JJBA-Clean up+revisions.

Jonathan - Mind Control.

Dio - Better linking. Remove the weakness of anyone aware of his stop can move in it, not how that works. While not that good but hair manipulation.

Robert speedwagon - Pointing out the obvious, remove that as that is not an actual power and 4th wall breaking unless ya can find the actual source for that and the coward weakness being afraid and being cowardly are not the same (especially as he stands his ground despite being afraid).

Caesar - Mindcontrol.

Lisa - Kars went out his way not to kill her, him stabbing and putting his blade clean through her body and missing her organs on his own free will is not a good justification. durability would be the same but the justification is wrong.

Kars - Heat, air manipulation and invisibility for ultimate kars. Had the power of the world (all life) concurrently, even explicit showings of him using air mode, plus resistance against viruses and such, has the advantages of all life on earth and all. Also his lifting strength, ultimate kars being weaker than DIO ? Obviously not. And the strong blow can break his bone blade weakness, not an actual weakness, of course if ya hit it hard enough that it would break it would break. Plus ultimate kars is not that suicidal via confidence, he actually went for the kill multiple times, Joseph just bullshitted his way barely on each and finally durability, why does he have one key for the aja boost? The aja has literally zero effect on his durability, his durability in ultimate is one constant tier.

Jotaro - Change size manipulation to body control for star finger. Addition of enhanced senses (eyesight, can accurately gaze upon things over 12 kilometers away, grabbed microscopic stands and more precisio and better eyesight than any machineas of 1988 ).

Polnareff - Minor contradictions and plus inaccurate statements (such as DIO stating he'd die if the sword went through his head, it did but he didn't die), lifting strength changed to at least above average (casually held up the 78kg polnareff), Regenerationn and upgrade chariot Requiem to wall class.

Kakyoin Noriaki, Upgrade to 8-B, he put a hole in DIO, "scratched"star platinum and Upgrade range to hundreds ofmeters and whatever that panel is. His durability justification needs to be changed, he never got punched into steel poles (only his stand) and getting gutted is not a good feat But he did get away with little damage from gettingpunched directly into an tower although the punch that did that killed him.

Muhammad avdol durability needs to be upgraded, having two tons dropped on ya and thebrushing it off kinda far above tier 10 plus upgrade lifting strength a bit, he could run while having track of a railway attached to him.

Ice - BFR, disitegratio and size manipulation plus the inability to be sensedwhile icream, the obvious void manipulation.

Doul - Upgrade to 8-B, he wounded Jotaro, downgrade durability, Jotaro prevented his death by pulling his punch (unless ya wanna consider him, barely and brieflytanking his own stand fatally wonding him as durability, that would be 8-B).

Echoes act 3 - Profile claims it increases weight by 50 kg but the exact wording happens to be feels like 50kg. Bring that up due to the fact he feels what his stand is feeling and as such may only be 50kg comparatively for his sha. Mostly because 50kg, well not exactly enough to have a car sink into concrete.

Kishibe Rohan - Transmutation, mind control, mind reading.

Not exactly sure if needed, but Heavens door, when inputted, the command is permanent, even going across the globe will not matter. (Koichi still had the command when in part 5, after he went hunting for Giorno).

Akira - Transmutation(organic beingsalso) and side note, but the calculation for chilli pepper uses the timeframe of 15 seconds of power he drained from morioh, but he clearly states if he does that (which he did) he would have no power left as morioh would be completely drained and it would be problematic because he would have no energy for "later". Now not sure about ya but 15 seconds most defintly will not be "later", even considering that he had to kill Joseph within like 10 minutes (which would take him 5 minutes bare minimum, noted clearly) meaning the city would be drained past that point still for that drain to be even considered problematic and it only needs less than 70 seconds for cityblock. Basically that feat is tier 8B, and the time he needed for beating Jotaro getting to Joseph no longer mattered, by that point he no longer cared and was in the mind set of "kill Joseph without Jotaro noticing then just escape"(which later attempts by wearing disguises).


Bruno - bfr, zippers lead into an alternate dimension, commonly used to store objects.


Diavolo - Fully capable of concealing his presence, can not be sensed properly.

Fugo upgrade to genius. He has an iq of 152.

Narancia - aerosmith travel speed change to 800kph as he only barely kept up with the 800kph private jet in the Notorius fight.

Secco - While he can liquify objects, that also extends to organic material.

Weather, upgrade shields, gotta match his raw power (tier 7-A in weather, tier 6-C in heavy).

Foo Fighters, actually give it an attack and ratings, comparable in power and speed to stone free, cut off the arm of kiss, harmed whitesnake, Regenerationn(low high to mid high in water).Body control (ha), Duplication, shapeshifting, absorbtion (of the mind variety), possesion, add its weakness (dehydrate, boil, electrocute are fatal).

Enrico - sleepinducement plus dream manipulation (but he still keeps his previous illusion creation though) and acid manipulation and street upgrade for pucci.

Johnny - Act 2-4 bullets get resistance against bfr, act 4 himself happens to be resistant to bfr (Ball Breaker also). All bullets get upgraded, wounded DIO while transformed. Multiversal+ with tusk act 4 and Finally attack deflectio.

Gyro - Lots, like 5 billion powers not sure we can even list all of the ones shown. Change durability, street or wall, consistently harmed by bullets and the like. Also scan is in fact a stand. (That or an ability granted by a stand).

Valentine - Size manipulation/shapeshifting. Also Love Train could pull in the Atlantic, mountains and more.

Overall.

Part 1 and 2 get upgraded to hypersonic, Zeppeli could react to debris as fast as an explosio, (hypersonic), Tarkus could blitz zeppeli (potentially hypersonic+). Jonathan, while suffocating, bleeding out and not even a minute before dying could outpace a gas explosio.

All pillar man get upgraded to genius, even the dog of the group (and least experienced and intelligent) is considered a genius ).

Hamon users get durability negation, minor biological manipulation and healing, all hamon users shown have that power. Or at least get assumed. Lisa lisa and joseph get likely mind control. (Taught caesar everything, trained under her).

Hierophant Green and Silver Chariot should have sizemanipulation.

All power stands in part 3 and maybe beyond get a likely size manipulation, considering how that suze manipulation works (coincidentally, while noncanon, Star Platinum did it in some novels, at least the part 3 one).

Basically any Power Stand on par with Star Platinum gets upgraded,Class 100 or ClassK.(Which would be Crazy Diamond, The Hand, The World, maybe King Crimson and Tusk but the latter not sure on).

Anything that scales will be upgraded. Tier 8-B. Accepted by Cross and Numbersguy.

The corpse grants the wielder resistance against infections/viruses/diseases. (Funny, Johnny, Gyro, Heaven Jotaro, DIO, Heaven DIO, Hot Pants).

Ball breaker and act 4 get age manipulation.

Add "At most" on the durability for most stand users. Yeah some have tier 8 statistics but get harmed by tier 9 and 10 attacks, knives, bullets, problem is, neither is wrong, both are consistent. Like Jotaro will get hit by a bullet or harmed by rocks but later get punched by the world and knocked like thousands of feet, into a building, then into the pavement tearing it up, enrico will get punched by bloodlusted stone free but then later just blades and the like harm. Or Westwood will get punched hard enough he displaces steel bars but ya get my point.

Many profiles need actually overhauls like Noriaki Kakyoi and Koichi Hirose, missing plenty of powers (flight, heat, air, manipulation for koichi), Kakyoin does not have anything listed, just tells ya look at the bottom section. This happens for most profiles, most lack even obvious and blatant powers, like Kakyoin being the offender.

Now yeah we equalize all this for some unquatifiable reason but most stands need intangibility/non-corporeality and invisibility and character indexing.

Jorge Joestar.

Kars gets size manipulation.

Kars needs updated stats and powers due to new calculations and profiles .(like getting what Pucci has now added as he copied all of his powers and dune clean up or updated scaling from Joji).

Universal Kars, survivedthe deathand rebirthof 36 universes. (Decently consistently,outside of an outlier (not this and an outlier for someone else), it is not contradicted). (That, or Regenerationn).

The cube house contains one self contained space time and described as an universe compacted into the house and thus untouchable with nothing being capable of breaking through, Kars crashed into the arrow house and went straight through and damaged the outside (obviously as he broke and entered).

The last latter two fully understandable if controversial but Ya man Somebody Data said ta make that.

Also time travel should be taken off, that or noted differently for DIO, one of the flaws of the book is that just because it is stated (mostly by joji or Jorge, the novel comes from the view of the two named, neither are omniscient and make mistakes but learn from said mistakes) while one deducted DIO could time travel, while correct the method was off and he actually used a combination of Made in heaven, the cube house, and his beyond all in conjuction. Kars is not effected, Made in heaven can time travel in the novel and loop around back to the past alongside creating new universes and such.

Heaven.

Heaven DIO should have existence erasure, considering he can erase others.

Remove the temporal paradox mention when talking about d4c. Not temporal paradoxing (paradox yes but not temporal), the game actually points out (Funny even explains) that d4c is unlike meeting your past self and if ya did ya would not be erased like his d4c entails, actually kinda explicit honestly.

Flight/Levitation. (Floats while fighting and moving, not sure which).

Matter Creation/Heat seeking attack (capable of spawning and launching tracking knives Gilgamesh style).

Over dozens of meters via shockwaves from punching (extends across the map maybe hundreds or dozens).


Can momentarily blind (Like literally, it gives ya the same view as Ndoul) (Potentially not permanent because of Jotaro, considering Platinum Over Heaven but against someone else maybe not).

(Also air manipulation as it summons tornadoes).

Lastly for DIO, on multiple occasions DIO performed the overwrite without direct contact (warped funny who was lying on the ground out of every universe and timeline simutaneously without punching him and erased his napki yet he already left the universe, Also sends out energy that slowly seek out the target and upon contact stun (mind control in cutscenes if I recall,overwrote the city of cairo by just flexing and his main 2-A feat was done passively while fighting Jotaro) yet dio can not use that power without his hands that is fact.

Which means either.

A. DIO can perform his overwrite without contact as long as his hands do not taje crippling damage. (The original fan translation states the power manifests through his hands, not punching, which could mean the exact same thing but his feats kinda point towards just meaning the power comes from his hands).

B. PIS, bullshit, wherever, but for which ?

Unsure.

Dio and Kars get resistance to death manipulation from GER. (Maybe, not actually sure if the causuality manipulation negation, covers that).

Low or Mid-Low (not combat applicable for most) for plenty as almost all have taken wounds like Polnareff getting holes put in him like his tongue, hol horse gets massive holes put in him, Jotaro gets wounds that would scar, leave deep gashes and broken bones but within days he healed, maybe even hours occasionally. (Polnareff actually kept the wound for another arc).

Basically, things like cuts, gashes, wounds heal quickly, like a day or hours, but anything like lost limbs, an eye, well that is above most.

Ball Breaker and Tusk should be Tier 2 , the funny profile states that Love Train "Unknown with Love Train (Love Train's ability makes it very difficult to kill let alone harm him. Any attack by normal means will be deflected elsewhere, and the wall itself is made out of an infinite number of dimensions.)" And considering this quote which has Funny state ball breaker at full power likely would destroy the dimensional walls of love train. Well that is solid or at least likely 2-A.

Lastly, just add some gifslike, example, that showcases various powers on the profiles. And minor but on the main page, different tabbers and quotes for all the parts exist but no different picture, example for part 4 would be better than one picture across all parts? Just making the main one look better.


Now let us wish this thread gets converted properly, this was pasted off a old sticky note and mobile . Gonna be pissed if everything git messed up by quite a bit .

You should ask to Arigarmy since he very well know the verse and previously discussed most of the proposed changes.

Bump.

Agree with most of the changes, just a few I want to talk about:

Heaven DIO's issue is probably PIS (That being able to manipulate without his hands), considering how hammered in his hands being needed to rewrite reality is.

Isn't GER's death manipulation caused by his casualty manipulation? If so, then the negation should cover it.

I'm not sure about Love Train and the Tier 2 stuff, gonna have to re-read that fight again to make sure I've got all the context.

The gifs being added sounds alright, but you could just use more detailed explanations if needed.

The thing is, he has numerous instances of no contact, in fact he can seemingly even charge up and send out the overwrite and gave it track (as mentioned), and all instances of no contact had nothing ta do with the plot.

Yeah, hence why brought up but fine with that not getting added.

Honestly tuer 2 is just from the one quote,

Nah, wanna have visual showings , would prevent questions and be nice, detailed descriptions are also good .

Hmmm, in that case, then yeah, sounds like the hands weakness was just an add-on to make him beatable but doesn't need contact.

Yeah, him having that weakness is completely fine, but contact? He has like 5 instances plus an attack that need no contact and all have him doing the overwrite.

Ye, thats why I wrote he doesn't need contact.

Just agreeing with ya man but all the other things look fine? Well still missed other things, but that falls under the "plenty of profiles lack things", all blatantly obvious thibgs.

Yeah. In case there are other things you're missing, you could just get a group to start reading Jojo and split them based on chapters (granted one part at a time). That's what we (sorta) did with PMMM Wraith Arc and Tart Magica, and well, you can see how that out.

Nah, just finisged going through the whole manga.

Got everything saved, but most felt kinda pointless and would clutter the main post.

Gyro will be a bitch though because of his many ways spin can be used, not sure what half his powers eould be listed under .

Dang son.

You could just put them in a box ya know.

Why don't you ask how Gryo's powers work in jojo discussion thread, we can make a conclusion on those that way.

Not a matter of how his power worjs, but that he used it in so many ways that his power section would become the next jojo novel . Box?

Oh. Do it anyways tho, make him haxxed

Box, by courtesy of Weekly:

Well cool, but kinda late now, going back and editing the op feels like cheating.

I mean, the thread hasn't exactly gone through much yet, so there is no issue yet, but ok.

I will call Arigarmy to let him informed about the thread.

Gonna give one hint, read cheating as "do not wanna spend hours uploading pictures to imgur ".

oh lol

Scavenging through:

- Jonathan/Caesar: It's very limited because the Hamon has to reach the body through some means (or the brain itself), but I guess it can work.

- Speedwagon: im sorry i dont speak whatever langugage that first part was can you try again in english

- Lisa Lisa: Seems good.

- Kars: You need scans to prove anything that isn't Air Manip, can't just go "oh he has their powers". What do you mean by "powers of the world", you and I both know there are two clearly different meanings in that phrase. Lifting Strength is fine. Weakness is fine.

Red Stone of Aja is already a page, his stats for the Red Stone can probably just go.

- Jotaro: Seems good.

- Polnareff: I don't think we're reading the same manga here.

- Kakyoin: The argument for whether or not Kak would have the weaker end or stronger end has been debated before, and in the end the weaker one was chosen. Check the old revision threads, it's in one of the three if not in all of their summaries. There's more times that Dio deflects Hierophant Green where there would be holes compared to actual holes being there, Jotaro's the same deal.

- Avdol: 9-C works for dura, don't know if it would be 9-B unfortunately so don't quote me on the final decision. All good here

- Vanilla Ice: Seems good, one of your imgur links ain't working tho

- N'Doul: Seems good, I'm more reluctant to keep his durability on the higher point.

- Echoes: That works, you know how much it takes to do a car like that?

- Rohan: There's probably a bunch of stuff Rohan needs that I can't recall by using Heaven's Door. Mind Reading is a bit too literal to be actual Mind Reading. Is Memory Manipulation already on Rohan's page?

- Akira: The calc used didn't use the actual amount of people in Morioh IIRC. Sorry. Transmutation is all good.

- Bruno: Seems good.

- Diavolo: Scans tho?

- Fugo: Seems good.

- Narancia: Scans tho? I don't remember him being "barely".

- Secco: Seems good.

- Weather: Seems good.

- FF: I didn't make FF's page or even realize that FF had a page created for her. Her everything needs to be fixed, that copy/paste Summary makes me blech everywhere.

- Pucci: Seems good

- Johnny: Seems okay for the first part (Diego =/= DIO get it right man), scan/link for Multi+, and finally Deflection is ok.

- Gyro: Seems fine (but scans for those bullet tanks), Scan's info was outdated pre-thread. Age Manip is okay...? Can't be certain since its still mostly Cell Manipulation thats processing his age faster, guess it's just a following ability.

- Valentine: Put it under Love Train (Johnny stated that on the outside he's thin as paper but the actual gap is bigger than it is.)

for other stuff

- Part 1/2 Speeds: Anything remotely stating that these explosions are indeed Hypersonic?

- Holy Corpse: Valentine, Scan Gyro, and Heaven DIO only since we don't have a Part 8 Johnny key or anything.

for jorge joestar

- Universal Kars: Last time we debated this we just declared it as an outlier. Whether or not it remains one isnt up to me because I forgot most of what I've read outside of main plot points.

- The House: Yeah, I'm aware of it having space-time in it while also having overlapping dimensions, but that shit's too confusing for me to debate. Can I trust it either way? Not really. It dented the floor, I don't see anything saying where they went past the first layer.

- Dio: That's fine, take it out if you have to.

Everything in the Heaven section seems okay.

- PIS or Hax?: It depends, if it's a Kakyoin thing where its contradicting more or equal times than it works, then yeah it's probably PIS. Otherwise I suggest an added range could work. It'd be best to show the aftermath of his f l e x and also the tornado thing.

and finally

- Tier 2 Johnny Boy: If my memory serves me right, a one set of infinities (Love Train) is only High 3-A.

- Main Page: I can dig through, but they'll probably be manga stuff since its (usually) higher quality and actually stretches out across the screen.

Yeah, will grab scans for what ya want.

Kars, he used air mode, and was stated to have all the powers of every organisn, considering he briefly used air mode, that should also include the other pillar man and not just wham.

Yeah but his oage states if it went through his head, it did, if he put more effort abd ravaged his brain? Well that, that is a different story .

Emerald splash still harmed dio and jotaro plus polnareff even (ripped chunk of his flesh actually) . Yeah both can deflect the attack, but not guarded still draws blood.

For akira, reiterate, not getting ya?

Multi+ for johnny is assuming he can chase valentine anywhere, infinite multiverse and all. Also my phone autocorrects anything starting with d to dio.

Explosions around that time range from mach 19-21. And zeppeli claimed as fast as an explosio, not like an explosio. Will grab a source.

Will do for the heaven dio thing.

Yes. But one set inifinity and one set infinite dimensions (plural) , quite different.

Ah.good luck.

, but upon going through the the requiem plays quietly fight, post boost aerosmith would be mftl. Moved so fast he kibda blitzed everyone .

Kinda shitty but still an ability. Minor maybe?

Oh, missed kars, yeah but why would it? The thing gets shoved down your thriat nonstop. Only thing preventing that is an outlier (for someone else) and an outlier so bad it is wirse than goku vs. One rock . And the universal statements get brought up befire and after each occasion constantly.

Cube house, denting the floor means nothing, breaking the exterior and breaking through on the other hand does.

And act 1-2 johnny would have the corpse parts. Maybe act 4 if we take him as prime Johnny (after Valentine but before the rock).

This is a lot to look into over...hmm~

Only thing that honestly is controversial is Kars, tier 2 ball breaker, heaven DIO range and apparebtly Kakyoin which completely do not agree with. Start with that .

Just to make things easier for me, i can say that the changes for the main series alone looks good to me.

Uh, that include tier 2 gyro ? And Kakyoin ?

If so ya got my thanks.

Oh that? What makes Gyro with BB Tier 2 again? The whole shield thing of Valentines?

Kakyion with the abilities, he needs changes for reals tho.

Quote.

Kak has feats of tearing and destroying the flesh of DIO, star platinum and Polnareff, just off the top of my head.

This thread was actually just Kakyoin upgrade the thread.

Oh right....yeah i remember this kind of thing here...

Wouldn't that just be like Multiversal+ range for Johnny though? Ball Breaker never went to the same extent as Tusk ACT 4 although i think that was the way their powers worked despite using the same ability that is the Golden Rotation.

I think, unless Ari says something about it, that only Johnny gets Multiversal+ range of Tusk Act 4. Cause if it's also AP, there was like some major problems or whatever a while back about it and how i, Ant, and DarkLK pretty much went with High 3-A or something for potency max. IDK what the mindset of that is now...but that's all i can give about Gyro and, by extension, Johnny.

Everything else is A-okay to me. Again, only the main series so far.

Nah ya misunderstand, ball breaker will not be getting anything range related from that, only tusk would be multiversal from feats like his range but for ap? Funny claimed that if ball breaker was full power he would have completely destroy the walls of love train which consist of infinite dimensions (dimension being universe ).

Ah.

Oh that one is the one that was controversial of it's time. 2-A BB (if at full power). IDK about this one then. Been so long on having to do with it.

It depends what the others think at this point.

Well , kinda explicit. If love train is infinite dimensions and ball breaker could have destroyed all of love train. Like kinda explicit. Well kinda not much needed ta be said . Fine honestly with likely or possibly prefixed.

It was, but this was also the reason or thing that got this wikia to not take up 2-A JJBA earlier before.

I don't mind it way of it being like it as it is now but i'd like to see what the others think of it.

? Thought tier 2 tusk was thrown out because of "can pierce infinite dimensions" but not completely and likely busting love train .

Oh right...yeah i'm really out of the whole Tier 2 issue. It was a whole year and a half since that had to be covered out on.

Yeah jojo colored team actually translated that differently, tusk has no statements like infinite dimensions now, ball breaker on the hand now.

(also how funny beat him but spoilers).

Hehehe.