-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Zarathustra vs literally Hell
- Thread starter Tony_di_bugalu
- Start date
- 21,783
- 4,826
Another way to think about it
Would Eren die if the Attack Titan's neck was cut by Ren?
Would Eto die if the One Eyed Owl's neck was cut by Ren?
Biologically speaking, both of those people are connected to the thing that is having its neck cut, but those things are no more than an outer shell. Closer to armour than a neck.
They aren't their real necks, or even their real bodies.
I imagine this is a similar case.
Would Eren die if the Attack Titan's neck was cut by Ren?
Would Eto die if the One Eyed Owl's neck was cut by Ren?
Biologically speaking, both of those people are connected to the thing that is having its neck cut, but those things are no more than an outer shell. Closer to armour than a neck.
They aren't their real necks, or even their real bodies.
I imagine this is a similar case.
- 12,659
- 2,434
i mean ren can still sense the actual naraka and go to the main one and the curse likely works. I think that can kill the soul inside the jewel but i'm not 100% sure on this so don't @ me
edit: I think alrfy just answered it
edit: I think alrfy just answered it
- 1,809
- 271
I also dont want to derail this via dissecting things to the 1000ths degree or something. I just think that sometimes thinks are not as cut and dry.
I would suggest a little summary:
Ren and Naraku both are resistant apparently to Soulmanipulation, to Mindmanipulation, to Illusions and the like.
Ren has an 1A effective curse to which Naraku would have no way to answer - he would be 100% dead if the curse gets in effect
Naraku has in-death activated eternal sealing in a timeless dimension of which Ren apparently cant escape from
Ren apparently starts his matches with his time acceleration / speed stuff to instantly blitz the opponent
Naraku has Power Nullification on eye contact which he does not use IC immediately, as the will of the jewel he has to realize the opponent is a threat before using it (Magatsuhi the previous "Will" didnt used it against Sesshoumaru because he didnt perceived him as a threat)
Naraku has Reality Warping to stone or the insides of an opponent to a pit of accid with a thought but for both he needs to know where to target
Naraku has an active 360% barrier surrounding him - depending on the MT Ren scales to the entire debate whether he would slice him could come to an halt since the barrier would maybe prevent the attack regardless the direction
Is that it to sum up for now? Have I missed something?
I would suggest a little summary:
Ren and Naraku both are resistant apparently to Soulmanipulation, to Mindmanipulation, to Illusions and the like.
Ren has an 1A effective curse to which Naraku would have no way to answer - he would be 100% dead if the curse gets in effect
Naraku has in-death activated eternal sealing in a timeless dimension of which Ren apparently cant escape from
Ren apparently starts his matches with his time acceleration / speed stuff to instantly blitz the opponent
Naraku has Power Nullification on eye contact which he does not use IC immediately, as the will of the jewel he has to realize the opponent is a threat before using it (Magatsuhi the previous "Will" didnt used it against Sesshoumaru because he didnt perceived him as a threat)
Naraku has Reality Warping to stone or the insides of an opponent to a pit of accid with a thought but for both he needs to know where to target
Naraku has an active 360% barrier surrounding him - depending on the MT Ren scales to the entire debate whether he would slice him could come to an halt since the barrier would maybe prevent the attack regardless the direction
Is that it to sum up for now? Have I missed something?
- 12,659
- 2,434
does naraku have to activate barrier or is passive?
- 1,809
- 271
Ever since Naraku 3.0 Post Mount Hakurei it has become passive. Earlier versions needed the version to be activated.
EOS he actively deactivates it however due to a) people having various means to bypass it either way and b) him absorbing every stuff in sight
When it is broken / bypassed he has to re-cast it, which takes no more than a thought. He can actively grant it to others and take it from them away as well.
EOS he actively deactivates it however due to a) people having various means to bypass it either way and b) him absorbing every stuff in sight
When it is broken / bypassed he has to re-cast it, which takes no more than a thought. He can actively grant it to others and take it from them away as well.
- 12,659
- 2,434
how strong is the barrier again?
- 1,809
- 271
Small City or City level. I would need to find the actual Megatons. If Ren is confirmed to be in the high Megaton Range (triple digits maybe) its a moot point either way since Sesshoumaru who is at 995 MT was casually breezing through his main body, who is even harder to penetrate than his barrier.
- 12,659
- 2,434
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Liger686/Dies_Irae_-_Wolfgang_levels_Berli i think ren somewhat scales? I mean wolfie is superior but he isn't inferior by that much? I could be wrong ofc
- 1,809
- 271
Well that is still above what I believe Narakus barrier can withstand honestly. Alright, barrier is not an argument here.
With how things are we are back to either debating the technicalities and philosophies of 1A Curse in comparison to Narakus uniqueness
and even if we were to agree in the end that Rens decapacitation counts we then would continue to debate about Narakus post-death eternal sealing affecting Ren since he has no timeless dimension negation
Which is a massive task...
and leads me to vouch for inconclusive here finally.
With how things are we are back to either debating the technicalities and philosophies of 1A Curse in comparison to Narakus uniqueness
and even if we were to agree in the end that Rens decapacitation counts we then would continue to debate about Narakus post-death eternal sealing affecting Ren since he has no timeless dimension negation
Which is a massive task...
and leads me to vouch for inconclusive here finally.
- 6,470
- 1,788
@Red
Should be. LDO members were also in the destruction of Berlin and had no problem whatsoever. Even then, the feat was done veeeery early much before the start of the true events by years so they are pretty much stronger than what the calc says to an unknown degree.
Oknowbyedontsayanythingstupidtoforcemetocomeback ovo
Should be. LDO members were also in the destruction of Berlin and had no problem whatsoever. Even then, the feat was done veeeery early much before the start of the true events by years so they are pretty much stronger than what the calc says to an unknown degree.
Oknowbyedontsayanythingstupidtoforcemetocomeback ovo
- 21,783
- 4,826
- 12,659
- 2,434
true words man also monarchMonarch Laciel said:
Anyway well he can't get out of range from that sealing? I mean he could see it in slow motion and try to gtfo like when eleonore nuked the hosptial (i think)
- 1,809
- 271
Eh the sealing is basically instant the moment he closes his eyes and is finally dead the Meidou opens up behind Ren and immediately sucks him in. In case of Kagome it was over 2 or three panels and she had the same facial expression, so it was actually one single moment. Also it was not something which "approaches" or has a trajectory or movement (like an explosion for example which originates from ground zero and then travels in all directions) but simply was summoned instantly and sealed instantly.
- 12,659
- 2,434
is there nothing to actually prevent the seal from happening?
- 1,809
- 271
Being immune to dimensional BFR or being a dimensional hopper automatically come to mind for sure.
- 12,659
- 2,434
tbh now it depends on one thing. This can go either incon or in ren's favor depending on how we treat the decapitation curse. Tbh its from marie who is a divine being (cuz gudou later hadou gewdess) so it can take out his will. However that's if so it can swing to those two options from what i see.
- 1,809
- 271
Oh now I understand why this is so thouroughly debated. No, his Holy Power would not prevent the wish and the in-depth sealing. Holy attacks just render everything else from him useless. Like in the Manga, he gets attacked with a final purifying arrow , gets completely purified, unable to regenerate or do anything else , and while dying his wish of eternal sealing , gets in effect still
Holy things will effectively prevent Naraku from fighting (given they are powerful enough, but 136 MT like you showed is more than enough) but they will not negate the wish on the jewel
Holy things will effectively prevent Naraku from fighting (given they are powerful enough, but 136 MT like you showed is more than enough) but they will not negate the wish on the jewel
- 12,659
- 2,434
what if someone destroys the jewel itself and kills naraku entirely straight after?
- 1,809
- 271
The jewel was already destroyed twice - once when Kikyou burnt it with her in fire and once when Kagome shattered it.
In both cases the Dimensional Sealing was still intact.
It only got negated when it got erased of existance.
In both cases the Dimensional Sealing was still intact.
It only got negated when it got erased of existance.
- 8,809
- 2,868
- Thread starter
- #103
So Naraku dies and Ren gets BFR?
An incon match then?
An incon match then?
- 12,659
- 2,434
hmmm alright i'll go with incon FRA unless i'm missing something about ren then naraku dies for good but ren gets BFR'ed
- 1,809
- 271
Has 5a ren dimensional bfr/sealing immunity? Because regardless if tier 7 or 5, Naraku Dies either way
Would just be interesting to know if he could still pull an incon against 5a ren for the same in-death trigger
Would just be interesting to know if he could still pull an incon against 5a ren for the same in-death trigger
- 12,659
- 2,434
i mean no afaik...but..well ren has time slow tbf so there is something??? Idek
- 1,809
- 271
The time slow is for everything in his line of sight right? Not sure how it would affect the bfr effect. Also when the bfr spawns behind him and not in front where is eyes are
It's nothing I want to discuss really long tho this thread has been really entertaining but I think now it's wrapped uwas just something which catches my attention.
It's nothing I want to discuss really long tho this thread has been really entertaining but I think now it's wrapped uwas just something which catches my attention.
- 12,659
- 2,434
welp that was a good debate. though it should be noted ren's speed is a lot faster in EFF than EFO so he could turn around if he feels something is wrong but again eh
- 1,809
- 271
So after everything is said and done I take it we basically sit with 3 inconclusive votes? What about the ones before the actual debate took place? How are things handled in such a situation?
- 12,659
- 2,434
we were just trying to sort things out really and generally clarrifying ren's curse and how he acts. Then also about naraku himself And CIS issues lolz
- 1,809
- 271
Alright so now we just wait for other interested people to give their input:
So post-debate we sit with:
Naraku: 0
Ren: 0
Inconclusive: 3
Is that right? I have neglected the votes for Ren and Naraku previous to the debate.
So post-debate we sit with:
Naraku: 0
Ren: 0
Inconclusive: 3
Is that right? I have neglected the votes for Ren and Naraku previous to the debate.
- 12,659
- 2,434
well their weren't any and if there is a change it can swing but let's wait for the votes or if someone wants to add shit
- 39,691
- 15,627
Incon FRA then.
- 8,427
- 3,144
Inconclusive FRA.
- 8,809
- 2,868
- Thread starter
- #116
Naraku: 0
Ren: 0
Inconclusive: 5 (Raven, Red, Velox, Dat, Warren)
If I missed someone pls tell me.
Ren: 0
Inconclusive: 5 (Raven, Red, Velox, Dat, Warren)
If I missed someone pls tell me.
- 8,809
- 2,868
- Thread starter
- #117
Bump just so I can end this.
- 6,698
- 2,496
Inconclusive FRA
- 31,653
- 34,717
Inconclusive FRA I guess.
- 1,809
- 271
Oh wow so this is finally concluded. Not bad I guess
Similar threads
- Locked
