Yukari Yakumo vs Sans

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Because we TOTALLY needed another Sans thread, there it is.

As usual, bloodlusted, no knowledge of the other blablabla.

1. Speed Equalized

2. Non-equalized

Not that make that big of a difference but yeah.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Speed equalized needs clarification when dealing with one that might be able to teleport and one that is confirmed to be able to teleport.

Yukari having no knowledge of the other is actually quite difficult to enforce, from a meta sense, since she can manipulate the boundary of knowledge/ignorance. Uber hax is uber hax.

KR probably works against Yukari(unless she was trolling, agai, when talking about eating humans). But actually hitting her would be a difficult task at best. Seriously, she thinks with portals! Blue mode? I can't fly? What about fall through a gap? That works.

Most importantly in this match is speed... Sans probably has that in round 2. The next most important thing is hax... Yukari has the edge here. Yukari has the edge in intelligence as well.

Overall, Round 1 is almost surely Yukari by my initial analysis. Round 2, I'm going to have to go with Sans due to speed hax at this time.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

If it goes well, round one most certainly goes to Yukari, since she can just return all of his attacks. Or just make them disappear. Round two leans to Sans, unless Yukari gets a big speed boost.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Since this is supposed to be a surprise encounter(not sure how that's even possible with Yukari) I don't see how she can react to the first attack from Sans.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

KR would probably work on Yukari. I wouldn't be surprised if she both trolls or make half lies. That itself is a sin but not enough to warrant KR, but she's still a youkai

But I do wonder if she can return KR to Sans with portals...

I think the rounds separation is kinda not needed though since both of them are fast. Yukari has a lot of range with her teleportation via gaps and they have similar natural speds

 

[Drac32Drac]

Yukari, at least on this wiki, doesn't have the reaction speeds to counter Sans' initial blitz attacks. But... given prep, even if Sans does too, she could probably still win the unequalized fight. There's undoubtedly some set of boundaries she could manipulate to give her the win, especially when combined with her legendary mind.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Yes, I suppose WITH prep time, Yukari SHOULD win. That boundary manipulation is no joke at all, it's a very scary type of hax to deal with if I say so myself.

 

[Drac32Drac]

That's the rub, though, isn't it? How do you justify a Yukari vs. match without prep time? That in itself is virtually impossible.

Speaking of things she could likely do with gaps alone, I present...

Portal shenanigans

Summon Weapo

Also, she outwitted the "Brain of the Moon" that may or may not be the celestial goddess of knowledge and wisdom. That puts her potentially on the order of Did You Just Scam Cthulhu?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

R1: Leaning towards Yukari due to likely being able to counter Sans' hax for long enough to eventually just put him out of business.

R2: Most likely Sans. Even when an opponent can get inside info on Sans, he still manages to be rather unpredictable, and his speed advantage should allow him to put Yukari down before she can put him in serious danger with her hax.

 

[Drac32Drac]

What about barriers? Yukari is proficient in barrier magic, and the vast majority of Sans' damage is actually KR which shouldn't affect a barrier.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's actually part of why I'd give her round 1. I just don't think she'd be fast enough to get them up in time during round 2.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Well, we agree on that point. I just cry foul about denying Yukari prep time... it would make a world of difference. Plus, it's hard to imagine in the first place.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

True, though Sans' also usually has a significant amount of prep time. Granted, he can't really put his hax to use during it, but he's pretty damn good at setting things up.

 

[Drac32Drac]

I doubt Sans can scheme anything anywhere close to what Yukari showed in SSiB. While the actual main plot points aren't that far fetched, it's absolutely ludicrous that they went the way they did with how little direct or indirect interaction Yukari herself actually had. And the mind games going on throughout it all, it's insane! Kira aint got nothing on Yukari when it comes to Keikaku.

Also, as you've said, Yukari CAN use her hax in her prep.

But, alas, there's no prep in the battle, so there's no point in debating it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Very, very true, though Sans isn't a slacker, either........Okay, he's totally a slacker, but what I mean is pushing the guy into a corner is usually far more dangerous for the one doing the pushing than it is for Sans, as that's really the point in which he "can't afford not to care, anymore".

Yeah, using hax in prep is always very, very deadly. The problem with Sans' hax are that almost all of them involve directly affecting his opponent, meaning they violate the rules of prep and cannot be used until the actual battle begins.

Still though, it's always good to get its merits down. For future Yukari battles, of course.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Honestly, they are both kinda lazy slackers that like to troll their friends. XD

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That honestly seems like the IC result of the fight. XD

The world's most obnoxious team up. If they ever get around to it, that is.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Just add Tewi and you have the unholy trinity of trolling!

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Oh dear lord.

The troll levels are off the charts.

 

[AWildAPSona]

im not going to lie

alot of people are talking out of their ass with undertale sans fanboyism idk why people think hes so fast when yukari has hi m beat in both natural speed and a far stronger teleportation/reality hax ability to augment her natural speed with on top of that

its literally standard in touhou verse to move beyond lightspeed and reimu regularly dodges/goes beyond light speed

did I mention that yukari also regularly trolls the same reimu by always sneaking up on her/appearing behind/beside her and stealing her food for troll sake?

idk who gave yukari such a low tier speed rating on the wiki but they need to go back and study the games and read the official zun comics because yukari is far beyond just mere lightspeed

 

[Drac32Drac]

The speed tiers in Touhou are currently in place from demonstrated feats. And they aren't that hard to believe when you factor in the few known demonstratable feats that have actually been shown. Remilia, Aya, Youmu, etc... They are probably more accurate than the Undertale equivalents...

Also, without prep, she can't augment her speed to compensate regardless.

 

[Drac32Drac]

idk who gave yukari such a low tier speed rating on the wiki but they need to go back and study the games and read the official zun comics because yukari is far beyond just mere lightspeed

I would love to see the evidence you have on speed feats. If you present a good enough case, it probably would be reflected in the wiki.

 

[AWildAPSona]

ÕóâþòîÒéƵôìÒéïÞâ¢ÕèøÒü»ÒÇüÕà¿ÒüªÒü«þë®õ║ïÒéƵá╣Õ║òÒüïÒéëÞªåÒüÖµüÉÒéìÒüùÒüäÞâ¢ÕèøÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.
þƒÑÒüúÒüªÒü«ÚÇÜÒéèÒÇüþë®Òü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿Òü»ÕóâþòîÒüîÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïõ║ïÒüºµêÉÒéèþ½ïÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé	As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries.
µ░┤ÚØóÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüµ╣ûÒü»Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé	If there was no water surface, there could be no lake.
þ¿£þÀÜÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÕ▒▒Òééþ®║ÒééÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒüáÒéìÒüåÒÇé	If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.
Õ╣╗µâ│ÚâÀÒü«ÕñºþÁÉþòîÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÕ╣╗µâ│ÚâÀÒééÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé	Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist.
ÒééÒüùÕà¿ÒüªÒü«þë®Òü½ÕóâþòîÒüîÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒü»õ©ÇÒüñÒü«ÕñºÒüìÒü¬þë®ÒüºÒüéÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåõ║ïÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
ÒüñÒü¥ÒéèÒÇüÕóâþòîÒéƵôìÒéïÞâ¢ÕèøÒü»ÒÇüÞ½ûþÉåþÜäÕëÁÚÇáÒü¿þá┤ÕúèÒü«Þâ¢ÕèøÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is by logic an ability of creation and destruction.
Þ½ûþÉåþÜäÒü½µû░ÒüùÒüäÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒéÆÕëÁÚÇáÒüùÒÇüÞ½ûþÉåþÜäÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒéÆÕɪիÜÒüÖÒéïÒÇé	It essentially creates a new existence, or conversely rejects some existence.
ÕªûµÇ¬ÒüîµîüÒüñÞâ¢ÕèøÒü«õ©¡ÒüºÒééþÑ×µºÿÒü«ÕèøÒü½Õî╣µòÁÒüÖÒéïÒüºÒüéÒéìÒüåÒÇüµ£ÇÒééÕì▒ÚÖ║Òü¬Þâ¢ÕèøÒü«õ©ÇÒüñÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.

Òâ╗µ░ùÒüîõ╗ÿÒüÅÒü¿þø«Òü«ÕëìÒü«ÚúƒÒü╣þë®ÒüîþäíÒüÅÒü¬ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïµÖéÒüîÒüéÒéïÒü«ÒÇéÒéäÒéüÒüªµ¼▓ÒüùÒüäÒÇÇ´╝êÕìÜÚ║ùÚ£èÕñó） "She makes my food disappear right out from under my nose, even when I'm careful about it. I wish she'd stop." (Reimu Hakurei)


source ~ perfect memento in strict sense an official zun databook

pretty sure being able to always catch a lightspeed character off guard and always troll them implies you are faster than the shitty 1/10th speed of light rating she got or w/e it is or it simply shouldnt be possible touhou isnt exactly some long running fighting anime with alot of feats but the characters are clearly very powerful with many broken ass reality bending abilities so lets not forget that

sans abilities are literally blown out of proportion because undertale is a popular game and he was an entertaining character

what did he do? he dodges attacks and could teleport between areas/get there before you

and he has his blinking attacks teleport move which is something like sakuya could already do with her time manipulation anyways

apparently all you have to do going by sans loss is just dodge until he gets tired or do something that turns off his ability to dodge

lets not forget he literally only has 1 hp and 1 defense

your attacking him once every turn with a single swipe

what proof has been shown on undertale for sans to dodge something like this? http://s24.postimg.org/ruaf1yy1v/Yukari.png

it reminds me of people fanboying over one punch man when he still needs oxygen and thus anyone that could nuke earth would beat him by default due to suffocation

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well due to being a Spell Card battle Yukari's feat should probably be casual anyway.

Reimu is only lightspeed in PC-98, which is non canon.

You need to actually need to somewhat break reality to hit sans, in in-game terms you need to attack while it's not your turn, even then you need to attack twice in a turn, no clue how it translates in an actual battle.

 

[DontTalk]

By feats Touhou characters are 0.2c with the fastest like Aya being FTL (1.6c).

They should all have around lightspeed reactions though, given that they do dodge light danmaku plot wise.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Also, it's not that Sans is being fanboyed, it's that he has a HUGE unknown range on his effective speed. That's why so many of his fights are inconclusive. The only thing that is usually given in his favor is his gauranteed first strike against opponents that aren't on the order of omnipresent.

 

[AWildAPSona]

Well due to being a Spell Card battle Yukari's feat should probably be casual anyway.
Reimu is only lightspeed in PC-98, which is non canon.

You need to actually need to somewhat break reality to hit sans, in in-game terms you need to attack while it's not your turn, even then you need to attack twice in a turn, no clue how it translates in an actual battle.

there isnt any proof that hes literally immune to everything

how about the boundry between sans b eing able to dodge and not being able to dodge?

I mean any of the stuff you attribute to sans being OP can easily be applied to yukari and on a greater scale because in theory she should have more to bring to the table in terms of reality bending than sans

lets not forget he got tired during the fight and thats why he fell asleep in the first place

basically we have seen everything sans is capable of but we have not seen everything yukari is capable of

 

[Drac32Drac]

No one here disputes the fact that Yukari has the greater hax overall. It's just that Sans has the first strike.

Also, caution should be used when referencing Perfect Memento in Strict Sense. There is a lot of ZUN trolling and misinformation in there. Heck, Yukari herself made revisions to it before publication.

 

[Promestein]

Should the profiles be updated to reflect lightspeed reactions, then, DontTalk?

 

[DontTalk]

Should the profiles be updated to reflect lightspeed reactions, then, DontTalk?

Would have to be discussed properly first, so like... in a spereate thread.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pretty sure there is more than a single lightspeed attack in the game, considering that Marisa only uses that: Heat and Light attacks, although I guess the one used is the more obvious one. Maybe Marisa dodging her Master Spark could be calced and scaled to others. Maybe.

Also there is Ran who seems much faster than the light attacks in IN, but it would scales to Yukari here.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

What? It's pretty unanimously agreed upon about how easily Sans can die, which is part of why his entire fighting style revolves around being able to dodge and not giving the enemy an inch.

Yukari being casual with her speed does not automatically make her >>> Sans. Especially considering all of Sans' dodging is casual, as well. Hell, the game's first miniboss is rel+ to FTL. Being conservative and on the safe side with speed ratings doesn't mean they're slow.

"Sans abilities are being blown out of proportion"

Okay, lets look at the facts.

Sans killed a character capable of ending reality in a single blow, though said character had the ability to always just come back, meaning he was really just trying to make them get bored and give up.

Sans repeatedly dodged attacks from a character who is at the very least rel+.

Sans has soul manipulation.

Sans naturally does 1 damage "per frame".

Sans does more damage to those with more sins.

Sans is physically incredibly fragile.

Yeah, that's some craaaaaazy blowing out of proportion, right there.

Also, it was generally agreed upon, in this very thread, that Yukari has superior hax. That doesn't mean she can't lose the fight, though.

 

[Drac32Drac]

My vote stays the same thus far. Yukari wins the speed equalized and loses vs the blitz. Anyone got anything else to add?

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Round 1: Yukari.

Round 2: Most likely Sans, dependant on if Yukari actually had killed many people.

Also, it's an injustice to deny Yukari and Sans prep time. It's practically what they're made for.

 

[Phoveon]

I kind of feel like yukari would win both rounds, simply because of the sheer amount of hax she possesses. For example she could manipulate the boundary between hit and miss (would this work on sans?) or she could manipulate the boundary bitween fast and slow to equalize speed by her own means for round two.

 

[Drac32Drac]

I kind of feel like yukari would win both rounds, simply because of the sheer amount of hax she possesses. For example she could manipulate the boundary between hit and miss (would this work on sans?) or she could manipulate the boundary bitween fast and slow to equalize speed by her own means for round two.

You would be at least somewhat correct, if she were allowed prep time. But she isn't, meaning Sans gets the first hit anyways.

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

If this were to be put into their profiles, should it just be "Inconclusive"? Due to the fact Yukari most likely wins round one, and Sans most likely wins round two.

 

[Drac32Drac]

As it stands now, it is pretty clearly dead even between rounds 1 and 2. If there were a round 3(with prep), we could have a conclusive result.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As it stands now, it is pretty clearly dead even between rounds 1 and 2. If there were a round 3(with prep), we could have a conclusive result.

An inconclusive Sans thread?

Truly, this is a shocking outcome which nobody could see coming.

 

[Drac32Drac]

That's why I suggested a round 3. In this case, it doesn't have to be inconclusive.