Yu Yu Hakusho downgrade

[Joseph619]

Also, to address one of your original points, unless the statements are either outrageous or hyperbole (Like every "destroy/threaten the universe" bluff), then they can be used (Like with Beerus being able to destroy the solar system). Not having feats means nothing, again, like with DBZ.

Sensui being planet buster is much more outrageous than Beerus being universe buster. However Yusuke didn't say anything about Sensui busting a planet, just destroying the world (same as Whitebeard's), which is totally vague, and probably implies lifewiping.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That was not what I meant. I was referring to the whole Japan thing.

 

[Davy0]

(Laughs) A pat on the back and a punch in the gut. I can take it.

For your first part, Ant. Again, he was superior to Yomi and Mukuro who could replicate said feats performed by Yusuke more effortlessly than he could if they had wished to. Like DB, characters can place the same amount of force into their attacks as they would their blasts, and such.

 

[Joseph619]

I still think that you should place a message at Rocks75's wall, and ask him about it. He is likely the most knowledgeable staff member regarding Yu Yu Hakusho. In any case, if I understand cocrrectly, Sensui has only been calculated at Island level, and Yusuke casually oneshot dozens of demons at his level, I could easily see him as Country level. Although I admit that whether we can infer that Raizen is Continent level from that seems more uncertain.
Anyway, Davy0 isn't a troll. He is occasionally rude or argumentative, hut he tends to be logical.

I already stated what's wrong with the fallacy- Sensui has only been calculated at Island level, and Yusuke casually oneshot dozens of demons at his level, I could easily see him as Country level.

Naruto one shot Tonei in partial KCM, where Toneri is continent level. Likewise, Rikudo Mode Naruto should be AT LEAST moon level. However, this is NOT accepted on vsbattles wiki for some reason. The same should be applied to YYH

 

[Joseph619]

That was not what I meant. I was referring to the whole Japan thing.

The same. Yusuke didn't actually destroy Japan. It's said he had potential. We should not take statements for granted, we don't do that for Dragon Ball Z here, despite Beerus having several Galaxy+ statements. Dont see why YYH should be treated with more kindness

 

[Davy0]

That's why we made the guy Multi-Continent Level. (shrugs) I don't see your point. Chibaku Tensei is the reason for Hagoromo being superior. He had a refined Chibaku Tensei that couldn't even be replicated by Six Sage Madara.

 

[Joseph619]

That's why we made the guy Multi-Continent Level. (shrugs) I don't see your point. Chibaku Tensei is the reason for Hagoromo being superior. He had a refined Chibaku Tensei that couldn't even be replicated by Six Sage Madara.

What has Hagoromo has to do with his? I am talking about Naruto and Toneri. And Yusuke didn't destroy any country, while Naruto and Sasuke sealed Kaguya in a moon. Naruto has actual quantifiable feats in rikudo mode, Yusuke doesn't. He only has powerscaling and hype

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Well, we did place Naruto as Multi-Continent level after Madara was calculated at Continent level, so going by the Attack Potency proportions, I could buy the argument of downgrading Yusuke to Small Country level, based on being casually dozens of times more powerful than Sensui. Which I suppose would place Raizen at regular country level. Would this be acceptable for everybody?

 

[Davy0]

This has nothing to do with Yusuke, this has everything to do with him angsting. Yusuke should be capable of staying as he is, due to being capable of fighting against Yomi who was much more than just "Small Country Level" who he is trying to downgrade is Raizen, and I say we do that, understanding that an at least should be placed there, making him Large Country Level.

 

[Joseph619]

Hmm. Well, we did place Naruto as Multi-Continent level after Madara was calculated at Continent level, so going by the Attack Potency proportions, I could buy the argument of downgrading Yusuke to Small Country level, based on being casually dozens of times more powerful than Sensui. Which I suppose would place Raizen at regular country level. Would this be acceptable for everybody?

That should be more reasonable for now. Also please reqeust the calc group to redo Sensui's cliff busting feat, it looks unreliable like Madara's previous chibaku tensei calc

Are you gonna edit the pages or somebody else?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am busy with a backlog, and we need input from more people, especially Rocks75, so it will have to wait for now. I also don't have the energy or know-how to appropriately rescale all of the YYH profiles by myself.

 

[Joseph619]

Well, I am busy with a backlog, and we need input from more people, especially Rocks75, so it will have to wait for now. I also don't have the energy or know-how to appropriately rescale all of the YYH profiles by myself.

Well Sensui and Raizen should be downgrade for sure. If a new calc is made on Sensui's cliff busting feat and it gives lower yield than the original (which I strongly suspect), than Yusuke and then the rest would get downgraded as well

 

[Davy0]

Again, Sensui is inferior to almost all of Raizen's "friends", Yusuke and the others even comment on the power they have after the funeral takes place for him, and show their power. Characters show surprise at just how powerful they were, they were all superior to Yusuke pre-Mazoku training. Yomi only lost due to his battle with Yusuke draining him of most of his energy and Enki still being in better shape.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Again, Sensui is inferior to almost all of Raizen's "friends", Yusuke and the others even comment on the power they have after the funeral takes place for him, and show their power. Characters show surprise at just how powerful they were, they were all superior to Yusuke pre-Mazoku training. Yomi only lost due to his battle with Yusuke draining him of most of his energy and Enki still being in better shape.

correct

 

[Joseph619]

^^ Being inferior or superior is unquantifiable in this case, we don't know how much stronger Raizen and co are than Sensui as they don't have feats to suggest. All we know that they can one shot Sensui. Being able to one shot an island level char doesn't make you continent level. Thats ridiculous. Unquantifiable hype is not enough to justify country/continent busting

 

[Davy0]

Nah, we know from the hype that they are supposed to be at the very least life-wipers. What we gave them because they are unquantifiable is Country Busting. Yusuke was superior to Sensui who as you keep saying, is "Island Level Maximum". That would place him somewhere on the high-end of Island Busting no matter how you try to place it. Yusuke was superior to most of Raizen's friends (shown with his feat of multi-one shotting high-end A-class and low S-class opponents with a few casual punches.

Keep going though.

 

[Joseph619]

Nah, we know from the hype that they are supposed to be at the very least life-wipers. What we gave them because they are unquantifiable is Country Busting. Yusuke was superior to Sensui who as you keep saying, is "Island Level Maximum". That would place him somewhere on the high-end of Island Busting no matter how you try to place it. Yusuke was superior to most of Raizen's friends (shown with his feat of multi-one shotting high-end A-class and low S-class opponents with a few casual punches.
Keep going though.

The bolded words are the main problem here. VSbattles wiki doesn't take supposed to and unquantifiable hype into account for other verse. The same should go for YYH.

Also I highly suspect that Sensui being island buster calc is inaccurate, the same as Madara's previous chibaku tensei calc. If a new calc is made and gives lower yield then Yusuke and co will be further downgraded

 

[AllanSaiyan]

they even send the special defense force that means he was a real threat

 

[Joseph619]

they even send the special defense force that means he was a real threat

How does that prove that a character is country/continent level if there is no feat?

 

[Davy0]

Because it's established that they created a defense force for these specialty operations dude.

 

[Joseph619]

^^And that's a country busting feat?

 

[Davy0]

Nope, it implies something, and that's all it needs to. DB implied that characters were stronger than what we had been seeing, the logical conclusion that came from it was to make the characters Star Busting even though we'd never seen them star bust, unless you can show me some feats with Goku Star Busting, because all I've seen is Buu busting Large Planets continuously. It's a logical conclusion.

 

[Joseph619]

Goku is a star buster because Beerus is as well. Nobody in YYH destroyed a country or continent for that matter. Those feats simply do not exist. I don't see how that is even comparable. DBZ has feats to powerscale from, YYH does not. All country/continent busting is nothing but hype and assumption, not actual feat. Beerus was also IMPLIED to destroy rhe universe, nobody buys that here

 

[The_Everlasting]

When someone casually oneshots dozens of island busters, they're country busters at least.

 

[Davy0]

You do realize that we would have never truly known that if... We didn't have calculations that showcased the true power of the characters abilities as they lacked feats in doing so. Speculation and logic stating that they should be much stronger than they were thanks to the overwhelming power possessed by the latest villain they were fighting. And the movies stating that Beerus was at least that strong, if that one statement didn't exit from Whis' mouth or if Beerus' had said nothing in DB Super about his ability to destroy a Solar System effortlessly, we would have been sitting on Beerus' being Large Star Level at BEST without those statements. Correct?

 

[Joseph619]

When someone casually oneshots dozens of island busters, they're country busters at least.

Antvasima said Sensui was calced at 335 gigaton. That's large island level (i think the calc is wrong anyway). Where is it said that Yusuke was thrice as strong (or x times as strong) as Sensui or others? You don't need to be thrice as strong to KO a weaker person

 

[Davy0]

Because he beat Sensui... and Raizen's friends were stronger than Sensui, and Yusuke showed his superiority to Sensui by beating the hell out of those characters by one-shotting them with enough speed and power from the sheer force of his CASUAL punches.

 

[Joseph619]

You do realize that we would have never truly known that if... We didn't have calculations that showcased the true power of the characters abilities as they lacked feats in doing so. Speculation and logic stating that they should be much stronger than they were thanks to the overwhelming power possessed by the latest villain they were fighting. And the movies stating that Beerus was at least that strong, if that one statement didn't exit from Whis' mouth or if Beerus' had said nothing in DB Super about his ability to destroy a Solar System effortlessly, we would have been sitting on Beerus' being Large Star Level at BEST without those statements. Correct?

Wrong. DB Super is not over yet. It has barely started. YYH was over long time ago, we already saw their max power. Not a single country/continent busting feat. I don't see why Yusuke or Raizen need to be hyped like Beerus since we already saw their max extent of power. Beerus hype is legit, theirs is not. If anybody deserves the hype, its Beerus because the anime is still running, not the YYH chars. We have already seen what YYH char did and what feats they have

 

[Joseph619]

Because he beat Sensui... and Raizen's friends were stronger than Sensui, and Yusuke showed his superiority to Sensui by beating the hell out of those characters by one-shotting them with enough speed and power from the sheer force of his CASUAL punches.

All of these is X>Y>Z without A SINGLE FEAT. A SINGLE FEAT. Casual punch means nothing. It's unquantifiable

 

[Davy0]

This guy isn't getting it. I'm done....

He calls me a biased wanker, but he doesn't understand the sheer stupidity of what he's trying to say... We already accepted making Raizen Country Level+/Large Country Level at least, that's all we need. I say we close this thread.

 

[The_Everlasting]

So? A series doesn't need many feats to powerscale a cast (DBZ is a prime example), and either way, it's definately not unquantifiable.

 

[Joseph619]

This guy isn't getting it. I'm done....
He calls me a biased wanker, but he doesn't understand the sheer stupidity of what he's trying to say... We already accepted making Raizen Country Level+/Large Country Level at least, that's all we need. I say we close this thread.

Watch your words, I never called you a wanker. If you can't be polite please avoid discussion threads

 

[Joseph619]

So? A series doesn't need many feats to powerscale a cast (DBZ is a prime example), and either way, it's definately not unquantifiable.

Except Beerus has feats for Goku and co to powerscale from, whereas Raizen and co were being improperly powerscaled from Sensui

Whatever, it seem we have reached a verdict. Davy0 has agreed to the downgrade

Raizen- country level by powerscaling

Yusuke- small country level

Sensui- island level+

 

[Valar_Melkor_2]

I agree with what was suggested earlier of placing Yusuke and the other top tiers at Small Country level and Raizen at Country level via powerscaling.

 

[Davy0]

What do you think Biased means in trying to make a series seem better than it actually is. It's called context, something you don't seem to be getting, but I'll be a good boy.

No, never say what I've agreed to guy, or I'll start being less of a good boy.

Yusuke keeps his Country Busting +, Raizen gets Large Country Busting, and Sensui is Small Country Busting at Minimum, that sounds good.

One more thing. You don't seem to understand what you're implying, and this makes it even worse for you. The entire thing with Beerus comes from the contest of being TOLD he can do so. Please, show me some feats of him busting a Solar System, OR EVEN BETTER YET! Show me a feat of him busting a UNIVERSE! I'd love to see those feats please. So we can be unbiased about giving DBZ it's fair share.

 

[Joseph619]

.

 

[Davy0]

I agree with what was suggested earlier of placing Yusuke and the other top tiers at Small Country level and Raizen at Country level via powerscaling.

You do realize that if we do that, DB takes a hit as well, because it's all implied at what Beerus can do, not what he actually has been seen doing, right?

 

[Joseph619]

What do you think Biased means in trying to make a series seem better than it actually is. It's called context, something you don't seem to be getting, but I'll be a good boy.
No, never say what I've agreed to guy, or I'll start being less of a good boy.

Yusuke keeps his Country Busting +, Raizen gets Large Country Busting, and Sensui is Small Country Busting at Minimum, that sounds good.

Sensui was calced at island level (335 gigaton), not country. You are clearly showing bias

Yusuke remains at small country level and raizen at country level

 

[Davy0]

No I'm not showing Bias, I'm showing you how what you're saying also screws you over. We're not going to be doing power-scaling on this forum anymore. All the characters get their own feats, and whatever happens to any characters that get less than their fair share of screen time, we can just discount them because they couldn't get feats. Implied situations don't work either, we can't take them because there's nothing to hold up said statements, so what we need to do is wait for the feats of Beerus' destroying a solar system, Whitebeard destroying Islands, and Naruto busting Multiple Continents with sheer force before we say they can. That makes EVERYTHING fair.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

on Raizen profile "It stated that Raizen in his prime years was more powerful than the combined might of Yomi, Mukuro, and his former friends in their prime years" continent buster seems legit if that statement is true or he could at least be large country and possibly continent level