Yukaris boundary manipultion

[DontTalk]

So in order to not discuss this (more or less) off topic on the vs thread I have created this one.

Aside from just generally discussing the ability, this thread should actively be used to agree on an explanation on what she can practically use it for in battle (and what she should not be assumed to use it for), so that it can be added to her page.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pretty sure she can uses it in battle, but the thing is that people go overboard with it, pretty much coming up with abilities.

So, there is a few thing that she has been able to do:

Manipulates the border between Matter and Anti-Matter

Movement and Stillness

Dream and Reality

Light and Darkness

Life and Death

2D and 3D

Form and Emptiness

Wave and Particle

She throws photons once

I think that's all, not much of it could be battle usable, boundary between dream and reality could be wanked so hard, but I think it could be used to BFR some peeps

We don't know the limits of Anti-Matter for Yukari, so not calcable

Life and Death for Soul Hax probably

2D and 3D could potentially turns someone 2D, which would be baaad.

EDIT: Motion and stilness would be dangerous for anything fast that doesn't blitzes her basically.

 

[DontTalk]

Truth and flasehood, fantasy and reality, day and night, human and youkai, (spring and winter) are also boundaries she can manipulate.

Truth and flasehood in particular should enable her to turn an object into a ilusion, just like she the other way around turned a reflection into the real thing. (well the reflection of the moon into the moon so that stepping in the reflection is the same as stepping unto the moon, so that one reaches it)

Human and youkai is also interesting, implying she could possibly change the species of beings basically depowering them.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If we even learnt that she can manipulates the boundary between 3D and 4D I think that will basically be the end of the world.

Well we at least know she can bypass durability with ease with all that jazz.

 

[DontTalk]

Just because of the source thing with PMiSS let me add a quote from Yukaris monologue in A beautiful flower blooming violet every sixty years: "I'm a youkai with the ability to control the boundaries between any and all things. This power allows me to remove the boundary between anything" Being a monologue she will neither exagerate nor lie, because she talks to no one not even the reader.

So her being able to remove the borders between at the very least most things is confirmed, so erasing the difference between athmosphere and the body of the enemy for example is an option as well.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Two questions.

Question 1: Can she manipulate the boundaries between someone's power to a much more useless power? (Ex: Break the boundary between, lets say, Reality Warping and Animal Empathy)

Question 2: ... Wait, did she really manipulated the boundary between 3D and 2D? If yes, when?

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Two questions.
Question 1: Can she manipulate the boundaries between someone's power to a much more useless power? (Ex: Break the boundary between, lets say, Reality Warping and Animal Empathy)

Question 2: ... Wait, did she really manipulated the boundary between 3D and 2D? If yes, when?

I don't recall her showing the ability to degrade someone's power, but it CAN be assumed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The thing about Yukari is that we can only assume most of the time.

One her spell card mentions "Boundary between 2D and 3D"

 

[Drac32Drac]

Well, we know for a fact that she can prolong the night for extended periods of time in PCB. Marisa fought her, thinking that it was night the whole time, when in actuality it turned to morning and was almost the following night! This was also hinted to be an illusory power and not physically prolonging the night like in IN.

 

[Yamatohime]

Sheesh, Yukari can't control border between reality and "unreality". Additionaly she can't fool Eiki with her ability to manipulate truth/lie.

 

[Drac32Drac]

There is no reason to suspect that she can't soul hack someone into a state of undeath or half-youkai. I find those interpretations quite reasonable assuming the target doesn't have a sufficient innate resistance to soul hax.

 

[DontTalk]

You mean the eiki that has an absolute ability to judge good and evil? not suprising.

What do you refer to with reality and "unreality"? Reimus ability? True enough, but only semi-relevant as far as I see.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Seems more like a lack of range to me about Reimu. Reimu just "floats" out of Yukari's ability range. I guess Yukari could do it on a smaller scale.

 

[Drac32Drac]

There's also the quirks of other characters to somehow nullify Yukari's powers to some extent, such as the Moriya shrine and to some extent the Lunar Capitol.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, Yukari's ability was useless vs Tenshi. She had to resort to old n good beating.

Phone is bad for typing. ^_^

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Dude, Spell Card rules.

 

[Yamatohime]

And how SCR stop her from using something on Tenshi? I do not buy such explanation. Yukari can't even deal with Sword of Hisou.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Because she couldn't just wish her out of reality because of the spell card rule. There is a reasons why Yukari's ability only manifests as more bullets in fight.

 

[Yamatohime]

It seems that you didn't understand. I said that Tenshi used energy attacks via SoH and Yukari couldn't redirect them.

 

[Drac32Drac]

@Saikou... Correct. We can make assumptions based upon things she's done outside of battle, though. That's why the SSiB feats and limitations are somewhat important. She couldn't just make a gap straight to the lunar capitol, for instance. She had to plan a complex trip involving multiple gaps to get there.

And the Moriya shrine example hints to some form of inherent interaction with those powers that prevent her abilities from working there either. Perhaps it's the influence of a powerful myriad god, divine spirit, and living god?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You didn't tho, you just said that "Yukari's ability was useless"

And when did that happened anyway?

 

[DontTalk]

@Saikou... Correct. We can make assumptions based upon things she's done outside of battle, though. That's why the SSiB feats and limitations are somewhat important. She couldn't just make a gap straight to the lunar capitol, for instance. She had to plan a complex trip involving multiple gaps to get there.
And the Moriya shrine example hints to some form of inherent interaction with those powers that prevent her abilities from working there either. Perhaps it's the influence of a powerful myriad god, divine spirit, and living god?

So we all know that Yukaris ability isn't omnipotence, which nobody claimed. That is also already mentioned on the profile. So what is the relevant conclusion you draw from that?

 

[Drac32Drac]

I'm trying to see if we can figure out why they didn't work in certain circumstances... Was it a power imbalance? Was it some kind of specific protection against Yukari? Was it just a powerful presence that nullified her ability?

 

[Yamatohime]

Probably her limitations is something close to belief. For example divinities are made of people wishes so her powers useless on them.

 

[DontTalk]

I'm trying to see if we can figure out why they didn't work in certain circumstances... Was it a power imbalance? Was it some kind of specific protection against Yukari? Was it just a powerful presence that nullified her ability?

Well, we most likely can't. If I would have to guess it's divine protection for the shrine and the moon doesn't even have to explain why stuff doesn't work, they just are more powerful....

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Or maybe that just shows how the Watatsukis are truly the maryes sues of Touhou? They can pull out a lot of bullshit goddesses out of their hands so it could be another deity or god in there. The Dragon is strictly inside Gensokyo right? So what if there's a similar being inside the moon?

Something like Chang'E?

And agreeing with what Saikou there

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Dragon can get in and out of Gensokyo at will, so he's not limited to Gensokyo, if that's what you mean.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yup, that's what I mean.

You think the lunarians may have some sort of way of controlling the Dragon or would that be on another level compared to them too? May have to reread the manga to refresh my mind there

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I don't think the Dragon cares enough for it to happen. He isn't only in Gensokyo, so maybe the "Lunarians > Gensokyo" thing doesn't apply to him.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, if we are at making arbitary speculations:

Remember how in Touhou a god starts existing as soon as someone begins to worship it? Maybe the lunarians just worshiped a god of boundarys for a bit, so that they could lend its powers later on? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Drac32Drac]

Aren't there more than one type of god? In particular, the celestial gods come to mind as being ones that the lunarians can call upon. Those ones existed before humanity. Although, it can be argued that some celestial gods actually live on the moon as well. Like everything in touhou, it's confusing.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Inb4 lunarians actually summon Future Yukari to stop Present yukari from... weird stuff

Welcome to Touhou, common sense is not required

You want to be a god? Meet the Minorikos. They'll tell you how to become one


In all seriousness there are various classifications of them so probably.

 

[Yamatohime]

I'm at home so some thoughts of mine:

Matter and Anti-Matter - the easiest to understand border for us, humans. So I doubt that somebody would argue about it. The only question is... How much?

Movement and Stillness - a little vague but it's easy to understand too. It doesn't completely stop movement but it just change boolean from 1 (moving) to 0 (still) and vise versa.

Dream/Illusion and Reality - it's one of those borders that many youkais remember: Moon Invasion.

Light and Darkness - the same as Movement and Stillness.

Life and Death - quite questionable because of Gensoukyou nature.

2D and 3D - it's still easy to understand but how it's usable in combat?

Form and Emptiness - too vague...

Wave and Particle - really easy for those who didn't skip science lessons.

As for limits when used on other beings. Out of all characters... Only three characters are confirmed humans: Reimu, Marisa and Sakuya. Others are youkais, ghosts and etc. Youkais exist because of faith in them. The same applied to gods and goddesses. Celestials (they achieve immortality through training) are natural enemies of youkais (that's why youkais prefer to avoid celestials since their mere presence could poison them). Yama and Houraians are outside circle of death/life.

Yukari's powers didn't work on Yama (otherwise Yukari could win in the debate) and probably ghosts. Yukari's powers do not work on Houraians (well, it's after all effect of elixir). Yukari's powers do not work on Gods (Kanako and Suwako for example) and Celestials (Tenshi). Yukari's power do not work on Reimu's Fantasy Nature and probably can't save her from Reimu's YYOrbs.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

2D and 3D can be used to force BFR on a 3D opponent. Due to the nature that lower dimensional beings have; They cannot normally affect higher dimensional beings. This is very much applicable in combat, saves Yukari the effort.

 

[Yamatohime]

2D and 3D can be used to force BFR on a 3D opponent. Due to the nature that lower dimensional beings have; They cannot normally affect higher dimensional beings. This is very much applicable in combat, saves Yukari the effort.

The main problem is that hardly usable againt youkais for example.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

2D and 3D can be used to force BFR on a 3D opponent. Due to the nature that lower dimensional beings have; They cannot normally affect higher dimensional beings. This is very much applicable in combat, saves Yukari the effort.

The main problem is that hardly usable againt youkais for example.

Maybe, maybe not. But it is most certainly useful to use against characters of other series, this kind of BFR is very potent. And it can be assumed she can isolate a block of space into another dimension, it's not too hard to use that on a foolish youkai.

Please do not diminish her abilities, you make them appear as if they're useless in combat. They really are not. You may not be intentionally doing this, but you're starting to give me a hint of this. If you're not meaning to, then I apologize whole-heartedly.

 

[Yamatohime]

I just dislike when somebody try to make assumptions based on vague information.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

I just dislike when somebody try to make assumptions based on vague information.

I'd understand this for characters that have much less vague abilties, like was said already, we can only really assume with Yukari. While yes, she cannot affect certain beings, it does not tell what she can and cannot manipulate. It's just stated she manipulates the borders of the Gensokyo, so it seems to most of us: Either all, or little to none. It's safer to assume she can manipulate much more than she displays.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

I just dislike when somebody try to make assumptions based on vague information.

I'd understand this for characters that have much less vague abilties, like was said already, we can only really assume with Yukari. While yes, she cannot affect certain beings, it does not tell what she can and cannot manipulate. It's just stated she manipulates the borders of the Gensokyo, so it seems to most of us: Either all, or little to none. It's safer to assume she can manipulate much more than she displays.

Furthermore, wouldn't you agree if she can make a 3D being into a 2D being, that she'd be able to manipulate simpler things? I do not think anyone here is trying to say she can make herself omnipotent, or make herself rise multiple dimensions, or anything of the sort. We're trying to assume rational applications.

 

[Andykhang]

Let see... one of her specialty is creating barrier, which is boundary in another name, and she got a huge contribution to the creation of the Hakurei Barrier. So, shouldn't we logically assume that she could create boundary too? Like she could "connect" the boundary between vessel to incurred a heart attack, or creating an perpeptual machine of the first kind with ease. Or how she could just create her own clothing and weapon just by creating a "space" to manifacturing that? (heck, she got a bunch of heater's fuel in one instance)

Also, there's also the border of Mind and Feet.(kind of a lesser version of Dream and Reality though).