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[ Yes i gave Kudos to my own thread....XD . Anyways...Serious mode activated ]
Excuse me for just a moment. In a thread concerning the Phoenix Force, we have been talking abouit exactly how to scale characters. Since i ddidn't want to derail that thread, i wanted to bring this up here. I am not saying we completely abandon the methods , or drastically downgrade [ I don't want to at all, i love these guys ] but i would just like it to be either : We scale them to feats from the past, or scale them to feats presented in the comics they are explicitly canon to .
According to Kevin Brashear and the newer evidence from Ultimates and Secret Wars being connected, this would normally drastically increase what the "Multiverse" is for those sets of comics , if we decided to use the same scaling method we have used for quite a bit of time. If we used Kevin Brashear as a stepping stone, technically we can upgrade SOME [ Those who scale to : Multi-Abstract Level Secret War and Ultimates in those comics ] characters to 1-A instead of High 1-B . The only reason that isn't is because we limit it to the comics they are shown in.
Let me show you some examples that the way we use this scaling varies from [ Using feats from the past ] to [ Using feats from the Future ] :
First Firmanent is High 1-B . Why would that be ? Eternity has shown to be 2-A in Ultimates, which is canon to Secret Wars via direct referencing it as if it happened in the past [ Especially via scaling to Death Seed Celestials and Lifebringer Galactus , who would automatically be HIgh 1-B if given the same treatement as First Firmanent ] . First Firmanent should be 2-A if the unspoken rule that [ Only the Multiverse or Omniverse shown in that comic applies ] was directly enforced here .
The above applied for : God Doom [ Wasn't shown in Secret Wars that the Multiverse was High 1-B ] ,Molecule Ma [ Same deal ] , and quite a few characters who actually scale to them directly aren't treated with the feats they have shown in the comics themselves .
The Outside has been treated as an Outerversal Structure as 1-A by the most knowledgable people on MU here [ Matthew Schroeder and Antvasima ] . Keep in mind the Outside was only directly referenced in Ultimates ... Which at best they'd be 2-A just scaling them to 2-A feats from Ultimates. I am not saying they are wrong [ I was one of them who agreed with it being 1-A, along with LuckyCharmingStar and likely a few others ] , but i am asking why would this be if Ultimates and Secret Wars supposedly are only treated as 2-A recently ? You cannot have a 1-A reality if it only has a 2-A Multiverse because it transcends that . Using that as a stepping stone, the highest MU could go in Secret Wars and Ultimates was High 2-A, which is not how we treat Secret Wars Abstract Level tiers here [ Which SHOULD be treated like Ultimates, as it is canon to it ... ] .
IF we use the scaling method we use for First Firmanent [ Ultimates Character ] and Secret Wars Characters [ God Doom , Beyonders , Molecule Man , Reed Richards , etc ] { Using former feats to justify it } :
Via scaling to Kevin Brashear being the only person who has ever exited the Multiverse, which includes 1-A realities that have been constantly visited in the past , this should/could potentially upgrade those characters and those who scale to it to
List of Characters who would receive such an upgrade [ They would each get "Secret Wars/Ultimates" key though ] :
Logos [ Above Baseline Multi-Abstract Tier . Fought Competitively against an Eternity-Rivaling being ]
Galactus [ Lifebringer Form ONLY ]
Death Seed Celestials [ Fought someone comparable to Eternity and temporarily fought high-end Multi-Abstract Level Opponents ]
ALL Multi-Abstracts show throughout the stories of Ultimates and Secret Wars [ Should get keys though ]
Secret Wars Franklin Richards & Adult Franklin Richards [ This should be a key promptly because his portrayal in Secret Wars was definitely much different , and he has enough of a impact on the story to deserve his own key . Child Franklin Richards effortlessly manipulated the Superstructure of everything destroyed by the Beyonders' , which was everything within the Multiverse, sans the Outside, which was not manipulated due to being stated to be outside imagination . Adult Franklin should be far stronger than Child Franklin due to consistent portrayals . ]
Beyonders [ Directly responsible for destroying the Multiverse in those stories ]
First Firmanent [ Comparable to Multi-Abstracts ]
Molecule Ma [ Secret Wars . Fought on par with the Beyonders', and later absorbed their power ontop of it . Should be much much stronger than Secret Wars FR and Adult FR ]
God Doom [ Fought the Beyonders' before receiving an amp from Molecule Man to share his power ]
If [Unfortunately] we agree to scale them to only feats done in those comics [ Ultimates , Secret Wars ] :
We give God Doom , Beyonders , Molecule Man , and First Firmanent a dramatic downgrade to 2-A. It would only be fair if we did that, considering the only evidence they are even High 1-B is via scaling to the past, and it could even be 1-A if we use what i dug up .
Excuse me for just a moment. In a thread concerning the Phoenix Force, we have been talking abouit exactly how to scale characters. Since i ddidn't want to derail that thread, i wanted to bring this up here. I am not saying we completely abandon the methods , or drastically downgrade [ I don't want to at all, i love these guys ] but i would just like it to be either : We scale them to feats from the past, or scale them to feats presented in the comics they are explicitly canon to .
According to Kevin Brashear and the newer evidence from Ultimates and Secret Wars being connected, this would normally drastically increase what the "Multiverse" is for those sets of comics , if we decided to use the same scaling method we have used for quite a bit of time. If we used Kevin Brashear as a stepping stone, technically we can upgrade SOME [ Those who scale to : Multi-Abstract Level Secret War and Ultimates in those comics ] characters to 1-A instead of High 1-B . The only reason that isn't is because we limit it to the comics they are shown in.
Let me show you some examples that the way we use this scaling varies from [ Using feats from the past ] to [ Using feats from the Future ] :
First Firmanent is High 1-B . Why would that be ? Eternity has shown to be 2-A in Ultimates, which is canon to Secret Wars via direct referencing it as if it happened in the past [ Especially via scaling to Death Seed Celestials and Lifebringer Galactus , who would automatically be HIgh 1-B if given the same treatement as First Firmanent ] . First Firmanent should be 2-A if the unspoken rule that [ Only the Multiverse or Omniverse shown in that comic applies ] was directly enforced here .
The above applied for : God Doom [ Wasn't shown in Secret Wars that the Multiverse was High 1-B ] ,Molecule Ma [ Same deal ] , and quite a few characters who actually scale to them directly aren't treated with the feats they have shown in the comics themselves .
The Outside has been treated as an Outerversal Structure as 1-A by the most knowledgable people on MU here [ Matthew Schroeder and Antvasima ] . Keep in mind the Outside was only directly referenced in Ultimates ... Which at best they'd be 2-A just scaling them to 2-A feats from Ultimates. I am not saying they are wrong [ I was one of them who agreed with it being 1-A, along with LuckyCharmingStar and likely a few others ] , but i am asking why would this be if Ultimates and Secret Wars supposedly are only treated as 2-A recently ? You cannot have a 1-A reality if it only has a 2-A Multiverse because it transcends that . Using that as a stepping stone, the highest MU could go in Secret Wars and Ultimates was High 2-A, which is not how we treat Secret Wars Abstract Level tiers here [ Which SHOULD be treated like Ultimates, as it is canon to it ... ] .
IF we use the scaling method we use for First Firmanent [ Ultimates Character ] and Secret Wars Characters [ God Doom , Beyonders , Molecule Man , Reed Richards , etc ] { Using former feats to justify it } :
Via scaling to Kevin Brashear being the only person who has ever exited the Multiverse, which includes 1-A realities that have been constantly visited in the past , this should/could potentially upgrade those characters and those who scale to it to
List of Characters who would receive such an upgrade [ They would each get "Secret Wars/Ultimates" key though ] :
Logos [ Above Baseline Multi-Abstract Tier . Fought Competitively against an Eternity-Rivaling being ]
Galactus [ Lifebringer Form ONLY ]
Death Seed Celestials [ Fought someone comparable to Eternity and temporarily fought high-end Multi-Abstract Level Opponents ]
ALL Multi-Abstracts show throughout the stories of Ultimates and Secret Wars [ Should get keys though ]
Secret Wars Franklin Richards & Adult Franklin Richards [ This should be a key promptly because his portrayal in Secret Wars was definitely much different , and he has enough of a impact on the story to deserve his own key . Child Franklin Richards effortlessly manipulated the Superstructure of everything destroyed by the Beyonders' , which was everything within the Multiverse, sans the Outside, which was not manipulated due to being stated to be outside imagination . Adult Franklin should be far stronger than Child Franklin due to consistent portrayals . ]
Beyonders [ Directly responsible for destroying the Multiverse in those stories ]
First Firmanent [ Comparable to Multi-Abstracts ]
Molecule Ma [ Secret Wars . Fought on par with the Beyonders', and later absorbed their power ontop of it . Should be much much stronger than Secret Wars FR and Adult FR ]
God Doom [ Fought the Beyonders' before receiving an amp from Molecule Man to share his power ]
If [Unfortunately] we agree to scale them to only feats done in those comics [ Ultimates , Secret Wars ] :
We give God Doom , Beyonders , Molecule Man , and First Firmanent a dramatic downgrade to 2-A. It would only be fair if we did that, considering the only evidence they are even High 1-B is via scaling to the past, and it could even be 1-A if we use what i dug up .
