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Zen'o Upgrade ?

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Blade0886 said:
This... makes a shit load of sense. O_O
Inb4 Multiversal Goku lol
Click to expand...
It's even low ball, because we didn't see ALL the Boxes, and the creator assume that that this is for the 12 Universes while it is supposed to be for the 10th Universe
 
it only makes sense until he said the part where he refer the idiot who created a new timeline is trunks. That is most likely not true, since Universe 10 and Universe 7 don't share the same space time continuum and they have absolute no connection to each other.

Zen'o erased 6 universes out of existence and only remains 12 of them until now, this basically means that Zen'o completely destroyed not only the physical universes but also the space time continuum of each universes. If all 18 universes back then share the same space time continuum, destroy one continuum of a universe would affect other 17 universes, but that's not the case. Zen'o destroyed 6 of them and nothing really affect other 12 universes.
 
Seems fine to me.

Considering Zen'o was stated to be able to wipe out all existence, this would scale to him.
 
That doesn't make much sense, it's making the assumption that all those drawers contain another box with another set of Time Rings. In the previous episode Beerus and Whis asked to see Universe 10's set of Time Rings, and Gowasu brought the same small box with the same set of rings. Beerus and Whis never had to specify which set of Time Rings nor were they surprised by the amount of Time Rings they saw. This plus the comment Gowasu made about a Time Ring being created recently (which is likely a reference to Trunks and the time machine creating new timelines) seem to point out the Time Rings are the same in all Worlds as they share the same space-time continuum, as these are World 10's Time Rings, which is not the pair of World 7, so a "World pairs share the same space-time continuum" argument would not be valid. Which makes sense, since we have things like the nameless planet being in "neutral space" between Worlds 6 and 7 and still having space and time just fine.
 
DeezNuts1102 said:
it only makes sense until he said the part where he refer the idiot who created a new timeline is trunks. That is most likely not true, since Universe 10 and Universe 7 don't share the same space time continuum and they have absolute no connection to each other.
Zen'o erased 6 universes out of existence and only remains 12 of them until now, this basically means that Zen'o completely destroyed not only the physical universes but also the space time continuum of each universes. If all 18 universes back then share the same space time continuum, destroy one continuum of a universe would affect other 17 universes, but that's not the case. Zen'o destroyed 6 of them and nothing really affect other 12 universes.
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While I agree it doesn't make any sense for that person to be Trunks, it doesn't mean the rest of the explanation is wrong. Most of the comment section following the OP have already polished the original theory. The fact that the idiot may be Trunks was just a random guess from the OP, which of course makes no sense. the fact remains that each universe potentially contains, if not an infinite, a grand amount of timelines, each green ring representing a divergent one from the original timeline that is what Zamasu and Gomasu are in. While all the different universes surely didn't share the same space-time continuums, there is no denying that all of them are organised the same way. Just look at the divine hierarchy. Until the introduction of Zamasu and Gomasu, there was no proof that Kaioshins were existing everywhere, and very well would have been present only in universes 6 and 7. We now know that this isn't the case, and can reasonably speculate that there is a set of Kaioshins for every universe, and we can extend this claim to how the space-time continuum works. Hence, Zeno destroying 6 universes entirely would result into destroying their timelines too, making the Multiversal claim actually sound.
 
Only the green time rings are created when timelines are formed and there were only 4 of them, there is no proof that the other boxes hold time rings, cause that doesn't make sense why would gowasu only show beerus and whis one set of time rings when they wanted to see all of them?
 
LazyHunter said:
That doesn't make much sense, it's making the assumption that all those drawers contain another box with another set of Time Rings. In the previous episode Beerus and Whis asked to see Universe 10's set of Time Rings, and Gowasu brought the same small box with the same set of rings. Beerus and Whis never had to specify which set of Time Rings nor were they surprised by the amount of Time Rings they saw. This plus the comment Gowasu made about a Time Ring being created recently (which is likely a reference to Trunks and the time machine creating new timelines) seem to point out the Time Rings are the same in all Worlds as they share the same space-time continuum, as these are World 10's Time Rings, which is not the pair of World 7, so a "World pairs share the same space-time continuum" argument would not be valid. Which makes sense, since we have things like the nameless planet being in "neutral space" between Worlds 6 and 7 and still having space and time just fine.
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A type of TimeVault in Kaioshin Realm has boxes with 4 rings that are worlds (parallel universes), each one are created when a new world is born.

There are what seem to be thousands of boxes, probably much more.

That is only for 1 universe and there are 12. There were used to be 18 but Zeno destroyed 6 because he got annoyed.

Which makes Zeno Multiversal casually.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...kzfPDkXJmHLMNlEQa5kQCL0B/w1218-h685-no/17.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...LNicDpmxDd-Gp6C1wm6ACL0B/w1218-h685-no/18.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...C5aZv4rKSy3fduhZbWHACL0B/w1218-h685-no/19.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...8Vz2ys5ekfenUhARrVIgCL0B/w1218-h685-no/20.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...DkCF3wyW0ZGT2DxUHEeQCL0B/w1218-h685-no/21.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...Rf7sUkM-rS9FAI_wn6XgCL0B/w1218-h685-no/22.png´╗┐i´╗┐
 
I also notice here a lot of people denying this for certain reason, but who were already pretty much answered in the comment chain of the OP's link lol
 
Also this doesn't prove that all universes share the same space-time continuum because beerus and whis said they were on a journey to see all the universes time rings though that wasn't exactly true as they only wanted the see universe's 10's time rings because they were suspicious of zamasu. What this tells me is that each universe has their own set of time rings which makes sense to me.

Unless the arugement is that universe 10 has all the time rings though there is really nothing to support that, and the time ring that just recently formed couldn't have been because of trunks because that happen in universe 7 not 10 unless all shared a space-time continuum but they don't because if it was trunks who caused that time ring to formed there should be at least 2 time rings that formed recently not one, remember cell killed trunks in one timeline and went back in time 3 years before trunks came so there should have been a ring for when cell messed with time and one for when trunks messed with time at the very least, in fact i remember there being like 3 or 4 timelines that were as a result of the whole trunks thing.Gowasu only mentioned one event that happened some time ago not 3 or 4 that happen in a short amount of time.
 
Given the uncertainties and possible contradictions, it may be better not to upgrade him.
 
AllFiction said:
contradictions? Why
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Celestial Pegasus said:
Only the green time rings are created when timelines are formed and there were only 4 of them, there is no proof that the other boxes hold time rings, cause that doesn't make sense why would gowasu only show beerus and whis one set of time rings when they wanted to see all of them?
Click to expand...
 
This is very shaky to me it's based on the assumption that the other boxes also contain time rings when we don't even know what's in them and also contradicted by the fact that beerus asked to see all their time rings so why did they only bring out one set of them if they supposedly had 1000s of other sets.
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
This is very shaky to me it's based on the assumption that the other boxes also contain time rings when we don't even know what's in them and also contradicted by the fact that beerus asked to see all their time rings so why did they only bring out one set of them if they supposedly had 1000s of other sets.
Click to expand...
I can see why you're confused. Beerus and Whis didn't ask to see every single ring, only the Time Ring, aka the White Ring, because that was what Black Goku was wearing. They had no interest in the green rings.
 
Not sure if the dimension they entered only belongs to U10 either. Perhaps they showed Beerus the box that holds the most significance, the time ring which is white is the one wielded by the Kaioshins and they wanted to check if a time-ring(white) was stolen. The others aren't used for travel. Gowasu I believe also stated another time-ring appeared on the top *row.* I think that indicates each box should hold at least a single time-ring but if not, at least green rings which are only created when a new timeline's generated. Besides, the priority was to check for Black's signature, no need to check every single drawer in existence I suppose.
 
I have seen the episode, so I already know where the green time rings come from: one for each new timeline/parallel universe created because of time travel to the past. My question, which others have made and the link in the OP doesn't really answer; is where does the assumption that all drawers contain more time ring comes from? Because I've seen nothing indicating that in the episode. In fact, the box used is the same box that was shown in the previous episode, containing one main ring and four additional rings that indicate four parallel universes/worlds. Wouldn't it make more sense to invite Beerus and Whis to the vault and show them the drawers if those truly contained more time rings?

So far it seems to me that each World has a single grey Time Ring and additional green rings for each parallel world. And while there isn't proof of separate timelines for each universe so far, there are some things that could hint otherwise. I'm not actually arguing for a single time-continuum, since I have no proof either way, but I don't see where this assumption for the drawers having thousands of additional green rings comes from. In fact, Gowasu's words indicate the last green time ring that appeared did it in the small box he showed Zamasu. Shouldn't the small box be already full if there were thousands of previous green rings, making it so that new green rings would appear in new boxes in other drawers?
 
Aside from the fact that this is pure speculation, isn't time traveling to the past very illegal on a godly scale in the DB verse? It wouldn't make sense for all of those to contain rings, since there's allegedly thousands.
 
I believe it was more of an option to check them, they didn't need to check every single box and their priority was to search for Black's ki signature. Gowasu most likely showed them the box containing the time ring that is connected to the current timeline of U10. There's no need to assume there's only 1 time-ring simply because Gowasu only showed them one, there were plently more being used by the Supreme Kais. So I'd say the other boxes contain rings as well, it'd be kind of fallacious to assume otherwise since Gowasu even stated that another time ring recently appeared in the top row. Nothing except for the existence of the rings in that enclosed dimension was mentioned. That's my belief at least. If you think about it, Myriad timelines were generated by Mira in DBO so they could be trying to tell that "screwing with countless of timelines" type of story in DBS.
 
There is no proof that the other boxes contain time rings it's an assumption, saying they didn't show the rest for whatever reason is again also an assumption we need explicit proof. Beerus asked to see their "time rings" and they showed them that one box that is all we know. It's completly speculative to say there are other time rings when they have only been shown to have one set of time rings so far, for all we know those other spaces for time rings also have boxes but they are empty so they are storage spaces for the appearance of future time rings while they only have that one set currently.
 
Just commenting, but any time you use a Time Ring going to the future and change something, another Green Time Ring should appear, as the future of your present is the past of a more distant future, therefore creating another timeline. So, in my opinion, it makes sense that there are more than 4 green ones, and the grey one, which is the specific of that timeline, I guess.
 
That's not how it works the time rings can only be used to go to the future and then back to the present but not the past because messing with the past is dangerous and highly restrictive even among the gods, it is when people try to change the past is when a new timeline is created.
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
That's not how it works the time rings can only be used to go to the future and then back to the present but not the past because messing with the past is dangerous and highly restrictive even among the gods, it is when people try to change the past is when a new timeline is created.
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The present is the future's past, and the future is the past of a more distant future, so, yeah, changing the future means changing everything from that point omwards. Like, imagine if Zamasu would have eradicated those aliens after seeing the 1000 year skip, or in a 500 year skip, do you think that it would be the same future? I hope you understand what I say. Edit: better example: imagine Goku went to the future during Android Saga, saw the apocalipsis they were in, came back to the present and killed Android 18 and 17. You still would have that terrible future and a new timeline, not?
 
Traveling to the future automatically means predestination. In that future's future, people from the past already came.
 
The real cal howard said:
Traveling to the future automatically means predestination. In that future's future, people from the past already came.
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That would mean also that if you go to the past, in your timeline, you had already gone, so no new timeline creation?
 
Okay, to make my self clear: I go to the future and I bring from the future a super new advanced car that flies. New timeline (that is, changing the future past, which is the present, that is what I am trying to say). Edit: technically, the paradoxes are avoided by the creation of new timelines? Anyway, too tired to think about this stuff.
 
I agree with putting a "possibly 2-B" on Zen'o's file. It has much backing it. But we aren't certain. Plus it isn't like Zen'o can be used in a battle anyway. I agree with this. Since we've accepted worse before. Plus I don't see where they asked for all of the rings, just the time ring.
 
OK!

So Black had the silver ring which is one per universe which is the one Gowaso showed Whis though I could be wrong so can someone confirme this for me,if so that explains why he only showed the one box.
 
@PaChi. You complicated things by making your example a bootstrap paradox. Because that future had to have gotten that tech from somewhere.

To everyone else, I tried doing the same upgrade to Arceus with the same amount of speculation (with less plot holes) to no avail.
 
@Real cal howard that paradox is not only very common, but also solveable by the fact that it would have created a new timeline, meaning said paradox wouldn't exist.

Do you mind linking it?
 
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