good will) are located has remained absolutely intact.

This went as far that the physical tangible form of the Jewel got destroyed, travelled through time, reappeared inside Kagome, travelled back in time, got destroyed again, some fragments of it got send to a different dimension (afterlive) all the while the two wills in the Shikon Void continued to exist.

To "kill" Naraku you need to not erase his physical manifestation but you need to erase his will inside the Shikon Jewels void - which has the canon feats of remaining present despite all the stuff I have just mentioned.

Kagome, at EOS, managed to erase the Shikon Jewel (from within the void) completely out of existance from all spheres - past, present, future - effectively preventing any new physical form of the Shikon Jewel taking form.

Edit: EOS Naraku is the new Magatsuhi, as he replaced the previous Magatsuhi and Kagome was fated to be the new Shino

Edit: EOS Naraku also has not spawned any new detachment. He should technically be able to do so just as easily as he was previously but it definetly is no IC trait for him once he merged with the Jewel.
 
So only way to truly destroy Naraku is to destroying the will inside the Shikon? And I'm guessing there's no way accessing there in a conventional battle. And if the physical body of Naraku is destroyed, does he recover instantly?
 
Yeha, this is where his type 9 comes from. If you are able to EE something on all spaces of existance, including time - you have effectively downed Naraku, his will and the Shikon Jewel. Albeit I admit regular shonen characters very rarely have these ability, hence my first line of thought is always "how do they deal with the Shikons Void?".

As for physical Regenerationn, "instantly" is a term I dont like to use loosely but it happens very fast and I wager its just possible seconds.

It is also not just "Regenerationn" but "recreation", seeing as by EOS InuYasha, upon realising that dimensionally BFRing Naraku doesnt work anymore due to the Shikon Jewel has decimated Narakus physical body to such an extent that his parts where not only destroyed but spatially cut (the black blades with the galaxy-ish things inside)

But even still the Jewel recreated his host
 
What about that remain in the last picture (the pearl)? I known it wouldn't ultimately destroy Naraku but wouldn't make its recreation more difficult? If it inside of Naraku that's the first thing the Noth will notice (they only perceive stuff with elevated gnosis), so its the first thing that it will going for.
 
Yeha the little black dot is the pearl. From my knowledge there is no feat of Narakus body regenerating while at the same time the Jewel being physically destroyed, going by logic it should be possible, as the tangible form of the jewel is not the requirement for his Regenerationn

But

Instead of open this can of worms I will instead argue with the canon event:

If we assume that Noth would under any circumstance be able to physically destroy the jewel (which I doubt in the first place as I don't see him having the abilities to do so) the jewel would simply come into existence at some other time period and travel back to where both fought

In canon the jewel after being purified (erased) travelled 500 years into the future only to then travel back to its original time period 500 years in the past (or 450 something)

And everyone was just as clever as before
 
Noth (or good any being that aren't bound by the gnosis rules such the Agents of the Machine) ignore any spiritual/divine immunity, for instance they can damage Dementia (Anima: Beyond Fantasy) normally and destroy the Infinite Orb, theorically they can "destroy" a Shajad or Beryl (of course, that isn't possible since they exist outside any reality and its power is immeasurable). If its target counts with enough gnosis they can punch them.

I known that the principality can ultimately kill Naraku (unless it enter inside the Jewel or whatever and destroy the will but that is not likely), but if its encarnation appears in another time or place it will finish the fight.
 
Fun fact: One of Narakus heavy hitting abilities, which netted him an "Inconclusive" against Ren Fujiy even while the latter was using his 1A hax was actively sealing him inside the Jewel with him.

When Naraku is physically destroyed (the body in the real world, not his mind) he has a canon feat of activating a "wish" which, after his body is killed, traps the opponent in the space and timeless Shikon void. - this activates post death.

Naraku, as the "will" of the jewel on the other hand can leave the Shikon Void (like the previous Magatsuhi/Will)

Has Noth the feats of breaking out of a timeless dimension?
 
No graphic feats, but they aren't affected by spells that force resistances checks (basically any non-harmful spell, most psyquic powers and several ki technics including Null Tempus), so time spells and forced teleport ones do not affect them. Do they not being native of reality they can teleport away fading from it (is the attack the principality use), they can even teleport to the Arcane, a complexe made of Baal's memories to seal it away.
 
Well so they would at least be able to move in the void is what I get from that. Thats already a plus in my eyes. However I am unsure how to scale their fading from reality synergies with them escaping from a void which, in itself, is not part of reality as we know it.

How are they dealt with in their series?
 
Welp, the Arcane outside the physical and spiritual realm, it also knows as Nowhere, but outside that there's no much info, Baal was sealed away losing any contact with the real world, it only exist in the plane of ideas.

Noth aren't the most common creature in Anima, there hasn't been several register about them, one of those was when a Potestas faced Jonathan Kappel, reason why they are considered dangerous. Even Imperium consider them a major meanace, there Pillar of Souls and other Soul weapons are useless against them, reason why they have other special weapons to counter them. Other appearence was when a High Hierarchy Noth faced Omega (Anima: Beyond Fantasy), not Longinus had no effect on it. And the most recent Messenger, Bringeus, is pressumed to be one but there's next to no info about it aside that use Nemesis and one-shotted Nascal Mehirim. I think there's more appearence of them but right now I don't remember any other.
 
Makes it really hard to gauge their strenghts and weaknesses. You mentioned that soul weapons are useless against them - is there some lore information which expands more upon the reasons why? For example, are they confirmed to no longer having a soul? Or do they resist it?

Because in terms of Soulmanipulation, Naraku can make it work even against people who have confirmed high level of resistance to it regulary, let me just reposte this from another thread to underline the proficiency on Soulbased stuff he has:

At the beginning of the series, without being aware of her spiritual powers Kagome withstood getting her soul drawn out of her body - due to her soul erecting a barrier - and even after her soul finally was dragged out she called it back in.

Later in the series when Kagome was stronger and could actively use parts of her spiritual powerher soul got not only stole but even sucked in a pocket dimension inside a mirror - yet she was so powerfull that even while her soul was in another dimension she managed to force it back

Yet despite all of thatNaraku was able to twist her

-> Although she got her consciousness back after some time and later even broke free - but this shows what level of fortitude you need to have to withstand Narakus Soul Manipulation.
 
I can post what is written in the Bestiary (GoM edition):

Noth. A meaningless name for something that should not exist. These entities can not even be called monsters or nightmares; things like good and evil are irrelevant for entelechies that simply disbelieve everything in their path. In more than one sense, they could be considered the end of everything that exists.

The Noth are foreign entities that are impossible to understand or explain. The only thing that can be theorized about them is that they are devoid of concepts or something like a "nature", so they can not be linked to anything. And that is precisely what they are; absolutely nothing. They can't even be considered void elementals, as even beings like the Nosos Etrien are linked conceptually to the structure of existence. The Noth, however, do not respond to any rule or principle, as if they were strangers to absolutely everything.

The Noth are an almost unstoppable divine force. They manifest through vortices in different unrelated places and swarm aimlessly for a short period of time (never more than half an hour). They perceive the presence of things around them and approach those with a higher existential potential. Then they enter in contact with whatever has drawn their attention and consume it. There is no difference to them if it is an inanimate object or a living being; when someone tries to escape, the Noth just shred him until he dies or is unable to move. If they are attacked, the Noth respond showing clear signs of possessing disproportionate combat capabilities; even the weakest of them are creatures of aberrant power. Their appearance is difficult to explain. Physically there are many types and sizes, but their forms are always consistent with each other. All of them are completely white and their entire bodies seem to be made of a single substance, like a uniform mass that has different form. They also don't have internal organs; the Noth are completely compact. Interestingly, the surface of their skin is incapable of being stained in any way, so they retain their characteristic whitish color at all times. The Noth also usually have some kind of spiritual cord on some part of their body (usually in the area equivalent to their necks), which disappears after a few meters in some kind of existential vortex that moves with them.

Probably the appearance in which people perceive the Noth's are not even their true form (if they actually have one); it's just the way that the mind of those who contemplate them interprets what they are. Thus, two people who see the same Noth can agree in its general appearance, such as saying that it is a milky colored humanoid, but both would see it in a slightly different form. Noth are invisible to the human eye and can only be perceived by individuals able to see supernatural things or have a higher Gnosis (the higher it is above their Natura, the clearer they can see the Noth).

A Noth never communicates nor seem able to understand anything that surrounds it. In fact, only some of them (those who are considered superior ones), seem to have glimmers of intelligence. However, they never act in an organized manner; it is as if they are not even aware that there are others of them nearby.

The Noth don't generate existential energy nor can their skills be detected by magical, Ki or psychic abilities. They can still be affected by such powers, although it is completely impossible to alter their will or mind. For all purposes, it is as if they simply did not exist.

There's more in the Bestiary and in Gaia Vol II (Although this one isn't translated to english) but I do not ant to fill the thread with large amounts of text.
 
Thanks for these texts. They sound like a really interesting character concept. Albeit I dont really understand that at one hand they apparently are unbound by any form of logic or concept, yet on the other hand they still somehow follow certain logical reasoning, starting by things just as simple as interest for things if they catch their attention.

Unfortunately there is nothing which makes me any more the wiser how Soul Manipulation would work - I am leaning towards theorizing that they likely have no soul, seeing how the emphasis is on them being supposedly "nothing", but this is just a wild guess.

"Shredding" someone until he dies however is also something which makes me unsure how they would be able to kill Naraku, even his physical host, let alone his mind in the void, seeing how that is, in essense, at least an indicator that we are talking about them interacting physically in some form with their opposition - which are things Narakus host body can take on for days while regenerating at the same time.

-

I am unsure in which way Naraku would be able to effectively deal with the Noth, seeing how arbitrary their descriptions are - but its clear they are something beyond the regular A->B approach.

At the same time I dont see how they would deal with Narakus definetly potent Regenerationn, Immortality and Space trapping shenanigans.

And because in both cases there are too many questionmarks inconclusive is where I am leaning towards.
 
Fair point, although I doubt that space trapping would be effective. They'll attack directly the source of major power (the jewel), once destoryed their are going to the closest existencial energy source.

For everyone involved in the thread (refering to HI3), now you have more info to deal with and are freely to changes their respective vote.
 
Whats your take on the match then? Going by our exchange and the discussion we had so far? If a new angle presents itself of course the opinions on the outcome can change - but right now from what was said, what do you think would be a likely outcome more times than not?
 
Welp, I can't vote in my own thread, but we haven't discussed much about the other powers of the two characters. Naraku is unable to affects its soul and mind, and any status effect of any type is useless but he still capable to use harmful powers; this Noth do not have much powers besides vortex and being capable to damage the very essence of what it hit.
 
Ah yeha I forgot about that "cant vote on own thread" rule. I agree that going by what was said Narakus very broad array of powers is severely limited to do any lasting damage and I also agree that Noth naturally just has a very limited ability spectrum, which, together with their existance as a whole, is on a rather abstract descriptive level.

But regardless of all that - you have my thanks for making the wiki aware of Naraku (and Noth, I see they have no matches in their history?) to a more broader audience. Yay.
 
Noth used to have a match in its profile (Agaisnt Nocturn) but was removed due a revision...

I still not known what is Abstract Existance, maybe few beings in Anima qualify as such, but not sure.
 
Id still say Noth via incap

He'll just beat Naraku and the gem out of existence over and over again until one of them decides to stop and Naraku can barely even affect it
 
Yeha Naraku also has a match against Nocturne going on currently. Its interesting to see more ability based characters duking it out compared to just pure brawns like usual the case in a lot of mainstream series.
 
To be honest after having read through the Nocturne vs Naraku thread and this thread Naraku is way more powerful than I initially thought. I also don't know why Raven goes for inconclusive, seeing how much broken abilities he has. He should outright win, but Noth winning via his vortex and stuff should be completely out of the question. So I think Ravens reasoning is right but instead of inconclusive he should win. Someone who can withstand 995 MT and survive to an extent doesn't get bullied by someone who is 2.5MT. And aside from that I don't think Noth can do anything here. Naraku for strongest low 7B maybe?
 
995 megatons? That would be Large Mountain, not Small City that is it current rating.
 
Nah he doesn't scale to Mountain+,he withstood it for a bit but after that he needed to replace the damaged body parts.So 2.5MT won't do much honestly.His AP isn't near this level though as you can see on his profile just his durability.

Although maybe Raven can clarify on it,he is the most knowledgeable on InuYasha expert.
 
Both are Small City level, so no one here is surpassing 6.3 megatons, not sure where is the 995 megatons coming from.
 
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