Yukari 6-C Downgrade

[Ringo_solos_all]

Wave functions = infinite dimensions is a claim that still hurts me, to this day

I am pretty sure that

It's not the claim. Schrödinger's cat proved that the wave functions are in a superposition state which allowed them to be added up to form an infinite-dimensional space according to the superposition principle.


Even if it's only some wave functions, it would be High 1-C to 1-B depending on the context of string theory. ( M-theory or Bosonic String theory)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Allows" is not remotely close to "is in all cases". Wave Functions are exactly what the name implies; functions. It's a descriptor, not a physical thing.

Unless we accept High 1-C to High 1-B hydrogen atoms, now.

Then of course there's people not having any idea how Hilbert Space works, and assuming creating a theoretical mathematical space which can be used to house any number of dimensions is the same as actually creating a real, physical Hilbert Space.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I think Azzy that what's used to upgrade stuff is the implication that all of reality can potentially contain up to Infinite D, not that there is any Infinite D structures.

Not that it matters here but still. I'm preparing an answer to that above wank too.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Saikou

...couldn't we use the exact same logic for the real world?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Nothing we would really scale it to, not even the grizzly bear, surprisingly enough.

Legit though, I don't know? Isn't that all mostly in theory irl anyway? Most fictional works treats it as fact.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

For most theories, no. Unless you mean in a purely mathematical sense, but not a physical one.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Maybe? I don't know man. Just saying that people treats Wave Functions like Strings: It confirms higher dimensions within the setting of the verse, which only applies to reality busters.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Wave functions = infinite dimensions is a claim that still hurts me, to this day

But... But... if some aspect of something can be described through something with infinite dimensions it clearly proves there are infinite dimensions!!!!1!1!11eleven

Chewing a bubblegum clearly makes me 1-B, 'cause the way its shape changes can be described using the infinite dimensional space of continous functions from its original shape to the $ \mathbb{R}^3 $

 

[Lasatar]

Yukari has already been shown to manipulate the boundry between 2D and 3D. It's not that farfetched to assume she could also manipulate the boundry between 3D and 4D, as well as any dimensions higher than that.

Not to mention that we already have someone in the verse who can manipulate 4D, and that's Sakuya. She can use her time abilities to create or destroy alternate timelines, and even erase pockets of time. I would laugh the day that Sakuya is somehow stronger than Yukari.

 

[Kaltias]

It kinda is a stretch given that compared to a dimensional jump, even an infinite difference is absolutely insignificant. I manipulate 3D objects all the time but you can bet that I can't reshape the timeline. Same for Yukari.

Yeah it's called hax. Also, destroying timelines? When?

 

[Lasatar]

Using her hax, Sakuya has been shown to create alternate timelines that run parallel to the current one, which is how she is able to create copies of herself in some of the fighting games. She destroys those said timelines afterward as well. Otherwise, the copies would stick around.

She can also erase an object or objects from the space-time continuum.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No.

Being able to summon alternate selves =/= creating the timeline in question. That's a buttload of assumption with literally no basis. Especially given that creating another timeline wouldn't create a clone of a person in the main timeline. That's borderline the most wanked way you could interpret this feat, which all come from this single goddamn line:

"Another Sakuya will appear right in front of the actual Sakuya. If you can input the buttons before she splits bodies, the two bodies will move independently. The reason behind this? Parallel universes, etc, etc."

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also let me deal with that list above.

1. Slapping a Sakuya feat in my face isn't "time and time again". Manipulating space-time on the scale of a mansion isn't anywhere near Low 2-C. It's just hax. Sakuya having Imaginary TIme mentioned in her spellcard doesn't mean she can naturally exist in it, nor would it make her Low 2-C or 4-D. Even if Gensokyo is a Braneworld, it's an extremely small one. Affecting it is hax.

2. So, everyone who destroys a universe is now 2-C because this universe has timelines? Unless anyone affects/destroy those timelines, the existence of said timelines doesn't matter one bit. Not even two bit.

3. It doesn't. It's only named-dropped in the name of the Spell Card. Also see Azzy

4. I'll get to that on my next point.

5. What I said means that the 11 or Infinite dimensions don't simply exist in Gensokyo, but in the verse in general. As both theories are the same thing, they wouldn't be separated into the Outside World and Gensokyo. Gensokyo is nothing more than a Brane World/space-time continuum. I'll get to that on point 6.

6. I'm not denying that Yukari affects the fabric of Gensokyo, but that's just hax. Saying that "Braneworld = 4D to InfiniteD meaning that Yukari is High 1-B" is as nonsensical as saying that a non-specific rock could be anywhere near the size of a pebble to a planet, meaning that this rock busting feat is possibly 5-B. Gensokyo is extremely consistently a 4-D space.

7. No it doesn't.

8. You'll need far more than some out-of-context screenshot with "dimensionless" highlighted to prove that.

 

[Lasatar]

Dismissing feats in the games themselves is acceptable, as long as adequate reasoning is provided. However, outright ignoring/downplaying things that were officially stated by ZUN, both in the games and outside of them, is a really sad defence.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And what was officially stated by ZUN out of what I said? 99% of what was brought up is pure, unadulterated speculation based on names and attempts at using quantum mechanics.

Even then, note that WoG which heavily contradicts canon won't be used.

 

[Ringo_solos_all]

5. What I said means that the 11 or Infinite dimensions don't simply exist in Gensokyo, but in the verse in general. As both theories are the same thing, they wouldn't be separated into the Outside World and Gensokyo. Gensokyo is nothing more than a Brane World/space-time continuum. I'll get to that on point 6.

6. I'm not denying that Yukari affects the fabric of Gensokyo, but that's just hax. Saying that "Braneworld = 4D to InfiniteD meaning that Yukari is High 1-B" is as nonsensical as saying that a non-specific rock could be anywhere near the size of a pebble to a planet, meaning that this rock busting feat is possibly 5-B. Gensokyo is extremely consistently a 4-D space.

7. No it doesn't.

8. You'll need far more than some out-of-context screenshot with "dimensionless" highlighted to prove that.

@Saikou

5. I am pretty sure Gensokyo has different properties, meaning that they are separated.

Scans from Dr. Latency's Freak Report

https://i.imgur.com/zq1L5Kj.png

https://i.imgur.com/zPEylQv.png

https://imgur.com/159azIZ

6. Strawman.

No one says she's High 1-B because of Gensokyo being a mere braneworld. I listed the scans about Gensokyo being another braneworld to only prove that it's separated and its presence of wave functioning doesn't whatsoever contradict Outside World following String Theories. Gensokyo is infinite dimensional because of Schrodinger's Cat.Scan from Dr Latency's Freak Reporthttps://imgur.com/hSJjo9uhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_catSchrödinger's cat is a thought experiment, sometimes described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It illustrates what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretatio of quantum mechanics applied to everyday objects. The scenario presents a cat that may be simultaneously both alive and dead, a state known as a quantum superpositio, as a result of being linked to a random subatomic event that may or may not occur.
A commonly held interpretation of quantum mechanics is the Copenhagen interpretation. In the Copenhagen interpretation, a system stops being a superposition of states and becomes either one or the other when an observation takes place. This thought experiment makes apparent the fact that the nature of measurement, or observation, is not well-defined in this interpretation. The experiment can be interpreted to mean that while the box is closed, the system simultaneously exists in a superposition of the states "decayed nucleus/dead cat" and "undecayed nucleus/living cat", and that only when the box is opened and an observation performed does the wave functio collapse into one of the two states.

Simplistically saying, Schrodinger's cat proved the wave functions are in a superposition state and will collapse if observed, in which Merry did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

In quantum mechanics, wave function collapse is said to occur when a wave function—initially in a superposition of several eigenstates—appears to reduce to a single eigenstate (by "observation").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_functio

According to the superposition principle of quantum mechanics, wave functions can be added together and multiplied by complex numbers to form new wave functions and form a Hilbert space.


For a given system, the set of all possible normalizable wave functions (at any given time) forms an abstract mathematical vector space, meaning that it is possible to add together different wave functions, and multiply wave functions by complex numbers (see vector space for details). Technically, because of the normalization condition, wave functions form a projective space rather than an ordinary vector space. This vector space is infinite-'''dimensional''''', because there is no finite set of functions which can be added together in various combinations to create every possible functio.


It proved the wave functions can be added to form an infinite dimensional Hilbert Space.

And please, don't commit a genetic fallacy when trying to disprove it.


7. Saying something isn't what it is doesn't' whatsoever prove it's not.'

Argument from belief and incredulity

8. >Didnt debunk it whatsoever

The scan is from:

https://books.google.com.my/books?i...onepage&q=dimensionless non euclidean&f=false


https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LaiSL7699/posts/4m3bsnBSCQ5

Some info about Non Euclidean space with scans. ^

For the last time, don't commit Burden of proof, genetic fallacy and argument from incredulity/belief