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Some Undertale God Tier Revisions

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Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

VS Battles
Retired VSB Bureaucrat
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I am downgrading Omega Flowey and everyone else to Tomato level based on scaling from Frisk.

Been wanting to do this for a while, especially after playing through the game, again. To keep a long story short, four of Undertale's Tier 2 pages need some changes.

Chara

So Chara is currently "Likely 2-B" due to their feat of destroying the game, which we know both can and does contain multiples timelines. The reason this is considered to be more likely than not 2-B is the fact that the Anomaly's actions were, as noted by Sans, causing timelines to jump around, being created and be destroyed. Flowey did what the Anomaly did, but for a far, far longer period with much more abuse of space-time, so there should be enough timelines in total (which Chara destroys when breaking the game) to just be 2-B, right?

Well, here's the thing. Sans makes it clear that from these actions, multiple timelines have simply ended; as in, they've straight up stopped existing thanks to your actions. If this is the case, despite the fact that Flowey's shenanigans logically should have caused a vastly greater number of timelines to be created, they also likely destroyed quite a large amount of them, as well. There's simply no way to know just how many there were at any given time other than "a good amount". Because of this, I believe Chara should receive a slight rescaling of "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" to better account for the vague nature of the overall cosmology. The Anomaly should be rescaled to this, as well.

Omega Flowey

Stronger than Chara to an unknown degree, thus I think he should be affected in a similar fashion. He already showed the ability to generate and affect six separate files after destroying your main SAVE, which even gives a solid base for his low-end. "At least 2-C, likely 2-B".

Asriel Dreemurr

The main one I've been wanting to deal with. I've been meaning to downgrade Asriel for a good, long while. His current 2-A rating comes from the fact that compared to everyone else, including the other Tier 2s, his in-game stats are "∞". I still firmly believe this isn't just "lol random stats", because the in-game stats in Undertale aren't the real background stats in the game and only exist for lore purposes, but I do have issue with this making him flat out 2-A. The way I see it, it's more likely that he's just so far beyond everyone else that his power appears infinite in comparison. Omega Flowey treated that form as incomplete, while referring to his revived Asriel for as "God", so it's clearly an absolutely massive power difference between the two. We just don't know if it's actually infinite. Because of this, I believe something along the lines of "At least 2-B" would be safest for full power Asriel, as said tier could also be justified with a quick comparison to his incomplete form.

Frisk

Because Frisk is only capable of doing chip damage to Omega Flowey (and nothing at all to Asriel), their DETERMINATION boosted AP should really cap somewhere along the lines of "Likely 2-C" with the new scaling. Their durability should also be downgraded to match Asriel's new AP.

Annoying Dog

Shockingly unaffected by all of this.


tl;dr

Chara: Likely 2-B ----> At least 2-C, likely 2-B

Omega Flowey: 2-B ----> At least 2-C, likely 2-B

Asriel: 2-A | At least 2-A ----> 2-B | At least 2-B

Frisk: Likely 2-B with 2-A durability ----> Likely 2-C with (at least) 2-B durability

The Anomaly: Unknow. Possibly 2-B ----> Unknown. Likely 2-C, possibly 2-B
 
So Asriel's first key stays 2-A? Also does Frisk's AP scale to his dura?
 
Tanked attacks from peak Asriel

And no because they couldn't harm Asriel

Edit: Why u keep editing the comment
 
So.... it's really only Asriel and Frisk that are getting major changes.

Chara and OF are just now more flexible for VS matches.

Though I like muh 2-A Asriel so I kinda wanted a possibly 2-A key
 
I got confused reading your arrow chart sorry.

Now I understand what you're doing. It seems fine to me.
 
As a side note, would this affect the 'countless' 2-B ratings everyone has or will it stay 'countless', with just a 2-C low end.
 
Yeah, this sounds about right. I'll back this.

Everybody and their mother seems to want to downgrade UT for some reason...
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
As a side note, would this affect the 'countless' 2-B ratings everyone has or will it stay 'countless', with just a 2-C low end.
It's more countless in terms of "a lot but we don't know", not so much "too many to ever count".
 
Starter Pack said:
Yeah, this sounds about right. I'll back this.

Everybody and their mother seems to want to downgrade UT for some reason...
Because it's clearly a 10-C verse given that only the god tier can stop a little kid ovo
 
Y╠Âa╠Ây╠Â,╠ ╠Âw╠Âe╠ ╠Âc╠Âa╠Ân╠ ╠Âf╠Âi╠Ân╠Âa╠Âl╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Âd╠Âo╠ ╠ÂO╠Âm╠Âe╠Âg╠Âa╠ ╠ÂF╠Âl╠Âo╠Âw╠Âe╠Ây╠ ╠Âv╠Âs╠Â╠ G╠Âi╠Ây╠Âg╠Âa╠Âs╠Â!
 
DaBigP said:
Y╠Âa╠Ây╠Â,╠ ╠Âw╠Âe╠ ╠Âc╠Âa╠Ân╠ ╠Âf╠Âi╠Ân╠Âa╠Âl╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Âd╠Âo╠ ╠ÂO╠Âm╠Âe╠Âg╠Âa╠ ╠ÂF╠Âl╠Âo╠Âw╠Âe╠Ây╠ ╠Âv╠Âs╠Â╠ G╠Âi╠Ây╠Âg╠Âa╠Âs╠Â!
Giygas is Low 2-C fool

Also, I just noticed on how high a level of 2-B this puts Asriel.
 
I╠ ╠Âk╠Ân╠Âo╠Âw╠Â,╠ ╠Âb╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠ÂI╠ ╠Âs╠Âe╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Âb╠Âa╠Ât╠Ât╠Âl╠Âe╠Âs╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âa╠Ât╠ ╠Âa╠Âr╠Âe╠ ╠Âa╠ ╠Ât╠Âi╠Âe╠Âr╠ ╠Âa╠Âb╠Âo╠Âv╠Âe╠ ╠Âb╠Âe╠Âc╠Âa╠Âu╠Âs╠Âe╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âe╠Ây╠ ╠Âb╠Âo╠Ât╠Âh╠ ╠Âa╠Âr╠Âe╠ ╠Âs╠Âi╠Âm╠Âi╠Âl╠Âa╠Âr╠Â,╠ ╠Âw╠Âh╠Âi╠Âc╠Âh╠ ╠Âc╠Âo╠Âu╠Âl╠Âd╠ ╠Âa╠Âp╠Âp╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âi╠Âs╠Â.╠Â.╠Â.╠Â╠Âr╠Âi╠Âg╠Âh╠Ât╠Â?
 
I sense a great disturbance in the force....

I sense.....Threads....Digimon threads....Far into the distance......

I agree by the way.
 
Gargoyle One said:
I sense a great disturbance in the force....

I sense.....Threads....Digimon threads....Far into the distance......

I agree by the way.
They are becoming 2-A tho. The 2-C Digimon
 
Yobobojojo said:
Isn't that Ariel stuff a bit of an assumption tho?
Otherwise looks great.
An assumption that he's astronomically stronger? No. Omega Flowey refers to reaching that form as "becoming GOD". The assumption is that he's really infinitely stronger as opposed to just being so much stronger than they perceive him as having infinite power.
 
Wasn't Asriel like the only character that had 2-A via being infinitely stronger than other tier 2s?
 
Problem: Asriel's "hidden" stats are what the game gives him. Not what the narrator gives. Frisk was completely unable to harm him at max DT. Which gives a heavy implication that the stats are not bluffing. Assuming that he only "seemed" infinite in light of this is exactly that imao. When have the stats ever lied? We start doubting them only now, because we don't like what they say? Remember what you said in your 1-A Warhammer thread?

Agree with virtually everything else.
 
Here's what I have to mention about this:

1 . The tier change for Chara is perfectly fine, you can go right ahead with that.

2. I'm fine with Photoshop Flowey's tier change.

3. For Asriel Dreemurr's tier change in my opinion, I would actually prefer removing the "At least" rating for his Angel of Death/Full Power form and leaving it as only "Likely 2-A" for now while for his regular Absolute GoHD form should be changed to "At least 2-B" since he did mentioned that he was casually holding back his power against Frisk.

4. Frisk's AP Tiering change is fine & Frisk's durability with full Determination should be corrected to "At least 2-C, likely 2-A at peak" tbh.

5. The Anomaly should not have "Unknown" in his tier since they were stated by Sans that they have the power to consume/destroy timelines + the Anomaly auto-scales to Chara since they created this manifestation from their own power + since they possess huge amounts of Determination and has control over their own Save File (which allows them to manipulate the game's timelines), all of that is enough justification for them to have the "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" rating.
 
Magi Hussie said:
Here's what I have to mention about this:

1 . The tier change for Chara is perfectly fine, you can go right ahead with that.

2. I'm fine with Photoshop Flowey's tier change.

3. For Asriel Dreemurr's tier change in my opinion, I would actually prefer removing the "At least" rating for his Angel of Death/Full Power form and leaving it as only "Likely 2-A" for now while for his regular Absolute GoHD form should be changed to "At least 2-B" since he did mentioned that he was casually holding back his power against Frisk.

4. Frisk's AP Tiering change is fine & Frisk's durability with full Determination should be corrected to "At least 2-C, likely 2-A at peak" tbh.

5. The Anomaly should not have "Unknown" in his tier since they were stated by Sans that they have the power to consume/destroy timelines + the Anomaly auto-scales to Chara since they created this manifestation from their own power + since they possess huge amounts of Determination and has control over their own Save File (which allows them to manipulate the game's timelines), all of that is enough justification for them to have the "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" rating.
Agreed. Asriel should still be reasonably into 2-A, but his "at least" needs removal. That is for characters infinitely greater than baseline (according to azzy). I also disagree with his opinion. Saying that you think X doesn't actually mean x, and instead means y, isn't exactly solid evidence. I want more evidence than that before believing the stats are lying, or wrong
 
Always thought the reasoning for Asriel's 2-A rating was very weak, tbh. This is much better. Chara can't measure infinity, so appearing infinite makes more sense.
 
The real cal howard said:
Always thought the reasoning for Asriel's 2-A rating was very weak, tbh. This is much better. Chara can't measure infinity, so appearing infinite makes more sense.
Aren't these referring to the hidden stats though not Check? I don't think that can apply if that is a stat listed by the game and not Chara.
 
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