Yu Yu Hakusho speed upgrades?

[Antvasima]

We can't seem to arrive at a consensus regarding whether or not we should accept a Yu Yu Hakusho lightning dodging feat.

I would appreciate help from the staff members to evaluate the comment section of the following blog post, and respond with their conclusions here.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:YamiSukehiro1/Yusuke_Urameshi_Speed_Calc

Take note that this thread is intended only for the staff, and retired staff members (such as DontTalk) to discuss the issue.

 

[Dark649]

It's different to dodge lightning as a projectile and dodge energy lightning while held as a sphere in the palm of the hand, also that lightning is red.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Lina_Shields]

soldier blue sent a calc request regarding this series. My thoughts on this topic will be based on the results of Soldier Blue's calc request.

 

[Antvasima]

Noted.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Lina if its the Hiei one, unless it gives us a higher result it wont be consistent with this since Hiei is stated to be the fastest of the four. I think that would only scale starting the Dark Tournament arc.

 

[Lina_Shields]

A calculatio has been done regarding Seiryu and Hiei's speed.

Pretty sure the whole lightning thing is considered an outlier by this point...

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Lina Shields

You're right. MHS to MHS+ C-class beings now seem like outlier.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I think it is safe to call this feat an outlier at this point. Perhaps later in the series they had faster feats, but not this early.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Even upper S-class beings (the god tiers of the verse) don't have feats above Mach 350 if I remember correctly.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. I will close the comment section of the lightning blog then.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Sorry, I know that this forum is just for staff but I belive some poits are forgot here. In first Seiryu said that the onlu one who can evade his attacks are Suzako, so his speed are better that Seiryu. Other thing, the speed that was suppous in that calc of @Lina I think is a little wrong, he need to use the dpeed of Seiryu and the distance moved for him campered with his speed to put a time frame that will be a little superior than 0.01 secs.

Except that it took Seiryu about a split second to perform the 100 punches. No reason lower the timeframe for said feat when the feat itself is explicit about the timeframe given (1 second) for Seiryu's punches.

Also, I factored the distance between Seiryu and Byakko just before the punch in the calculation, and multiplied that by a hundred since he punched from that distance a hundred times, as Seiryu stated.

Also, don't post here.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not sure if Hiei's supers casual feat means if it's an outlier. Also, many fictions, even some shounen, have one speed feat where one feat is what scales the cast. I feel that this shouldn't be different.

 

[RadicalMrR]

If Yusuke could barely see Hiei's hypersonic attack, how could he see an attack hundreads of times faster?

Also since Hiei is much faster than the 4 this feat barely scales as it is.

 

[Lina_Shields]

So, we are okay with this feat being an outlier, correct?

Hiei's casual speed feat only reaches up to Mach 8, which is over a hundred times less compared to the calculated lightning feat.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Please read my comment on your blog, Lina.

 

[Ryukama]

As long as what Cal has been saying is accurate, then I see no reason why the lightning feat should be discarded.

If we have an actual feat that is a certain value, yet a character performs a far lesser feat without any sort of effort, why should the greater feat be deemed an outlier?

It's like saying DBS ep 12 is an outlier since Vados's best feat is planetbusting.

If this was a mere statement of " he can dodge lightning" where the best feat is Mach 8, I'd be comfortable deeming it a hyperbole, but that isn't the case. We have a solid, legitamate feat of lightning dodging.

If Hiel explicitly struggled with the Mach 8, I'd also be fine with it being deemed an outlier. But assuming Cal is correct, it goes without saying Hiel's going to perform far lesser feats if he isn't trying against fodder. Are we to expect Saitama to split the atmosphere with every Demon level he fights now?

That is my opinion on the matter. Rest of staff is free to agree on their final decision.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Ryu Yusuke says he only saw about 8 slashes, how could react to an attack 100s of times faster if the the mach 8 one was to fast for him to see?

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Ryu: The issue here is that nowhere in YYH we have characters reaching that level of speed, at all.

The highest speed we got for YYH is at Mach 350, and that was done by a vastly faster/stronger Yusuke near the end of the series.

Not to mention Toguro (who is hypersonic+), completely blitzed him during their first encounter.

 

[Ryukama]

@Radical I can't view that panel. Is Yusuke saying he can only see eight out of a number of those attacks or that he counted 8 of them?

Regardless I'm pretty sure if we used assumed timeframes/cinematic timing to calculate Whis dodging Goku and Vegeta's attacks, we'd get a vastly lower result. Which means MFTL+ is an outlier for the characters.

However we don't calculate those instances of Whis blitzing the saiyans and indicating that they can be blitzed by such lower speeds. Rather assuming Whis is going at MFTL+ speeds to blitz them.

@Lina I don't know about this supposed Mach 350 feat. However using a super casual feat someone put no effort to in order to say a much higher feat is an outlier (like you're doing with Mach 8 Hiel) is not how it works. Or I'll be preparing to downgrade all of Dragon Ball, Saitama and countless other characters.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Ryu This is Hiei's mach 8 feat that Lina calced, Yusuke couldnt keep up with Hiei when he performed it. It was given an in Manga timeframe.

http://********.me/manga/yu_yu_hakusho/v05/c004/16.html http://********.me/manga/yu_yu_hakusho/v05/c004/17.html

If you can see these ill get them from a different site.

 

[Ryukama]

I still can't view those manga panels. However if we are talking about Hiel's mach 8 feat Lina calculated, it does not seem like that had any given timeframe.

I'm pretty sure if we took a scene of Whis throwing a punch too fast for Goku to react to, assumed Whis threw it in an FTE timeframe, we'd get a very low result. Making MFTL+ a total outlier. But we don't do that. We assume Whis threw a MFTL+ punch to blitz them.

If there is an explicit timeframe/speed stated to Hiel's calc, I'm not sure. Maybe it could be an outlier then but it'd depend on what other staff have to say.

If so, would this still be an outlier for Hiel too? Rather an outlier that Yusuke was able to defeat him. Like how Magolor is still 3-A, Solaris is still Tier 2 and the Frieza soldier that didn't kill Roshi is still Tier 5.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Oh ok now I get wut u mean. Nevermind.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that the lightning speed feat would both be an outlier compared with everything else shown in the series, including much later, and that it is highly arguable whether or not it is valid, in combination, given that he lightning was tangible, and had a different colour than normal, which makes it doubtful if it works like the real version.

 

[Ryukama]

I can't judge whether this lightning feat would be an outlier for the series as a whole. Nor am I saying that the calc itself is accurate, which it may not be for all I know due to my lack of calcing knowledge.

What I am saying is using the fact that a stronger character performed a lesser feat when they are complete casual and not trying at all against fodder, is not a good argument to call a higher feat an outlier in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The calculation itself is probably okay, but DontTalk disagreed with it, since the supposed lightning did not show standard lightning properties, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Well, the problem is that the lightning speed feat would both be an outlier compared with everything else shown in the series

I still think that the entire lightning feat is invalid based on this reasoning alone.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, the combination of being unreliable as true lightning, and being an outlier in any case, likely disqualifies it.