- 8,438
- 3,293
Nope. Not the tier. 2-B looks pretty good.
But oh man; the Powers and Abilities of these guys are, for lack of a better word, wanked. Let's break down what and why this stuff is wrong.
Overall
Everything in here is just a misconception of the powers of all the Pokemon God Tiers and is pervasive throughout most or all of their profiles.
Conceptual Manipulation: This is probably the biggest offender here. The Creation Trio have never shown the ability to manipulate their concept. They embody it, but they do not destroy/attack conceptually. Same for Arceus, but he only created them and doesn't embody them.
Void Manipulation: What Palkia, Dialga, and Arceus all show is Space-Time destruction. They do not use a Void to achieve this, they simply use powers they have already displayed to destroy space-time and thus objects within it. This is not separate Void Manipulation. Even if it was some kind of extra erasure, it would be Existence Erasure, not Void Manipulation.
Immortality: Type 4 for all, Type 9 for Arceus. They are not gods; they are Pokemon with god-like powers. They are never called gods by anyone other than star-struck humans, nor ever hinted at being immortal because of such a title.
Immunity to Soul Manipulation: It was never stated that any of the CT "predate souls" to my knowledge. Also, even if they did, they likely still obtained one when such souls came into being. But I still ask for the "predating souls" part, since I don't remember Pokemon ever referencing souls.
Causality Manipulation & Acausality: "Distorting natural law" needs to be put into context here. The CT using their powers to distort the world is not causality manipulation. It is just Space, Time, and Antimatter manipulation, respectively. Causality or causal progression is never broken, and Arceus is directly subject to causality, as shown by the entire plot of Arceus and the Jewel of Life.
"Spirit" Destruction: Lumping Knowledge, Will, and Emotion destruction into one. Basically, no. Dialga and Palkia have the ability to "make a world without spirit" and "destroy spirit". Why can they do this? By destroying life and consciousness. This is simply universal destruction that ends all life, not any special "spirit"-attacking ability.
Immeasurable Speed: Comes from Dialga. This just makes zero sense. Dialga can't travel "beyond time" or "exceed time". That is like me saying I can travel "beyond myself" or "exceed myself". This doesn't work, while Infinite works better.
Arceus
I'm sorry llama-god. Time to step down.
Power Nullification: The parts from the TCG abilities are fine. However, I don't remember anything implying it made Destiny Tower.
Non-Corporeality: Never shown. Unlike the CT, which have shown Non-Corporeal Forms, I don't think Arceus, even with all its plates, has shown this.
Dream Manipulation: Never implied to be the "booming voice". This is speculation, not implication. Arceus is never mentioned here.
Use of All Moves: Absolutely never shown. Not shown in movies/anime and its in-game movepool reflects this fact. I don't know where this comes from outside of speculation.
Resistance to Telepathy: "Resisted the Telepathic abilities of Sheena and her ancestor." I should hope so? A 4-D character resists 3-D hax by default. If Arceus had bee hurt by this there would be a problem.
Magnetism Manipulation: Was it stated that Arceus himself made the Mountain Magnetic? This seems to be a natural property.
Darkness Manipulation: What "darkness" attack is this? Foul Play? Nothing is elaborated on here.
Mind, Memory, Will, Empathic, and Illusion Manipulation: Has he ever used the Lake Trio's abilities?
Information Manipulation: See above and see the Lake Trio's section.
Law Manipulation: No. Unless literally every creator god gets this, neither does Arceus. He makes space and time. This happens for all creators.
Physics Manipulation: No reasoning whatsoever is given here.
Power Mimicry/Absorption: When he has taken someone's powers from them and put them into a plate?
Chaos Manipulation/Embodiment: Spawning into/from primordial chaos =/= embodying it, nor has Arceus used it.
Attacks Incorporeals: His Omnipotent ability lets him hit all types, including Ghost. But unless we give all Pokemon, save normal types, this ability, Arceus doesn't get it either.
Resistance to Power Mimicry: This is 100% game mechanics. Abilities that would otherwise break the game cannot be copied, and thus Multitype falls into this. Also Silvally should never be mentioned. RKS System is never tied directly to Arceus, even though it sounds the same. A cheeky nod to the intention? Sure. A legit comparison/indication? No.
Palkia/Dialga
These two are similar enough that I can tackle them together, though they do have some individual differences.
Non-Corporeality: This only applies when they are not in their avatars. Their avatar forms are perfectly corporeal.
Palkia - Healing Negation: Massive NLF here. Heal Block, at best, stops Deoxys' Recover, which is Low-Mid (High-Mid not applicable here since that takes a ton of time and is not the move Recover).
Most other significant issues fall into the Overall section.
Giratina
Non-Corporeality: See Palkia/Dialga.
Resistance to Mind Manipulation: The Red Chains were not used on Giratina if I recall correctly. The Capture Stylus needs context and could easily be similar to the Red Chains or be merely game mechanics.
Power Nullification: Shadow Force doesn't belong here. Shadow Force allows Giratina to disappear and leave the physical world temporarily, which allows attacks and effects to miss. This isn't special nullification. The other two abilities here, however, are legit.
Power Negation: A new world can't be made because Giratina just interferes. He doesn't have some special power to make this impossible outright.
Destroying Things in the Distortion World: Literally just Dialga glowing as evidence.
Physics Manipulation: See Arceus.
Lake Trio
These three are close together, and I'm trying to not have 10 sections. Pretty much zero explanations for all of these abilities, but let's look at the big offenders. I'm just going to list these off, since it's basically just "no evidence" for all of them. Please remember, anything that applies to these guys in "Overall" should be noted here.
Mesprit: Power Mimicry, Reality Warping, and Soul Manipulation.
Azelf: Reality Warping and Soul Manipulation.
Uxie: Reality Warping, Information Manipulation, Telepathy (not a gripe on justification but the evidence picture has a solid 10 pixels), Endure (massive NLF here and needs a major explanation), and Soul Manipulation.
Conclusion
Things need a big clean-up. Ranging from lack of justification, misinterpretation, or exaggeration of an existing ability, these guys need some serious love.
They would also be subject to the new Concept Manipulation standards, falling under Type 3, and any new standards agreed upon with the Abstract Existence thread.
But oh man; the Powers and Abilities of these guys are, for lack of a better word, wanked. Let's break down what and why this stuff is wrong.
Overall
Everything in here is just a misconception of the powers of all the Pokemon God Tiers and is pervasive throughout most or all of their profiles.
Conceptual Manipulation: This is probably the biggest offender here. The Creation Trio have never shown the ability to manipulate their concept. They embody it, but they do not destroy/attack conceptually. Same for Arceus, but he only created them and doesn't embody them.
Void Manipulation: What Palkia, Dialga, and Arceus all show is Space-Time destruction. They do not use a Void to achieve this, they simply use powers they have already displayed to destroy space-time and thus objects within it. This is not separate Void Manipulation. Even if it was some kind of extra erasure, it would be Existence Erasure, not Void Manipulation.
Immortality: Type 4 for all, Type 9 for Arceus. They are not gods; they are Pokemon with god-like powers. They are never called gods by anyone other than star-struck humans, nor ever hinted at being immortal because of such a title.
Immunity to Soul Manipulation: It was never stated that any of the CT "predate souls" to my knowledge. Also, even if they did, they likely still obtained one when such souls came into being. But I still ask for the "predating souls" part, since I don't remember Pokemon ever referencing souls.
Causality Manipulation & Acausality: "Distorting natural law" needs to be put into context here. The CT using their powers to distort the world is not causality manipulation. It is just Space, Time, and Antimatter manipulation, respectively. Causality or causal progression is never broken, and Arceus is directly subject to causality, as shown by the entire plot of Arceus and the Jewel of Life.
"Spirit" Destruction: Lumping Knowledge, Will, and Emotion destruction into one. Basically, no. Dialga and Palkia have the ability to "make a world without spirit" and "destroy spirit". Why can they do this? By destroying life and consciousness. This is simply universal destruction that ends all life, not any special "spirit"-attacking ability.
Immeasurable Speed: Comes from Dialga. This just makes zero sense. Dialga can't travel "beyond time" or "exceed time". That is like me saying I can travel "beyond myself" or "exceed myself". This doesn't work, while Infinite works better.
Arceus
I'm sorry llama-god. Time to step down.
Power Nullification: The parts from the TCG abilities are fine. However, I don't remember anything implying it made Destiny Tower.
Non-Corporeality: Never shown. Unlike the CT, which have shown Non-Corporeal Forms, I don't think Arceus, even with all its plates, has shown this.
Dream Manipulation: Never implied to be the "booming voice". This is speculation, not implication. Arceus is never mentioned here.
Use of All Moves: Absolutely never shown. Not shown in movies/anime and its in-game movepool reflects this fact. I don't know where this comes from outside of speculation.
Resistance to Telepathy: "Resisted the Telepathic abilities of Sheena and her ancestor." I should hope so? A 4-D character resists 3-D hax by default. If Arceus had bee hurt by this there would be a problem.
Magnetism Manipulation: Was it stated that Arceus himself made the Mountain Magnetic? This seems to be a natural property.
Darkness Manipulation: What "darkness" attack is this? Foul Play? Nothing is elaborated on here.
Mind, Memory, Will, Empathic, and Illusion Manipulation: Has he ever used the Lake Trio's abilities?
Information Manipulation: See above and see the Lake Trio's section.
Law Manipulation: No. Unless literally every creator god gets this, neither does Arceus. He makes space and time. This happens for all creators.
Physics Manipulation: No reasoning whatsoever is given here.
Power Mimicry/Absorption: When he has taken someone's powers from them and put them into a plate?
Chaos Manipulation/Embodiment: Spawning into/from primordial chaos =/= embodying it, nor has Arceus used it.
Attacks Incorporeals: His Omnipotent ability lets him hit all types, including Ghost. But unless we give all Pokemon, save normal types, this ability, Arceus doesn't get it either.
Resistance to Power Mimicry: This is 100% game mechanics. Abilities that would otherwise break the game cannot be copied, and thus Multitype falls into this. Also Silvally should never be mentioned. RKS System is never tied directly to Arceus, even though it sounds the same. A cheeky nod to the intention? Sure. A legit comparison/indication? No.
Palkia/Dialga
These two are similar enough that I can tackle them together, though they do have some individual differences.
Non-Corporeality: This only applies when they are not in their avatars. Their avatar forms are perfectly corporeal.
Palkia - Healing Negation: Massive NLF here. Heal Block, at best, stops Deoxys' Recover, which is Low-Mid (High-Mid not applicable here since that takes a ton of time and is not the move Recover).
Most other significant issues fall into the Overall section.
Giratina
Non-Corporeality: See Palkia/Dialga.
Resistance to Mind Manipulation: The Red Chains were not used on Giratina if I recall correctly. The Capture Stylus needs context and could easily be similar to the Red Chains or be merely game mechanics.
Power Nullification: Shadow Force doesn't belong here. Shadow Force allows Giratina to disappear and leave the physical world temporarily, which allows attacks and effects to miss. This isn't special nullification. The other two abilities here, however, are legit.
Power Negation: A new world can't be made because Giratina just interferes. He doesn't have some special power to make this impossible outright.
Destroying Things in the Distortion World: Literally just Dialga glowing as evidence.
Physics Manipulation: See Arceus.
Lake Trio
These three are close together, and I'm trying to not have 10 sections. Pretty much zero explanations for all of these abilities, but let's look at the big offenders. I'm just going to list these off, since it's basically just "no evidence" for all of them. Please remember, anything that applies to these guys in "Overall" should be noted here.
Mesprit: Power Mimicry, Reality Warping, and Soul Manipulation.
Azelf: Reality Warping and Soul Manipulation.
Uxie: Reality Warping, Information Manipulation, Telepathy (not a gripe on justification but the evidence picture has a solid 10 pixels), Endure (massive NLF here and needs a major explanation), and Soul Manipulation.
Conclusion
Things need a big clean-up. Ranging from lack of justification, misinterpretation, or exaggeration of an existing ability, these guys need some serious love.
They would also be subject to the new Concept Manipulation standards, falling under Type 3, and any new standards agreed upon with the Abstract Existence thread.