Zarathustra vs literally Hell

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well the thing is that i'm not sure if that ressurection can truly work considering that the curse ren pulls out from the decapitation is recreating a 1-A curse ( Marie's embrace) which negs immortality and regen tbf. The glance can work though he needs to pull it off as quickly cuz ren wastes no time to actively get faster to make him opponent in his perspective look like a statue.

Edit: Forgot to mention said curse can neg 1-A/higher dimensional immortality and ressurection for Reinhard Heydrich

 

[Schnee_One]

Are we SURE this isn't a stomp for Ren?

Like, unless Naruka can use something immediately to defeat Ren, Ren blitzes him and gives him a 1A curse?

I don't see how this is fair

 

[RavenSupreme]

well the thing is that i'm not sure if that ressurection can truly work considering that the curse ren pulls out from the decapitation is recreating a 1-A curse ( Marie's embrace) which negs immortality and regen tbf. The glance can work though he needs to pull it off as quickly cuz ren wastes no time to actively get faster to make him opponent in his perspective look like a statue.
Edit: Forgot to mention said curse can neg 1-A/higher dimensional immortality and ressurection for Reinhard Heydrich

If he spams 1A curses while being in Base, obviously Naraku would not ressurect. Thats for sure.

But the thing is that Naraku, in the moment of death, would still wish for the eternal sealing inside the Jewel.

So yeha - he might be dead and not re-awake, but Ren would still be trapped. These two things are not one single chain of event. They are separated.

So Naraku dead for good and Ren trapped in a dimension is a win..?...draw?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I mean can he get out of range if he notices something is wrong?

 

[RavenSupreme]

I think that would be unlikely, seeing how the seal happens quasi while Naraku is dying and is directly at the location of the enemy (who killed him)

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

wait so it would seal ren via a meidou? I mean it seemed to be right behind him so he can try to get out as he would try to use his briah to run? Hmmmm

 

[RavenSupreme]

Meidous dont seal someone in the Jewel. They BFR people to hell (literaly). It was just his method of sealing since he previously cut her with a stolen Meidou

With Ren there is no Byakuya who can steal Rens abilites in a twisted last-will sealing, as suchthe Jewel sealing works with just the wish.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

yeah though it like dragging a person to hell because its so close. WHat i meant was ren maybe able to speed up before he gets sucked by it.

I don't get the second part exactly sorry

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Raven, you have my gratitude for not letting this one die.

Also bump.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

bump

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

bump

 

[RavenSupreme]

One question which is always important and should not be forgot: Has Ren Fujy access to Holy or Divine attacks?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

he doesn't have any of these attacks but i guess his 1-A curse can be considered as such?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If "Holy" is used in its dictionary definition, then considering the curse comes from miss Gudou (later hadou) god Marie, yes.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Because Naraku at EOS literally represents the will of the evil side of the Shikon Jewel he gets scaled to all the stuff the Shikon Jewel amounts to. However the "evil" side is only half of the Jewel. Its a balance within. If Naraku gets struck by Holy or Divine attacks this balance is tipped to the "good" side, meaning Naraku will be purged - including his Regenerationn and abilities. But since this is such a weakness I dont think something is enough which "can be constructed to" be. It should be a clear and cut divine or holy attack.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i mean...based on that definition due to the curse coming from a divine 1-A being it could be considered as such and addition with curse can probs purge him?

 

[RavenSupreme]

Well mere godhood doesnt mean its holy automatically. And also not that every attack inherently carries holy attributes. Has there been a confirmation that the curse for example IS an actual holy (as in the good thing) move?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

technically its called a holy relic so OVO

honestly i have no clue on that. tbh the curse itself can't be stopped if naraku gets hit tbf

 

[RavenSupreme]

The thing is, with actual holy attacks most of the stuff he can do is rendered actually useless. Remember the "Power sealing on eye contact?" or "Regenerationn" or anything else we discussed? Its simply no longer an option then and the only thing which he still can do after being purged is the eternal sealing in the timeless Shikon Dimension - while dying.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i mean if the fight can be prolonged ren likely can try to blitz and make naraku be unable to see him. Also i do remember the sealing part but wouldn't naraku still die because of the potency of the curse ending him?

 

[RavenSupreme]

He would die but the sealing in the Jewel happens before him resurrecting. The sealing is not bound to his revival and vice versa. Only his revival would not work.

Has Ren Fuji defense against Petrification/ Reality Warping by the way?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

petrification no though LDO briahs are reality warping in some ways as they make desires happen in blah blah form though what kind of reality wapring naraku does?

 

[RavenSupreme]

Well he turned part of a Rocky Mountain to a living biological being and his insides into acid with a mere thought

As such him turning a living biological being into rock with a mere thought is equally easy for him

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

tbf ren has dealt with cain's rotting poison which is pretty much something painful and could pull through. Also does he need to see and know the person and does he do it IC?

 

[RavenSupreme]

He need to know what to target for reality warping from what I remember. Don't pinpoint me on that tho

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

oh well again the speeding part can work. Though he has many things that can go for him its just which one. Though as far as i can tell ren due to SBA can get in close when he activates and accelerates with soul sensing can cut the neck though the sealing is the thing upon death which while i speculate he can get out of range i'm a bit skeptic on the last part atm

 

[RavenSupreme]

Hold on - I think I have found something which may be interesting and countering Rens decapacitation + 1A seal combo, can you answer me this: How does the Curse works? Is it after Ren Fuji has sucessfully decapacitate someone it comes into effect? And what are the rules that it comes into effect? For example: Have the decapacitated people all had some form of "brain" which was separated from the body?

Because Naraku in general, doe not have a brain or any other biology people have. His head is by no means important for any form of Regenerationn to work. His entire body is just an amalgation of miasma

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

he just has to decapitate them that's it sever the head from neck end of story. Otherwise no specific rule

 

[Schnee_One]

Simply

If Ren does a decapitation move, it gives you the curse.

 

[ALRF]

They don't need a "brain" or something. Physical biology is unimportant to the curse.

And he doesn't have "decapitate them" so to speak. The moment his Holy Relic touches the neck, it will result in the curse taking effect

 

[Schnee_One]

And he doesn't have "decapitate them" so to speak. The moment his Holy Relic touches the neck, it will result in the curse taking effect

Didn't Reinhard shrug off the curse because Ren couldn't chop his head.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i think that was due to spiritual power difference (ren was so weak he wasn't even past yetzirah iirc) but i could be wrong

 

[RavenSupreme]

But how will it work when someone simply has the form of a humanoid being, with his outer appearance having a head and heck having no meaning whatsoever to his true form. He is not separating the head or the neck in that case. He is simply chopping up the outer body parts.

For example, of one Narakus earliest moves is spawning little puppets who follow similar rules, they just appear humanoid and when they have been decapacitated it turns out they have just been random flesh lumped together and controlled by 1 single strand of his hair

-

Basically: Naraku has no "neck" or "brain" or "nerves" or whatever is the actually rule for the decapacitation to work since he is not following humanoid rules.

Edit: What MT does Ren Fuji gets scaled to? Depending on that, Narakus Barrier would prevent being touched in a 360 degree in the first place.

 

[Schnee_One]

Having no meaning whatsoever describes literally every LDO member

 

[ALRF]

@Raven

Same for Gods in Shinza. Still gets cursed

 

[RavenSupreme]

Here is an example of what I mean. Naraku spawns a random clone of himself.

That clone gets decapacitated

After being decapacitated a second clone spawns out of the first one

-

Mind you, this all takes place inside Narakus body to begin with.

So according to your logic Ren Fuji decapacitating this random clone who happens to be in the form of Naraku would cause the actual Naraku to randomly fall victim to the 1A curse?

 

[ALRF]

That isn't what we were saying though. We were talking about how physiology doesn't matter

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I think what Raven is saying is that the clone was still a part of Naraku's body, but Naraku himself was completely unaffected by the clone being decapitated, so if Ren necksliced the clone, would Naraku himself also die?

On one hand, it's part of Naraku's body and has a neck to be sliced.

On the other hand, it's really just a new form of the miasma forming Naraku and in normal circumstances he couldn't care less if that clone's neck was sliced

 

[RavenSupreme]

But when you dont have something to decapacitate, how will the curse take effect? Naraku also very often likes to randomly spawn a head of himself in random parts of his body. Separating that is similar to decapacitatin the clones - it is not related to the actual Naraku, who is just a will inside the Shikon jewel. The physical body is nothing but a Vessel for the Will and Soul to control and recreate at will. Whether the head appears on top of something which resembles a neck or whether the head appears at the end of a piece of flesh is the same thing. Its in both times not a head or a neck. Just formed flesh for outer appearance.

 

[RavenSupreme]

I think what Raven is saying is that the clone was still a part of Naraku's body, but Naraku himself was completely unaffected by the clone being decapitated, so if Ren necksliced the clone, would Naraku himself also die?
On one hand, it's part of Naraku's body and has a neck to be sliced.

On the other hand, it's really just a new form of the miasma forming Naraku and in normal circumstances he couldn't care less if that clone's neck was sliced

Yeha basically, and at EOS his entire physical body is nothing more than just that - a random part of his flesh, with the real "will" of Naraku being already merged inside the jewel. See my post from 1 minute ago.