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Yugioh Upgrade Thread Revival

What consistency though? No one even brought other higher tier feats to suggest that, let alone brought forth any actual reason to why it isn't an outlier.

And if Somebody and Dark still agree with me, now with Ever, that'll make 3 staff members who reject this so far.
 
>STILL pushing the "more people agree with me" thing as some kind of validation.

Thats a pretty sad argument. I find it funny that you use that when last thread people supported me and you just stopped saying that.


Kukui, you have no evidence. And no amount of "supporters" will change that any time soon


Infinite Obelisk has never changed its effect in the animverse, and thus, it is consistent.
 
except outliers exist for a reason. That's like saying superman should be multiversal in post crisis when he has not only lower ends like bullet or building but he is mostly consistent in tier 4 range....
 
When its staff members taking sides, who are the ones who approve/reject upgrades for any verse here in the first place, it is very valid. It matters a whole lot actually. Not saying non-staff's opinions dont matter, but if enough staff agree/disagree with ratings, thats the deciding factor.

And the problem here though is I don't need to prove this is an outlier. Its your job to prove it ISN'T an outlier. Thats how this works for every stat revision thread here. Your side are the ones claiming these ratings are consistent, so the burden of proof is on you to provide that.

Its fine if Obelisks effects dont change, that isnt my issue with it. The issue is the assumption that Infinite ATK points suddenly goes to equaling tier 3, which I detailed out already.
 
What the hell happened here.

One. stop trying to point to 2nd, Kukui.

Two. Post scans of your claims

Three. Any news on the tier 2 feats from GX? Or are those oitliers too?
 
Four.

I think it has alrrady been proven that atk points scale directly to ap.


In your perfect world, Yugioh is tier 10, isnt it? Because, i find amusing this desperate attempt of downgrading almost 6 different feats because they are "outliers" in your head.
 
RapidMotorcycle19 said:
I think it has alrrady been proven that atk points scale directly to ap.
Click to expand...
1436757540296
There's an entire big thread made years ago about why we don't do that.
 
@Rapid

Im sorry, but no. If enough staff disagree with this, then its not getting accepted unless you make a far better convincing argument to stop that.

Also, re-read my previous reply please. I don't have to provide any scans at all for proving this is an outlier. Its the opposite. Its your job to prove that this ISNT an outlier. Its like I said already. This is how it goes for any stat revision thread here and Yugioh is no different. The opposition, you guys, are the ones claiming this is no outlier and that it is consistent, so the burden of proof is on you to prove it. If you cant give a convincing argument for why this isnt an outlier, then its an outlier. Simple as that.

Next, 6 different feats, some of which have issues within themselves, wont stop them from being outliers. Its like what Ever said. Some things just are outliers and look at verses like Kirby. They have much more stuff going for them than Yugioh does and we still treat them as nothing but outliers to this day. If just 6 things were enough to disprove that, then this wouldnt be the case.

Finally, Im almost 100% sure that no one here has proven Infinite ATK points are the same as AP, as in an energy sense, and even if that was the case, infinite energy isnt tier 3 AP as that is easily covered by just infinite stamina. If infinte energy meant tier 3, then guys like Andriods 16, 17 and 18 wouldve been 3-A since DB's Andriod saga, which is absurd. This is especially glaring if there is no universal material to support this notion. In fact, theres more anti-feats here than non anti ones given Joey and Marik are involved in this, as claimed above, and both have never consistently shrugged off anything above human tier attacks. If nothing else, definitely not tier 3 ones. It just supports this being an outlier even more. Plus what Arigarmy said.

I dont have any "perfect world" where Yugioh is that weak. If I find reasons to believe there are flaws in the verse being as strong as you want it to be, then I am going to call it out instead of just blindily going along with it.

I say this not out of disrespect still, but a matter of evaluating material that I find issues with. Nothing more.

P.S.- Just a heads up, but at the moment I am very sick due to something that is spreading around where I live, so if I dont reply as much as I have been, this is why.
 
Proven by what though?

Not one piece of evidence or argument on why it isnt an outlier has been brought up and the little stuff thats been brought up, like the Infinite ATK points, was countered time and time again more than once.

If it was that easily proven as you claim it is, then quoting where this evidence is would be helpful. Otherwise I very much doubt anything happening just because its claimed not an outlier.
 
Yare yare.

I think Rapid has already posted enough scans and i have posted enough direct feats and evidence.

Its not my fault you believe your headcanon can suddenly break the rules stated on the show.

Sad!
 
>Scans and evidence

Okay good, but where? Where are they? That is my question.

>Head canon

So claiming feats as Outliers now, which is what 99% of this site does in stat revisions, is headcanon?
 
Okay, what the hell happened here.

@Prime

Calm down, being this aggresive will just give em an excuse to "debunk" ya.


@Kukui

Not again, why are you intentionally ignoring evidence?


My blog, the Joey vs Marik fight, All of Season 4, causing envioremental (aka raw ******* strenght) damage in Joey vs Valon and the multiple scans ive provided over the multiple threads ive debated you in.

And before you disregard this for the who knows what time, lemme post a new link for ya.

https://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=12m18s

And before you even attempt calcing the raw AP of this blast, know that both of Yugi´s feats are about reaching infinite atk points, and thus, every value you can possibly force upon us is instantly increased to high 3-A by math alone.

AND before you even attempt to say it is an outlier, this is consistent between various Season 4 duels.

https://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=13m13s (Same duel, by the way)


Season 4, of course, scales to Anime Yugi.

Will you attempt to "debunk" the anime now?
 
@Rapid

The "debunk ya" sarcasm part was also unnecessary here. Remember, you also need to make an effort to remain civil here as well like myself and everyone else. We don't want what happened last time to happen again im sure.

Anywho, im not the one ignoring evidence. Problem here is your the one lacking in presenting it. The burden of proof is on your side. Only Mentioning stuff like "Joey vs Marik" without actually presenting scans or a type of evidence from it wont go anywhere.

>Your blog

The same blog, that was already addressed for more than the past 2 yugioh threads, and only talks about DSoD? I dont think its making a difference. In addition, the blog has nothing to with disproving this as an outlier.

>All of season 4

Again, this is really not evidence. At all. What parts of season 4? You cant just mention a season and not post anything from it to help support your argument. Anyone can do that for any other verse and it changes nothing.

>Environmental damage

Thats not tier 3, unless somehow this fight your talking about is suddenly destroying the likes of galaxies, which without showings brought here, I seriously doubt.

>Multiple scans in multiple threads.

Okay thats good. Then it should be no problem at all for you to bring those scans here. Its not mine or anyones jobs here to look for them. Its your job to bring them here or nothing is happening.

>1st link

Good that a link is posted. But I dont even need to look at this vid to say this is not tier 3. At all. High 3-A doesnt work like that. In fact, not even 3-A works like this. First off, I already addressed the Infinite ATK point stuff more than 5 times in this thread alone. There is absolutely no proof that ATK points in Yugioh equal power in actual energy/strength sense. Theres none. And Arigarmy above literally confirmed us having a detailed thread on why we dont accept ATK points equalling that. Second, even if given the benefit of the doubt and it does mean energy, if there is absolutely no implied or even hinted universal material to support it (and there isnt otherwise you wouldnt mention "calcing"), then it wont, isn't, and will never be tier 3. Infinite energy by itself is just infinite energy and can easily be placed under just endless stamina. Because if endless energy was enough to be 3-A, then again, Andriods 16, 17 and 18 from Dragonball would have each been 3-A since the Andriod Saga. And we dont do that for obvious reasons. Not just them too. As another example, take Victini from pokemon. Victini is a pokemon that is able to literally create and store infinite energy within itself. Yet he isnt 3-A. Hes only tier 6-5 at best. If infinite power by itself was enough for tier 3, we'd have 3-A to High 3-A pokemon already. We cant and dont judge "infinite energy" material by itself as 3-A or tier 3 if there is no material of any kind to support it being that tier. We can only judge it by what it either actually destroys or what a calc can give it through math. So in other words, if it is a 6-B feat for example, its a 6-B feat no matter which way you slice it. Or if a calc gives it a 5-C yield, the feat is 5-C.

>Consistent

Claiming its consistent and then linking the exact same duel isnt really...well...consistent. Again, if you claim the season has a various amount of duels that prove its consistent, then prove these duels exist by posting them here. Taking your word for it just like that is not enough. If theres no evidence of these duels being consistent, then it isnt and nothing will change. And even then, like Ever said already, somethings are just outliers through and through. A number of duels wont neccesarily make this not an outlier.
 
Woah, youve just shown the entire thread that you didnt read his post.

The point of the links is that any damage done with any number of atk points is that if one value is elevated to infinity, the other should too.

It doent matter if Joey's attack was made with 2000 aatk if Obelisk can raise that variable literally to infinity.

Of course you were not going to see anything tier 3 on those links.
 
But again though, that's why I said I don't need to look at the vid to already say what I said.

Not one thing from that is tier 3. Whatever can be explained for that gets covered by what I said in my previous reply. Tier 3 does NOT work like that.
 
aka. It doesnt matter if you can only break a rock in two with 8000 atk if Infinite ATK raises each value to high 3-A by the basic laws of math alone.
 
Jeane de Arc from the Puella Magi verse was upgraded to High 3-A based on her inverse stats.

Jojo has been scaled by inverse stats since the start of time.

Literal infinity of something that caused ANY sort of damage raised it to literal infinity, aka High 3-A.


Its over.
 
Megaboy Prime said:
aka. It doesnt matter if you can only break a rock in two with 8000 atk if Infinite ATK raises each value to high 3-A by the basic laws of math alone.
Click to expand...
This also shows your not reading my reply as ive said and explained 3 times already. Please re-read. Using ATKs as justification for this is flat out flawed and outlierish unless a really good explanation covers this.

>Jojo and Jeane de arc

I dont know those verses but im almost 100% sure either they are getting the same treatment as Yugioh or they have different justifcations. Making them, again, major false equivalncies.

Unlees you make a far better convincing argument, to get staff to accept your arguments and the upgrades, this discussion isnt over.
 
>I dont know these verses >making false equivalences

If you do not know the verses, then how the hell did you conclude it is a false equivalence? Do some research before accusing someone of presenting false or incorrect arguments.


Most stats on Jojoverse and PuellaMagiversse are made out of the charts in their manga, which rank various stats on a scale from D to A. What the hell os the difference between literally scaling someone as ifinite on a chart compared to a literal numerification of infinity? None imo.


The thing is, Joey vs Varon caused SOME raw AP. Wathever that amount is, it is increased by infinity by basic mathemathics.
 
This reminds me that Asriel is 2-A because he has infinite AP and Durability according to game stats, which apparently are canon.
 
I mean, I disagree with scaling the monster's Attack and Defence stats to their AP and Durability, because there are monster s that despite having a finite amount of Attack and Defence points (heck, even 0) they are Tier 2, and the fact that in game, you can just use a Maigic Card to raise their stats exponentially just makes it even worse.

Again, in cases like these, the monster's Tier should be scaled only via lore, or maybe statements (example: Galaxy Eyes Photon Dragon and Tachion Dragons are stated to be equal [even if their tier is unknown, but whatever, you got it]).
 
Lemme simplify this for you before you reply, Kukui.

Did they generate any kind of energy in the duel (aka. Using ATK points)? Yes, as shown in the links rapid provided ttps://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=12m18s https://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=13m13s Are effects able to be used irl? Yes, because of Shining Dragon using its effect irl in the novel and the movie. https://youtu.be/ylC-MJjpPiM Obelisk has infinite ATK points? Anime Obelisk has the effect that allows itself to gain infinite atk points https://youtu.be/BKTcorgMlrs

And thus, scales directly to High 3-A by basic laws of mathemathics.

b-b-b-but those are STATS! W-we cant use them to scale ANYTHING!

Jojoverse, Undertale and Puella Magi verse literally use literal ingame stats, ranks and inverse guides to determine stats.

B-but!

No, its over.
 
@DMB1 Sorry mate, but Joey vs Varon in Season 4 (which is canon to anime Yugi) already proven that duel monsters atk can cause raw AP energy in the real world, and by effects, would scale to Infinite Obelisk.

Of course, it would be troublesome to determine that a certain amount of attack mean a specific AP, but this one is pretty much clear cut.

(A reasonable assumption would be 4000 ATK = Planet Level because of Base Obelisk being stated to be able to destroy the planet in the anime at Season 5, but then there are monsters that can destroy stars and stuff in card lore at far lower ATK points.)
 
@Rapid

Because they wouldnt be at those tiers unless they had good reason to and had other users here supporting them. If not, then they too should also be downgraded for possibly being in the same boat as Yuguoh. That is what I meant when I used "either" to address both conclusions.

Differences? What about canonincity and how the mechanics of the verse work? Those are very notable differences to explain why they get it and why others do not. Not all verses are the same. That said, because I dont know the verses, if there is no differences then another thread about them should be made to not derail this one.

>Raw AP

Yes I can see that Rapid but the problem again is that isnt how tier 3 works. You cant do a raw AP feat, apply infinite energy, and then suddenly raise it to 3-A. Victini has AP feats. Andriods 16-18 Pre-DBS have AP feats. They all have infinite energy and are no where near tier 3. Applying this kind of logic would suddenly and majorly upgrade not only the former, but also any character whos lower than 3-A but have endless energy.
 
>Trying to even fool people into thinkinh ATK points are "energy".

You are flat out trying to fool people at this point.

1.-Atk points are the direct source of the AP feat in question, there is no 'energy" nor "stamina' mechanic in yugioh, in fact, every single time ATK is talked about its about strenght. Yugi literally says that sacrificing Two minsters for Obelisk gives him "infinite strenght" in the pyramid of light's opening Yugi vs Kaiba duel.

2.-energy has never ever been talked about in yugioh, that is flat out headcanon.


I tought you bettee than this, but right now, you are doing nothing but lie and push a literal false narrative.
 
Also, literally comparing DB's Androids to Yugioh is a false equivalence as explained above.

And that shit aint getting pass me because i actually know about the verses you are trying to fool people with.
 
Are you saying Dragon Ball Android's infinite eneegy is somehow comparable to literal infinite strenght?

Who the hell are you trying to fool here? That is 100% head canon.
 
Megaboy Prime said:
Lemme simplify this for you before you reply, Kukui.

Did they generate any kind of energy in the duel (aka. Using ATK points)? Yes, as shown in the links rapid provided ttps://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=12m18s https://youtu.be/_sX_3BVpv-Y?t=13m13s Are effects able to be used irl? Yes, because of Shining Dragon using its effect irl in the novel and the movie. https://youtu.be/ylC-MJjpPiM Obelisk has infinite ATK points? Anime Obelisk has the effect that allows itself to gain infinite atk points https://youtu.be/BKTcorgMlrs

And thus, scales directly to High 3-A by basic laws of mathemathics.

b-b-b-but those are STATS! W-we cant use them to scale ANYTHING!

Jojoverse, Undertale and Puella Magi verse literally use literal ingame stats, ranks and inverse guides to determine stats.

B-but!

No, its over.
Click to expand...
For the former, I already addressed this more than 7 times now. None of this is tier 3 in any sense or the requirements and definition. You need to re-read or carefully look at my replies. As for the latter, i said this in my recent reply. Those verses, if different, have more going for them than Yugioh to put them at those tiers. Yugioh =/= these verses. Not all verses are made the same. But if they arent different, then those verses needed to be discussed in a different thread regarding their stats so this one isnt derailed.

@Rapid

Again, dont accuse me of stuff. We dont want this ending up like last time and making accusations is not helping.

1.) Re-read my replies then. We already have a thread explaining why ATK points equaling power isnt acceptable here and no it isnt proven. There is absolutely no evidence that ATK points equal strength. No energy mechanic? Whats the basis of a characters power? Energy. This is simple. And having infinite energy does not at all mean you are tier 3, much less 3-A for the reasons ive already explained but keep getting missed.

2.) Once again, energy is the basis of a characters power....there is nothing headcanon about that. Everyone uses energy for their power and strength.

>Andriods as false equivalnce

They arent, unless you have a good explanation for why they are different. Both sides are given infinite power, in the sense of energy for their strength, yet the andriods before Super are absolutely no where near tier 3. And even with the benefit of the doubt, Victini is still an example to how this isnt 3-A as well.

>It being head canon

It most certainly is not 100% head canon. It's using logic. Once again, to have power and strength you need energy. To be 5-B in power you need 5-B energy. To be 4-C in power you need 4-C energy. To be 3-C in power you need 3-C energy. And so on. The andriods, like everyone else, have energy and ever since the Andriod Saga have been confirmed to have an infinite amount of it. And they arent 3-A in the absolute slightest (Pre-DBS). Not even tier 3. So what exactly makes Yugioh any different from this in them having infinite energy from ATK points? Without a good explanation, nothing at all.
 
That has already been accepted in the previous thread about Shining Dragon, who used its effect on Anubis like he was a monster in the Pyramid of Light Movie/Novel.
 
Which makes any non-duelist technically a monster in a Versus Thread, and Pegasus's Dark game Soul Damage hax should scale to all Dark Game users. (Yugi, Shadi, Marik,etc.)
 
That doesn't really change much according to my previous replies.

And that's a sub yes? I can't check the vid atm because I'm still in school right now.
 
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