My fault for this taking so long. Finally have the chance to fully give a response here. And believe me when I say
its lengthy. Once again, there are no hard feelings here via this matchup. I know for sure this'll be a big debate, but letting everyone know ahead of time that none of this will change my perspective of those here. Now lets begin.
AP Compariso
First will come this. I know what you said before @Dragon, but I still think for arguments sake it'll be important to analyze. Anywho, it's clear both Nemesis and Apocalymon are well into the Low 2-C tier. But as to who has the advantage in AP? Regarding Apocalymon first, he's Low 2-C through normally warping the DW's space-time fabric through existence alone, the darkness he wields being likely endless, turn the DW to nothing and scaling above Piedmons feat. Not counting his Gran Death B.B. since its a last resort move. While definitely much above baseline, it doesn't seem to be well well well into Low 2-C despite part of it being casual (that said, lacking info on Digimon prevents me from fully assessing this so excuse me). Nemesis on the other hand isn't the run of the mill average Low 2-C some would think.
Low 2-C Scaling:
First, we have Doji's Dark Wolf. It is the absolute weakest Low 2-C in beyblade and it's spirit beast form contains an entire universe within itself. It also has another feat of beginning to swallow up the main universe into its own in an unknown timeframe, which should be above baseline. Next bey, who surpasses Dark Wolf by an
incredibly huge degree, is Twisted Tempo, who's special move easily creates a universe and rules it. Right above that comes Gingka's Galaxy Pegasus who surpassed the full power of Tempo in the end. After that comes a bunch of beys that either equal or compare to (but still weaker) Galaxy Pegasus, being Low 2-C nonetheless. Equal wise, we just have Ryuga's Meteo L-Drago. Comparable wise, there's Kyoya's Leone, Masamune's Striker, Damian's Hades Kerbecs, Jack's Evil Befall, Zeo's Byxis, Tsubasa's Eagle, Yu's Libra, Nile's Horuseus, Kenta's Sagitario, Wang-Hu Zhong's beys (4), and Excaliburs beys (4). So far, thats a total of
21 Low 2-C's. Finally, we get to the Legendary Bladers. First comes Gingka's Cosmic Pegasus for the sake of scaling. As a bey with legendary power, it's already vastly superior to its previous form by a lot. And for the rest, all other Legendary Bladers are in the exact same tier for having the same power as Pegasus, pre-EoS of course. Other than Rago, there's 10 more Legendary Bladers to add, making the total
31 (Kyoya, Ryuga and Kenta are counted again because they get different beys than before). Along with them, there also comes more bladers who are nearly as powerful as the Legendary Bladers themselves. We have Yohannes's Lynx, Yuki's Anubius (Pre-awakened since it lasted against L-Drago Destructor), Bao's Hades Crown, Team Garcias (4), Toby's Lyra, Zeo's Fox, Masamune's
Blitz Striker (Different from Ray so it counts), Jigsaw's Eonis, Ryuto's Dragonis, Chris's Orion (Also Pre-awakened since it was already stronger than Blitz Striker), 3 Nemesis Blader beys, and Pluto's Darkhelm. In the end, this makes a total of
48 Low 2-C beys.
Making it short. Nemesis is far superior to the combined strength of every Low 2-C bey mentioned and then some via having their powers and simple powerscaling. This is demonstrated by it, with its basic capabilities alone,
toying around with the Legendary Blader beys combined, who are >>>> the rest. In fact, Nemesis is so strong it forced Gingka's Cosmic Pegasus to take the powers of all beys in the world, and use absolutely all of its full power,
to just barely defeat Nemesis in the end. You can practically just slightly downscale Nemesis from where Full powered Cosmic Pegasus is in Low 2-C. And with multiple means of amping its power, it makes Nemesis even stronger.
With all being said, and analyzing both side's Low 2-C ranges, until someone clarifies more on Apocalymons place in the tier for me, i'll have to side with Nemesis being stronger by a pretty big degree. Of course, AP by itself definitely isn't deciding this matchup in the slightest.
Speed is equal so no need to bring that up and durability's pretty much the same here too. Will now get into the biggest part of all here. Abilities.
Abilities
This one's going to be a doozy. But we'll be taking this one step at a time. First, we'll get into what
won't work on each other. For Nemesis, Dragon already gave a headstart. Nemesis lacks E.E. so that's moot but Apocalymon being a Dark Area resident prevents Nemesis from using mind or soul hax on him. For Apocalymon...pretty much his basic stuff as far as I see.
Now its time for the big guns, to see what both can do against each other. But before that, something about Nemesis needs to be cleared up. It's power absorbtion.
Nemesis's power absorbtion, again, is not the common kind of power absorbtion you'd see. Being blunt, its pretty ridiculously high-level (there's a reason why im starting off with this). When Nemesis absorbs the power of even a single individual, it doesn't just gain their strength and capabilties. It also gains the capabilities of every being that individual has ever fought against,
from beginning to last. In other words, for example, by absorbing Apocalymon's power and abilities, Nemesis would then also gain the capabilities of every Digimon Apocalymon has ever fought against fot itself. And before anyone starts shooting the NLF gun, it's first off only limited to Nemesis's tier. So anyone beyond Low 2-C is not getting touched by this at all. Secondly, this was how Nemesis
explicity gained the powers of the Legendary Blader beys, which goes on to all beys, proven. For instance, take Sagitario, Striker, Eagle and Libra. When battling Nemesis, it was confirmed the power of these 4 beys were already taken by Nemesis as well. Why? Because of taking the Legendary Blader beys capabilities, despite the fact Rago never once met the 4 beys bladers and Nemesis never battling those beys beforehand. And there you have it.
As such, Apocalymon is being given the same treatment here. It is more than likely that stuff natural to Apocalymon, such as Dark Area Inhabitance, wouldnt be given to Nemesis to give him the same resistances, but everything else thats straightfoward should be applied to Nemesis. With this out of the way, it's time for counters to Apocalymon's stuff brought already.
Counters:
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Darkness Zone: Not really a counter, but clarfying Dragon himself admitted to Nemesis being able to survive it due to regen. So incase Nemesis gets caught up in it, its not finishing him off. And i'll also assume this to say Nemesis will be able to keep fighting inside it if ever caught there in the first place.
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Shi no Senkoku: Nothing much to say here. Instant death kind of won't work on...well....a metal spinning top. It's true Beyblades are sentient as they can understand the commands of their bladers, but they definitely aren't organic living beings, so life-death hax wouldn't be able to effect them at all.
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Masks Sqaure: Assuming Nemesis isn't able to use this move back against Apocalymon, stay out of the moves range, change the space for itself, or outright destroy it, the only useful thing this would provide Apocalymon is reading Rago's communcations with Nemesis. Adresssing the former, Piedmons move is done by making a cube that quickly spreads around the space of opponents to trap them inside it. Speed is equal, but with precog on its side, Nemesis and Rago would see this coming a mile away and just pull of something to get it out of the moves range depending on how far it goes. In addition, Nemesis here would have the abilities of, at least, the Legendary Blader beys, so reality warping wouldn't be anything new here. For this, Nemesis having it would be upscaled by at least Pegasus, Leone, and Dynamis's Jade Jupiter. The latter of which have done this:
*
Storm Pegasus, with an incomplete move, warping the fabric of a pocket dimension into an entire universe (twice).
*
Rock Leone casually warping Hades Kerbec's hell dimension into a dimension for itself...
with a single roar. And going on to beat said Kerbecs who could do the same thing itself.
*Jade Jupiter making a universe (twice) and making it vanish instantly.
2 out of 3 beys no where near even remotely close to Legendary Blader tier, all 3 being drastically fodder to Nemesis. As such, even upscaled from Piedmon, I don't yet see anything on Apocalymon's reality warping being a threat to Nemesis when even drastically weaker beys can do the same thing. Moving on, reading opponents minds also wouldnt work (unless used on Rago) since beys lack actual minds. Finally, Body control? Well, beys do not have actual bodies/body parts so this should do little good unless in the form of telekinesis(?) which also won't do much given Beyblade telekinetic feats (i'll get to this later). Reading Rago's mind will definitely work, but the issue here is when Nemesis pulls out its replicated dark spirits of the beys it took power from. These dark bey spirits can act independently on their own, meaning Rago doesnt need to specifically command Nemesis to use them (or other kinds of moves), and there are at least 12 of them that can attack at once. Unless there's evidence to Piedmon being able to read so many minds/convos at once, this should decrease the chances of controllong and/or intercepting them all simutanoeusly.
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Dark Area: Im assuming this is done with regular BFR. If so, this also won't work on Nemesis who, by having powers from other beys, can pretty much no sell BFR with 0 issues. Best example would be Leone resisting Hades Kerbec's BFR.
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Texture Blow: Assuming Nemesis couldn't use this back against Apocalymon by replicating it, how does this move work exactly?
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Clown Trick: Depends on a lot of factors, other than Nemesis possibly using it for itself. In the way you intended to use this move, the tablecloth must touch Nemesis first. Assuming getting out of range cannot happen, Nemesis has multiple means of defending against this. First, it can easily use one of its dark spirit puppets as a sacrifice to keep itself safe. Second, it can put up multiple barriers to block it, passively and actively (will detail this later) and nothing dictaes it can bypass them. And third, Nemesis can just outright destroy it with an attack, namely its omni-directional special move.
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Death Charm: Mostly the same as for Shi no Senkoku. Nemesis is not a living being for being a bey so it lacks life force, and as for power, Nemesis kind of greatly resists power drain. Will detail it more later but lets just say L-Drago didnt have the best time trying to drain it of its power.
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Time flow manipulating: Forgive me, but In all honesty, I don't see how this will make a difference. IIRC, Apocalymon has never used this in mid-combat (can be wrong) and while its feat is extremely casual, warping the DW only made time go faster and thats it. Im missing how it would help in a battle. Furthermore, using time hax like this on Nemesis sort of wouldn't be as easy as one would think. Twisted Tempo is a bey that rules over space and time as well and it doesn't even hold a candle to Nemesis in any way shape or form. Fact is, not only would Nemesis have its power, but Tempo was specifically made
to just assist in reviving Nemesis. That should speak for something here.
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Death Evolution: Pretty much the same like for Clown Trick, only worse. There are factors that depend on stuff here, but unlike with Clown Trick, Death Evolution
explicity requires Apocalymon to
physically capture Nemesis to regress him back to Proto. Not only does Nemesis have a huge size advantage to make physical capture more difficult, but its multiple means of defending itself can prevent Apocalymon from making the required contact needed to turn Diablo back to Proto, which can also be useless when Proto can just re-absorb the power and abilities it took to get back to sqaure one. Finally, does this move perform in a way of decreasing the opponents power to turn them back to previous statges? If so, it was already addressed it wouldnt work against Nemesis and will be explained more later.
Now its time to list what Nemesis itself could do here against Apocalymon. As already stated, Nemesis here has the power of all beys combined at its disposal. But for fairness (and not using all my cards at once ovo), I'll only go off of Eagle, Striker, Libra, and the Legendary Blader beys. Here is all the notable stuff Nemesis would get from said beys, other than obv stuff:
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Yuki's Anubius: Forcefield's where even souls cannot pass through them, Weapon Mastery
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Aguma's Kronos: Explosion Manipulation via touch
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Dynamis's Jupiter: Sealing (Not Zeus's Barrier, but sealing of pure emotions), Telekinesis that can manipulate multiple planets, Reality Warping, Dimensional creation, Memory Projection, BFR
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King's Variares: More forcefield creation (via Variares's shield, which can even block omni-directional attacks), Weapon Mastery, Energy Absorption and Telekinesis that summons and draws power from Mars
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Tithi's Quetzalcoatl: Invulnerability, Power Null, Explosion Manipulation
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Chris's Orion: More Invulnerability, Pocket Dimension Creation, Limitless stamina and Telekinesis that manipulates entire stars
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Kyoya's Leone: Reality Warping via roaring, Air Manipulation and Absorption (also act as shields), and Resistances to Power and Energy Absorption, Illusions and BFR
-Kenta's Sagitario: More Weapon Mastery via long-ranged fire arrows, and resistances to illusions, soul manip, and power and energy absorption
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Masamune's Striker: Teleportation, more forcefields made from electricity (also act as resistance to Energy and Stamina absorption), Explosion manip and Energy Absorption, and resistances to sound manipulation, gravity manipulation, stamina absorption, magnetisim manipulation, and space-time manipulation
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Tsubasa's Eagle: Stamina, Sound and Gravity Manipulation via vibrations (also acts as resistance to all 3), Power Null and limited Attack Negation, Bypass resistance, Power Reversal of attacks, Rage power, Darkness Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Emotion Manipulation, Possession, Dark Lightning Manipulation, Power and Energy Absorption and Resistance via L-Drago's dark power, Transformation, Invisibility Negation, and more resistance to power absorbing, soul manip and illusions.
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Yu's Libra: More Invulnerability and Power nulling, More gravity and sound manipulating, more stamina absorbing, more forcefield creating
And for Gingka and Ryuga......see
here and
here .
Now, Nemesis already has pretty good defenses with its dark spirit replicates defending it while still acting. Spirits who are each low 2-C themselves with mid-godly regen and their individual abilities. Even granting Acocalymon the capability of getting through them, with multiple means of making forcefields, such as using Pegasus's, Strikers, its own, etc., it's going to be incredibly difficult for Apocalymon's normal attacks to actually get to Nemesis. And even if they could as well, Nemesis still has multiple means of Invulnerability, power nulling absorbing, not to mention superior AP and Durability it has already before any of the former. Overall, none of Apcalymon's normal attacks are getting to Nemesis in the slightest due to the quanity, and quality, of his defensive abilities. And this is not even factoring the conception of Nemesis also having Apocalymon and several other Digimon abilities for itself to use back if need be.
But of course, due to updated info on him, I realize Apocalymon will start out with hax after Darkness Zone is busted out rather than actual attacks. Other than counters I already gave toward the named abilities for Apocalymon, i'll address more of this below with another short category. Stamina.
Stamina
Yes this'll be covered as well.
And I can say with almost 100% certainity that this is the only category where Nemesis absolutely
murders Apocalymon in. The difference in both combatants stamina reserves are astounding. While Apocalymon's stamina is actually pretty decent (to the point where Grand Death Big Bang is usuable), the thing that screws him over here is Nemesis having a limitless supply of stamina via Chris's Phantom Orion (and other means too). In addition to this, Nemesis also has multiple means of stamina depletion, such as upscaling from Yu's Libra addressed earlier, and here, trying to deplete Nemesis's stamina is a complete waste of time. With that, here's how Nemesis can offensively take out Apocalymon:
Whether Darkness Zone is used or not won't matter due to reasons above. That said, Nemesis and Rago would still see this and a whole lot more from the start due to Precog (which, btw, goes as far as thousands of years). Nemesis can always pull out Telekinesis to restrict Apocalymon (Who has no resistance to this, and i'll remind you, this is Telekinesis vastly upscaled from far weaker beys that can manipulate entire stars very easily) from being able to use his hax. Of course, im aware of Apocalymon also having precog, so it'd be essentially a contest of which comes first, Telekinesis or Darkness Zone. Depending on its usage, Telekinesis going first would prevent Apocalymon from even using it
since Darkness Zone requires hand/arm movement to activate. Which will kind of be hopeless to do when trapped in TK. After that, all Nemesis would need to do is things like absorb Apocalymon's power(s), absorb Apocalymon himself, attack with Dark spirits to be on the safe end, or simply just drain away at his stamina until Apocalymon has no strength left for anything else. After stamina depletion to heavily weaken him, a simple BFR to another universe or special move will seal the win for Nemesis.
Of course, stuff can still be done incase Telekinesis somehow fails and Darkness Zone is out and about succesfully. Apocalymon's abilities have counters like the ones above and once they're done with, he'll resort to attacking Nemesis, which also won't work. At this point, Apocalymon will just keep attacking and attacking until it's power and stamina runs out, ending Darkness Zone and then Nemesis can do the same thing again to defeat him.
TDLR: Both fighters have many capabilities that shouldn't be taken lightly, capabilities to use against each other. And in addition, this by no means is stompish no matter who takes it. But for me,
i'll have to vote for Rago and Nemesis on this. Eiher way you slice it, whether Darkness Zone is prevented or succesfully used, Nemesis can counter Apocalymon's abilities and completely remain safe from his attacks. And if the former, it'll be even quicker for Nemesis to take Apocalymon out without Apocalymon being able to properly fight back. In the end, I side with Nemesis being the victor.
If any counter arguments come tonight, i'll come back when possible to analyze and address them.
