Zamasu vs Moro (GRACE)

[Vizer04]

Zamasu VS Moro

• Fight Location: New York (USA)
• Starting Distance: 10m
• Both in-character
• Original Power Moro

AP Section
Zamasu: At least Multi-Galaxy level
Moro: At least Multi-Galaxy level

Votes
Zamasu:
Moro:
Inconclusive: 7 (@LeSupremeKing1, @Gilad_Hyperstar, @Nierre, @Vizer04, @Peppersalt43, @CiscoTheSoto and @AdNiBN002)

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Moro, has far higher ap, and has vegeta's spirit fission, so we can basically say goodbye to "fusion zamasu". And he would be able to figure out they are a fused entity due to his mind reading.
On top of that I don't see what Zamasu would have against his absorption abilities and negging his soul either, sp yeah i'd say the battle is 100% in moro's favor

 

[Vizer04]

Would it be better if i used Original Power Moro instead?

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Would it be better if i used Original Power Moro instead?

yeah that'd be better

 

[Vizer04]

Alright, i changed the battle

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

With original power moro, this fights slightly different imo. Sure moro massively outscales, but I don't know if he has a wincon. Sure he can absorb Zamasu's energy, hell, even absorb his soul, but he comes back from all of that. Can't die.

So I think Zamasu would overwhelm with passive duplication, and can maybe BFR? I mean thats out of character, and I doubt he would be able to do it quickly due to the speed gap, but if he can pull it off if he outgrows Moro over time I guess.

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Thebestsilver]

watching, I want to see what this holds, it sounds interesting.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Moro can one shot this version of Zamasu many times over, but Zamasu's immortality would mean that Moro wouldn't be able to put down Zamasu.

However, I'm not sure that Moro can defuse Fused Zamasu even with the spirit fission. His immortality prevented Goku Black and Fused Zamasu from naturally defusing after the one hour time limit of the potaras ran out, and when Trunks forcibly split them, Fused Zamasu mutated into Infinite Zamasu, with Goku Black and Future Zamasu both transforming into copies of the original Fused Zamasu

If Moro would try to do the same, all he'd accomplish is just re-creating Infinite Zamasu, since his immortality will just cause the two fusees to transform back into Fused Zamasu and multiply from there

The only way I see Moro successfully defeating Zamasu is that if he'd eat him, but Zamasu will keep getting zenkais to eventually catch up to Moro and overwhelm him

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Moro will keep stacking zamasu's power on himself everytime he absorbs him, so zamasu will never catch up. I'm not sure, I think this is just an inconclusive.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Moro doesn't have Infinite stamina doesn't he? So Zamasu could outlast him in that regard

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Moro can absorb ki which replenishes his stamina, so he won't get tired.

 

[Kin201]

Moro can one shot this version of Zamasu many times over, but Zamasu's immortality would mean that Moro wouldn't be able to put down Zamasu.

However, I'm not sure that Moro can defuse Fused Zamasu even with the spirit fission.

I think this Moro doesn't even have Forced Spirit Fission.

 

[LaserPrecision]

However, I'm not sure that Moro can defuse Fused Zamasu even with the spirit fission. His immortality prevented Goku Black and Fused Zamasu from naturally defusing after the one hour time limit of the potaras ran out, and when Trunks forcibly split them, Fused Zamasu mutated into Infinite Zamasu, with Goku Black and Future Zamasu both transforming into copies of the original Fused Zamasu

I'm pretty sure the reason they weren't defusing was that they were the same person (Goku Black just being the body of Goku possessed by Zamas) causing them to merge on the cellular level IIRChttps://cdn.************/file/mangap/1069/10025000/34.jpg
"Both Zamases are rejecting the split. Though we call it a fusion, they're both Zamas. Over the past hour, they may have joined on a cellular level."

Think Trunks cut was just a catalyst for the splitting, rather than causing the permanent fusion

Either way, if Vegeta can undo Piccolo's fusion with Kami (and or Nail), I don't see why he couldn't defuse Fusion Zamas had he been given the option. Obviously, he's been restricted to a previous form though, so that's no longer an option.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure the reason they weren't defusing was that they were the same person (Goku Black just being the body of Goku possessed by Zamas) causing them to merge on the cellular level IIRChttps://cdn.************/file/mangap/1069/10025000/34.jpg
"Both Zamases are rejecting the split. Though we call it a fusion, they're both Zamas. Over the past hour, they may have joined on a cellular level."

Think Trunks cut was just a catalyst for the splitting, rather than causing the permanent fusion

I didn't say it wouldn't happen, it's just that Moro splitting Merged Zamasu will cause him to mutate into Infinite Zamasu, much like how Trunks' cut is what caused Infinite Zamasu to happen

Either way, if Vegeta can undo Piccolo's fusion with Kami (and or Nail), I don't see why he couldn't defuse Fusion Zamas had he been given the option. Obviously, he's been restricted to a previous form though, so that's no longer an option.

Kibito Kai needed to use the Dragon Balls to defuse back into Shin and Kibito. If the Yardratians could defuse them already with no help from the Dragon Balls, they would already teleport to Yardrat and have Pibara defuse them there

 

[LaserPrecision]

I didn't say it wouldn't happen, it's just that Moro splitting Merged Zamasu will cause him to mutate into Infinite Zamasu, much like how Trunks' cut is what caused Infinite Zamasu to happen

Splitting someone in half like Trunks isn't at all comparable to a technique explicitly used to undo Fusion. He tried to undo their denial of fusion due to already having fused on a cellular level, and that didn't work. Based on what we saw, he likely would've become Infinite Zamas regardless.

Kibito Kai needed to use the Dragon Balls to defuse back into Shin and Kibito. If the Yardratians could defuse them already with no help from the Dragon Balls, they would already teleport to Yardrat and have Pibara defuse them there

Simple solution; At the time, they hadn't even thought up of Spirit Fission, and thus there was no reason at the time to go to them as the idea hadn't even been conceived yet. Wasn't Piccolo's assimilations also permanent? It's been a while since I've read DBZ, but if Vegeta can undo Piccolo's assimilation, there's no reason to assume it couldn't undo every other fusion.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Splitting someone in half like Trunks isn't at all comparable to a technique explicitly used to undo Fusion. He tried to undo their denial of fusion due to already having fused on a cellular level, and that didn't work. Based on what we saw, he likely would've become Infinite Zamas regardless.

The outcome wouldn't change. Even if Moro would split them, they'll just turn back into Infinite Zamasu as they're merged at the cellular level, and their immortality causes them to mutate as it prevents the two from defusing

Simple solution; At the time, they hadn't even thought up of Spirit Fission, and thus there was no reason at the time to go to them as the idea hadn't even been conceived yet. Wasn't Piccolo's assimilations also permanent? It's been a while since I've read DBZ, but if Vegeta can undo Piccolo's assimilation, there's no reason to assume it couldn't undo every other fusion.

Retcons are a thing you know.

 

[LaserPrecision]

The outcome wouldn't change. Even if Moro would split them, they'll just turn back into Infinite Zamasu as they're merged at the cellular level, and their immortality causes them to mutate as it prevents the two from defusing

Was it ever noted that the Immortality caused them to mutate and is what prevented it? I don't recall that ever being stated. From what was shown, it was because they were the same person. Is it an assumption on your part, or was it stated? With that in mind, isn't it similar to Piccolo's assimilation with Kami? Where they became 'whole' (as we know Kami and Piccolo were at some point one being) and were stuck that way (Again, can't remember if this is true as I haven't read Z in a while, but I remember Piccolo initially being REALLY against it, so I assume it was permanent)? Very similar to Infinite Zamas, and with that information I think it could be deduced that Spirit Fission could undo Infinite Zamas since he could undo Piccolo's assimilation with Kami.

Retcons are a thing you know.

Yes, but where's the retcon here? The Yardratian's having abilities that weren't established before? How is this a counter? A retcon is new information that contradicts old information. What old information is being contradicted in this case? There are also several other interpretations that can be drawn regarding the Kai's fusion. Such as Kibito Kai not being aware that the Yardratian's possessed such a technique.

 

[God900]

Moro could absorb his Soul to neg his inmortality tho.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

He comes back from soul destruction.

 

[God900]

He comes back from soul destruction.

But he is not destroying his Soul in that way, he is just absorbing it.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

But he is not destroying his Soul in that way, he is just absorbing it.

Yeah which does nothing, if his soul gets negged, it comes back. Even if it’s not “destruction” he would still recover it, similar to the way if someone were to, let’s say absorb/take out his arm, it would regrow.

This battle would just be inconclusive unless zamasu has a wincon.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I believe this is inconclusive. Moro has no way of properly killing Fusion Zamasu due to his very advanced immortality which only Zeno was able to overcome. Even if Moro is massively stronger than Fusion Zamasu, Fusion Zamasu could just increase his strength through his Saiyan Power, but if he does that then Moro could just absorb his energy and the energy from the planet he's on. It just seems like a never-ending cycle. Moro also doesn't have any sealing power so he couldn't trap Fusion Zamasu, which was one of the only ways that Future Zamasu was nearly defeated in the manga and anime.

 

[Vizer04]

Yeah which does nothing, if his soul gets negged, it comes back. Even if it’s not “destruction” he would still recover it, similar to the way if someone were to, let’s say absorb/take out his arm, it would regrow.

I don't think that's how it works. He can't regenerate a new soul if it's taken from his body, he can regenerate only his body. He can't do that if his soul gets absorbed, not destroyed.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure Moro wouldn't think to swallow Zamasu immediately. He'll probably first blast him to pieces, which will then regenerate each into a new copy of the original Zamasu, and by that point absorption wouldn't be that effective.

At most I could see it as incon if no one can put the other down

 

[Vizer04]

So, the two possible scenarios are:

1. Moro manages to absorb Zamasu's soul, preventing his regeneration and therefore, winning.

2. Zamasu gets blown to pieces and then becomes thousands of Zamasus against one Moro, overpowering him and therefore, winning.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Why would Zamas splitting into thousand make his absorption less effective when he's shown the ability to absorb a planet's worth of life all at once?

 

[Vizer04]

That's a good point, i guess i'm leaning towards Moro in this one but i'm not gonna vote yet.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

I don't think that's how it works. He can't regenerate a new soul if it's taken from his body, he can regenerate only his body. He can't do that if his soul gets absorbed, not destroyed.

yeah he has mid godly, he literally does if his soul is removed, and its not implied he no longer regens when his soul is gone.

 

[Vizer04]

He can regenerate his body from his soul, not the other way around (and even less if his soul is absorbed and not destroyed).

He can't create a new body if he's inside Moro's body.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why would Zamas splitting into thousand make his absorption less effective when he's shown the ability to absorb a planet's worth of life all at once?

Because Zamasu regenerates from that? He literally can't die so life force absorption wouldn't work. The only thing it may do is drain his ki, but even then, the immortality makes Zamasu's ki replenish itself

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He can regenerate his body from his soul, not the other way around (and even less if his soul is absorbed and not destroyed).

He can't create a new body if he's inside Moro's body.

You realize that with each time Zamasu splits he makes a new body and soul right? Zamasu's regeneration and immortality caused each piece of him to transform into a new copy of Merged Zamasu, like how when Trunks splitted Goku Black and Zamasu apart, both transformed into Merged Zamases and when Goku and Vegeta tried to blast them to pieces, this only led for more of them to be created

 

[Vizer04]

I guess Zamasu is more likely to win then

 

[LaserPrecision]

Because Zamasu regenerates from that? He literally can't die so life force absorption wouldn't work. The only thing it may do is drain his ki, but even then, the immortality makes Zamasu's ki replenish itself

You misunderstood what I was saying. I thought you were implying his absorption would become less efficient simply because they multiplied. As if he had an area of effect issue or something.
I never stated or implied Zamas couldn't regenerate from that.

Although, you'd have to argue that he can regen from his soul being snatched. I agree he can regen from his soul being destroyed as evidenced by Beerus' statement that Hakai can't destroy Immortals despite him in the next arc stating he'd destroy Freeza's soul yet knew it wouldn't work on an immortal. But that's not the same as having your soul snatched from your body. He's regenerated from his body being destroyed, can regen from his soul being erased, but never showed anything to counter the soul being absorbed/taken away.

Couldn't Moro also just win via incapacitating Zamas? He can just immobilize him with Chi until he wins via SBA (being unable to fight for a day). Less likely, but he can also potentially knock him unconscious for an hour since he clearly can't kill Zamas.

 

[Vizer04]

Zamasu created new souls from tiny pieces of his body, i guess that makes Moro's Absorption useless.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Although, you'd have to argue that he can regen from his soul being snatched. I agree he can regen from his soul being destroyed as evidenced by Beerus' statement that Hakai can't destroy Immortals despite him in the next arc stating he'd destroy Freeza's soul yet knew it wouldn't work on an immortal. But that's not the same as having your soul snatched from your body.

Moro can't snatch people's souls from their bodies. All he does is absorb their ki, which is their lofe force. If they die against Moro, their soul goes to the afterlife as usual

He's regenerated from his body being destroyed, can regen from his soul being erased, but never showed anything to counter the soul being absorbed/taken away.

The only way for Moro to do that is by swallowing Zamasu whole. As I said, Moro can't snatch souls from people's bodies

 

[LaserPrecision]

Moro can't snatch people's souls from their bodies. All he does is absorb their ki, which is their lofe force. If they die against Moro, their soul goes to the afterlife as usual

I thought the energy Moro absorbed was explicitly different from just absorbing someone's Chi based on Goku's statement that his power felt different. If not, that's fair.

The only way for Moro to do that is by swallowing Zamasu whole. As I said, Moro can't snatch souls from people's bodies

Then why not swallow Zamas whole? Quite easy to do, especially when starting off with a huge scaling advantage as well as the ability to immobilize foes.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then why not swallow Zamas whole? Quite easy to do, especially when starting off with a huge scaling advantage as well as the ability to immobilize foes.

That would be incredibly inefficent to do, not to mention we never saw Moro using his TK to immobilize so many people at once, so there would always be more Zamasus to counter Moro, either by distracting him, or doing all sort of other things to him