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Zuko vs Sasuke

Well right now I have a really bad headache so can we all just forget about it before it amounts to madness.
 
Stonecoldstunner said:
I said got outsped by Haku, ergo, the Sharingan's precognition isn't going to be able to stop Zuko from hitting Sasuke, smartass.
Click to expand...
Um no. Him being outsped by Haku simply means that Haku regardless was too fast for him to react. Something Zuko who is 4km away is not. Ergo, your Haku example means nothing as unlike Haku, Zuko lacks a speed advantage.
 
I'm just going to say this.

The Sharingan doesn't mean Sasuke is untouchable (Not saying anyone was saying this), just that it would be hard for Zuko to hit him in melee.
 
Sharingan doesn't make Sasuke untouchable. However, in this case it gives Sasuke a decisive advantage and the victory here for reasons I have stated.
 
4km? Where is that coming from, that's stated nowhere in the OP,and regardless, with speed equalised, Sasuke has no advantage as his precognition is not to par, also his firebending being equal to or superior to Azula, the same Azula who's beaten the Avatar on ocassions.
 
4km as written in our sites Standard Battle Assumptions.

No in a speed equal fight, said precog is very much useful here as I have explained above. Sasuke will know Zuko's moves and Zuko does not attack faster than Sasuke can dodge or move unlike Haku did as speeds are equal.

Yet he is still only 13 tons, i.e equal to Sasuke who is 13 tons.
 
Sasuke's Sharingan has not matured enough to where his precog is going to be of much use in this fight, and I also ask, what is Sasuke defense against 2,500 degrees of heat ?
 
I mean iirc, durability wise I believe anyone 8-B or higher should be able to tank that. Iirc the surface of the sun only needs 8-B or 8-A durability to survive.
 
Anyway, Sasuke wins

While his Sharingan isn't full developed he still has some bod precog and thanks to his ninja tools and substitution jutsu he'll have an advantage.

Zuko does have good AoE with his fire bending but it doesn't seem enough in my opinion.
 
According to this, the temoerature of the surface of the sun is only 8-C. So tanking Zuko's temperature is a piece of cake.

Durability_required_to_resist_the_heat_of_the_sun
 
There fire bending is 8-B so him standing there and tanking is not recommend, plus he'll still be set on fire so just because he can take the heat doesn't mean it's wise.
 
I disagree with the precog, but now knowing that the temperature of the sun is only 8-C, is very damning, Sasuke wins.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
There fire bending is 8-B so him standing there and tanking is not recommend, plus he'll still be set on fire so just because he can take the heat doesn't mean it's wise.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was just referring to the heat part in general.
 
Since sasuke can use fire style wouldn't that mean he can copy Zuko's moves and fire bend?
 
GokuSparkle said:
@Ricsi-viragosi
So? it's not just the martial arts that allows firebenders to bend. There are martial artists in the show that can't bend. It seems to be kinda like the equivalent of a kekkai genkai. You have to be born with the potential to bend. Like the Avatar has to be born with the potential to master 4 elements.

Eh, that's like saying Sasuke can copy the Kamehameha at first sight. Cause DB uses ki/chi/qi.
Click to expand...
For the first part, not everyone can use every element in naruto either but sasuke, like all uchiha, was born with the ability to use it. He simply needed to train hes ass of to use it.

With verse equalization it can be done, especialy as naruto can create a chakra blast that is basically that
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
According to this, the temoerature of the surface of the sun is only 8-C. So tanking Zuko's temperature is a piece of cake.
Durability_required_to_resist_the_heat_of_the_sun
Click to expand...
But other Tier 8 fighters are harmed by his fire.
 
@Ricsi-viragosi

Exactly. He had to train a lot. While he can only learn firebending in the middle of a fight in this case. Also, why are we arguing so much over whether or not Sasuke can use firebending? It's not like that's what he'd likely do. Also, anyways, Zuko is 8-B because of the Comet, which wouldn't help Sasuke.

Sasuke's copy isn't that good at this point anyways. In the beginning of Naruto,I don't think he ever copied a technique in the middle of a fight, only afterwards.
 
Exept, he learned another elemental ability whitout training, and didn't have the sharingan back then. Yes, it is. He consistently copied stuff from others after he obtained it, with it being the main reason he could use the chidori.

He copied the chidori right away, and he could see, predict and copy lee's fighting style real time, exept he got blitzed.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Exept, he learned another elemental ability whitout training, and didn't have the sharingan back then. Yes, it is. He consistently copied stuff from others after he obtained it, with it being the main reason he could use the chidori.
He copied the chidori right away, and he could see, predict and copy lee's fighting style real time, exept he got blitzed.
Click to expand...
When? He didn't copy that much in the beginning of Naruto from what I rememeber.

What? No, he didn't. It took him a lot of training. No, he didn't copy him, he only saw his movements.
 
He copied the chidori (he only needed training to be able to take the speed not to use it, something explained in the manga itself), shadow clones (doesn't use it due to chakra use), lee's fighting style (its openly mentioned he copied it from their fight)
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
He copied the chidori (he only needed training to be able to take the speed not to use it, something explained in the manga itself), shadow clones (doesn't use it due to chakra use), lee's fighting style (its openly mentioned he copied it from their fight)
Click to expand...
The point is that he wasn't able to use them immediately. The same goes for firebending, Sasuke may learn to manipulate fire using martial arts, but he won't be able to use it as effectively as Zuko could. And even if he could, Zuko's experience will make him a better friebender anyways. It's not like a single technique where it's meant to do a specific thing and you can mirror it. Bending can do whatever you want, so naturally the skilled and experienced firebender would use be better at it than someone who literally learned it a couple seconds ago.
 
Sasuke could copy Lee's movements and speed from the Gaara fight...despite never seeing that fight.
 
He couldn't properly use lee's strong fist because:

-He was physicly weaker

-He was physicly slower

-He lacked the stamina to use it in a prolonged manner.


Here:.

-Physicly comparable to each other (superhuman)

-Eqauly fast with better reaction time.

-He doesn't need stamina as its not going to be a prolonged fight


Zuko being somewhat more experienced doesn't help when the enemy is much more versatile and can respond in kind to anything you do.

Beyond that, transformation, substituation, stat amps and others help a lot in winning.
 
He doesn't have better reactions, that's breaking the equalization, and you don't know if it's going to be a long fight or not.

Not true. Zuko has all sorts of fancy moves that will catch Sasuke off guard. And Sasuke has never fought a bender before, so Zuko will push him, while Zuko has fought people who use weapons and manipulate the elements even easier than Sasuke can. The sharingan and substitution will help, but the first time he copied anything was against Yoroi, and that was just a simple kick. And i believe we've already discussed substitution. And what stat amps? The sharingan? As far as I'm aware, the only thing the first state of sharingan does is give you better eysight and lets you copy things. And Sasuke never copied something as complex as an entire new way of fighting in the heat of battle, speed disadvantage or not.

Is that so? Then why didn't he evolve against Lee?
 
No. Amps are things, and sharingan amps his reaction.

Precognition makes that lmost impossible...

The first version of the sharingan made his perception good enough to see someone who was blitzing him so hard that he couldn't see him moving between the mirrors. Beyond that, chakra in general stat amps.

Because... they were not fighting to the death. It was just a sparring mach.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
No. Amps are things, and sharingan amps his reaction.
Precognition makes that lmost impossible...

The first version of the sharingan made his perception good enough to see someone who was blitzing him so hard that he couldn't see him moving between the mirrors. Beyond that, chakra in general stat amps.

Because... they were not fighting to the death. It was just a sparring mach.
Click to expand...
Zuko's MHS REACTIONS aren't allowed, but okay. I guess it's different.

Sasuke can still be hit, especially by large quantities of raging fire.

Yes, but Zuko's fighting isn't about speed.

So? Sasuke was still being pushed a lot, and was in almost as bad a condition as he was in his fight with Haku.
 
It is, because sharingan amps it.

He can see those coming and dodge before they start, and he would start with stealth anyways.

Doesn't matter, hes lack of it compared to sasuke amping himself can dodge even with more ease.

Exept the sharingan is about emotions, not physical strain. Shock and negative emotions allow it to work better, and being on the verge dying gives much more of a negative emotion than being floored.
 
I said it's different.

I don't know. he doesn't really ever do that in the first half of Naruto. Also, does that mean it's impossible for an unexperienced one-tomoe sharingan user to get caught off guard or be overwhelmed by quick large quantities of fire?

Zuko's smart and calm. He could find a way. Maybe use the environment to his advanatage. I've never seen Sasuke do that.

Decent point.
 
...

He can see and predict the "chkara" that is about to fire it, so znless from a blindspot, yes.

"he could find a way" isn't really a good point... Him being smart isn't either, as the whole thing they did with zabuza is pretty damn good tactic and inteligence wise. Plus, how can he use tree's in a way that stops someone from moving?

...
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
...
He can see and predict the "chkara" that is about to fire it, so znless from a blindspot, yes.

"he could find a way" isn't really a good point... Him being smart isn't either, as the whole thing they did with zabuza is pretty damn good tactic and inteligence wise. Plus, how can he use tree's in a way that stops someone from moving?

...
Click to expand...
But that's not how bending works. I know there's verse equalization, but that doesn't physcially altert the way Zuko's energy is used. And you can have equal speed and be staring directly at Zuko's fire and still be hit (Azula), and I doubt Sasuke will be looking directly at the incoming fire at all times, considering Zuko's output speed and moving himself too.

I don't know. Maybe use the leftover flames from his attacks to his advanatage. Like pushing Sasuke back untill he stepped into fire that Zuko had already blasted. He could just from the beginning blast fire in a circle around themselves to make this even easier too. Also, I never mentioned trees. I meant something like blasting something above so it topples down, and while Sasuke is dodging, Zuko could hit Sasuke with a fire attack. Sasuke doesn't have perfect dodging. If Zuko plans it out right, he could cause things to fall at just the right time for him to be able to hit Sasuke while he's doging.
 
Firebending is using/igniting your ki to create fire...

Sasuke can predict that. And he has X-ray vision and can see stuff fast enough that he could see how the muscles of a guy who moved faster than he could physically react to, so looking at two things at once is far from difficult.


But that can go the other way around. Sasuke could tie zuko up in ninja wire by taking him by surprisse, distracting him with shuriken and transforming and other things. While I love ATLA, some of the planning done in Naruto is better. Maybe not H2H, but planning definitly
 
It's not really the same as Naruto. Sasuke can see the result of an attack already in progress and the chakra of a jutsu, but firebending is kinda like Naruto's 1-tailed cloak. The fist does guide it, but if you've never seen firebending before, it's basically impossible to completely predict how the fire will move, and I don't think it's ever been confirmed that you build energy up in your body before you firebend, and I think Sasuke has to actively try to do that, it's not on automatic, so Sasuke either way won't see all of his attacks. His high reaction speed will help, but if Zuko's close, I'm not sure if it'll be enough.

Yeah, seeing two things may be doable, but that's very different from actually dodging two things attacking in a way made to cut off any escape for Sasuke.

Or it could not. If they fought 10 times, Zuko wouldn't win everytime, but I think maybe it'd be 6 or 7 out of 10 times. Some of the planning is better, but Sasuke is less intelligent in the LOW arc than when he's doing the super high-end ultra genius stuff.
 
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