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Tabuu´s waves are not omnidrecctional

Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress

Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress

1,413
65
As seen on a previous thread about Tabuu fighting a certain monkey boy, ive expressed how absurd was to consider the wave attack omnidirectional despite the various ccontradictions there were about it.

First, what is "omnidiretional?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnidirectional

In simple terms, it means every possible direction, so a beam that is considered omnidirectional should not only go in all directions, not just 360, but in a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_degree.

Whicch would mean that a omnidirectional would be like a sphere instead of a disc as shown in these three instancces Tabuu has done the attack.

Note: This thread will be assuming the final fight against tabuu to be PIS.

1.- SUBSPACE CUTSCENE

https://youtu.be/oU2CzynZqmI?t=45m4s

Tabuu12
Ctabuuwaves
In this scene, we see Tabuu launch his FULL POWER waves at the fighters, as shown in the screencaps, those are not spherical and expand on a disc like fashion, thus, implying that it ccould be dodged by going above or below it.
This is backed up by all fighters being defeated by being struck directly from the blast, and not a single one of them is above nor below the wave.


So, in cutscenes, it is 100% not omnidirectional by any shape nor form.


2.- GAMEPLAY

Not only tier 7 figures being able to hurt tabuu is PIS, some people on this wikia consider this fight to be "canonical" to what he can do, which is biased and unreasonable, but ill be explaining how this is not omnidirectional either and the obvious bias against some of Tabuu´s weaknesses.

(No damage run on Tabuu.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBWAlLKEp0

Tabuu2eo
2.1 The waves in this fight are not shown to go on a spherical shape at all, as they do not affecct the background nor anything in front of tabuu, its a 360 degree disk once again, and this, not omnidirectional.

Specially because of the 2D perspective.


Not to mention the waves can be dodged by side stepping.

Yeah, you gotta acccept game mecchanics if you are going to use game mechanics, guys.


2.2 0:36 onwards.

Tabuu´s teleport has a cooldown, and oncce he starts attacking either by surrounding himself by eletricity or slashing at the opponent he cannot move.

Again, if you are willing to use attacks from a PIS fight, you gotta accept all of its weaknesses too.


---


Thats it.
 
iirc Kal, Cal & me already disagreed with this and I'm pretty sure that explaining why would be to repeat the same stuff completely ignored in that Tabuu vs Goku thread.
 
I disagree as well.

And as @Dragonmasterxyz said, Keep it civiled, which I'm pretty sure was the reason why the Goku vs Tabuu thread got shut down. And don't assume people are biased.
 
And, neither Dialga nor Arceus makes appearances in the Subspace emmisary.

Seriously, it makes no sense to scale to them when they have no canon interaction with Tabuu, and the "looks at like like they were just toys" is one of the worst arguments around.


2-A Animal Crossing because the villager can play an NES at home and look at the Zelda, Metroid and Mario verses like games?
 
>Note: This thread will be assuming the final fight against tabuu to be PIS.

As I told you before, harming Tabuu is PIS, Tabuu's attacks aren't.

>his FULL POWER waves

His later waves were not less powerful, if anything he was bloodlusted.

>Not only tier 7 figures being able to hurt tabuu is PIS, some people on this wikia consider this fight to be "canonical" to what he can do, which is biased and unreasonable

Based on what... ? Everyone canonically defeated Tabuu, they don't scale to him in terms of what we can reasonably assume of how powerful they are but how on Earth would you go from that to his attacks in his fight suddenly not being applicable to what he can do? What?

>The waves in this fight are not shown to go on a spherical shape at all, as they do not affecct the background nor anything in front of tabuu

If they had an spherical shape we were not be able to see Tabuu immediately using that attack again, and also his pseudo-Jesus pose.

>Specially because of the 2D perspective.

>Not to mention the waves can be dodged by side stepping.

They are omnidirectional for the same reasons you are mentioning.

>And, neither Dialga nor Arceus makes appearances in the Subspace emmisary.

Who the f*ck cares? They are still part of the Smash-verse.

>Seriously, it makes no sense to scale to them when they have no canon interaction with Tabuu

Then I suppose that Cell doesn't scale and isn't >>>> to Frieza because they also have no canon interaction.

>and the "looks at like like they were just toys" is one of the worst arguments around.

You should research this verse, starting and ending with the intro of the first game.

>2-A Animal Crossing because the villager can play an NES at home and look at the Zelda, Metroid and Mario verses like games?

False equalization, those are not real in the Animal Crossing verse.

>"efficcient" way

...what?
 
I just started reading what you said, and we already have a major problem.

>Note: This thread will be assuming the final fight against tabuu to be PIS.

As I told you before, harming Tabuu is PIS, Tabuu's attacks aren't.


Explain this obvious bias, the fight itself would be PIS because its gameplay its designed around fighting Tabuu with the smash bros fighters in mind.

Like i said, you cannot just chose the most convenient outcome for you.
 
If his attacks are so canon, then say this "I acccept that the waves are not omnidirecctional and dodgeable and the teleport has a cooldown" anything else is just wank.
 
>Not only tier 7 figures being able to hurt tabuu is PIS, some people on this wikia consider this fight to be "canonical" to what he can do, which is biased and unreasonable

This argument is silly, to say the least. First off, there's a diffference between PIS and outlier. PIS is say, Ganon turning everyone into stone the instant they see him, and goes h2h with Link. Outlier is a character being portrayed out of their ordinary scale. The Smashers vs Tabuu is the latter, not the former. Second off, even if it is the former, it literally doesn't change that's how the fight went down. What if I said Mewtwo can't use its in-game learnset because it can be beaten by Wobbufet? Tabuu showcases his moves just like Master Hand, Duon, or any other boss or even Smasher does.
 
We aren't. By your logic, Tabuu's waves would literally be his only projectile as all of his other projectile based attacks are used in the boss fight against him. You've been debunked repeatedly both in this thread and in Goku vs Tabuu and we're the ones who are biased? Take that nonsense somewhere else, we have standards for how you should behave here and you clearly aren't reaching them.

Edit: This was directed at Asuka, not Cal. I got ninja'd.
 
Because people are ignoring the facct that the attacks themselves are not shown in a canonical fashion because, as you argue, he would one shot all of the fighters at once by raw AP alone.


So the entire fight itself is not logical to what he cannot do in canon, aka the cutscenes, where it is clearly shown his waves are not omnidirectional.
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
Because people are ignoring the facct that the attacks themselves are not shown in a canonical fashion because, as you argue, he would one shot all of the fighters at once by raw AP alone.


So the entire fight itself is not logical to what he cannot do in canon, aka the cutscenes, where it is clearly shown his waves are not omnidirectional.
Click to expand...
They are shown in a canon fashion. The boss fight.

The outcome of the fight is Plot Induced Stupidity. The fight itself isn't.
 
You've been debunked repeatedly both in this thread and in Goku vs Tabuu and we're the ones who are biased?


What the hell are you on about? You are the ones who cannot prove that the waves are omnidirectional.


And even if the fight itself against Tabuu wasnt PIS, it is still NOT omni direcctional in any shape nor fashion as proven on the OP
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
So the entire fight itself is not logical to what he cannot do in canon, aka the cutscenes
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ King Crimson was in Brawl??? That explains everything...

I have a new main.
 
So, lemmne get this straight.

You all argue the fight itself IS canonical, but the result is PIS.


Speccially when the attaccks themselves are designed to be fought by smash bros fighters, and even if it was canon, it is still not omni directional?


Seriously, if you argue it is so canon, then the teleport has a cooldown, if you cannot admit to this, you are just ccherry picking.
 
For the record, slow down the clip between 45:07 and 45:10. We can indeed see the Off Waves expanding on much more than just the x axis.

Also, the fact that you can't avoid Off Waves anywhere on the screen unless you spotdodge (which is actual game mechanics, as I proved on the previous thread) proves omnidirectionality.
 
Thats literally a ring around Tabuu that isnt moving anywhere, cal.
Notomi
Its literally just going as a disk in 360 degrees.


It doesnt prove omnidirecctionality at all because it doesnt affect anything than the X axis, and saying that the attack being able to be dodged by spotdodging is game gamemechanics but the fight is ccanonical and acctually represents what tabuu can do is literally just bias.++


Decide already, is the fight accurate to how Tabuu fights (including his weaknesses) or not?
 
That ring is clearly expanding outwards before it cuts away. What else could t affect on any other axis? While we see it expanding, the only thing that could possibly be affected are the Smashers (plus, given that they weren't level with Tabuu, that's definitely the z-axis).

That has absolutely nothing to do with bias. Spot dodging, a literal mechanic in the games, which can be used to temporarily avoid explosions and giant lasers, is clearly a game mechanic. No doubt about it. I guess Samus's Zero Laser is as thin as a Light Arrow because it can be spot dodged...
 
Even then, it is not omnidirecctional at best, its just a single ring on the y axis and multiple of them in the x axis.


It it had multiple rings literally going 360 degrees in both axis at the same time, aka a sphere.


---


And it has a ton to do with bias, because you are igfnoring the weaknesses like how it is NOT shown to be omni directional in gameplay AND his teleport has a massive cooldown and that he cannot move when attaccking by electrical orbs or slashing at the opponent.
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
Even then, it is not omnidirecctional at best, its just a single ring on the y axis and multiple of them in the x axis.


It it had multiple rings literally going 360 degrees in both axis at the same time, aka a sphere.


---


And it has a ton to do with bias, because you are igfnoring the weaknesses like how it is NOT shown to be omni directional in gameplay AND his teleport has a massive cooldown and that he cannot move when attaccking by electrical orbs or slashing at the opponent.
Click to expand...
First you claim it's omnidirectional only in gameplay then you say it isn't omnidirectional in gameplay. Make up your mind.
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
And it has a ton to do with bias, because you are igfnoring the weaknesses like how it is NOT shown to be omni directional in gameplay AND his teleport has a massive cooldown and that he cannot move when attacking by electrical orbs or slashing at the opponent.
Click to expand...
...is this a joke?

Are you really using the argument that Tabuu teleports in front of the Smasher and does nothing as a sign of cooldown? And that he doesn't turn or move around while he's attacking?

Yes. You're right. Also, Link stops time by shuffling through his weapons, Cloud suffers cooldown after a single sword swing, Darkrai's Dark Void has a 50% chance of missing, etc.

This is more game mechanics than the spot dodging thing. Seriously, pick any boss battle in the game. Hell, pick any boss battle from Kirby, which the fights are based off of. You're getting a chance to attack. Dude teleports back on the stage from out of range to do absolutely nothing after his attack, and you're telling me that's a weakness. Hell, this argument is even stupider, as one of his attacks is teleportation spam, and literally all of his moves are preceded by him teleporting.
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
And, neither Dialga nor Arceus makes appearances in the Subspace emmisary.
Seriously, it makes no sense to scale to them when they have no canon interaction with Tabuu, and the "looks at like like they were just toys" is one of the worst arguments around.
Click to expand...
Address just this because I don't want any part in the Omnidirectional stuff.

"Having no canon interaction with x" is one of the most worst arguments you could use here. It doesn't matter if they have an interaction with them or not. They see them as literal toys, meaning their power is seen as nothing but a complete joke. Actually, if they see Arceus and the CT as nothing but literal toys, then Tabuu or Master Hand suddenly needing to suddenly grace them with their presence, let alone get in a fight with them, is 100% pointless and uneccesary.

Plus, this logic can work against you and other verses (other than DB). Kaguya never interacts with Madara so I guess she doesnt scale above him all of a sudden. Aizen never fought against Ulquiorra or any Espada so I guess he can't scale above them? Arceus never interacts with Pikachu or any non-legendary so does that mean he's weaker then them? No. Absolutely not to any of this. Smash is no different.
 
"X sees Y as a literal toy" is drawing very close to fanon and I don't know why it's being repeated like it means anything of substance.

They are moving, breathing beings that turn to trophies when dealt seemingly any direct damage; the "like toys" simularity is just that- a simularity. Not the de facto relationship between them and Master Hand.

Never is it stated or otherwise shown (to my knowledge) that Master Hand or Tabuu can, at will, return them to toy form. Master Hand does not manipulate them as if they are toys but, instead, we were given a glimpse of MH seemingly commanding Ganondorf as exactly what he is- a thinking being.

Tabuu likewise had to control MH and enact a huge plan involving an army rather than directly stomp the entire world into oblivion. The only way he even forces them to obey the toy relationship is by charging up an attack and hitting them hard enough to bust them into that form. It's not the natural way he sees them- he has to physically act to force them into that form. Even then they are not "toys" but frozen statues. We even see DK chained up because he's still a threat if someone unthaws him.

Also yes, choosing to use the gameplay video only for the parts that back your argument while ignoring anything that contradicts it is pretty close to, if not THE, definition of bias.
 
Okay, before we continue someone tell me what "Omni" means.

and then put it next to the word "Directional".


Then, most arguments about this being omni directional shall fall like dominos, because the attack is not shown to be that in gameplay nor cutsccenes.
 
@Asuka. Omni, meaning all. Direction, meaning the course along which something or someone moves.

Now tell me, where on the entire stage of the battle with Tabuu can you evade the attack? Tabuu is at the middle of the screen. Be above him, below him, offscreen, etc. and you'll still get hit.

@Friendly. Tabuu is explicitly stated to be unable to leave Subspace. Master Hand is under the control of Tabuu since before Kirby fights Mario, so any interaction he has with Ganondorf is actually interactions with Tabuu, who again, can't leave subspace and has to use outside help to achieve his goal.
 
All directions, yes. That means that it would cover the X, Y and Z axis. If the attack was represented as omnidirecctional, the waves would be speherical, would be moving towards the screen and away from it.


And no, you cannot dodge it beccause the fight itself is in a 2Dimensional perspective (Aka Y axis), and by using Spotdodge, you CAN evade it.


Seriously, you think that something covering an entire floating "stage" means its omnidirectional? No, thats wrong because of reasons above.
 
You know, im surprised to HAVE to expain this, but look at this.
300px-Coord planes color.svg
In gameplay, Tabuu´s waves only move on the Z and Y axis, and could be dodged by moving to the other side of the wave.

In the cutsccenes, it launches a papel thin wave that covers the Y and X axis and could be dodged by jumping or ducking under it fast enough.


If Tabuu´s attacck was omnidirecctional, it would have to go 360 degrees in every single one of those degrees on all three axis.
 
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