These have been done 900 billion times, but me and a friend have put together some stuff that puts BB and the Mystic Code Servants at 2-A. Funny thing is I helped my friend make this for Comicvine, and I am using it for VsBattles. This we also be debunking things such as Types being the god tiers anymore and Arcueid tanking deletion
First I'd like to point out that you shouldn't scale CCC characters to other timeline counterparts.The first bunch of this most of you guys probably already know, but please continue.
BB 4D manipulation
BB is able to manipulate the Far Side fo the Moon Cell, which is a higher dimensional space where no living being is capable of living in aside from Gilgamesh. It is a 4D space where only time itself exist, and in a much different way.
"There also exists the Far Side of the Moon (µ£êÒü«ÞúÅÕü┤, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the "exterior of the world", and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned. Due to his power, Gilgamesh is not allowed to appear on the Near Side of the Moon, so he sleeps in the Far Side instead. Nothing else should be able to exist there because it is the territory of nil, and intelligent life forms should not be allowed or be able to exist there. It is not within normal time, allowing for a series of communications over eighteen days from Earth to take less than a microsecond within the timeframe of the Moon Cell." Lower dimensional beings such as Hakuno and the other masters are only able to exist in the Far Side after BB reconstructed it.
"Due to BB surfacing and gaining power as an Advanced A.I., she begins an extensive reconstruction and periods of resetting to work towards her goals. This allows for someone to contact Gilgamesh even when it should be impossible. The end result of her work is Cursed Cutting Crater, a real space in the present, past, and future. Establishing it as a "place", even Masters can exist there. It is not possible to hack the Moon Cell however much time is spent, but she is able to take control of it by placing herself in "unlimited time" through the power of the primordial goddesses she has taken into herself." < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Cell#Far_Side
This shows that BB is already capable of manipulating 4D space, which is a low feat for her. The fact that lower dimensional beings can't even EXIST in higher dimensions (without inteference from BB) implies higher dimensions are completely/infinitely superior to lower dimensions in CCC.
Multiversal BB
Saying BB only has a higher dimensional perspective/mind is wrong, as not only has she existed in 4D space, but Rin also said "think of it as a higher dimensional existence", meaning it isn't just a perspective.
BB fused with the Moon Cell, which stores all possible timelines/futures that can happen, which is possibly (and logically should be) an infinite amount.
"Rani :: The Holy Grail is an observational device that simulates the future of the Earth, and stores those records continuously, at regular intervals. It has been doing so since the beginning of human history. Though it is supposed, an infinity of futures are recorded here in the moon. To obtain the Moon Cell means to be able to search out the future you wish for from among all of those, and put it into effect." < < < https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/entry-141-ellipsis/
We learn from Twice Piecemen in Fate/Extra (the game before Fate/Extra CCC) that the futures that Rani speak of are indeed infinite.
https://s9.postimg.cc/6dn1vbg4f/Untitled2.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/wcmtp68vz/Untitled3.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/weajnwevz/Untitled4.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/6iqt4rxnj/Untitled5.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/htfonsibz/Untitled6.png
So we now know the Moon Cell is so powerful that it can simulate and actually STORE these infinite futures/possibilities, meaning BB has the power to simulate and store infinite futures/possibilitiess after fusing with the Moon Cell. BB also has the destructive power to show for it and can wipe out reality and rewrite it. Also simulating and storing infinite possibilities ALONE is storing infinite different outcomes, which is what timelines are for the most part, infinite different outcomes. The fact these mere possibilities can be stored means they are physical. Also I'd argue simulate and store>destroy. But wait, there's more. Your Vsbattles put a false description of BB's Cursed Cutting Crater, as the wiki says it can wipe out DIMENSIONS.
"Cursed Cutting Crater (C. C. C.)
An attack on the world by BB in control of the Moon Cell.
Also called the spirit particle imaginary pit.
A world purge by means of event rewriting, making maximum use of the EX skill "Potnia Theron" BB had acquired.
The goddess who is the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth is, in other words, the "root" that created all creation.
This Noble Phantasm is an anti-world Noble Phantasm that outputs information like an ultra-precise 3d printer and crushes the present world with the world desired by the user.
The space eroded by BB becomes imaginary space and a curse that consumes reality. CCC as the name suggests is a cursed pit that bores out reality.
In addition to scattering all objects inside on an atomic level and reconstructing them, it is capable of writing over and rewriting information of fields such as luck and coincidence.
While theoretical, it is also thought possible to distort the time axis by interfering with gravity fields and rewrite the law of cause and effect.
When used in combat, BB's familiars, the shapeshifters engulf the target, and after turning into a sphere, is wiped out of existence along with the target and the dimension with it." < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/BB#References > > >
< Actual feat of using it.
Calling CCC planet level because it's called "Anti World" is vastly out of context, especially when it mentions it can erase dimensions "BB's familiars, the shapeshifters engulf the target, and after turning into a sphere, is wiped out of existence along with the target and the dimension with it." Which brings me on to my next point...
5D BB
Previously, it stated BB's Cursed Cutting Crater Noble Phantasm can wipe out her enemy and the dimension they are in. BB used Cursed Cutting Crater in the Far Side of Angelica Cage, which is once again 4D space. BB using Cursed Cutting Crater in 4D space means she wiped out the fourth dimension of time entirely, so how did she survive? If 4D space is wiped out, then all that's left is 5D space, and as we know from previous statements, lower dimensional beings can't even EXIST in higher dimensional spaces and are erased immidiately. After using Cursed Cutting Crater, BB is still alive and well, meaning BB is at least a 5D entity. < < <
It makes sense, since BB fused with the Moon Cell, that is so powerful that it can store infinite futures along with other spaces such as the Near Side and Far Side, this shows the Moon Cell's power is beyond basic 4D infinity Also even though BB reconstructed the Far Side so masters can live in it, Rin still described it as 4D space when explaining omnipresent BB.
Now time for debunks...
Debunking Debunks
Time to debunk all the claims that people make trying to low-ball BB and the Moon Cell. I already covered the first one earlier, about BB having mire than just a higher dimensional perspective, but now it's time to debunk the rest...
A common CCC debunk is that BB lost to mere Servants, WRONG. All 4 Servants are normal servants UNTIL they receive their Mystic Formal Wear, which puts them on BB's level (in Gilgamesh's case, completely above BB and the Moon Cell entirely). BB was toying with them the entire time before they obtained their Mystic Code, they were completely powerless against her until obtaining it. Receiving their Mystic Codes boosted all 4 Servants to BB's level, making them 4D to 5D multiversal. Infact Gilgamesh DESTROYS the Moon Cell reality marble briefly, which simulates and stores infinite futures via Ea's spinning.
Another weak debunk is that Nasu stated Types are the strongest beings in the Nasuverse despite being solar system level at best, which is outdated and contradicted. That statement was made before Fate/Extra even existed.
And yet another weak debunk is that the Moon Cell is not higher dimensional since it couldn't kill Arcueid, wrong. Arcueid only survived a deletion wall meant for average Servants, Hakuno saying the Moon Cell doesn't have authority over her is just Hakuno speaking. Hakuno knows nothing hardly about the Moon Cell at that time and just made an assumption. Even if it was true, having more authority isn't the same as being more powerful. All Acrueid did was survive a deletion wall only meant for Servants. We also have no idea how powerful Extraverse Arcueid is.
"Summary:
1) Tsukihime would fall apart if the Mooncell existed
2) Extra Arc is not related to Tsukihime's history (so she's not a dimension-hopper from Tsukihime-land, I guess)
3) "Frankly speaking, it's fanservice" ~ Nasu < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker_(Fate/Extra_Rani_route)#References
Now there is one last debunk against the Servants who fight BB. People who acknowledge BB's power go on to say all 4 Servants aren't nearly as strong as her and only beat her via PIS (Plot-Induced-Stupidity), however this is false. You can call it PIS that the Servants got their Mystic Code (however I find it reasonable), but beating BB herself isn't PIS. The Servants' Mystic Codes all boost them to BB's level, simply making them higher dimensional and multiversal just like her. You can argue that all 4 Servants were also capable of pressuring BB hard enough to where they didn't give her the chance to use Cursed Cutting Crater. All Mystic Code Servants' speed is far beyond the concept of space time, as they are able to keep up with BB, who is omnipresent on an at least 4D level and can survive in 5D space (since Cursed Cutting Crater destroyed the 4D Far Side and BB lived, meaning BB is 5D at LEAST). So all Servants would have to be at least 5D to contend with BB). Gilgamesh specifically is 100% NOT PIS, because Gilgamesh's Genesis Mystic Code was the power he had in life, meaning obtaining his Mystic Code is simply restoring him to his prime, while the other Servants never knew of it and it boosted them far beyond their limits. In short, all the Servants basically received Gilgamesh's power sorta-speak. Gilgamesh before re-obtaining his Mystic Code already demonstrated the Moon Cell had no control over him and was above it entirely, even being able to live in the Far Side BEFORE BB reconstructed it to make it livable. Once again, do not compare non CCC characters to CCC characters, as different timelines can mean ANYTHING.
First I'd like to point out that you shouldn't scale CCC characters to other timeline counterparts.The first bunch of this most of you guys probably already know, but please continue.
BB 4D manipulation
BB is able to manipulate the Far Side fo the Moon Cell, which is a higher dimensional space where no living being is capable of living in aside from Gilgamesh. It is a 4D space where only time itself exist, and in a much different way.
"There also exists the Far Side of the Moon (µ£êÒü«ÞúÅÕü┤, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the "exterior of the world", and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned. Due to his power, Gilgamesh is not allowed to appear on the Near Side of the Moon, so he sleeps in the Far Side instead. Nothing else should be able to exist there because it is the territory of nil, and intelligent life forms should not be allowed or be able to exist there. It is not within normal time, allowing for a series of communications over eighteen days from Earth to take less than a microsecond within the timeframe of the Moon Cell." Lower dimensional beings such as Hakuno and the other masters are only able to exist in the Far Side after BB reconstructed it.
"Due to BB surfacing and gaining power as an Advanced A.I., she begins an extensive reconstruction and periods of resetting to work towards her goals. This allows for someone to contact Gilgamesh even when it should be impossible. The end result of her work is Cursed Cutting Crater, a real space in the present, past, and future. Establishing it as a "place", even Masters can exist there. It is not possible to hack the Moon Cell however much time is spent, but she is able to take control of it by placing herself in "unlimited time" through the power of the primordial goddesses she has taken into herself." < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Cell#Far_Side
This shows that BB is already capable of manipulating 4D space, which is a low feat for her. The fact that lower dimensional beings can't even EXIST in higher dimensions (without inteference from BB) implies higher dimensions are completely/infinitely superior to lower dimensions in CCC.
Multiversal BB
Saying BB only has a higher dimensional perspective/mind is wrong, as not only has she existed in 4D space, but Rin also said "think of it as a higher dimensional existence", meaning it isn't just a perspective.
BB fused with the Moon Cell, which stores all possible timelines/futures that can happen, which is possibly (and logically should be) an infinite amount.
"Rani :: The Holy Grail is an observational device that simulates the future of the Earth, and stores those records continuously, at regular intervals. It has been doing so since the beginning of human history. Though it is supposed, an infinity of futures are recorded here in the moon. To obtain the Moon Cell means to be able to search out the future you wish for from among all of those, and put it into effect." < < < https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/entry-141-ellipsis/
We learn from Twice Piecemen in Fate/Extra (the game before Fate/Extra CCC) that the futures that Rani speak of are indeed infinite.
https://s9.postimg.cc/6dn1vbg4f/Untitled2.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/wcmtp68vz/Untitled3.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/weajnwevz/Untitled4.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/6iqt4rxnj/Untitled5.png
https://s9.postimg.cc/htfonsibz/Untitled6.png
So we now know the Moon Cell is so powerful that it can simulate and actually STORE these infinite futures/possibilities, meaning BB has the power to simulate and store infinite futures/possibilitiess after fusing with the Moon Cell. BB also has the destructive power to show for it and can wipe out reality and rewrite it. Also simulating and storing infinite possibilities ALONE is storing infinite different outcomes, which is what timelines are for the most part, infinite different outcomes. The fact these mere possibilities can be stored means they are physical. Also I'd argue simulate and store>destroy. But wait, there's more. Your Vsbattles put a false description of BB's Cursed Cutting Crater, as the wiki says it can wipe out DIMENSIONS.
"Cursed Cutting Crater (C. C. C.)
An attack on the world by BB in control of the Moon Cell.
Also called the spirit particle imaginary pit.
A world purge by means of event rewriting, making maximum use of the EX skill "Potnia Theron" BB had acquired.
The goddess who is the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth is, in other words, the "root" that created all creation.
This Noble Phantasm is an anti-world Noble Phantasm that outputs information like an ultra-precise 3d printer and crushes the present world with the world desired by the user.
The space eroded by BB becomes imaginary space and a curse that consumes reality. CCC as the name suggests is a cursed pit that bores out reality.
In addition to scattering all objects inside on an atomic level and reconstructing them, it is capable of writing over and rewriting information of fields such as luck and coincidence.
While theoretical, it is also thought possible to distort the time axis by interfering with gravity fields and rewrite the law of cause and effect.
When used in combat, BB's familiars, the shapeshifters engulf the target, and after turning into a sphere, is wiped out of existence along with the target and the dimension with it." < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/BB#References > > >
Calling CCC planet level because it's called "Anti World" is vastly out of context, especially when it mentions it can erase dimensions "BB's familiars, the shapeshifters engulf the target, and after turning into a sphere, is wiped out of existence along with the target and the dimension with it." Which brings me on to my next point...
5D BB
Previously, it stated BB's Cursed Cutting Crater Noble Phantasm can wipe out her enemy and the dimension they are in. BB used Cursed Cutting Crater in the Far Side of Angelica Cage, which is once again 4D space. BB using Cursed Cutting Crater in 4D space means she wiped out the fourth dimension of time entirely, so how did she survive? If 4D space is wiped out, then all that's left is 5D space, and as we know from previous statements, lower dimensional beings can't even EXIST in higher dimensional spaces and are erased immidiately. After using Cursed Cutting Crater, BB is still alive and well, meaning BB is at least a 5D entity. < < <
It makes sense, since BB fused with the Moon Cell, that is so powerful that it can store infinite futures along with other spaces such as the Near Side and Far Side, this shows the Moon Cell's power is beyond basic 4D infinity Also even though BB reconstructed the Far Side so masters can live in it, Rin still described it as 4D space when explaining omnipresent BB.
Now time for debunks...
Debunking Debunks
Time to debunk all the claims that people make trying to low-ball BB and the Moon Cell. I already covered the first one earlier, about BB having mire than just a higher dimensional perspective, but now it's time to debunk the rest...
A common CCC debunk is that BB lost to mere Servants, WRONG. All 4 Servants are normal servants UNTIL they receive their Mystic Formal Wear, which puts them on BB's level (in Gilgamesh's case, completely above BB and the Moon Cell entirely). BB was toying with them the entire time before they obtained their Mystic Code, they were completely powerless against her until obtaining it. Receiving their Mystic Codes boosted all 4 Servants to BB's level, making them 4D to 5D multiversal. Infact Gilgamesh DESTROYS the Moon Cell reality marble briefly, which simulates and stores infinite futures via Ea's spinning.
Another weak debunk is that Nasu stated Types are the strongest beings in the Nasuverse despite being solar system level at best, which is outdated and contradicted. That statement was made before Fate/Extra even existed.
And yet another weak debunk is that the Moon Cell is not higher dimensional since it couldn't kill Arcueid, wrong. Arcueid only survived a deletion wall meant for average Servants, Hakuno saying the Moon Cell doesn't have authority over her is just Hakuno speaking. Hakuno knows nothing hardly about the Moon Cell at that time and just made an assumption. Even if it was true, having more authority isn't the same as being more powerful. All Acrueid did was survive a deletion wall only meant for Servants. We also have no idea how powerful Extraverse Arcueid is.
"Summary:
1) Tsukihime would fall apart if the Mooncell existed
2) Extra Arc is not related to Tsukihime's history (so she's not a dimension-hopper from Tsukihime-land, I guess)
3) "Frankly speaking, it's fanservice" ~ Nasu < < < http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker_(Fate/Extra_Rani_route)#References
Now there is one last debunk against the Servants who fight BB. People who acknowledge BB's power go on to say all 4 Servants aren't nearly as strong as her and only beat her via PIS (Plot-Induced-Stupidity), however this is false. You can call it PIS that the Servants got their Mystic Code (however I find it reasonable), but beating BB herself isn't PIS. The Servants' Mystic Codes all boost them to BB's level, simply making them higher dimensional and multiversal just like her. You can argue that all 4 Servants were also capable of pressuring BB hard enough to where they didn't give her the chance to use Cursed Cutting Crater. All Mystic Code Servants' speed is far beyond the concept of space time, as they are able to keep up with BB, who is omnipresent on an at least 4D level and can survive in 5D space (since Cursed Cutting Crater destroyed the 4D Far Side and BB lived, meaning BB is 5D at LEAST). So all Servants would have to be at least 5D to contend with BB). Gilgamesh specifically is 100% NOT PIS, because Gilgamesh's Genesis Mystic Code was the power he had in life, meaning obtaining his Mystic Code is simply restoring him to his prime, while the other Servants never knew of it and it boosted them far beyond their limits. In short, all the Servants basically received Gilgamesh's power sorta-speak. Gilgamesh before re-obtaining his Mystic Code already demonstrated the Moon Cell had no control over him and was above it entirely, even being able to live in the Far Side BEFORE BB reconstructed it to make it livable. Once again, do not compare non CCC characters to CCC characters, as different timelines can mean ANYTHING.
