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Zamasu regen upgrade proposal.

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ChoursDropoff

ChoursDropoff

733
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Hello this crt goal is quite straightforward I wanna upgrade Zamasu regeneration. And I think he qualifies for “high godly; history”.

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera.

It’s already been accepted in previous that Beerus hakai technique doesn’t work on Zamasu in both the Anime and Manga. Hence the Mid Godly rating on Zamasu profile, but it’s been shown that hakai can affect you on a temporal level.

Quick recap of the arc
Zamasu steals Goku’s body travels to Trunks timeline and recks havoc there. Trunks comes back to the past, to ask for assistance and Goku and Vegeta go the future. They fight loose come back the present find out the connection between Zamasu and Black and then Beerus erases him.

That last part of the synopsis is what I really want to focus in on. Because when Beerus goes back in time to erase Zamasu it should’ve affected the one in Goku blacks body. But as we all know he had a time ring thus his place in history was anchored and unchangable.

The important part is that we care about is that it’s blatantly shown and stated that gods can affect history without making alternate parallel worlds. Beerus even gets questioned by Trunks in regards to Zamasu and if he got erased, to which he confirmed that he erased every version of him (excluding the ones with time rings)



This shows that when a GoD erases someone they can make sure that there is no version of them in the timelines existence.

Some possible counter arguments.

It’s only time travel:

This one is the easiest to dismiss. It’s been shown that in dragon ball time travel doesn’t work on the principle of the past will affect the future. This is explained by many people like Jaco for example.



And Future Trunks.



So even if he went back in time and killed zamasu the traditional way. It would just result in the birth of a new timeline. Instead of deleting Black from the current one.

How did Zeno Erase Zamasu then?

Zeno’s erasure has been shown and established to be far beyond anything in the DB verse. As he’s the only one who scales above the super dragon balls that gave Zamasu his immortality.


Who would this affect?

Manga Zamasu: regen upgrade

Anime Zamasu: regen upgrade

Beerus: & GoD EE upgrade

Zeno: would get high godly regen; history
negation.
Possibly

Grand priest: his EE should be stronger than Hakai but weaker than Zeno’s

Fusion Zamasu: kinda iffy with the whole not fully immortal thing but he still should scale as she states he’s still immortal. So possibly high godly

Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307 @Killerdrone123@Ednaxel2 @TheGreatBanana @Cass5373

Disagree:mad:Da3ggman, Dark_Soul20189 ,Zeinx1 @Spectra_Schiffer

Damage3245(no reason given)​

Maverick_Zero_X(agreed with omega)​


Nuetral:
 
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I don't see how this would be a Regeneration feat. It looks more like a Resistance to Time Manipulation of sorts.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Future Trunks and Mai go back in time.
Click to expand...
Correct me if i am wrong How can this be a counter when the op is arguing that zamasu is the one being erased from every timeline remember you were the one who told me in the thread how can they return to the point where zamasu doesn't exist well this could be the answer to your question that every version of zamasu except those two got erased
 
ChoursDropoff said:
Quick recap of the arc
Zamasu steals Goku’s body travels to Trunks timeline and recks havoc there. Trunks comes back to the past, to ask for assistance and Goku and Vegeta go the future. They fight loose come back the present find out the connection between Zamasu and Black and then Beerus erases him.

That last part of the synopsis is what I really want to focus in on. Because when Beerus goes back in time to erase Zamasu it should’ve affected the one in Goku blacks body. But as we all know he had a time ring thus his place in history was anchored and unchangable.

The important part is that we care about is that it’s blatantly shown and stated that gods can affect history without making alternate parallel worlds. Beerus even gets questioned by Trunks in regards to Zamasu and if he got erased, to which he confirmed that he erased every version of him (excluding the ones with time rings)

Click to expand...

Thay is not what is said at all, Beerus said that contrary to mortals, when a God kills another God, history doesn't split into another timeline, but i changes, the Erasure Beerus did wouldn't affect any Zamasu that isn't the future version of the Zamasu he killed, in this case Goku black himself, not every version in the multiverse

Which is quite litterally that wasn't what happened since another timeline where Zamasu still existed was very much still there, which should have been nuked given what you said, but it wasn't, so what you said couldn't be what happened

0:20
Also that zamssu still existed when mai and trunks go back before their world is erased, soooo no, the story quite literally says that not every versiom of zamasu across all timelines was erased

Even then, this wouldn't be history erasure, it would be EE aoe that covers all versions in the multiverse, so it wouldn' upgrade either the hakai nor zamasu's regen at all
ChoursDropoff said:
This shows that when a GoD erases someone they can make sure that there is no version of them in the timelines existence.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't,
1 it is only said this effect happens when a God kills another, not when hakai is used specifically, it wouldn't do that if the target is not a god for example
2 Beerus answers trunks concerns about when he tried to change the past and it didn't changed his future, which Beerus with saying that this was mortal logic and that gods killing another god has an effect in space time, aka he is saying by the context that him killing the past version of black will affect him contrary to what trunks past time travel stuff did

ChoursDropoff said:
Some possible counter arguments.

It’s only time travel:

This one is the easiest to dismiss. It’s been shown that in dragon ball time travel doesn’t work on the principle of the past will affect the future. This is explained by many people like Jaco for example.



And Future Trunks.



So even if he went back in time and killed zamasu the traditional way. It would just result in the birth of a new timeline. Instead of deleting Black from the current one.
Click to expand...

This is true for mortals, but beerus says otherwise for gods killing other gods, it is even questioned by trunks and that is what he answers, gods simply ignore that rule and actually change the future

ChoursDropoff said:
Fusion Zamasu: kinda iffy with the whole not fully immortal thing but he still should scale as she states he’s still immortal. So possibly high godly
Click to expand...
Nope, lost the mid godly for this reason, wouldn't scale to high godly for this reason as well
 
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omegabronic said:
Thay is not what is said at all, Beerus said that contrary to mortals, when a God kills another God, history doesn't split into another timeline, but i changes, the Erasure Beerus did wouldn't affect any Zamasu that isn't the future version of the Zamasu he killed, in this case Goku black himself, not every version in the multiverse

Which is quite litterally that wasn't what happened since another timeline where Zamasu still existed was very much still there, which should have been nuked given what you said, but it wasn't, so what you said couldn't be what happened

0:20
Also that zamssu still existed when mai and trunks go back before their world is erased, soooo no, the story quite literally says that not every versiom of zamasu across all timelines was erased

Even then, this wouldn't be history erasure, it would be EE aoe that covers all versions in the multiverse, so it wouldn' upgrade either the hakai nor zamasu's regen at all

No it doesn't,
1 it is only said this effect happens when a God kills another, not when hakai is used specifically, it wouldn't do that if the target is not a god for example
2 Beerus answers trunks concerns about when he tried to change the past and it didn't changed his future, which Beerus with saying that this was mortal logic and that gods killing another god has an effect in space time, aka he is saying by the context that him killing the past version of black will affect him contrary to what trunks past time travel stuff did


This is true for mortals, but beerus says otherwise for gods killing other gods, it is even questioned by trunks and that is what he answers, gods simply ignore that rule and actually change the future


Nope, lost the mid godly for this reason, wouldn't scale to high godly for this reason as well
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the timeline which zamasu exist would be created because of him using hakai on him meaning the timeline wasn't present when beerus Hakai'd zamasu it would have been created after beerus erased him
 
Killerdrone123 said:
Wouldn't the timeline which zamasu exist would be created because of him using hakai on him meaning the timeline wasn't present when beerus Hakai'd zamasu it would have been created after beerus erased him
Click to expand...
That doesn't make any sense. The timeline where future Zamasu existed had to exist before Beerus used Hakai on present Zamasu... because future Zamasu already existed.
 
Killerdrone123 said:
Wouldn't the timeline which zamasu exist would be created because of him using hakai on him meaning the timeline wasn't present when beerus Hakai'd zamasu it would have been created after beerus erased him
Click to expand...
No, the OP is suggesting History eraure to Hakai, so the "when" the timeline is created is irrelevant as it would take effect in any and every moment in History

Also since Black is in the future, the timeline has to had retroactively existed else he wouldn't be there
 
Also omega first point is literally contradicted by the scene he showed because omega said god killing god doesn't split timeline but here we can clearly see that whis is explaining that the split happened
 
omegabronic said:
No, the OP is suggesting History eraure to Hakai, so the "when" the timeline is created is irrelevant as it would take effect in any and every moment in History

Also since Black is in the future, the timeline has to had retroactively existed else he wouldn't be there
Click to expand...
But the history wasn't even existing it was made after beerus erased him
 
Killerdrone123 said:
Also omega first point is literally contradicted by the scene he showed because omega said god killing god doesn't split timeline but here we can clearly see that whis is explaining that the split happened
Click to expand...
Yeahb , because black had the time ring with him that protects him from changes in his own timeline, hence his acausality type 1 in his profile

Besides this doesn't change the point of what was actually said in the scene, never is it said that it nukes every version of the one erased across all timelines, you saying that what was said is supposedly contradicted doesn't help the point you are making, since the premise of the thread "hakai nukes your entire history across all timelines" is simply not wver said in any way in the scene at all
 
omegabronic said:
Yeahb , because black had the time ring with him that protects him from changes in his own timeline, hence his acausality type 1 in his profile

Besides this doesn't change the point of what was actually said in the scene, never is it said that it nukes every version of the one erased across all timelines, you saying that what was said is supposedly contradicted doesn't help the point you are making, since the premise of the thread "hakai nukes your entire history across all timelines" is simply not wver said in any way in the scene at all
Click to expand...
Huh? I am talking about the zamasu split created like whis said when beerus erased zamasu he added one more time ring where zamasu wasn't erased meaning the split happened it has nothing to do with goku black.
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't see how this would be a Regeneration feat. It looks more like a Resistance to Time Manipulation of sorts.
Click to expand...
The idea is that hakai is confirmed to erase you from space-time, which would entail history erasure as you're being wiped from existence to the point where it's like you never existed. The main counter is that this is just existence erasure with multiversal range, but that would only refute history erasure if Beerus' destruction worked in a manner that erased Zamasu at the respective presents of the other timelines. In this case however, Zamasu explicitly required acausality from the time ring to survive, which confirms that hakai literally engages in classical history erasure that removes the "cause" which is your existence.
 
Damage3245 said:
Being split doesn't mean it didn't exist before.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly how it happens in Dragon Ball, parallel worlds are similar to the same parallel world, but with a new story, which suggests new alternative worlds,this means that it didn't exist before, but they are made entirely of different history, different space-time flow (according to Trunks)




So in Dragon Ball, the future where the Androids run rampant and the one where they're defeated are actually completely separate universes?

Prof. Futamase: That's right. If you successfully travelled to the past then attempted to return back to the point in time you started from, the universe you arrive to would not be your original one, but a parallel world where you had travelled to the past. You'd essentially be in a new universe with a different history.
Click to expand...
 
Killerdrone123 said:
Huh? I am talking about the zamasu split created like whis said when beerus erased zamasu he added one more time ring where zamasu wasn't erased meaning the split happened it has nothing to do with goku black.
Click to expand...
.....black is zamasu dude, that is the big twist of the arc, the reason the timeline split was because Black's time ring protected him, thus the erasure of his past self didn't affected him, making the timeline split
 
omegabronic said:
Thay is not what is said at all, Beerus said that contrary to mortals, when a God kills another God, history doesn't split into another timeline, but i changes, the Erasure Beerus did wouldn't affect any Zamasu that isn't the future version of the Zamasu he killed, in this case Goku black himself, not every version in the multiverse

Which is quite litterally that wasn't what happened since another timeline where Zamasu still existed was very much still there, which should have been nuked given what you said, but it wasn't, so what you said couldn't be what happened

0:20
Click to expand...

I think you’re misunderstanding what Whis was saying there. Sorry it took a while but I had to grab the scans necessary. So I’ll try and explain to the best of my abilities. When Whis stated that beerus created a new time ring it was because what he did lead to black going back in time to kill Gawasu. And make Zamasu supreme Kai. It was a time loop



omegabronic said:
Also that zamssu still existed when mai and trunks go back before their world is erased, soooo no, the story quite literally says that not every versiom of zamasu across all timelines was erased
Click to expand...
Because he has a time ring thus making him accausal.
omegabronic said:
Even then, this wouldn't be history erasure, it would be EE aoe that covers all versions in the multiverse, so it wouldn' upgrade either the hakai nor zamasu's regen at all
Click to expand...
High godly history is just making sure your place in history is protected. But what beerus has demonstrated is that he can delete fron history it’s not just aoe. It’s literally Zamasu not losing his place in history.
omegabronic said:
No it doesn't,
1 it is only said this effect happens when a God kills another, not when hakai is used specifically, it wouldn't do that if the target is not a god for example
Click to expand...
It’s more like people on the level of a god not that he has selective temporal erasure.


omegabronic said:
2 Beerus answers trunks concerns about when he tried to change the past and it didn't changed his future, which Beerus with saying that this was mortal logic and that gods killing another god has an effect in space time, aka he is saying by the context that him killing the past version of black will affect him contrary to what trunks past time travel stuff did
Click to expand...
Yes exactly but as we all know black has a time ring so is unaffected by alternations to history. When beerus erased him he stopped black from being created in our current history. But that just lead to black going back to kill Gawasu himself. The manga makes this more clear by showing Zamasu timeline end there.
omegabronic said:
This is true for mortals, but beerus says otherwise for gods killing other gods, it is even questioned by trunks and that is what he answers, gods simply ignore that rule and actually change the future
Click to expand...
Exactly whe was speaking in context to Zamasu but hakai clearly doesn’t exclusively effect gods
omegabronic said:
Nope, lost the mid godly for this reason, wouldn't scale to high godly for this reason as well
Click to expand...
Hence why I said possibly high godly it’s the whole reason he has likely higher on his profile.
 
I agree, since it is taken that hakai fundamentally erases matter, soul, mind and one more existential aspect that is of space and time, and from what I see there is no tradition that Black and Zamazu from the future exist since they have the time rings that give them type 1 acausality.
 
omegabronic said:
.....black is zamasu dude, that is the big twist of the arc, the reason the timeline split was because Black's time ring protected him, thus the erasure of his past self didn't affected him, making the timeline split
Click to expand...
Yeah and you have to prove that it was because of time ring that the new timeline got created because if the case was literally god killing god doesn't make new worlds nothing should have happened
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
The idea is that hakai is confirmed to erase you from space-time, which would entail history erasure as you're being wiped from existence to the point where it's like you never existed. The main counter is that this is just existence erasure with multiversal range, but that would only refute history erasure if Beerus' destruction worked in a manner that erased Zamasu at the respective presents of the other timelines. In this case however, Zamasu explicitly required acausality from the time ring to survive, which confirms that hakai literally engages in classical history erasure that removes the "cause" which is your existence.
Click to expand...
None of what you show ever say that hakai does that, it specifies that it happens when a god kills another god

And even as i have explained, zamasu was black's past, so killing it would kill his future thus erasing black via cause and effect, normally the timeline would split, by as questioned by trunks and explained by beerus, that is ignored when a god kills another, which only didn't happen because the time ring protected black from his past getting changed

Acausality type 1 wouldn't matter to protect black as his present would also be destroyed by what you are saying, which wouldn't be enough for type 1 to protect against
 
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