Zeno EE resistance

[Accelerate420]

see arguments above

I saw your arguments and I disagree with them, DT just summed up my thoughts perfectly enough that I don't need to voice them further.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I did, I'll read it again cause I merely skimmed through and only really read the arguments cause I couldn't care less about the more minor stuff.


I already did, tho...Also, what's with this pre-concieved notion that mods don't have a life. They are people too, you know? They have more important things to do than look at a single website all day long. So yes, I do recommend messaging one to get them to check it out.

well I'm glad that you're gonna be reading it through at least, this debate is one where details matter tbh

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I saw your arguments and I disagree with them, DT just summed up my thoughts perfectly enough that I don't need to voice them further.

added, but you're seriously not gonna check out any of the summed up argument that was in the same message as the one I quoted you in, and vote regardless of the counterarguments I've been putting in place for the last hour?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

also who's DT

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Where were we uhh. Yes omnipresence. Banana duck, what you're doing is taking zamasu's omnipresence out of context, the reason he's labeled nigh-omnipresent is because he's omnipresent throughout universe 7 but not all the other universes. Him fusing with the universe and effecting time, making it his body is what makes him low 2-C, and is why he's omnipresent with Uni+ range, the "likely low multiversal" range is because he started to bleed into other timelines which is why he's only omnipresent in U7 and why the profile says "eventually omnipresent", if you disagree with this then you basically disagree that zamasu is low 2-C. Now that we know this, we clearly see zeno's light being emitted but zamasu is not being erased at all even after it expands and this makes sense and is consistent with how zeno's EE works.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

wait how is Fusion Zamasu considered omnipresent in the entire universe 7 but didn't cover the past timeline that time

wasn't the condition for a character to be low 2-C or universe+ range is that they can affect the entirety of spacetime continuum at the same time

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

wait how is Fusion Zamasu considered omnipresent in the entire universe 7 but didn't cover the past timeline that time

wasn't the condition for a character to be low 2-C or universe+ range is that they can affect the entirety of spacetime continuum at the same time

He did effect all of universe 7's space time, it was stated he merged with the entire universe, and he even effected time as he was being sensed and seen in the present which means he was fusing with the space time continuum too.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

He did effect all of universe 7's space time, it was stated he merged with the entire universe, and he even effected time as he was being sensed and seen in the present which means he was fusing with the space time continuum too.

that is actually my problem with it.

the video only showed a fraction of Zamasu appearing in the present time but not covering the entirety of the present timeline just like the future timeline, aka the fusion is still undergoing and he was erased completely before he can completely affect the entirety of it, else if he did fully merge with the spacetime the past timeline would have been erased as well and even Goku and the crew with the Time Machine shouldn't be able to escape it. Though there were some paradoxes in the anime especially with Zen'o so have to make do with statements that yeah he did merge with it.

the reason I believe Zeno didn't really hit himself with the EE is because of the fact that he didn't completely erase the entire Spacetime Continuum of Universe 7 only the parts affected by Fusion Zamasu. And the fact that Goku was able to move in the voided space and Zen'o is still floating there as if time moves forward could just mean he destroyed only that snapshot of the universe which would also explain how the present wasn't affected, only the future and the time ahead of it.

DBS is crazy wack yo

on other note​

as for vote, I disagree I've been watching this thread and DT makes a good point and it is nonsensical for Zen'o to include himself in the attack if he can do it without affecting himself which he portrayed to be capable off during the Tournament of power

 

[AKM sama]

This was sufficiently discussed in the last thread though. There was no reason to make another thread again. DT pretty much summed it up anyway.

 

[RoyGundam]

Disagree. The most likely explanation is that Zeno was simply not nuking himself considering he has shown a tremendous amount of selectivity when erasing universes

 

[RisingIons]

Bruh why is this still open? Come on staff.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

that is actually my problem with it.

the video only showed a fraction of Zamasu appearing in the present time but not covering the entirety of the present timeline just like the future timeline, aka the fusion is still undergoing and he was erased completely before he can completely affect the entirety of it, else if he did fully merge with the spacetime the past timeline would have been erased as well and even Goku and the crew with the Time Machine shouldn't be able to escape it. Though there were some paradoxes in the anime especially with Zen'o so have to make do with statements that yeah he did merge with it.

the reason I believe Zeno didn't really hit himself with the EE is because of the fact that he didn't completely erase the entire Spacetime Continuum of Universe 7 only the parts affected by Fusion Zamasu. And the fact that Goku was able to move in the voided space and Zen'o is still floating there as if time moves forward could just mean he destroyed only that snapshot of the universe which would also explain how the present wasn't affected, only the future and the time ahead of it.

DBS is crazy wack yo

on other note​

as for vote, I disagree I've been watching this thread and DT makes a good point and it is nonsensical for Zen'o to include himself in the attack if he can do it without affecting himself which he portrayed to be capable off during the Tournament of power

Oh so I guess we’re just gonna ignore that this is wrong? He clearly erased more than just the parts affected by infinite zamasu because infinite zamasu was visibly seen to just be surrounding the planet, but zeno still erased the entirety of the universe
Even the profiles say that zeno erased the entire universe, and also the fact that they had to escape to the time machine shows that they would have been erased too
The fact that you think that zeno being able to select who he erases matters is proof that you didn’t read this

ok there are a 2 things that can be proven that justify zeno having EE, that being.....

1. Do zeno's white light balls erase what they touch instead of just being for visual affect?
2. Does Zeno actually touch his attack or not?
assuming the answer is yes to both these questions, then zeno would have EE resistance due to touching something that erases what it touches

Now as for proving point 1, I'd like you to take a look at this image. What is happening here is that after zeno's white balls had expanded from his hands and became larger, it reached zamasu in the sky and began to erase him. The reason this matter is that because it expanded from what was already in his hands, those 2 white lights he hold also erase stuff. There's also examples throughout dragon ball as well as super that show attacks in their "charging" state still being made of the same matter/energy as the attack itself, a good example being when goku literally just does kefla like this while the kamehameha is still charging, establishing that it was able to somewhat take the energy of kefla's blast which was stated to be able to one shot goku if it hit him.
Anyways, so the erasure's light does indeed erase what it touches because it is the same energy or whatever as the erasure itself. The fact that zeno also was seemingly erasing zamasu with just the white ball expanding is further proof supporting it can erase on contact, and it doesn't contradict the other uses of zeno's erasure since we can just treat it as the attack charging, since we see him charging it every time we see him using it.

as for proving point 2, it should be easier and simpler
the goku kamemeha grind comes back as evidence here, because we know that when characters charge attacks, they're touching them, otherwise that scene wouldn't make any sense at all since goku can't fly without it in the tournament of power
also just from observation alone it is pretty clear that he's touching it, and if someone were to say that he wasn't touching it then they would actually need to show some kind of proof for it since I've already shown the proof I need

also just remember that it's stated a few times that nobody can defeat zeno, and given that, it also makes it pretty clear with author intention that zeno shouldn't be erasable by characters like beerus
and EE resistance is something we've already seen from frieza a few times, and he is a far weaker character than the omni king of course
so the argument is undeniably airtight from a narrative and writing standpoint, there is absolutely no reason that zeno should have any kind of susceptibility to EE like hakai, so there's even less reason to disagree with zeno EE resistance really

wrong, when zeno's zamasu erasure was considered a ki blast the wiki defaulted to saying that he tanked his own attack, so clearly they believe otherwise
also see arguments above

see arguments above

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This was sufficiently discussed in the last thread though. There was no reason to make another thread again. DT pretty much summed it up anyway.

Every counter argument presented thus far has been invalidated at some point in the thread, a lot of counter arguments are nothing less than actual lies about things that never happened and don’t exist, many of the people disagreeing have even decided to go along with already disproved logic.
No, it was not discussed sufficiently and still hasn’t been, this change is so obvious, and I’ve given tons of evidence for it yet many people have made the choice to blatantly ignore every single reply discussing what they have already said and choose to vote regardless of what has actually been proven to be true
so no, whoever “DT” is they most definitely have not summed it up, they’ve likely already been solidly disproven

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree. The most likely explanation is that Zeno was simply not nuking himself considering he has shown a tremendous amount of selectivity when erasing universes

His selectivity only applies when he actually does the erasure
had you read the relevant arguments you would realize that I’m strictly referring to when he touches the 2 white lights that appear every time he erases something
which undeniably, he is shown touching completely

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Bruh why is this still open? Come on staff.

Stop expecting the staff to close every single thread that you disagree with
(Even though this is occasionally how this website works)
And I’ve debunked you in particular already, so why not slow down and go back to read my reply to you before you reply to this and say something ridiculous

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Gonna disagree. Trying to take the "destroy the world" statements and interpreting it as Zeno actively trying to kill himself, since he is part of the world, but failing is just so stretching that to a nonsensical degree. Heck, would you seriously say the world wasn't deleted because Zeno remained?

And that's the only argument in the OP against Zeno just being able to control his ability so as to not hurt himself when attacking. So yeah, I'm going with Zeno's erasure just not being a suicide attack in nature.

Ohhh this argument

Of course people would all worship this post, since it’s a complete strawman that ignores most of the arguments and all of the details (which works since nobody bothers to read anything here)
The fact that people are still agreeing with this obviously wrong, long disproved argument really says something

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Where were we uhh. Yes omnipresence. Banana duck, what you're doing is taking zamasu's omnipresence out of context, the reason he's labeled nigh-omnipresent is because he's omnipresent throughout universe 7 but not all the other universes. Him fusing with the universe and effecting time, making it his body is what makes him low 2-C, and is why he's omnipresent with Uni+ range, the "likely low multiversal" range is because he started to bleed into other timelines which is why he's only omnipresent in U7 and why the profile says "eventually omnipresent", if you disagree with this then you basically disagree that zamasu is low 2-C. Now that we know this, we clearly see zeno's light being emitted but zamasu is not being erased at all even after it expands and this makes sense and is consistent with how zeno's EE works.

This debunks the light having an erasing property. Which means that zeno doean't resist EE for this reason, he should narratively, but wiki doesn't give away abilities like that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This debunks the light having an erasing property. Which means that zeno doean't resist EE for this reason, he should narratively, but wiki doesn't give away abilities like that.

Apparently the wiki DOES give away abilities like this since his profile still has stuff like ki blasts, enhanced senses, resistance to extreme cold, afterimages
also what that post does not debunk shit, if you still genuinely believe that it does then gimme a second I’m just gonna destroy your argument

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Apparently the wiki DOES give away abilities like this since his profile still has stuff like ki blasts, enhanced senses, resistance to extreme cold, afterimages
also what that post does not debunk shit, if you still genuinely believe that it does then gimme a second I’m just gonna destroy your argument

That's a universal energy system in the verse, but stuff like "zeno is completely unbeatable!" Doesn't mean he should get resistance to transmutation because of majin buu's candy beam, or a resistance to every ability in dragon ball.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Where were we uhh. Yes omnipresence. Banana duck, what you're doing is taking zamasu's omnipresence out of context, the reason he's labeled nigh-omnipresent is because he's omnipresent throughout universe 7 but not all the other universes. Him fusing with the universe and effecting time, making it his body is what makes him low 2-C, and is why he's omnipresent with Uni+ range, the "likely low multiversal" range is because he started to bleed into other timelines which is why he's only omnipresent in U7 and why the profile says "eventually omnipresent", if you disagree with this then you basically disagree that zamasu is low 2-C. Now that we know this, we clearly see zeno's light being emitted but zamasu is not being erased at all even after it expands and this makes sense and is consistent with how zeno's EE works.

“He’s omnipresent throughout universe 7” prove it
“If he’s not the entirety of universe 7 he’s not 2-C, untrue because he was still expanding 4 dimensionally, but even if this were true then it’d not matter because the profile itself has a statement that shows that zamasu was not done fusing with the entire universe, and was thus not the entirety of it
it is visibly shown, it is stated, what the hell more could you possibly want??????????? Just give up man
And also the fact that before the erasure scene, GOKU VEGETA AND TRUNKS LITERALLY SHOOT UP AT THE SKY, AND IT TAKES TIME TO REACH HIM BECAUSE HE’S NOT OMNIPRESENT
if you continue saying that Zamasu was the entirety of the universe despite a massive abundance of evidence, along with the ******* wiki itself disagreeing with you then I literally have no idea what it will take to get you to understand the most common of common sense

That's a universal energy system in the verse, but stuff like "zeno is completely unbeatable!" Doesn't mean he should get resistance to transmutation because of majin buu's candy beam, or a resistance to every ability in dragon ball.

Yes my favorite universal energy system
resistance to extreme cold, afterimage creation, and cosmic radiations
also he literally rules over the gods of destructions, so obviously the people known for having erasing powers, and existing for the purpose of erasing stuff saying zeno is unbeatable holds a bit more weight than whatever relevance buu has left

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The only good part about this is that thanks to the thread being this long, there are a ton of arguments (although many of them are blatantly reused) so next time I’ll just be able to put every argument possible into the OP and then I won’t have to worry about people disagreeing

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

“He’s omnipresent throughout universe 7” prove it
“If he’s not the entirety of universe 7 he’s not 2-C, untrue because he was still expanding 4 dimensionally, but even if this were true then it’d not matter because the profile itself has a statement that shows that zamasu was not done fusing with the entire universe, and was thus not the entirety of it
it is visibly shown, it is stated, what the hell more could you possibly want??????????? Just give up man
And also the fact that before the erasure scene, GOKU VEGETA AND TRUNKS LITERALLY SHOOT UP AT THE SKY, AND IT TAKES TIME TO REACH HIM BECAUSE HE’S NOT OMNIPRESENT
if you continue saying that Zamasu was the entirety of the universe despite a massive abundance of evidence, along with the ******* wiki itself disagreeing with you then I literally have no idea what it will take to get you to understand the most common of common sense

Yes my favorite universal energy system
resistance to extreme cold, afterimage creation, and cosmic radiations
also he literally rules over the gods of destructions, so obviously the people known for having erasing powers, and existing for the purpose of erasing stuff saying zeno is unbeatable holds a bit more weight than whatever relevance buu has left

okay, he's stated to be trying to become the universe, he was also effecting the present meaning he was also effecting time, He also started to bleed into other timelines implying that he'd already finished merging with the future timeline, if this sounds familiar then yes it is because this is his justification on the profile, Zamasu became the universe and started infecting other timelines means he's universe+ sized and was becoming low multiversal, this range het got from being that big, which means he's omnipresent over a universe+ sized area and eventually over the entire multiverse. I like that you quote the "trying" from the profile then ignore completely the part under it which says "He merged himself with an entire universal space-time continuum, making it his body". If you don't like this then downgrade zamasu lol.
He got that because I'm pretty sure he doesn't need oxygen to breathe.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

okay, he's stated to be trying to become the universe, he was also effecting the present meaning he was also effecting time, He also started to bleed into other timelines implying that he'd already finished merging with the future timeline, if this sounds familiar then yes it is because this is his justification on the profile, Zamasu became the universe and started infecting other timelines means he's universe+ sized and was becoming low multiversal, this range het got from being that big, which means he's omnipresent over a universe+ sized area and eventually over the entire multiverse. I like that you quote the "trying" from the profile then ignore completely the part under it which says "He merged himself with an entire universal space-time continuum, making it his body". If you don't like this then downgrade zamasu lol.
He got that because I'm pretty sure he doesn't need oxygen to breathe.

Yeah it doesn’t say that on the profile man, I just checked
and regardless of if he’s the entire universe or not he’s still low 2-C for affecting space time I believe so
also him going into other timelines doesn’t mean he was the entirety of the initial universe
If I have an infinite amount of burgers, I can take a bite of every one of them and I’d be eating an infinite amount of food
I don’t need to finished everything burger for it to be infinite
although there is an argument for high 3-A infinite zamasu since the burgers themselves aren’t infinite in size……but that’s like, not relevant since we’re strictly deciding a single ability of zeno’s
the point is, zeno’s blast taking time to reach him is no different than the Saiyans blasts also taking time to reach him due to the fact that he isn’t everywhere at once
Contradiction solved, happy?

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Disagree, FRA

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yeah it doesn’t say that on the profile man, I just checked
and regardless of if he’s the entire universe or not he’s still low 2-C for affecting space time I believe so
also him going into other timelines doesn’t mean he was the entirety of the initial universe
If I have an infinite amount of burgers, I can take a bite of every one of them and I’d be eating an infinite amount of food
I don’t need to finished everything burger for it to be infinite
although there is an argument for high 3-A infinite zamasu since the burgers themselves aren’t infinite in size……but that’s like, not relevant since we’re strictly deciding a single ability of zeno’s
the point is, zeno’s blast taking time to reach him is no different than the Saiyans blasts also taking time to reach him due to the fact that he isn’t everywhere at once
Contradiction solved, happy?

It doesn't, what?
No effecting space time is no where near enough for low 2-C, you need to effect a universal sized space time continuum, which means you have to effect all of time, zamasu effecting other timelines means he's already merged with the universe and started infecting others. I have no idea what that analogy has to do with anything or what it's trying to prove. This means zamasu was everywhere, zamasu was only really erased when he vanished all at once, which is what happens every time zeno uses his erase.

 

[AKM sama]

So should I close this thread? It seems rejected.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Probably?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You should let banana duck decide that first so he doesn't go on a rampage despite everyone disagreeing with him.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So should I close this thread? It seems rejected.

It wouldn’t be rejected if people were actually willing to look at the more recent arguments
I may just have to make a new thread

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It wouldn’t be rejected if people were actually willing to look at the more recent arguments
I may just have to make a new thread

Don't make a new thread if this is rejected.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Don't make a new thread if this is rejected.

I don’t see why a bunch of random people voting cluelessly on a thread should stop the thread from being remade
something as obvious as this is bound to be accepted at some point assuming the entire website isn’t incompetent

 

[AKM sama]

I mean, it doesn't take a genius to notice that this has been rejected. The notion that Zeno's erasure is some suicide attack that is supposed to erase the user himself is really farfetched.

I am aware what it feels like to have a thread rejected when you believe that you're right. We all go through that experience. But at some point, you just have to wonder that maybe you could be wrong or your points are not that convincing, and that it's not going to change the way you want.