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I put a haxxy guy against absolute nothing: Naraku VS. Noth

Welp, Naraku do not have that rating si I assume Naraku do not scale; Raven didn't comment about it so I pressume that is the case.

Meanwhile you can discuss about something else that isn't related to that AP
 
Well whether or not Narakus durability 100% scales to Sesshoumarus AP is something which needs to be discussed at the very least, yeha. I can see where Sig is coming from definetly. Naraku did not got instantly blown the heck out but this could also be due to his - at that time - sheer size. His body got pretty messed up from the attack. So no idea how to treat this specific feat in terms of getting the scaling or not to be honest.

However due to thinking about this I started to think about AP related stuff in the first place, something we have not really touched here and I think that, regardless how we view the 900 MT feat - Naraku scales to more than Noth can dish out definetly.

I dont have scans ready for this one but if you want to have a better visual understanding of it I can bring them later. Right now its pretty late and I am lazy so apology in advance for just the text explanation without the scans.

Totousai has an up to 2.5 MT feat in chapter 120.

InuYasha then learned his first generic Sword technique, the WindScar, which was superior to Toutousai from that point. Then Naraku upgraded his barrier and the Windscar was ineffective against the Barrier. Then InuYasha learned the Bakuryuha and the Red Tessaiga and could penetrate Narakus barrier. Then Naraku strenghtened his barrier again and the Red Tessaiga and the Bakuryuha were useless again.

An important note here is that the barrier is not just reflecting something, it is the own attack of InuYasha in addition to the enemies attack, both together being send back at the enemy.

So after Naraku upgraded his barrier for the third time, he withstood the at bare minimum 2.5MT from InuYashas attack + his own at the very least 2.5MT attack hitting his barrier - and then send all that back to InuYasha again.

So its Toutousai <WindScar< Barrier 1 < Red Tessaiga/Bakuryuha < Barrier 2

So Narakus regular barrier, which he usually has passively surrounding him, can tank at least 5MT of force - and overpower them himself.

Its still small city level and all happened in the first 300 chapters of the series, so I forgot about it in comparison to the way more exotic approach of the following almost 300 chapters of the rest of the series but yeha - Narakus is, even when we would discard the 900 MT feat, very very casual at the upper echelon of the small city scale and above the 2.5MT of the Noth.

Also of note is that the barrier doesnt stop at physical or magical attacks. They have also the feats of stopping intangible things like Souls trying to enter/leave carried by Kikyous Soulstealers - so they definetly would be an amazing help here in regards to a possible fisticuffs with the Noth.

Its a lot of wall of text here, if you want I can accumulate all the scans for it but yeha thats the gist of it.
 
Noth scale above 2.84 megatons, but pretty close. You're are free to change your vote, but take into account that barriers do not works against a Noth (principalities or above hierarchy), they can open breaches in reality and ignore any barrier.
 
well it was just something I wanted to note seeing how sig mentioned the AP stuff I thought it's just fair to dive into the topic more. Is there a way the Noth could negate his power nullification on eye contact? Or rather - what powers would be mulled from eye contact? His nulling comes with side effect of paralysis and fainting - both things I believe the Noth are not affected by. But which stuff of them would get nulled?
 
Noth haven't conventional powers, what they do are innate of its kind a nature, like human beings capable to eat or breath. Also, Noth do not have conventional eyes, they do not have organs, bones or anything similar, they are by all means made of nothing; so technically they have no "eyes".

Even if they have any power to negate it simply wouldn't work, only thing it can be done agaisnt them is "touching".
 
I was expecting something like this. Well but yeha- the ap thing is definitely something which reaffirms me that the moth can not down Naraku. Even just his physical host.

To further explain the scaling chain to give the full picture..

After his barrier which withstood the 5MT inuyasha and the main cast then searched for a new way to penetrate the barrier - and he upgraded his sword with the Kongosouha. From that point he could penetrate the barrier from Naraku again

Naraku then searched a way to deal with the kongosouha and found the meijou or armored shell. The meijou or armored shell withstood the kongosouha. Then inuyasha upgraded to the fake dragon scealimg Tessaiga and broke the armored shell. Then Naraku (technically moryoumaru) upgraded the meijou with the blood of kinka and ginka

Then inuyasha upgraded his sword to the flaming Tessaiga albeit this upgrade just worked one chapter. He then upgraded it to the true dragon scealed Tessaiga and could penetrate the meijou again and finally Naraku used shikon powers to strengthen the meijou one last time

From that point onwards he could no longer be physically harmed and only got damaged from purification or spatial powers

So after this long scaling chain it should be clear that his physical host body is definitely also at least on the 5MT++++ level

Unfortunately there never was a new accepted calc after chapter 120 so that till the final chapter 559 or so everyone scales down to totousai

Really a shame
 
So... The current match isn't valid or just assuming he is around 5 megatons for discussion purposes?
 
I have to admit I don't really know how the tiering works here to be honest. He is 5MT in AP. And isn't that what sets his tier? His own attack potency?
 
If he is 5 megatons then you can change its current rating in his page, but being less than two times stronger than a Noth wouldn't disregard this match. You can, however, change your vote if you wish.

@Sigurd, assuming Naraku is 5 megatons, what's your current vote? I assume that Naraku.
 
I also think that Naraku is sold short here tbh. Especially with the new dura scaling. Doesnt matter whether or not its unquantifiable higher than 5MT for both AP and dura or if its even somehow getting the 995MT scaling. In both cases its superior to the Noth. And all the other abilities as well as his immortality and regen should give him the win. Also what would stop Naraku to travel back in time and kill the Noth in an earlier time, if that is possible? He just has so many abilities so its hard to make a case against him tbh
 
Naraku, even with being able to hit the Noth. isn't helped by an AP or Durability advantage due to how Noth work
 
Naraku knows next to nothing about a Noth for him traveling back in time and do something, also Noth is an type of creature not a character, he can't just prevent Noth to "exist" (they do not even exist in a conventional way).
 
@HI3

From what I understood your initial argument was that Noth would beat down Naraku wasnt it? But how would that be possible when he lacks the AP for it, given the scalings for above 5MT AP to possible even 995MT Dura Naraku (not applicable right now, just a showcase to underline Narakus host bodies physical prowess).

I mean that win condition you speak off doesnt exist anymore with the new intel I proved I think
 
The Noth would absorb the jewel due its great amount of exisencial power rather than destroy it.
 
Okay now I need a little clarification. From what I got the Noth cause EE once their attack causes damage. I have not understood it that each and every single ability bypasses and negates any form durability - I have for example not seen Durability Negation as part of the profiles ability description.

Narakus Barrier would be enough to take a hit from the Noth - granted, afterwards it would be "erased" but it would not prevent Naraku from erecting a new barrier, Antoniefer mentioned that they can wiggle their way around barriers, due to their barrier nullification, however from what I understood this is a different ability than their EE on damage procedere. Meaning if Narakus barrier is about to be penetrated/negated, he can very simply teleport away and erect a new barrier. He has done similar things in canon just mere fractions of a second before he got hit by an otherwise life threatening existance erasure (its called purification inverse) attack.

Also, I dont think the Shikon Jewel would even be affected by the Noths mean to destroy it in the first place, seeing how it is not made out of any materia. It is tangible, yes. But this is simply the tangible form of souls compressed together, working as a catalysator for the Shikon Jewels Void and power with the real world.

Are there any feats / scenes where a fight with a Noth takes place? If so, would you be able to provide some sources for it maybe?
 
Noth do not erase everything they hit instantly, their "existencial damage" reduce the defenses of what they hit (causing additional damage and ignoring armor), is not exactly "I punch you thus you no longer exist", but as the text written above (I think is written there), if they destroy the target it will dissapear.

Doesn't matter if the jewel is tangible or not, if it has enough existencial energy it can be destroyed by them, they little care about any nature since they aren't bound to the rules of reality. See this text:

Alien Entities: The Noth are not based or follow any of the rules of existence. Therefore they have certain unique characteristics that all of them have. First, the Noth can harm any creature, regardless of any special immunity which it may possess. This affects both innate powers, spells or even Gnostic capabilities, regardless of value or degree.
 
But that would go against the Noth beating down Naraku, wouldnt it? Because they lack the power to destroy Narakus host body in the first place.

If they attack him the very first thing they attack is his barrier - which they can destroy and erase maybe, seeing how they are below in AP value than Narakus barrier is in Dura value. But that doesnt mean they erased Narakus ability to put up another barrier. And they would not be able to destroy his physical host body, which is even stronger than his barrier.
 
If Naraku can regen from the jewel then no, Noth can't permanetly destroy him without destroying/absorbing the jewel first. Remeber that Noth can bend space, he can attack directly inside the barrier as their description says.

Vortex: The Noth can move through vortices in reality at will, either their whole body or just part of it. This transport ignores any kind of barrier, including those based on energy, as long as they do not have a huge existential power or were created by beings whose Gnosis is not 15 points higher than their Natura or have Gnosis 35 or more. Vortex can also be used offensively, either to appear next to the target and attack him, or even to move only parts of the Noth to attack. This second option can be frighteningly effective in combat since the Principality can directly reach the body of its enemies, ignoring the vast majority of protections, either natural or supernatural. Therefore, any Supernatural Shield or Blocking Skill takes a penalty of -40 to the defense ability against an attack of this nature.

Mmm, now I wonder, what would be the Naraku's gnosis? wouldn't surpass 35 but even at that value could avoid Noth to attack inside of the barrier.
 
Yeha, I understand that he can bypass his barrier now. So the Noths attack hits Narakus body.

But Narakus body, even without his shield, if we assume that the Noth directly hammer onto his body and ignores the Shield, is significantly stronger than the Barrier in the first place, seeing how the host body absorbed the Meijou and gets the full durability scaling

And since you stated that the ability doesnt work like that:

"I punch you thus you no longer exist",

but instead like this

"if they destroy the target it will dissapear."

we have to account for the likelihood of them destroying and therefore making his body disappear. Which is low in my eyes.

.-

The Gnosis is an interesting concept. What is so different between Gnosis 35 and higher? What special traits would a Gnosis 40 have which a Gnosis 35 could never compete with?
 
Ahh you mean the AP difference, yes yeah, Naraku is significally stronger an can tank a couple of punches, however existencial damage increase the damage done, wouldn't negate durability but it decrease the defenses of its targets; one punch wouldn't mean insta destruction necessary.

Explaining gnosis here would be a little difficult,it like a measure of how high is the power of a being or object to alter reality and influence in the flow of souls; is not something related to intelligence nor strength. You do not necessary have to alter reality to have elevated gnosis, put opposing or standing agianst those who have those powers would means that the creature/object have an elevated gnosis.

Few effects involve from affinity, semi-immortality, no needs, elemental control, meanwhile higher gnosis could give you true immortality, fate/probability control, existencial manifestations, great amounts of immunities, and more.
 
Well this lookin incon then. His AP is not enough to oneshot, this type of EE wont bypass type 9 and absorption wont work because Naraku has already been completely absorbed and has re-absorbed his enemy from the inside out in canonly. If he's not destroying the jewel somehow Naraku wont die.
 
If the Jewel is that strong by durability alone then he wouldn't be able to do so, however, if it due a certain ability of the pearl such Invulnerability then Noth would just ignore it and would be able to destroy it.

Isn't Inuyasha spatial's cutting dura negation?
 
InuYashas spatial Cutting is Dura negating usually yeha. His first Meidou (in the form of an Orb) already is, since its a durability negating dimensional BFR move. And its upgraded form is a higher level spatial cutting, working even against people who previously had resisted the Orb spatial stuff (Only Narakus host body). The Jewel was unaffected by both.
 
There is 6 votes, but Sigurd voted by Naraku and HI3 by Noth, Incon has 4 votes.
 
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