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StarCraft: Civilization Pages and Small Amon Abilities Addition

Assaltwaffle

VS Battles
Retired
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Well, now that we have some new and improved Civilization stats, it is time to give The Zerg and The Protoss another look (and the Terrans too, even though they don't have a page because they're the worst race and you can't argue otherwise).

So, we need to figure out what the three races are in terms of the new system.

Also, I'm going to discuss another ability Amon should have, so bear with me.

So, the three races need some new additions to the civilization profiles. The new stuff is as follows:

  • Civilization Tier: All civilizations now need a tier specific to them. Using this it is fairly easily to determine that all three StarCraft races belong in the Galactic Civilizatio tier.
  • Kardashev Scale Rating: This one is the hardest. While the Protoss are certainly in Type II for being able to harness the power of synthetic stars across thousands of planets and output enough energy to destroy most of a planet, the other two are a bit harder. The Terrans are almost certainly Type 1 for being able to harness across energy from multiple planets. The Zerg though... due to their nature of focusing on biomass and biological evolution, they really don't have any energy consumption that we know of. As odd as it is, it seems like the Zerg are actually in Type 0 for lacking significant energy production.
  • Population: The Protoss are actually staggeringly low in population compared to the other races, as they have dwindled in numbers. I'm not if an exact number is ever given, but they are likely still in the millions. The Terran are easily in the billions, and life-wiping a planet with Apocalypse Class Nuclear Warheads didn't significantly affect their population. The Zerg though. Absolutely casually in the billions, but how many? Do they get into the trillions? They are oftentimes described as infinite and numberless, and while those are obvious hyperbole, there are still a lot of them. With even all the broken packs and swarms existing around the galaxy that overrun entire planets, the Zerg should probably hit the low trillions, imo.
  • Territory: All of these guys easily have thousands of star systems. Large parts of the galaxy are described as "Zerg space" by Raynor's ship when Kerrigan goes to become the QoB again, so that should mean that thousands, if not millions, of star systems are under their control. The Protoss and Terran shouldn't be far behind.
  • Power Source: All three races use minerals and vespane gas, but the Terrans also use conventional power sources, while the Protoss harness Solarite and the Zerg farm biomass for power.
  • Industrial Capacity: Oh yes. All three races are able to quickly design and build huge kilometer long vessels. The Protoss built several 70 kilometer long ships over the course of less than 1,000 years, with smaller vessels being commonplace to create. The Terran create many huge Battlecruisers in less than a year's time, as they are needed to fight the wars they get into. The Zerg can spawn massive siege beats at a near-moment's notice. Although they are not shown making a Leviathan, they have to be capable of quickly producing one, as Kerrigan received a Leviathan before the Overmind died.
  • Military Prowess: The Protoss have thousands of war machines and vessels, with the Tal'Darim Death Fleet being able to single-handedly wipe out all life in the sector. Hundreds of planets life-wiped, with at least 20 carriers per world is a dead minimum of 200 carries for the Death Fleet. The Golden Armada should be even more numerous than this. They also have several motherships, an Arkship, the Spear of Adun, and a life-wiping Battle Station, Cybros.
The Terrans have billions of soldiers and at least several dozen Battlecruisers, although their true numbers are likely more comparable to the Protoss, if not more, due to their increased population.

The Zerg have high billions to trillions of infantry and war beasts, with at least several dozen Leviathans, and even more Brood Lord and similarly large living weapons.

Everything else we already have. So, does this look good?

Now, to Amon. When the Protoss confronted Amon's host body on Auir, Karax mentioned that none of their weaponry, even their most powerful, would effect Amon whatsoever. If this is true, certainly the Spear of Adun's Time Stop or the Motherships' Time Slows would not effect him as well, yes? If they could, they could have bought much more time or simply frozen Amon in place.

Edit: While I'm here, it should be mentioned that Amon can actually mind hax AI and sufficiently advanced machinery, as he took over the Khala and the robotic members of the Protoss, like the Sentries and Warp Prisms, as well. This backs up the statements made by Karax about the Keystone, stating it sees matter and consciousness as one.

TLDR: We makin' Civ profiles and Amon needs resistance to Time Stop and Slow. Amon's Mind Hax covers non-organics as well.
 
I know Xel-Naga would be Universal Civilization and probably Type 5 of the Kardashev scale once they get a profile, but off topic.

Zergs do use Vespene gas and Minerals, but they appear to treat that as their food and drinks lol. Civilization tier is perfect on what you suggested, Kardashev one, I agree. Protoss being Type II and Terran being Type 1 seems reasonable. But Zerg are like Prehistoric level, but with highly advanced evolution. So Type 0 does seem the most accurate I suppose.

Population, yeah, Protoss doesn't have very much population, but make up for that with long life spans advanced technology, and far greater intellect then humans. I suppose millions is a reasonable low ball. Terrans are noticeably more populated than Real World humans; it was noted that the Earth could potentially support the lives of roughly 100 billion people if humanity if they perfected civilization and the environment's balance. And that's not counting the many other planets humanity expanded their civilization to. And yeah, Zerg's have a massive reproductive system; thought to be comparable to various insect and arachnid species. And there exist like quadrillions of spiders on Earth alone. And that's just spiders, not counting other arachnid or insect species. So yeah, Zergs are massive, not infinite, but impossible to truly determine.... Summary, at least millions of Protoss; hundreds of billions, possibly trillions of Terrans, and at least Quadrillions of Zerg IMO.

Don't got much input on the rest, but role with your thoughts ATM.
 
@Darkdragon

Quadrillions of Zerg actually seems reasonable, looking at the numbers on animals. Apparently there are 20 quintillion animals on Earth, although most are very small. Still, quadrillion is still a very conservative number considering they dominate and life-wipe thousands of planets.

Oh lord. That means Amon is able to mind control quadrillions...
 
Speaking of Amon, does that mean you have no opinion on his resistance to Time Stop and better mind hax?
 
Oh yeah, that's definitely a huge upgrade for his mind hax. And resistance to time stop also seems reasonable to me.
 
Also since we're already on an Amon addition train, he needs Space-Time manipulation as well. It is stated that Amon's Void Energy has the ability to bend the material universe and warp space and time.
 
Well, I don't see the time and space thing on that wiki, but I do vaguely remember a quote mentioning that; it sounds good.
 
I can run through the Mission it came from again if we need a quoted statement.

Edit: Also this should be limited to True From and above Amon, since not full-power Hybrid Amon needed Void shards to properly manifest the Void.
 
Things look good so far, but I don't think all the races are Galactic in scope. All the races are spread throughout the entire Koprulu Sector, but thats (presumably) only a section of their galaxy. There are no Zerg in the area of Earth, for instance (though IIRC the Zerg came from an entirely different section of the galaxy, but I'm unsure if they left any Zerg behind or brought the entire Swarm with them). I'm thinking they should all be Interstellar at best. If you have scans showing otherwise I can easily change my mind though, as I'm only going by memory.

I have no comment on the bit about Amon, but it makes sense from a glance.
 
The SC races constantly refer the "the galaxy" though. I know no Zerg are near Earth, but that could just be due to Earth being in Terran territory.
 
Earth isn't even part of the Koprulu Sector, for the record (and IIRC Zerus isn't either), and the entire Terran Presence in the Koprulu Sector was created by colonists who lost contact with Earth, and in one of the early missions General Edmund Duke says something along the lines of "Earthers? What the hell are you doing all the way out here?" when the UED started stealing their Battlecruisers, suggesting that Earth controlled territory is an incredible distance from the Koprulu Sector and Dominion Space. IIRC none of the other races had even heard of Earth until they showed up. Also, in most science fiction I've watched and played, Sectors refer to portions of the galaxy. The Protoss and Terran presences are pretty much entirely restricted to the Koprulu Sector.

Also, do you have specific statements for when they refer to "the galaxy"? If its something like "threat to the galaxy," (which isn't an uncommon thing to say in most Sci-Fi last I checked) in reference to the Zerg they say that because they think they're literally the last hope to stop the Zerg from continuing to spread. Considering other material (mostly books) suggests that most other races that have been encountered is inferior to the main 3, they aren't exactly wrong in assuming that.

At best, I'd consider the Zerg the only race that is galactic in scale, since the Zerg Force is considerably larger than either of the other two races combined, but even then they don't seem to stay on planets forever. For example, Zerus is completely Zerg free outside the primals, but the planet should be covered in hives if the Zerg presence had remained. The Overmind did assimilate most of the planet before leaving, but the lack of Zerg presence indicates he took the vast majority of them with him. If others thing Galactic is fine I'll be fine with it, I just don't see it much bigger than interstellar in scope.
 
Alright, then High-end interstellar presence makes sense. The Koprulu sector is a good point.
 
Bumping this. Is everyone OK with the proposed changes to Amon in addition to the profiles based on what we discussed here?
 
My only remaining gripe is whether or not Amon's domination of a large portion of the Zerg Swarm really counts as mind controlling a large number of them and if he's not just acting as a Hive Mind for them, which would mean that that part of the mind control only applies to the Zerg because he'd be overpowering whatever Hive Mind is being used to control them, and the Hive Mind can't be used to control non-Zerg without assimilating them first. I have nothing definitive to say about it that isn't entirely speculative, though, and since my other gripe has been addressed with I agree with the changes.
 
@DerpCity

Amon bound the Zerg to his will and made the Hive Mind in the first place. While I agree Kerrigan, the Overmind, or the Brood Mothers don't scale, Amon probably still should.
 
@Azzy

If only Amon didn't die at the end of SC2. T_T

Unless the writers lose all their marbles give him Mid-Godly and then add higher dimensions...

Alright second though, I'm coming for your verse Azzy.
 
I just realize: the Zerg consume the biomass of entire species to sustain themselves; would that be equal to energy consumption to get them out of Type 0? Seems so strange that a race capable of life-wiping entire sectors of the galaxy is on par with current humans in any way.
 
Because their might comes from their advanced DNA and mass numbers, not their technology. But anyway, Zerg are technically far superior combat wise obviously.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Because their might comes from their advanced DNA and mass numbers, not their technology. But anyway, Zerg are technically far superior combat wise obviously.
But wouldn't consuming biomass still equal energy consumption?
 
Yeah, but Zergs are Quadrillions and possibly Quintillions as referenced by AssaltWaffle.
 
The Everlasting said:
Page says quadrillions so... lol.
It's around that number. It's hard to estimate how many beings would be needed to infest dozens of planets and overrun the entire landmass simultaneously.

But Amon's brood had already completely overrun Shakuras and it wasn't even considered enough to put a dent in his forces. There are a LOT of Zerg.
 
Well, yes, but that's still not really technology but biology. They're just predators that absorb biomass by eating them basically. They're also similar to Lavos from Chrono Trigger in a way, minus the insane Space-Time hax.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, yes, but that's still not really technology but biology. They're just predators that absorb biomass by eating them basically. They're also similar to Lavos from Chrono Trigger in a way, minus the insane Space-Time hax.
But Tyranids are Type 1 for consuming biomass as well.
 
I wonder how much space the Zergs would take up if you lumped them all into one space.

Seriously, that would be terrifying.
 
The Everlasting said:
I wonder how much space the Zergs would take up if you lumped them all into one space.

Seriously, that would be terrifying.
Hundreds of kilometers with the Leviathans alone, considering a single Leviathan is over 10 kilometers.

Edit: Yeah but the Zerg have overrun entire planets exclusively for the purpose of setting a trap, so there are a lot of them.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I mean, Kratos still atomizes.
Doesn't kill Amon though. He doesn't need his body to survive. He spent most of Legacy of the Void as disembodied consciousness.
 
I agree with the changes and I am hyped as heck for it! Thought I believe it was mentioned in the StarCraft Manga (is that canon?) that the Terrans have Hundreds of Battlecruisers.
 
Heilergott said:
I agree with the changes and I am hyped as heck for it! Thought I believe it was mentioned in the StarCraft Manga (is that canon?) that the Terrans have Hundreds of Battlecruisers.
It probably should be. Also it makes more sense that there are hundreds of battlecruisers. Seems odd for a multi-billion race to only have like 10 capital ships.
 
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