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Shouldn't have said that, Kukui. While that wasn't offensive, you should've just dropped it altogether.
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Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Side of Dimensions
- Thread starter Arigarmy
- Start date
- Status
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My bad, but I had to bring it up since its been happening for a large part of this debate, here and in the last thread.
And I don't want it to end up like that.
And I don't want it to end up like that.
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Standing behind Cal and Pachi in this one.
If this thread gets remotely uncivil again, it will be instaclosed & bans will be handed out. At this point, we're going against our own rules.
If this thread gets remotely uncivil again, it will be instaclosed & bans will be handed out. At this point, we're going against our own rules.
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Just wanted to make this known if not already:
If any staff feels I am also in the wrong for anything, I apologize greatly for that. I completely have 0 intentions in making this thread remotely un-civil and hostlie. And if there's anything I may have done that they feel I am in the wrong for, I am taking full responsibility for it.
If any staff feels I am also in the wrong for anything, I apologize greatly for that. I completely have 0 intentions in making this thread remotely un-civil and hostlie. And if there's anything I may have done that they feel I am in the wrong for, I am taking full responsibility for it.
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Busy. Pls do wait a bit.
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@Pachi
While this goes on, would you want to give your input if interested? SD and Dark may still feel the same but it'd help to have more people give their input in this as well to help decide things.
While this goes on, would you want to give your input if interested? SD and Dark may still feel the same but it'd help to have more people give their input in this as well to help decide things.
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Here's my rebuttals. (Managed to post this in school, wow) Not relevant to the discussion.
1.) Thats fine and dandy but the problem here is that a good chunk of this isn't even statements. You don't get anything from "strongest in the universe" tier wise, otherwise again guys like Frieza would have long been 3-A before now. And even if the range of the Dark plana's erasure was going as far as entire solar systems/galaxies that doesnt automatically warrant universal erasure range (DONT confuse this with the Planas range. Its very Multi-Universal via BFR, im talking about the range its erasure went.
Also, even taking it at 100% face value, using reality manipulation on a universe still isnt AP. It'd be 3-A hax. "Thats fine and dandy" is disrespectful to my side´s argument. You should behave.
Like Rapid said before, the "Strongest in the Universe" statement is meant to complement the other statements on that point, I guess you missed that point. Frieza stated HIMSELF to be the strongest in the universe, not that it is even remotely relevant to this discussion, since even i know Frieza is not the strongest in the DB universe, but in Yugioh, it is fair to assume Shadii told Diva this, and no Millenium Item has feats even remotely close to the Quantum Cube.
There are two ranges. Dimension range (Stuff that was going to be destroyed by Dark Diva) and the BFR Range (Multi Universal).
Rapid made his argument clear with the order of events and the scans showing that the RAW Purple range of the Dimension Prana was going to destroy was already beyond planetary, thus implying they meant the entire universe while saying "World."
2.) Which is why I said it doesnt need to be stated to be reversed. If a power is recanted/negated, then so are its effects. And thats especially true if a power is in the middle of being in effect. Its something very obvious that doesnt need a specific statement. You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material. Thats how we get limited in feats. Also, its just as you said yourself. Its blatently said throughout the whole movie that Atems return would negate the Plana and make it vanish for good. Going off that, thats definitely a prochecy hax as thats not stressed enough. All this means is that the Planas power is connected to Atems presence. Take Kami or Dende from DragonBall. They have a connection with the Dragon Balls and if they should die, the DragonBalls with vanish/turn to stone. This is no different. As long as Atem lives in the world, the Plana cannot be activated. Once he leavea, it can he and if he should ever return to the world, it will vanish permanently. That doesnt have anything to do with Atems own power (as somebody clarified to me before when I brought this up Ill add). And if it actually did have to do with Atems power, this returns to my original point. Atem would have been doing this passively via entering Yugi instead of actively and its ridiculous on many levels for many reasons for Atem to passively be a 3-A. Not to mention an incredible outlier.
You dont need the reversal to be stated? So, you can ignore statements at will and claim wathever you wish?
>Recanted means that a power´s effects is ermoved. WRONG. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/es/diccionario/ingles/recant
It literally means removal. Not reversal. DO NOT MAKE UP DEFINITIONS. THIS IS FLAT OUT LYING.
>You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material.
This speaks volumes of what your argument is trying to convey, if you do not confirm every last detail with scans or statements, you are literally making up events.
>Prophecy means Prana related to Atem´s return.
Yes, thats true. Its removal, not its reversal. The fact that the phrophecy talks about its REMOVAL from the Prana Kids. Not the REVERSAL of its effects.
This is further proven by the selection of actions reversed. If ALL of Prana was reversed, the Bullies, Henchment, CHild Sllave ownder in Egypt and more would have returned back to normal, and we have no reason to think that.
>Dragon Ball Example.
Not applicable to Yugioh in any way, not to mention that if Dende dies, the balls stop working on that instant. Unlike Prana and Atem.
>Not to mention an incredible outlier.
You AGAIN ignored this rebuttal in Rapid´s post. It has already been explained why this is no outlier.
>Or just a weakness of the Plana,
Proof of this? Like Rapid already proven, there is no prophecy that speaks of the REVERSAL of Prana´s effects. Ever. Nor such a weakness was ever mentioned.
>your somewhat over-exaggerating things.
Not and argument and it is flat out saying that you dont want to even accept this fact even if it was proven beyond questioning, and thus, shouldnt be able to even debate this. If you are not willing to accept the truth even when the evidence says so speaks volumes of your intent.
as clarified multiple times. Plus, even if the Kids didnt lose their powera first, that doesnt mean the Plana wasnt weakening. It was in the process of vanishing.
Proof of that? Because the removal of Prana from their bodies was quick and there were no signs that the seal on their heads was weakening or being erased slowly as this claim would imply. Not to mention there is no evidence of this.
> And again, the planas power is just tied together with Atems presence in the world, connected to him.
Already disproven by the OoE (Order of Events) and the Prophecy in Point 1.
And your definition of "Recanted" is a flat out lie. As shown that rapid´s post already had the dictionary definition on it ONE WEEK AGO.
And thats another problem. Atem never directly does any active act of reversing the erasure. All he does is come, summon his monster, and destroys Divas monster, beating him. "No indication on it being on the prochecy" when its literally stressed throughout the movie the Plana leaves when the Pharaoh returns has little to no chances of being correct.
OoE again, disproves this, as the reversal was done before the Prana even left the Prana kids´s bodies. And since Atem is the only being conscious at the time fighting Dark Diva, it simply is a nobrainer to deduce that Atem was the only one who could have reversed the damage on his return.
And it wouldnt matter if it was Atem who did it because not only is it definitely not an AP feat (reversing erasure is hax only at best) it would still be an outlier. But to prevent a back and forth loop on this point, it may be easier if you post a scan of what you think is him directly doing the feat so its clear on what we're arguing about.
Already proven not to be an outlier in the previous rebuttal.
AP has been applied to reversal feats, and on this scale, it is flat out 3-A.
As long you keep ignoring the fact that it was already proven not to be an outlier on the previous rebuttal, i could see this as a "Nu huh i wasnt debunked comment" once again. Adress the debunk or just drop this, because we didnt make another thread just for the "circle" to repeat itself.
Part 1.
1.) Thats fine and dandy but the problem here is that a good chunk of this isn't even statements. You don't get anything from "strongest in the universe" tier wise, otherwise again guys like Frieza would have long been 3-A before now. And even if the range of the Dark plana's erasure was going as far as entire solar systems/galaxies that doesnt automatically warrant universal erasure range (DONT confuse this with the Planas range. Its very Multi-Universal via BFR, im talking about the range its erasure went.
Also, even taking it at 100% face value, using reality manipulation on a universe still isnt AP. It'd be 3-A hax. "Thats fine and dandy" is disrespectful to my side´s argument. You should behave.
Like Rapid said before, the "Strongest in the Universe" statement is meant to complement the other statements on that point, I guess you missed that point. Frieza stated HIMSELF to be the strongest in the universe, not that it is even remotely relevant to this discussion, since even i know Frieza is not the strongest in the DB universe, but in Yugioh, it is fair to assume Shadii told Diva this, and no Millenium Item has feats even remotely close to the Quantum Cube.
There are two ranges. Dimension range (Stuff that was going to be destroyed by Dark Diva) and the BFR Range (Multi Universal).
Rapid made his argument clear with the order of events and the scans showing that the RAW Purple range of the Dimension Prana was going to destroy was already beyond planetary, thus implying they meant the entire universe while saying "World."
2.) Which is why I said it doesnt need to be stated to be reversed. If a power is recanted/negated, then so are its effects. And thats especially true if a power is in the middle of being in effect. Its something very obvious that doesnt need a specific statement. You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material. Thats how we get limited in feats. Also, its just as you said yourself. Its blatently said throughout the whole movie that Atems return would negate the Plana and make it vanish for good. Going off that, thats definitely a prochecy hax as thats not stressed enough. All this means is that the Planas power is connected to Atems presence. Take Kami or Dende from DragonBall. They have a connection with the Dragon Balls and if they should die, the DragonBalls with vanish/turn to stone. This is no different. As long as Atem lives in the world, the Plana cannot be activated. Once he leavea, it can he and if he should ever return to the world, it will vanish permanently. That doesnt have anything to do with Atems own power (as somebody clarified to me before when I brought this up Ill add). And if it actually did have to do with Atems power, this returns to my original point. Atem would have been doing this passively via entering Yugi instead of actively and its ridiculous on many levels for many reasons for Atem to passively be a 3-A. Not to mention an incredible outlier.
You dont need the reversal to be stated? So, you can ignore statements at will and claim wathever you wish?
>Recanted means that a power´s effects is ermoved. WRONG. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/es/diccionario/ingles/recant
It literally means removal. Not reversal. DO NOT MAKE UP DEFINITIONS. THIS IS FLAT OUT LYING.
>You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material.
This speaks volumes of what your argument is trying to convey, if you do not confirm every last detail with scans or statements, you are literally making up events.
>Prophecy means Prana related to Atem´s return.
Yes, thats true. Its removal, not its reversal. The fact that the phrophecy talks about its REMOVAL from the Prana Kids. Not the REVERSAL of its effects.
This is further proven by the selection of actions reversed. If ALL of Prana was reversed, the Bullies, Henchment, CHild Sllave ownder in Egypt and more would have returned back to normal, and we have no reason to think that.
>Dragon Ball Example.
Not applicable to Yugioh in any way, not to mention that if Dende dies, the balls stop working on that instant. Unlike Prana and Atem.
>Not to mention an incredible outlier.
You AGAIN ignored this rebuttal in Rapid´s post. It has already been explained why this is no outlier.
>Or just a weakness of the Plana,
Proof of this? Like Rapid already proven, there is no prophecy that speaks of the REVERSAL of Prana´s effects. Ever. Nor such a weakness was ever mentioned.
>your somewhat over-exaggerating things.
Not and argument and it is flat out saying that you dont want to even accept this fact even if it was proven beyond questioning, and thus, shouldnt be able to even debate this. If you are not willing to accept the truth even when the evidence says so speaks volumes of your intent.
as clarified multiple times. Plus, even if the Kids didnt lose their powera first, that doesnt mean the Plana wasnt weakening. It was in the process of vanishing.
Proof of that? Because the removal of Prana from their bodies was quick and there were no signs that the seal on their heads was weakening or being erased slowly as this claim would imply. Not to mention there is no evidence of this.
> And again, the planas power is just tied together with Atems presence in the world, connected to him.
Already disproven by the OoE (Order of Events) and the Prophecy in Point 1.
And your definition of "Recanted" is a flat out lie. As shown that rapid´s post already had the dictionary definition on it ONE WEEK AGO.
And thats another problem. Atem never directly does any active act of reversing the erasure. All he does is come, summon his monster, and destroys Divas monster, beating him. "No indication on it being on the prochecy" when its literally stressed throughout the movie the Plana leaves when the Pharaoh returns has little to no chances of being correct.
OoE again, disproves this, as the reversal was done before the Prana even left the Prana kids´s bodies. And since Atem is the only being conscious at the time fighting Dark Diva, it simply is a nobrainer to deduce that Atem was the only one who could have reversed the damage on his return.
And it wouldnt matter if it was Atem who did it because not only is it definitely not an AP feat (reversing erasure is hax only at best) it would still be an outlier. But to prevent a back and forth loop on this point, it may be easier if you post a scan of what you think is him directly doing the feat so its clear on what we're arguing about.
Already proven not to be an outlier in the previous rebuttal.
AP has been applied to reversal feats, and on this scale, it is flat out 3-A.
As long you keep ignoring the fact that it was already proven not to be an outlier on the previous rebuttal, i could see this as a "Nu huh i wasnt debunked comment" once again. Adress the debunk or just drop this, because we didnt make another thread just for the "circle" to repeat itself.
Part 1.
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3.) Aside from the already clear Multi-Universal range from BFR, I already knew the Plana world was in a different reality than earth. Just because its in a different reality and was being attacked doensnt mean it was destroyed. All we know is that it was targeteed too.
The same attack that was already ending directly at the middle of stadium implies it already consuded the Prana World too. Not to mention that it was shown BEFORE Dark Diva already claimed VICTORY over Yugi, why would he of all people do this before the entire process would have ended?
He flat out said "The Entire World Lost!" Which was already proven to refer to the universe by the previous post.
Also, your making another assumption. The Plana dimension being that big doesnt mean all dimensions Diva creates, like from dimension duels, are. It's NLF and needs proof for every single dimension being that sized.
Why, would Dark Diva´s Dimension be SMALLER than Base Diva? Not only he has two millenium items at his beck and call, it makes no sense why the EVIL version would want to do less damage than regular Diva.
Not to mention that it was already proven that MATERIAL OBJECTS do not disturb the dimension, as shown in his duel with Yugi on the Tournament.
4.) The red cloud engulfing the Plana world doesn't mean much. The sky was only covered by it, it still doesn't mean it was destroyed. All we know is that the Plana world was being targeted. And again, you cannot assume 3-A anything going off of "strongest in the universe" and "World". The former doesnt prove anything like how it doesnt mean Namek Frieza is 3-A and only the latter has a possibility of meaning universe and thats not enough.
Already adressed by the points above, not to mention that in Diva vs Yugi there was no reason Diva would have wanted to erase the sky, and unlike DARK DIVA´s dimension, this was not implied to be with destructive intent, hell, he even wanted Yugi to join him.
The Strongest in the Universe and World stuff has already been adressed above.
And no more DB examples, please. They do not apply.
5.) The duel disk point again. First of all thats NLF. 'All forms of the Plana" being negated when all Diva used against Kaiba was BFR is incorrect.
Kaiba was only affected by DARK DIVA´s BFR when he lost in Duel Monsters, which means the Disk could only protect him until then. Why would he even bother dueling if the duel disks didnt give Yugi and Kaiba resistance to BFR? Why would the purple stuff affect Kaiba only appear when he lost?
Why? Because the new duel disks protected him as stated in the very beggining of the film and on the previous post.
Second, I dont see how this counters my point on only Kaiba getting the resistances and no one else. Also, I wouldnt arguesl stuff like "LP" being gone as thats game mechanics.
It was already proven Duel Monsters AFFECT PRANA DIRECTLY. This was shown when Diva lost to Yugi and was Prana´d and when Kaiba lost to Diva and was also Prna´d.
6.) More assumption. The Plana doesnt have a specific dimension, if your refering to the small space Diva, Mani and Sarah have been to, that is all it is. A small space.
The movie states it depends on how quickly you lose memories. There is ZERO statments that say it is a "Small Space".
Even bigger assumption, that space doesnt erase memories. None of Divas dimensions erase memories except the one he trapped Joey in, which is explicity specific for him and only him. What Diva did to that dimension doesnt mean he does that to them all.
You are literally stating that Diva can change his dimensions with different mechanics even IF WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING OF THE SORT IN THE MOVIE.
This is a falt out assumption if not headcanon. There is no indication the Dimensions are different for anyone else, as we have not seen anyone else´s dimension aside from Joey and Diva.
It would be like saying that if I make a pocket dimension out of fire, it suddenly means any other dimension I make is automatically made out of it.
It is, because we have not seen any other kind of dimension on the film, and you are literally arguing stuff that isnt even shown or even implied.
Part 2
The same attack that was already ending directly at the middle of stadium implies it already consuded the Prana World too. Not to mention that it was shown BEFORE Dark Diva already claimed VICTORY over Yugi, why would he of all people do this before the entire process would have ended?
He flat out said "The Entire World Lost!" Which was already proven to refer to the universe by the previous post.
Also, your making another assumption. The Plana dimension being that big doesnt mean all dimensions Diva creates, like from dimension duels, are. It's NLF and needs proof for every single dimension being that sized.
Why, would Dark Diva´s Dimension be SMALLER than Base Diva? Not only he has two millenium items at his beck and call, it makes no sense why the EVIL version would want to do less damage than regular Diva.
Not to mention that it was already proven that MATERIAL OBJECTS do not disturb the dimension, as shown in his duel with Yugi on the Tournament.
4.) The red cloud engulfing the Plana world doesn't mean much. The sky was only covered by it, it still doesn't mean it was destroyed. All we know is that the Plana world was being targeted. And again, you cannot assume 3-A anything going off of "strongest in the universe" and "World". The former doesnt prove anything like how it doesnt mean Namek Frieza is 3-A and only the latter has a possibility of meaning universe and thats not enough.
Already adressed by the points above, not to mention that in Diva vs Yugi there was no reason Diva would have wanted to erase the sky, and unlike DARK DIVA´s dimension, this was not implied to be with destructive intent, hell, he even wanted Yugi to join him.
The Strongest in the Universe and World stuff has already been adressed above.
And no more DB examples, please. They do not apply.
5.) The duel disk point again. First of all thats NLF. 'All forms of the Plana" being negated when all Diva used against Kaiba was BFR is incorrect.
Kaiba was only affected by DARK DIVA´s BFR when he lost in Duel Monsters, which means the Disk could only protect him until then. Why would he even bother dueling if the duel disks didnt give Yugi and Kaiba resistance to BFR? Why would the purple stuff affect Kaiba only appear when he lost?
Why? Because the new duel disks protected him as stated in the very beggining of the film and on the previous post.
Second, I dont see how this counters my point on only Kaiba getting the resistances and no one else. Also, I wouldnt arguesl stuff like "LP" being gone as thats game mechanics.
It was already proven Duel Monsters AFFECT PRANA DIRECTLY. This was shown when Diva lost to Yugi and was Prana´d and when Kaiba lost to Diva and was also Prna´d.
6.) More assumption. The Plana doesnt have a specific dimension, if your refering to the small space Diva, Mani and Sarah have been to, that is all it is. A small space.
The movie states it depends on how quickly you lose memories. There is ZERO statments that say it is a "Small Space".
Even bigger assumption, that space doesnt erase memories. None of Divas dimensions erase memories except the one he trapped Joey in, which is explicity specific for him and only him. What Diva did to that dimension doesnt mean he does that to them all.
You are literally stating that Diva can change his dimensions with different mechanics even IF WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING OF THE SORT IN THE MOVIE.
This is a falt out assumption if not headcanon. There is no indication the Dimensions are different for anyone else, as we have not seen anyone else´s dimension aside from Joey and Diva.
It would be like saying that if I make a pocket dimension out of fire, it suddenly means any other dimension I make is automatically made out of it.
It is, because we have not seen any other kind of dimension on the film, and you are literally arguing stuff that isnt even shown or even implied.
Part 2
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7.) You do know you can only infuse your spirit energy with monsters when in dimension duels right? Thats an explict mechanic of that dueling format that cannot be done anywhere else. So its not even an abiliy of the duelists but what the duel itself grants them.
He does so before the rules of Dimenion Duelin is explained, not to mention Kaiba himself says that it is linked to the Duel Links network.
And of course Yugi would see the same screens because its still a duel disk that has similar mechanical variations.
Those same screens are shown in the beggining of the film when Kaiba discusses the Duel Links tech.
It doesnt mean his is the same as Kaibas. Aside from shining energy, Kaibas duel disk runs the core basis of literally all Kaiba Corps technology. Yugis duel disk is just to play a game.
Already adressed on the other thread.
Yugi recognizes it as the new duel disk, looks the same as Kaiba´s, grnats resistance to Prana, if anything, Yugi doesnt seem to have the digital card system Kaiba had on his duel with Diva. Rad the previous thread, since this was already adressed there.
Theres no comparing the two. And for Yugi and Kaiba not being destroyed by the Dark Plana unlike the public, thats simple PIS for the sake of plot since its a common trope of "good guy vs bad guy", that if the good guy fails evil wins. And Yugi and Kaiba were kinda the only ones in commision to fight Diva.
You cannot assume everything with a explanation you DO NOT LIKE as PIS. It was already explained that the new duel disks grant resistance to prana, at least the BFR part.
You again, have no evidence, nor scans, nor statements nor timeframes to any proof that says they are different. And this was, AGAIN, adressed on the previous post.
5.) Your misinterpreting stuff.
The light that came from Atem the moment he entered Yugis body wasnt reversing anything. It was the Plana being destroyed via his return as the proprechy dictates numerous times. You can see that when the streams of dark plana energy glow and then vanish. Plus nothing was actually restored until AFTER the Dark Plana Cube destroyed itself. If nothing else.
Somewhat true, but you are still forgetting this scan of the pahraoh´s return. Where he is shown reversing Prana itself even before the Cube was destroyed.
This is already affecting and reversing the Prana that already consumed the Prana World, which exists in other reality.
the energy Atem unleashes was nothing more than power he lets out when transforming via Yugis body,
This is a flat out lie.
There is not a single point in the anime nor manga that Atem releases this amount of energy while taking control over Yugi. Never ever. If so, you wouldnt mind posting a scan of a single manga page when this happens.
which happens all the time in Yugioh. And once again, even with the benefit of the doubt and that its a legit feat, its still an outlier. Finally, if your gonna argue stuff like " Plana wasnt instantly destroyed, its still there", that is easily sake of plot so Atems final moment appearing is him defeating the enemy.
Rest of this point is circular arguments that i've covered here. Though I will say this. Nothing you put debunks the counter of Atem passively being 3-A, which is ridiculous as he'd destroy litrally anyone he faces just by standing doing absolutely nothing. And if yohr gonna say "then everyone and their mothers are just 3-A themselves", that makes it even more of a crazy outlier that will never be accepted.
>World was being restored as soon as the Pharaoh came back
Again, no it wasnt. It was being restored the instant after the Dark Plana Cube self-destructed. What happened when he came back was the Planas destruction. Your mixing things up.
Scan. previous post ,blog, OoE And the previous reply say hi.
6.) Okay and? The difference in distance between planet and universe is literally infinite. Not only does saying "either" still make it very speculative, but thinking its beyond planetary doesnt automaticslly mean universe. It can easily be solar, stellar, even galactic. All lower than Universe attack range but greater than Planetary attack range.
Already debunked by the previous post, and points 1 and 5 from Rapid´s blog.
The world statment was already proven to mean Universe and not planet, not to mention the Prana World exists in another reality.
7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Show me another Millenium Item even remotely comparable to it.
This was already debunked before, but you have to remember that this is two millenium items working together and were defeated by Game Mechanics and DUel Monsters, which has already proven to be legit on the NEW Duel Disk point in this very thread.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
Goku was tier 4-B and jumped to 3-A in a movie. And the difference between the both is literally trillions of times.
This was already adressed on the previous post you probably didnt read or flat out ignored.
Not to mention this does not contradict the series in any shape or form.
Not to mention you ignored the Homura Akemi example, who had a even bigger jump from tier 7 to literally 2-A in one movie, and it literally happened on the last 5 minutes of it. Why was that considered for Madokaverse and not Yugioh?
It looks like you might have a personal reason to deny this jump...
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level.
He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception.
It litearlly does, dude. The movie lead up to it.
Not to mention you cannot just dismiss Movies just because you dont like the character being upgraded by it.
And, again, already adressed.
8.) Beyond Multi-Planet range =/= affecting stars and the problem here is nothing shows stars and galaxies being consumed. We're ASUMMING they are just because of beyond planetary range, which is no where near enough and silly.
No, we are not assuming, we are confirming it by the Prana World being on another reality and scaling from previous feats in the same movie. And the Purple Prana consuming all the way from the Prana world to earth easly imply UNIVERSAL if not MULTI UNIVERSAL Destructive Capacity.
Doesnt matter much if he cant even reach them TO effect them. I could say I wouldnt spare the universe as many times as I want, im not a universal so its meaningless.
Again, no evidence behind this assumption you claim.
Diva has already been shown capable of affecting the Prana Plane, which is alredy Multi Universal and the darn purple consuming ring of death was ENDING on the stadium.
>Affecting the plana plane
Which is a different reality and can very well be in the same boat. We see the red clouds covering what the Dark Plana destroys so its very logical to say the planet would be covered by it.
So, do we agree it was affecting the Prana plane? If so, this jumps to Multi Universal.
And, the pillars on the Prana Plane were being erased and affected by it (As proven by this scan)
>BFR people.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
Very possible, but not proven not backed up by the movie itself nor its scans nor statments.
9.) Plana abilities I actually agree with yes. In fact it may have even more but nows not the time to discuss hax.
Thank god.
10.) It is a memory as I clarified below. Joey outright says it via power of friendship. Ill continue this there as you likely have thoughts about it.
The japanese version says nothing of the power of friendship, just that its bonds cannot be broken, as Rapid literally translated the Jpaanese dub to you last thread.
11.) Card lores, which have 0 evidence of those flashu entrances being legit. Theres a difference between saying, in lore, someone can destroy a universe and how flashy effects depict that. All the lore proves is they can destroy a universe. HOW its done is debatable.
CARD LORE PAGES ARE ALREADY A THING ON THIS WIKIA.
If you dont like them, do a Content Revision Thread, not to mention, this is a extra section thing.
Part 3
He does so before the rules of Dimenion Duelin is explained, not to mention Kaiba himself says that it is linked to the Duel Links network.
And of course Yugi would see the same screens because its still a duel disk that has similar mechanical variations.
Those same screens are shown in the beggining of the film when Kaiba discusses the Duel Links tech.
It doesnt mean his is the same as Kaibas. Aside from shining energy, Kaibas duel disk runs the core basis of literally all Kaiba Corps technology. Yugis duel disk is just to play a game.
Already adressed on the other thread.
Yugi recognizes it as the new duel disk, looks the same as Kaiba´s, grnats resistance to Prana, if anything, Yugi doesnt seem to have the digital card system Kaiba had on his duel with Diva. Rad the previous thread, since this was already adressed there.
Theres no comparing the two. And for Yugi and Kaiba not being destroyed by the Dark Plana unlike the public, thats simple PIS for the sake of plot since its a common trope of "good guy vs bad guy", that if the good guy fails evil wins. And Yugi and Kaiba were kinda the only ones in commision to fight Diva.
You cannot assume everything with a explanation you DO NOT LIKE as PIS. It was already explained that the new duel disks grant resistance to prana, at least the BFR part.
You again, have no evidence, nor scans, nor statements nor timeframes to any proof that says they are different. And this was, AGAIN, adressed on the previous post.
5.) Your misinterpreting stuff.
The light that came from Atem the moment he entered Yugis body wasnt reversing anything. It was the Plana being destroyed via his return as the proprechy dictates numerous times. You can see that when the streams of dark plana energy glow and then vanish. Plus nothing was actually restored until AFTER the Dark Plana Cube destroyed itself. If nothing else.
Somewhat true, but you are still forgetting this scan of the pahraoh´s return. Where he is shown reversing Prana itself even before the Cube was destroyed.
This is already affecting and reversing the Prana that already consumed the Prana World, which exists in other reality.
the energy Atem unleashes was nothing more than power he lets out when transforming via Yugis body,
This is a flat out lie.
There is not a single point in the anime nor manga that Atem releases this amount of energy while taking control over Yugi. Never ever. If so, you wouldnt mind posting a scan of a single manga page when this happens.
which happens all the time in Yugioh. And once again, even with the benefit of the doubt and that its a legit feat, its still an outlier. Finally, if your gonna argue stuff like " Plana wasnt instantly destroyed, its still there", that is easily sake of plot so Atems final moment appearing is him defeating the enemy.
Rest of this point is circular arguments that i've covered here. Though I will say this. Nothing you put debunks the counter of Atem passively being 3-A, which is ridiculous as he'd destroy litrally anyone he faces just by standing doing absolutely nothing. And if yohr gonna say "then everyone and their mothers are just 3-A themselves", that makes it even more of a crazy outlier that will never be accepted.
>World was being restored as soon as the Pharaoh came back
Again, no it wasnt. It was being restored the instant after the Dark Plana Cube self-destructed. What happened when he came back was the Planas destruction. Your mixing things up.
Scan. previous post ,blog, OoE And the previous reply say hi.
6.) Okay and? The difference in distance between planet and universe is literally infinite. Not only does saying "either" still make it very speculative, but thinking its beyond planetary doesnt automaticslly mean universe. It can easily be solar, stellar, even galactic. All lower than Universe attack range but greater than Planetary attack range.
Already debunked by the previous post, and points 1 and 5 from Rapid´s blog.
The world statment was already proven to mean Universe and not planet, not to mention the Prana World exists in another reality.
7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Show me another Millenium Item even remotely comparable to it.
This was already debunked before, but you have to remember that this is two millenium items working together and were defeated by Game Mechanics and DUel Monsters, which has already proven to be legit on the NEW Duel Disk point in this very thread.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
Goku was tier 4-B and jumped to 3-A in a movie. And the difference between the both is literally trillions of times.
This was already adressed on the previous post you probably didnt read or flat out ignored.
Not to mention this does not contradict the series in any shape or form.
Not to mention you ignored the Homura Akemi example, who had a even bigger jump from tier 7 to literally 2-A in one movie, and it literally happened on the last 5 minutes of it. Why was that considered for Madokaverse and not Yugioh?
It looks like you might have a personal reason to deny this jump...
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level.
He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception.
It litearlly does, dude. The movie lead up to it.
Not to mention you cannot just dismiss Movies just because you dont like the character being upgraded by it.
And, again, already adressed.
8.) Beyond Multi-Planet range =/= affecting stars and the problem here is nothing shows stars and galaxies being consumed. We're ASUMMING they are just because of beyond planetary range, which is no where near enough and silly.
No, we are not assuming, we are confirming it by the Prana World being on another reality and scaling from previous feats in the same movie. And the Purple Prana consuming all the way from the Prana world to earth easly imply UNIVERSAL if not MULTI UNIVERSAL Destructive Capacity.
Doesnt matter much if he cant even reach them TO effect them. I could say I wouldnt spare the universe as many times as I want, im not a universal so its meaningless.
Again, no evidence behind this assumption you claim.
Diva has already been shown capable of affecting the Prana Plane, which is alredy Multi Universal and the darn purple consuming ring of death was ENDING on the stadium.
>Affecting the plana plane
Which is a different reality and can very well be in the same boat. We see the red clouds covering what the Dark Plana destroys so its very logical to say the planet would be covered by it.
So, do we agree it was affecting the Prana plane? If so, this jumps to Multi Universal.
And, the pillars on the Prana Plane were being erased and affected by it (As proven by this scan)
>BFR people.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
Very possible, but not proven not backed up by the movie itself nor its scans nor statments.
9.) Plana abilities I actually agree with yes. In fact it may have even more but nows not the time to discuss hax.
Thank god.
10.) It is a memory as I clarified below. Joey outright says it via power of friendship. Ill continue this there as you likely have thoughts about it.
The japanese version says nothing of the power of friendship, just that its bonds cannot be broken, as Rapid literally translated the Jpaanese dub to you last thread.
11.) Card lores, which have 0 evidence of those flashu entrances being legit. Theres a difference between saying, in lore, someone can destroy a universe and how flashy effects depict that. All the lore proves is they can destroy a universe. HOW its done is debatable.
CARD LORE PAGES ARE ALREADY A THING ON THIS WIKIA.
If you dont like them, do a Content Revision Thread, not to mention, this is a extra section thing.
Part 3
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Evidnece counters: *EVIDENCE
12.) And they turn golden and get destroyed because of his return to the world, as the prophecy dicates throughtout the whole movie. Has nothing to do with power. And that isnt even reversing effects.
Yes they are since they are literally reversing the already Multi-Universal Prana with the return of the pharaoh. It was before the Kids lost their powers, so it is a feat made by him and no one else.
It doesnt. Destroying the purple plana streams isnt reversing it and he destroyed them via his return, not power in any definition of the word. The reversal doesnt even start until Kaiba, Joey and everyone return along with the city and everything else. Your mixing up "reversal".
I do this you are the one mixing stuff up, friend.
Even if it was not reversing the people, the buildings, the Multi-Universal dimension and its effects were, which is still a Multi Universal feat.
Also, strange you say not becausw of the prophecy, which literally dictates his return.
13.) That literally changes nothing. The system is being used TOGETHER with his duel disk, meaning Kaibas duel disk is explicty designed to run his technplogy network unlike any of the other duel disks. The fact his duel disk is being used as the catylst of the system to run his technology makes it incredibly different. Being separate doesnt mean much when they're used together.
IT LITERALLY SAYS TOGETHER. It means they can be used separate from each other, and the New Duel Disk had already been proven to be resistant to Prana.
14.) And how exactly does this change anything? Given the dimension he was in was strictly designed by memories, it only makes sense that Joey would use a memory too strong for Diva to erase, hence the " bond" Joey in the sub spoke of. Still power of friendship crap nontheless.
It proves that this is no "Power of Friendship" nor "Atem did it" feat.
It means that his will is strong enough to resist Base Diva´s BFR, but not strong enough against DARK DIVA´s.
This took me 2 hours to write and review.
Most of your arguments disregard the previous rebuttal Rapid did, and i want the STAFF TO KNOW THIS. PLEASE DO READ RAPID´S REPLY AND COMPARE IT TO KUKUI´S REPLY,
At least recognize that most of what you said has been debunked and not even DARE to imply either me or Rapid were debunked somewhere else, if so, i beg the devs to just end this debate here because of your fallacies exposed in this 4 part debunk-al.
12.) And they turn golden and get destroyed because of his return to the world, as the prophecy dicates throughtout the whole movie. Has nothing to do with power. And that isnt even reversing effects.
Yes they are since they are literally reversing the already Multi-Universal Prana with the return of the pharaoh. It was before the Kids lost their powers, so it is a feat made by him and no one else.
It doesnt. Destroying the purple plana streams isnt reversing it and he destroyed them via his return, not power in any definition of the word. The reversal doesnt even start until Kaiba, Joey and everyone return along with the city and everything else. Your mixing up "reversal".
I do this you are the one mixing stuff up, friend.
Even if it was not reversing the people, the buildings, the Multi-Universal dimension and its effects were, which is still a Multi Universal feat.
Also, strange you say not becausw of the prophecy, which literally dictates his return.
13.) That literally changes nothing. The system is being used TOGETHER with his duel disk, meaning Kaibas duel disk is explicty designed to run his technplogy network unlike any of the other duel disks. The fact his duel disk is being used as the catylst of the system to run his technology makes it incredibly different. Being separate doesnt mean much when they're used together.
IT LITERALLY SAYS TOGETHER. It means they can be used separate from each other, and the New Duel Disk had already been proven to be resistant to Prana.
14.) And how exactly does this change anything? Given the dimension he was in was strictly designed by memories, it only makes sense that Joey would use a memory too strong for Diva to erase, hence the " bond" Joey in the sub spoke of. Still power of friendship crap nontheless.
It proves that this is no "Power of Friendship" nor "Atem did it" feat.
It means that his will is strong enough to resist Base Diva´s BFR, but not strong enough against DARK DIVA´s.
This took me 2 hours to write and review.
Most of your arguments disregard the previous rebuttal Rapid did, and i want the STAFF TO KNOW THIS. PLEASE DO READ RAPID´S REPLY AND COMPARE IT TO KUKUI´S REPLY,
At least recognize that most of what you said has been debunked and not even DARE to imply either me or Rapid were debunked somewhere else, if so, i beg the devs to just end this debate here because of your fallacies exposed in this 4 part debunk-al.
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I agree with Boy.
You didnt adress most of my previous post.
I want the staff to look that both replies.
You didnt adress most of my previous post.
I want the staff to look that both replies.
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Is this staff only?
I just wanted to ask if it isnt contradictory that Kukui hasnt posted any of his own scans but Rapid and Boy have to?
I just wanted to ask if it isnt contradictory that Kukui hasnt posted any of his own scans but Rapid and Boy have to?
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1.) Okay. That was to clarify i'd post my rebuttals earlier than expected.
2.) Alright, enough of this. First of all, "thats fine and dandy" isn't disrespectful, its to clarify its fine to say [insert here] but there are also flaws that needed to be addressed. Im sorry, but you need to stop saying everything I say is disrespectful at this point just because of a disagreement.
Second of all, this still goes back to my previous counter. "Strongest in the universe" means nothing. It doesnt complement a thing, that only tells us its a strong power (which it is no doubt but even then). Frieza is a very relevant example as its to show "strongest in the universe" doesnt warrant any tier. Yugioh isnt an exception. And I don't know why your assuming the Plana Quantam Cube is "far stronger" when the only reason it even destroyed anything was because of the Millenium Rings power being used as an amp. And another circular point I just covered before, You can have range far beyond Planetary but also far below Universal for reasons I clarified already.
3.) No, no you don't because unless im missing something, its common sense. It's not about making stuff up. It's about clarifying that material doesnt need 100% of everything spoon-fed to the people who view it, as they can put 2 and 2 together to reach a conclusion on [insert here]. Also, I never claimed "recanted=reversal" so that small bit is pointless to address here. That said, it does not even matter at this point and i'll explain why in later points.
>Making up events
No. Its something called putting 2 and 2 together to figure it out yourself. Do you really need a statement on what would happen if the universe is destroyed? No you wouldnt as thats obvious. While details are definitely important don't get me wrong, not everything needs 100% spoon-fed information. Besides which, as far as the reversing stuff goes, this would only apply to the destruction the Plana was conveying on the world, which is strictly last minute and unplanned for (Diva certainly didnt intend to take the Millenium Ring to grow stronger, he was possessed by it). So getting a statement that the destruction would be reversed via the Plana's destruction at the last second would be impossible.
>Removal, not reversal
No offense, but this doesn't matter honestly, because we strictly see the reverse happen when the Dark Plana Cube self-destructs, which Atem definitely didn't cause. Your confusing the 2 instances greatly. And even then, reversing destruction =/= reversing BFR.
>Dragon Ball Example not applicable
It is. Its an example of how a power is connected to a persons prescence which has 0 thing to do with their own power. The process of how those powers leave changes nothing. They still do so in the end. And by saying "instant" for Dragon Ball but not the Plana, your helping my own case about how the Plana was slowly vanishing instead of instantly. Will address more below.
>Ignored Outlier rebuttal
I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this.
>Proof for Plana Weakness
Your again mixing stuff up. First of all, my point on it having a weakness had NOTHING to do with reversal in any way. It was addressing its removal. Dont confuse the 2. Second of all, the very prophecy itself dicatates the Plana is removed when the Pharaoh returns. That is a flat out 100% weakness.
>Proof for Plana vanishing
The kids literally lost it after Diva was defeated by Atem. That flat out shows you it took that long for the Plana to leave. And once again, the prophecy dicates the Plana is removed when Atem returns. The dark plana vanishing, the cube taking time to self-destruct, all evidence or else it would have been immediate. And no offense, asking this kind of request is sort of silly. Take Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach for example. When using the Final Getsuga Tensho on Aizen, it stresses more than many times that using that move would take away Ichigos Shinigami powers. And yet, Ichigo didn't immediately lose his powers. Not even quickly. It took at least weeks or even months for his Shinigami powers to be completely lost. This is absolutely no different. Diva and the others losing the Plana signs from the foreheads is nothing more than to show the Plana is completely gone, and if you claim otherwise, you need to prove the Plana wasn't slowly vanishing away at the sight. Burden of Proof isnt on me.
>OOE
Debunked above. And those "OOE" aren't even an exact order as they blatently leave stuff out. And a liar? Never made a defintion of recant, you assumed I did. Don't make random accusations like that.
>No-brainer that Atem did it
Or the Cube self-destructing actively caused it instead? As its literally shown? Otherwise Kaiba, Mokuba, Joey, the rest of the people and the city would have been restored before the cube was destroyed. So no, Atem didnt cause it. The cube's destruction did. Your mixing Atem destroying the Plana via his return with the Cube's destruction reversing the effects to restore the town.
>Proven not to be an outlier
Debunked. You flat out ignored 2 paragraphs addressing it to suit yourself.
>AP applied to reversal feats
Since literally when? Examples at least would show this isnt made up at the last second. And ignoring the last part as that is only shade to be thrown around.
7.) Im going to need a statement on where Kaiba said that. And no, Yugi didnt do that "before the rules we're explained". He blatently decided to learn as he played the format. 2 different things.
8.) Lie. Unless you mean something else (which of course ill take back) the movie opens up to Kaiba and Mokuba searching for the Millenium Puzzle pieces.
9.) Looking the same =/= is, Yugi addressing it when having absolutely 0 knowledge on Kaiba's technology means very little, so no resistance to anyone but Kaiba.
>Already explained to grant resistance.
To Kaiba's, no one else. And yes it is a simple case of PIS since if they lost, everything would be gone. No different than Ichigo lasting against Yhwach, Team 7 against Kaguya, Creation Trio against Arceus, its all PIS so the bad guy doesnt insta stomp. Blatent sake of plot and its a common trope in all fiction.
>No timeframes for the Duel Disks
Also tells me you didnt read my full reply, because I did. Fully and completely. Read again. And im not the one who needs to prove they're different. Your side is the one claiming they are the same to get the same resistances so you need to prove they are the same. Burden of Proof is on you.
>Reversing the effects before the Plana was destroyed
No, he was destroying them. Clarified this already
>Scan of Pharaoh restoring the town
If you mean the golden beams of light coming down and the town coming back, that isnt Atems doing. That was from the Cube being destroyed which releases that golden light. Atem isnt even in that scan so its absolute speculation to say he directly did so.
>Lie
Um no? Look up any transformation with Atem and Yugi and still say otherwise. This is nothing but a fancy flashy moment of Atem ressurecting in Yugi. Unless your seriously going to say that energy is 3-A, which proves more its an outlier when the series has never done anything like this until now all of a sudden?
>Scan says hi
The same scan caused by the Cube? Not Atem?
>World statement proven to be universe
By a "compliment" statement that doesnt remotely justify tiering? Yeah no.
>Millenium Item
Reread again. I said SOMEWHAT false. Individually, the Plana is clearly better. But when taking into account the erasure feat, it required the amping power of the Millenium Ring. That definitely shows the Plana can't do that on its own or else it'd be pointless.
>Goku jumping from 4-B to 3-A
Because of actual power boosts and new forms like SSG. Atem has none of this. However, this is not the place to fully argue this. Have a problem with it? Make a CRT.
>Doesnt contradict the series
It does, since Atem before DsoD never remotely held a candle to 3-A no matter how many times you say otherwise.
>Homura Akemi
Ignored it because I know nothing of the Madokaverse this person comes from to save my life. But if they have stuff going for them like DBZ/DBS does, then my answer for this is the same. And if you question it, again, make a CRT. Also, you seem to be confused on something here. Jumping entire tiers isnt an outlier as long as it makes sense and is consistent. It makes literally 0 sense for Atem to suddenly do a casual feat your claiming is entire tiers beyond tiers above the enemies he's faced in the show.
>The movie led up to it.
It didn't. It led up to his return, not a random-ass pull of a feat thats blatently beyond the scope of his power before the movie. 2 totally different instances.
Also, stop accusing me of not liking something because I disagree with you. You were warned by this many times.
>Plana world
Attacking 2 realities because of already multi-universal range doesnt mean anything. If it didnt reach stars in one, it didnt in the other. Clutter of assumptions. No mutli-universal attack range comes from this unless theres evidence of the Dark Plana breeching the realities and space-time instead of just attacking in both simuntaneously while keeping them separate. Theres a difference between breeching realities to attack 2 planets at once and just attacking 2 planets at once while the realities are separate. The former is Multi-Planet range, the latter is just planet.
>Affecting the Plana Plane
Still isn't Multi-Universal. You need proof the Plana world is even a universe and that it was fully destroyed and even then evidence of the worlds space-times being breeched to link them together is needed. Only then would it beyond Universal range (Universal+ at best, not Multi-Universal).
Covering a planets sky in red clouds is no where remotely near Multi-Universal range or even Universal+
>Very possible but not proven
It is. 1000% Shown. The darkness covers the skies and people are getting BFR'd. Perfect Evidence.
>'Thank God"
I'll tell you one more time for the sake of keeping you out of trouble. STOP. WITH. THE. RUDE. TONE. You were warned about this and yet you keep it up consistently.
>Bonds
Which involves memories, since its a dimension made literally out of them....
>Card lore
Again, your missing the point of my example. Lore can specifiy someone can destroy [insert here] and thats absolutely fine. But that doesn't prove HOW said destruction would be done. It's too speculative. Its no different than if a Pokemon was stated to eat mountains. Its a mountain level feat but that doesnt cover how said feat is completed. Very big difference you need to be aware of.
EVIDENCE Counters:
1.) Plana streams disapeering from the light =/= them being reversed.
2.) The dimension first off isnt Multi-Universal sized as there arent Multiple Universes in it. Second of all, it still isnt a feat for Atem for reasons already clarified.
3.) Can be used separately =/= it was. Given this is Kaiba we're talking about, him suddenly not using his duel disk to run literally all his technology with a single thought is very strange for him to do. Evidence of this is needed and there is no proof Kaiba's Duel Disk by itself can resist the Plana's BFR. A duel disk cannot suddenly release energy by itself, not unless it was connected with other technology, namely Kaibas. And that still doesnt mean any run of the mill duel disk can do the same. Or else everyone would get resistances, which is a huge no and makes it more outlierish.
4.) It proves nothing. It is still very much power of friendship that happened at random and never again. Common trope in fiction.
Trying to beg the staff over and over to read and agree with your stuff doesnt help you. Especially when some of those very staff have longed agreed with me on this. And given your consistent disrespect here, in the last thread, and the blog, and have had done no effort to change it, that makes things even worse im afraid.
2.) Alright, enough of this. First of all, "thats fine and dandy" isn't disrespectful, its to clarify its fine to say [insert here] but there are also flaws that needed to be addressed. Im sorry, but you need to stop saying everything I say is disrespectful at this point just because of a disagreement.
Second of all, this still goes back to my previous counter. "Strongest in the universe" means nothing. It doesnt complement a thing, that only tells us its a strong power (which it is no doubt but even then). Frieza is a very relevant example as its to show "strongest in the universe" doesnt warrant any tier. Yugioh isnt an exception. And I don't know why your assuming the Plana Quantam Cube is "far stronger" when the only reason it even destroyed anything was because of the Millenium Rings power being used as an amp. And another circular point I just covered before, You can have range far beyond Planetary but also far below Universal for reasons I clarified already.
3.) No, no you don't because unless im missing something, its common sense. It's not about making stuff up. It's about clarifying that material doesnt need 100% of everything spoon-fed to the people who view it, as they can put 2 and 2 together to reach a conclusion on [insert here]. Also, I never claimed "recanted=reversal" so that small bit is pointless to address here. That said, it does not even matter at this point and i'll explain why in later points.
>Making up events
No. Its something called putting 2 and 2 together to figure it out yourself. Do you really need a statement on what would happen if the universe is destroyed? No you wouldnt as thats obvious. While details are definitely important don't get me wrong, not everything needs 100% spoon-fed information. Besides which, as far as the reversing stuff goes, this would only apply to the destruction the Plana was conveying on the world, which is strictly last minute and unplanned for (Diva certainly didnt intend to take the Millenium Ring to grow stronger, he was possessed by it). So getting a statement that the destruction would be reversed via the Plana's destruction at the last second would be impossible.
>Removal, not reversal
No offense, but this doesn't matter honestly, because we strictly see the reverse happen when the Dark Plana Cube self-destructs, which Atem definitely didn't cause. Your confusing the 2 instances greatly. And even then, reversing destruction =/= reversing BFR.
>Dragon Ball Example not applicable
It is. Its an example of how a power is connected to a persons prescence which has 0 thing to do with their own power. The process of how those powers leave changes nothing. They still do so in the end. And by saying "instant" for Dragon Ball but not the Plana, your helping my own case about how the Plana was slowly vanishing instead of instantly. Will address more below.
>Ignored Outlier rebuttal
I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this.
>Proof for Plana Weakness
Your again mixing stuff up. First of all, my point on it having a weakness had NOTHING to do with reversal in any way. It was addressing its removal. Dont confuse the 2. Second of all, the very prophecy itself dicatates the Plana is removed when the Pharaoh returns. That is a flat out 100% weakness.
>Proof for Plana vanishing
The kids literally lost it after Diva was defeated by Atem. That flat out shows you it took that long for the Plana to leave. And once again, the prophecy dicates the Plana is removed when Atem returns. The dark plana vanishing, the cube taking time to self-destruct, all evidence or else it would have been immediate. And no offense, asking this kind of request is sort of silly. Take Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach for example. When using the Final Getsuga Tensho on Aizen, it stresses more than many times that using that move would take away Ichigos Shinigami powers. And yet, Ichigo didn't immediately lose his powers. Not even quickly. It took at least weeks or even months for his Shinigami powers to be completely lost. This is absolutely no different. Diva and the others losing the Plana signs from the foreheads is nothing more than to show the Plana is completely gone, and if you claim otherwise, you need to prove the Plana wasn't slowly vanishing away at the sight. Burden of Proof isnt on me.
>OOE
Debunked above. And those "OOE" aren't even an exact order as they blatently leave stuff out. And a liar? Never made a defintion of recant, you assumed I did. Don't make random accusations like that.
>No-brainer that Atem did it
Or the Cube self-destructing actively caused it instead? As its literally shown? Otherwise Kaiba, Mokuba, Joey, the rest of the people and the city would have been restored before the cube was destroyed. So no, Atem didnt cause it. The cube's destruction did. Your mixing Atem destroying the Plana via his return with the Cube's destruction reversing the effects to restore the town.
>Proven not to be an outlier
Debunked. You flat out ignored 2 paragraphs addressing it to suit yourself.
>AP applied to reversal feats
Since literally when? Examples at least would show this isnt made up at the last second. And ignoring the last part as that is only shade to be thrown around.
7.) Im going to need a statement on where Kaiba said that. And no, Yugi didnt do that "before the rules we're explained". He blatently decided to learn as he played the format. 2 different things.
8.) Lie. Unless you mean something else (which of course ill take back) the movie opens up to Kaiba and Mokuba searching for the Millenium Puzzle pieces.
9.) Looking the same =/= is, Yugi addressing it when having absolutely 0 knowledge on Kaiba's technology means very little, so no resistance to anyone but Kaiba.
>Already explained to grant resistance.
To Kaiba's, no one else. And yes it is a simple case of PIS since if they lost, everything would be gone. No different than Ichigo lasting against Yhwach, Team 7 against Kaguya, Creation Trio against Arceus, its all PIS so the bad guy doesnt insta stomp. Blatent sake of plot and its a common trope in all fiction.
>No timeframes for the Duel Disks
Also tells me you didnt read my full reply, because I did. Fully and completely. Read again. And im not the one who needs to prove they're different. Your side is the one claiming they are the same to get the same resistances so you need to prove they are the same. Burden of Proof is on you.
>Reversing the effects before the Plana was destroyed
No, he was destroying them. Clarified this already
>Scan of Pharaoh restoring the town
If you mean the golden beams of light coming down and the town coming back, that isnt Atems doing. That was from the Cube being destroyed which releases that golden light. Atem isnt even in that scan so its absolute speculation to say he directly did so.
>Lie
Um no? Look up any transformation with Atem and Yugi and still say otherwise. This is nothing but a fancy flashy moment of Atem ressurecting in Yugi. Unless your seriously going to say that energy is 3-A, which proves more its an outlier when the series has never done anything like this until now all of a sudden?
>Scan says hi
The same scan caused by the Cube? Not Atem?
>World statement proven to be universe
By a "compliment" statement that doesnt remotely justify tiering? Yeah no.
>Millenium Item
Reread again. I said SOMEWHAT false. Individually, the Plana is clearly better. But when taking into account the erasure feat, it required the amping power of the Millenium Ring. That definitely shows the Plana can't do that on its own or else it'd be pointless.
>Goku jumping from 4-B to 3-A
Because of actual power boosts and new forms like SSG. Atem has none of this. However, this is not the place to fully argue this. Have a problem with it? Make a CRT.
>Doesnt contradict the series
It does, since Atem before DsoD never remotely held a candle to 3-A no matter how many times you say otherwise.
>Homura Akemi
Ignored it because I know nothing of the Madokaverse this person comes from to save my life. But if they have stuff going for them like DBZ/DBS does, then my answer for this is the same. And if you question it, again, make a CRT. Also, you seem to be confused on something here. Jumping entire tiers isnt an outlier as long as it makes sense and is consistent. It makes literally 0 sense for Atem to suddenly do a casual feat your claiming is entire tiers beyond tiers above the enemies he's faced in the show.
>The movie led up to it.
It didn't. It led up to his return, not a random-ass pull of a feat thats blatently beyond the scope of his power before the movie. 2 totally different instances.
Also, stop accusing me of not liking something because I disagree with you. You were warned by this many times.
>Plana world
Attacking 2 realities because of already multi-universal range doesnt mean anything. If it didnt reach stars in one, it didnt in the other. Clutter of assumptions. No mutli-universal attack range comes from this unless theres evidence of the Dark Plana breeching the realities and space-time instead of just attacking in both simuntaneously while keeping them separate. Theres a difference between breeching realities to attack 2 planets at once and just attacking 2 planets at once while the realities are separate. The former is Multi-Planet range, the latter is just planet.
>Affecting the Plana Plane
Still isn't Multi-Universal. You need proof the Plana world is even a universe and that it was fully destroyed and even then evidence of the worlds space-times being breeched to link them together is needed. Only then would it beyond Universal range (Universal+ at best, not Multi-Universal).
Covering a planets sky in red clouds is no where remotely near Multi-Universal range or even Universal+
>Very possible but not proven
It is. 1000% Shown. The darkness covers the skies and people are getting BFR'd. Perfect Evidence.
>'Thank God"
I'll tell you one more time for the sake of keeping you out of trouble. STOP. WITH. THE. RUDE. TONE. You were warned about this and yet you keep it up consistently.
>Bonds
Which involves memories, since its a dimension made literally out of them....
>Card lore
Again, your missing the point of my example. Lore can specifiy someone can destroy [insert here] and thats absolutely fine. But that doesn't prove HOW said destruction would be done. It's too speculative. Its no different than if a Pokemon was stated to eat mountains. Its a mountain level feat but that doesnt cover how said feat is completed. Very big difference you need to be aware of.
EVIDENCE Counters:
1.) Plana streams disapeering from the light =/= them being reversed.
2.) The dimension first off isnt Multi-Universal sized as there arent Multiple Universes in it. Second of all, it still isnt a feat for Atem for reasons already clarified.
3.) Can be used separately =/= it was. Given this is Kaiba we're talking about, him suddenly not using his duel disk to run literally all his technology with a single thought is very strange for him to do. Evidence of this is needed and there is no proof Kaiba's Duel Disk by itself can resist the Plana's BFR. A duel disk cannot suddenly release energy by itself, not unless it was connected with other technology, namely Kaibas. And that still doesnt mean any run of the mill duel disk can do the same. Or else everyone would get resistances, which is a huge no and makes it more outlierish.
4.) It proves nothing. It is still very much power of friendship that happened at random and never again. Common trope in fiction.
Trying to beg the staff over and over to read and agree with your stuff doesnt help you. Especially when some of those very staff have longed agreed with me on this. And given your consistent disrespect here, in the last thread, and the blog, and have had done no effort to change it, that makes things even worse im afraid.
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Also, can people stop with the "hasnt posted scans stuff"?
When we literally established the most I can provide are timeframes, which ive had done?
When we literally established the most I can provide are timeframes, which ive had done?
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Okay, my turn.
But, from just seeing it, it is far too small compared to everything Megaboy had to write, are you dismissing topics again?
But, from just seeing it, it is far too small compared to everything Megaboy had to write, are you dismissing topics again?
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No. Because some of that stuff was so simple I was able to counter in at best a sentence.
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Confident, arent you?
Not to mention, that, by skimming thru it, is saw nultiple "i adressed it" when Megaboy missed it.
Mind adding those paragraphs you are talking about in all "you ignored the previous rebuttal" questions?
Not to mention, that, by skimming thru it, is saw nultiple "i adressed it" when Megaboy missed it.
Mind adding those paragraphs you are talking about in all "you ignored the previous rebuttal" questions?
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Yeah, this is unnaceptable.
"Because some of that stuff was so simple I was able to counter in at best a sentence. "
Is not only arrogant, its dismissive and insulting.
I want the staff to look at that man´s attitute right now.
"I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this. "
I dont have any clue what you are even talking about. You disregarded my argument.
Can the staff end this discussion alredy? If he keeps disregarding our replies, this is meaningless and dumb.
I demand him to be taken off the discussion and the upgrades to be dicussed by someone else.
Data also disagreed, why not him? At least he didnt insult us in this manner.
"Because some of that stuff was so simple I was able to counter in at best a sentence. "
Is not only arrogant, its dismissive and insulting.
I want the staff to look at that man´s attitute right now.
"I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this. "
I dont have any clue what you are even talking about. You disregarded my argument.
Can the staff end this discussion alredy? If he keeps disregarding our replies, this is meaningless and dumb.
I demand him to be taken off the discussion and the upgrades to be dicussed by someone else.
Data also disagreed, why not him? At least he didnt insult us in this manner.
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For the love of God guys, try and be civil. How many times do you have to be told? Seriously.
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How many times do we have to warn you guys to try and stay civil before it gets to you?
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>Confident
No, stop thinking everytime I say something like this its because im cocky. Im not. Its me only saying whats needed to be said and move on. This is commom debate tactics that you seem to have knowledge about.
>I addressed it.
I did. The 2 paragraphs where I explained why an outlier exists here?
"7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level. He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception."
3 Paragraphs now that Im looking at it again. You say I ignored your outlier rebuttal? Literally whats quoted here IS the rebuttal.
No, stop thinking everytime I say something like this its because im cocky. Im not. Its me only saying whats needed to be said and move on. This is commom debate tactics that you seem to have knowledge about.
>I addressed it.
I did. The 2 paragraphs where I explained why an outlier exists here?
"7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level. He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception."
3 Paragraphs now that Im looking at it again. You say I ignored your outlier rebuttal? Literally whats quoted here IS the rebuttal.
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@Kep and Ever
I literally didnt do anything this time. They're claiming im insulting, disrespecting, and disregarding their arguments and being over-confident when im not doing that here at all.
I literally didnt do anything this time. They're claiming im insulting, disrespecting, and disregarding their arguments and being over-confident when im not doing that here at all.
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1.) Okay. That was to clarify i'd post my rebuttals earlier than expected.
Wait, this is refering to POINT 1 of the discussion? Please organize your replies, Kukui.
2.) Alright, enough of this. First of all, "thats fine and dandy" isn't disrespectful, its to clarify its fine to say [insert here] but there are also flaws that needed to be addressed. Im sorry, but you need to stop saying everything I say is disrespectful at this point just because of a disagreement.
"That fine and dandy" is indeed a dismissive term. It can be used to disregard or diminish value to an argument.
For example "Sorry boss, i got into a car crash and that is why i couldnt deliver the reports!"
"Thats fine and dandy, but those reports must be sent by tomorrow or you are fired."
Second of all, this still goes back to my previous counter. "Strongest in the universe" means nothing. It doesnt complement a thing, that only tells us its a strong power (which it is no doubt but even then).
It complements the other World statements, i tought this was already explained.
Frieza is a very relevant example as its to show "strongest in the universe" doesnt warrant any tier. Yugioh isnt an exception.
Erm...It does.
Because i never used it to prove a tier, as Boy said.
It was to compliment other statements and to prove it wasnt a one time thing.
And I don't know why your assuming the Plana Quantam Cube is "far stronger" when the only reason it even destroyed anything was because of the Millenium Rings power being used as an amp.
Wrong, it already BFRed people into existence, the Dimensional barrier it creates is quantifiable just like the Tier 3-C feats for Phineas and Ferb.
And another circular point I just covered before, You can have range far beyond Planetary but also far below Universal for reasons I clarified already.
If Planetary is far too low for the "World" statement, then it means universal, this is also backed up by Atem´s return and various points of my blog.
3.) No, no you don't because unless im missing something, its common sense. It's not about making stuff up. It's about clarifying that material doesnt need 100% of everything spoon-fed to the people who view it,
Well, if the evidence i posted is obvious enough and it clearly supports my arguments, then it doesnt need to be spoonfed...
But, well, you continue to disregard them, even direct quotes from the film.
as they can put 2 and 2 together to reach a conclusion on [insert here]. Also, I never claimed "recanted=reversal" so that small bit is pointless to address here. That said, it does not even matter at this point and i'll explain why in later points.
It pretty much does, tho.
The conclusion of the events was obvious at best thanks to the scans, and since ihave not hidden anything from you (aka. gave you a link to the movie), i have no reason to doubt the feats in question.
>Making up events
'No. Its something called putting 2 and 2 together to figure it out yourself. Do you really need a statement on what would happen if the universe is destroyed? No you wouldnt as thats obvious. 'While details are definitely important don't get me wrong, not everything needs 100% spoon-fed information.
Sorry, but youd have to prove your Logic for it to be valid.
I can put 2 and 2 in a different way to yours, and well, i dont think i have to mention how ridiculous is to put your wn personal conclusion as a fact.
The movie shows you how it affects the world. The movie States what will happen if Atem returns.
If you want to logic other stuff, youd have to prove em.
Besides which, as far as the reversing stuff goes, this would only apply to the destruction the Plana was conveying on the world, which is strictly last minute and unplanned for (Diva certainly didnt intend to take the Millenium Ring to grow stronger, he was possessed by it). So getting a statement that the destruction would be reversed via the Plana's destruction at the last second would be impossible.
Not really my problem dude, you argued that, you have to prove that.
>Removal, not reversal
No offense, but this doesn't matter honestly, because we strictly see the reverse happen when the Dark Plana Cube self-destructs, which Atem definitely didn't cause. Your confusing the 2 instances greatly. And even then, reversing destruction =/= reversing BFR.
Now Atem was getting BFR? Nice "logic".
Regardless, this was already adressed in my previous post, the instant Atem returns, it starts nullifying Prana with the beams of light. Since Prana is already Multi Universal in Dimension range, it is either Multi Universal or Universal AP.
>Dragon Ball Example not applicable
It is.
It is not.
Dende and the Dragon Balls exist a the same time, but Atem dueled Dark Diva and desdtroyed the cube two minutes before the prana left the kids.
So...Yeah. No dice here.
>Ignored Outlier rebuttal
I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this.
Then post em.
>Proof for Plana Weakness
Your again mixing stuff up. First of all, my point on it having a weakness had NOTHING to do with reversal in any way. It was addressing its removal. Dont confuse the 2. Second of all, the very prophecy itself dicatates the Plana is removed when the Pharaoh returns. That is a flat out 100% weakness.
Again, Order of Events and REMOVAL, not REVERSAL.
>Proof for Plana vanishing
The kids literally lost it after Diva was defeated by Atem. That flat out shows you it took that long for the Plana to leave. And once again, the prophecy dicates the Plana is removed when Atem returns.
Yeah, but according to the prophecy you like so much, it would dissapear the instant Atem returns.
The dark plana vanishing, the cube taking time to self-destruct, all evidence or else it would have been immediate. And no offense, asking this kind of request is sort of silly. Take Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach for example. When using the Final Getsuga Tensho on Aizen, it stresses more than many times that using that move would take away Ichigos Shinigami powers. And yet, Ichigo didn't immediately lose his powers. Not even quickly. It took at least weeks or even months for his Shinigami powers to be completely lost. This is absolutely no different.
This is a claim, youd have to prove it.
The Prophecy says the Prana would dissapear as soon as the pharaoh dissapeared. while it does go away, the reversal of the effects happens first, implying direct involvement by Atem.
Diva and the others losing the Plana signs from the foreheads is nothing more than to show the Plana is completely gone, and if you claim otherwise, you need to prove the Plana wasn't slowly vanishing away at the sight. Burden of Proof isnt on me.
It pretty much is.
And i can prove it wasnt.
The prophecy says all of Prana would leave the instant Atem returns, and i have all statements of such in POINT 1 of my blog, the burden of proof is on your court.
>OOE
Debunked above.
Oh boy. Here it is.
Sorry for that outburst, but i knew youd relly to this cheap tactic again. You have not, never have debunked the Order of Events. It is shown in the movie, ive defended it countless times in these 4 days, and here we are.
I would want the staff to note this before this goes on any longer, it is no longer even logical to continue discussing this will you, like Mega said.
Part 1/2
Wait, this is refering to POINT 1 of the discussion? Please organize your replies, Kukui.
2.) Alright, enough of this. First of all, "thats fine and dandy" isn't disrespectful, its to clarify its fine to say [insert here] but there are also flaws that needed to be addressed. Im sorry, but you need to stop saying everything I say is disrespectful at this point just because of a disagreement.
"That fine and dandy" is indeed a dismissive term. It can be used to disregard or diminish value to an argument.
For example "Sorry boss, i got into a car crash and that is why i couldnt deliver the reports!"
"Thats fine and dandy, but those reports must be sent by tomorrow or you are fired."
Second of all, this still goes back to my previous counter. "Strongest in the universe" means nothing. It doesnt complement a thing, that only tells us its a strong power (which it is no doubt but even then).
It complements the other World statements, i tought this was already explained.
Frieza is a very relevant example as its to show "strongest in the universe" doesnt warrant any tier. Yugioh isnt an exception.
Erm...It does.
Because i never used it to prove a tier, as Boy said.
It was to compliment other statements and to prove it wasnt a one time thing.
And I don't know why your assuming the Plana Quantam Cube is "far stronger" when the only reason it even destroyed anything was because of the Millenium Rings power being used as an amp.
Wrong, it already BFRed people into existence, the Dimensional barrier it creates is quantifiable just like the Tier 3-C feats for Phineas and Ferb.
And another circular point I just covered before, You can have range far beyond Planetary but also far below Universal for reasons I clarified already.
If Planetary is far too low for the "World" statement, then it means universal, this is also backed up by Atem´s return and various points of my blog.
3.) No, no you don't because unless im missing something, its common sense. It's not about making stuff up. It's about clarifying that material doesnt need 100% of everything spoon-fed to the people who view it,
Well, if the evidence i posted is obvious enough and it clearly supports my arguments, then it doesnt need to be spoonfed...
But, well, you continue to disregard them, even direct quotes from the film.
as they can put 2 and 2 together to reach a conclusion on [insert here]. Also, I never claimed "recanted=reversal" so that small bit is pointless to address here. That said, it does not even matter at this point and i'll explain why in later points.
It pretty much does, tho.
The conclusion of the events was obvious at best thanks to the scans, and since ihave not hidden anything from you (aka. gave you a link to the movie), i have no reason to doubt the feats in question.
>Making up events
'No. Its something called putting 2 and 2 together to figure it out yourself. Do you really need a statement on what would happen if the universe is destroyed? No you wouldnt as thats obvious. 'While details are definitely important don't get me wrong, not everything needs 100% spoon-fed information.
Sorry, but youd have to prove your Logic for it to be valid.
I can put 2 and 2 in a different way to yours, and well, i dont think i have to mention how ridiculous is to put your wn personal conclusion as a fact.
The movie shows you how it affects the world. The movie States what will happen if Atem returns.
If you want to logic other stuff, youd have to prove em.
Besides which, as far as the reversing stuff goes, this would only apply to the destruction the Plana was conveying on the world, which is strictly last minute and unplanned for (Diva certainly didnt intend to take the Millenium Ring to grow stronger, he was possessed by it). So getting a statement that the destruction would be reversed via the Plana's destruction at the last second would be impossible.
Not really my problem dude, you argued that, you have to prove that.
>Removal, not reversal
No offense, but this doesn't matter honestly, because we strictly see the reverse happen when the Dark Plana Cube self-destructs, which Atem definitely didn't cause. Your confusing the 2 instances greatly. And even then, reversing destruction =/= reversing BFR.
Now Atem was getting BFR? Nice "logic".
Regardless, this was already adressed in my previous post, the instant Atem returns, it starts nullifying Prana with the beams of light. Since Prana is already Multi Universal in Dimension range, it is either Multi Universal or Universal AP.
>Dragon Ball Example not applicable
It is.
It is not.
Dende and the Dragon Balls exist a the same time, but Atem dueled Dark Diva and desdtroyed the cube two minutes before the prana left the kids.
So...Yeah. No dice here.
>Ignored Outlier rebuttal
I didnt....at all...reread it. I literally made 2 entire paragraphs about this.
Then post em.
>Proof for Plana Weakness
Your again mixing stuff up. First of all, my point on it having a weakness had NOTHING to do with reversal in any way. It was addressing its removal. Dont confuse the 2. Second of all, the very prophecy itself dicatates the Plana is removed when the Pharaoh returns. That is a flat out 100% weakness.
Again, Order of Events and REMOVAL, not REVERSAL.
>Proof for Plana vanishing
The kids literally lost it after Diva was defeated by Atem. That flat out shows you it took that long for the Plana to leave. And once again, the prophecy dicates the Plana is removed when Atem returns.
Yeah, but according to the prophecy you like so much, it would dissapear the instant Atem returns.
The dark plana vanishing, the cube taking time to self-destruct, all evidence or else it would have been immediate. And no offense, asking this kind of request is sort of silly. Take Ichigo Kurosaki from Bleach for example. When using the Final Getsuga Tensho on Aizen, it stresses more than many times that using that move would take away Ichigos Shinigami powers. And yet, Ichigo didn't immediately lose his powers. Not even quickly. It took at least weeks or even months for his Shinigami powers to be completely lost. This is absolutely no different.
This is a claim, youd have to prove it.
The Prophecy says the Prana would dissapear as soon as the pharaoh dissapeared. while it does go away, the reversal of the effects happens first, implying direct involvement by Atem.
Diva and the others losing the Plana signs from the foreheads is nothing more than to show the Plana is completely gone, and if you claim otherwise, you need to prove the Plana wasn't slowly vanishing away at the sight. Burden of Proof isnt on me.
It pretty much is.
And i can prove it wasnt.
The prophecy says all of Prana would leave the instant Atem returns, and i have all statements of such in POINT 1 of my blog, the burden of proof is on your court.
>OOE
Debunked above.
Oh boy. Here it is.
Sorry for that outburst, but i knew youd relly to this cheap tactic again. You have not, never have debunked the Order of Events. It is shown in the movie, ive defended it countless times in these 4 days, and here we are.
I would want the staff to note this before this goes on any longer, it is no longer even logical to continue discussing this will you, like Mega said.
Part 1/2
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And those "OOE" aren't even an exact order as they blatently leave stuff out. And a liar? Never made a defintion of recant, you assumed I did. Don't make random accusations like that.
Yes you did, you said that recant would mean the effects would be reversed.
And, i also claim you are a liar.
I posted the direct definition in my blog, and Mega did it again in his reply.
Or, are you saying your definition of recanted is better than the one i linked?
>No-brainer that Atem did it
Or the Cube self-destructing actively caused it instead? As its literally shown? Otherwise Kaiba, Mokuba, Joey, the rest of the people and the city would have been restored before the cube was destroyed. So no, Atem didnt cause it. The cube's destruction did. Your mixing Atem destroying the Plana via his return with the Cube's destruction reversing the effects to restore the town.
I think you are the one mixing stuff up, we didnt argue about the destruction of the cube, but Atem causing the beams of light reverse the effects of Prana, which is the 3-A feat.
>Proven not to be an outlier
Debunked. You flat out ignored 2 paragraphs addressing it to suit yourself.
Post em-
>AP applied to reversal feats
Since literally when? Examples at least would show this isnt made up at the last second. And ignoring the last part as that is only shade to be thrown around.
Hell, the Voltron Princess girl got a Planetary AP for healing an entire planet, reversal, creation and more are considered AP feats in here.
TO reverse something, you have to have the same power to do so.
Hell, remember Goku vs Beerus? Goku was only able to counter it by using the same force.
7.) Im going to need a statement on where Kaiba said that. And no, Yugi didnt do that "before the rules we're explained". He blatently decided to learn as he played the format. 2 different things.
Learning as he played means he didnt know the rules, so...debunked.
8.) Lie. Unless you mean something else (which of course ill take back) the movie opens up to Kaiba and Mokuba searching for the Millenium Puzzle pieces.
The movie starts by showing us that the Yugioh world takes place within a sphere in the multiverse.
9.) Looking the same =/= is, Yugi addressing it when having absolutely 0 knowledge on Kaiba's technology means very little, so no resistance to anyone but Kaiba.
>Already explained to grant resistance.
To Kaiba's, no one else. And yes it is a simple case of PIS since if they lost, everything would be gone. No different than Ichigo lasting against Yhwach, Team 7 against Kaguya, Creation Trio against Arceus, its all PIS so the bad guy doesnt insta stomp. Blatent sake of plot and its a common trope in all fiction.
Using Ichigo as aan example has nothing to do with anything.
And, no. Kaiba was only getting BFRed the moment he lost at Duel Monsters, game mechanics of not, it is logical because of the order of events.
Yugi wasnt erased because of the new duel disk, the movie flat out states so.
>No timeframes for the Duel Disks
Also tells me you didnt read my full reply, because I did. Fully and completely. Read again. And im not the one who needs to prove they're different. Your side is the one claiming they are the same to get the same resistances so you need to prove they are the same. Burden of Proof is on you.
THe burden of proof is on me?
Oh geez, its not like it is stated to be the same, act the same and resist prana the same way.
I mean, its not rocket science.
>Reversing the effects before the Plana was destroyed
No, he was destroying them. Clarified this already
>Scan of Pharaoh restoring the tow
If you mean the golden beams of light coming down and the town coming back, that isnt Atems doing. That was from the Cube being destroyed which releases that golden light. Atem isnt even in that scan so its absolute speculation to say he directly did so.
All of them are debunked by the scan of Atem Returning. While the people returned once the cube exploted, Atem was reversing the prana itself as it was engulfing the world, and that is a fact based on the evidence ive provided. I dont see any sans of your own.
>Lie
Um no? Look up any transformation with Atem and Yugi and still say otherwise. This is nothing but a fancy flashy moment of Atem ressurecting in Yugi. Unless your seriously going to say that energy is 3-A, which proves more its an outlier when the series has never done anything like this until now all of a sudden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6N-dHooxc
Look at all the transformations across the anime (Which i assume are the same on the manga.)
None of them are even remotely similar to Dsod´s.
Debunked.
>Scan says hi
The same scan caused by the Cube? Not Atem?
Check the timeframe.
https://youtu.be/-I77so2-pto?t=48s
It is literally as Atem returns.
Evidence contradicts your claim, aka debunked.
>World statement proven to be universe
By a "compliment" statement that doesnt remotely justify tiering? Yeah no.
"Yeah no"
Great argument.
>Millenium Item
Reread again. I said SOMEWHAT false. Individually, the Plana is clearly better. But when taking into account the erasure feat, it required the amping power of the Millenium Ring. That definitely shows the Plana can't do that on its own or else it'd be pointless.
Somewhat false?
It was ampted by the Millenium Ring and corrupted by it, yes.
But nothing more.
>Goku jumping from 4-B to 3-A
Because of actual power boosts and new forms like SSG. Atem has none of this. However, this is not the place to fully argue this. Have a problem with it? Make a CRT.
What i am saying is that you are saying it shouldnt be counted just because of its a movie or the lack of a "form" if anything, it just shows that Atem´s spirit if far strongesr than before. And, the movie was leading up to it.
>Doesnt contradict the series
It does, since Atem before DsoD never remotely held a candle to 3-A no matter how many times you say otherwise.
Already explained before.
>Homura Akemi
Ignored it because I know nothing of the Madokaverse this person comes from to save my life. But if they have stuff going for them like DBZ/DBS does, then my answer for this is the same. And if you question it, again, make a CRT. Also, you seem to be confused on something here. Jumping entire tiers isnt an outlier as long as it makes sense and is consistent. It makes literally 0 sense for Atem to suddenly do a casual feat your claiming is entire tiers beyond tiers above the enemies he's faced in the show.
Im not questioning it, you are.
Thats why i am comparing Atem to other characters that also gained an inmense boosts in power in the last 10 minutes of the film.
>The movie led up to it.
It didn't. It led up to his return, not a random-ass pull of a feat thats blatently beyond the scope of his power before the movie. 2 totally different instances.
Also, stop accusing me of not liking something because I disagree with you. You were warned by this many times.
It did as explaind above, and even if it wasnt, it was shown to be affected by Duel Monsters and Game mechanics, so, there is that also backing up 3-A atem
Well, it was directly becuase of this point, but because you disregard evidence and every instance that seems obvious for an upgrade are "debunked" by saying PIS or using your own logic or headcannon, so yeah...it does seem a bit biased against YGO.
>Plana world
Attacking 2 realities because of already multi-universal range doesnt mean anything. If it didnt reach stars in one, it didnt in the other.
Who says it didnt reach stars? I said it was AT LEAST city level because it was not limited by buildings.
THe purple circle in the sky could mean it already covered the stars and even entire galaxies, you have no evidence that it didnt.
THe only "sure" thing is that it is At least City Level all the way to Multi Universal, which do cover the darn stars.
Clutter of assumptions. No mutli-universal attack range comes from this unless theres evidence of the Dark Plana breeching the realities and space-time instead of just attacking in both simuntaneously while keeping them separate. Theres a difference between breeching realities to attack 2 planets at once and just attacking 2 planets at once while the realities are separate. The former is Multi-Planet range, the latter is just planet.
>Affecting the Plana Plane
Still isn't Multi-Universal. You need proof the Plana world is even a universe and that it was fully destroyed and even then evidence of the worlds space-times being breeched to link them together is needed. Only then would it beyond Universal range (Universal+ at best, not Multi-Universal).
This was already adressed on the last response.
Since the Prana plane is ANOTHER REALITY and not ANOTHER PLANET, the argument was that if it was another PLANET, the range would be MULTI PLANETARY and thus would invalid the PLANET possiblity from the WORLD statements.
But, the Prana plane is another reality. So it is Multi Universal, pretty much confirming that it meanst Universal, if not more.
Covering a planets sky in red clouds is no where remotely near Multi-Universal range or even Universal+
THe limit is not shown, so this argument stands.
>Very possible but not prove
It is. 1000% Shown. The darkness covers the skies and people are getting BFR'd. Perfect Evidence.
Cover doesnt mean it wasnt being destroyed. That was the argument, stop derrailing my argument.
>'Thank God"
I'll tell you one more time for the sake of keeping you out of trouble. STOP. WITH. THE. RUDE. TONE. You were warned about this and yet you keep it up consistently.
Says mr. Will end this quickly, and "Because some of that stuff was so simple I was able to counter in at best a sentence. "
You should stop with the rude tone as well.
>Bonds
Which involves memories, since its a dimension made literally out of them....
Are you implying allt Bonds are memories? Because there is also friendship, love, dependency, familiar bonds, etc, etc.
Aka, no argument.
>Card lore
Again, your missing the point of my example. Lore can specifiy someone can destroy [insert here] and thats absolutely fine. But that doesn't prove HOW said destruction would be done. It's too speculative. Its no different than if a Pokemon was stated to eat mountains. Its a mountain level feat but that doesnt cover how said feat is completed. Very big difference you need to be aware of.
Like i said, do a CRT if you dont agree with the Card Lore pages on this Wikia, this has nothing to do with 3-A Prana.
Part 2/3 I sitll need to do the evidence counters.
Yes you did, you said that recant would mean the effects would be reversed.
And, i also claim you are a liar.
I posted the direct definition in my blog, and Mega did it again in his reply.
Or, are you saying your definition of recanted is better than the one i linked?
>No-brainer that Atem did it
Or the Cube self-destructing actively caused it instead? As its literally shown? Otherwise Kaiba, Mokuba, Joey, the rest of the people and the city would have been restored before the cube was destroyed. So no, Atem didnt cause it. The cube's destruction did. Your mixing Atem destroying the Plana via his return with the Cube's destruction reversing the effects to restore the town.
I think you are the one mixing stuff up, we didnt argue about the destruction of the cube, but Atem causing the beams of light reverse the effects of Prana, which is the 3-A feat.
>Proven not to be an outlier
Debunked. You flat out ignored 2 paragraphs addressing it to suit yourself.
Post em-
>AP applied to reversal feats
Since literally when? Examples at least would show this isnt made up at the last second. And ignoring the last part as that is only shade to be thrown around.
Hell, the Voltron Princess girl got a Planetary AP for healing an entire planet, reversal, creation and more are considered AP feats in here.
TO reverse something, you have to have the same power to do so.
Hell, remember Goku vs Beerus? Goku was only able to counter it by using the same force.
7.) Im going to need a statement on where Kaiba said that. And no, Yugi didnt do that "before the rules we're explained". He blatently decided to learn as he played the format. 2 different things.
Learning as he played means he didnt know the rules, so...debunked.
8.) Lie. Unless you mean something else (which of course ill take back) the movie opens up to Kaiba and Mokuba searching for the Millenium Puzzle pieces.
The movie starts by showing us that the Yugioh world takes place within a sphere in the multiverse.
9.) Looking the same =/= is, Yugi addressing it when having absolutely 0 knowledge on Kaiba's technology means very little, so no resistance to anyone but Kaiba.
>Already explained to grant resistance.
To Kaiba's, no one else. And yes it is a simple case of PIS since if they lost, everything would be gone. No different than Ichigo lasting against Yhwach, Team 7 against Kaguya, Creation Trio against Arceus, its all PIS so the bad guy doesnt insta stomp. Blatent sake of plot and its a common trope in all fiction.
Using Ichigo as aan example has nothing to do with anything.
And, no. Kaiba was only getting BFRed the moment he lost at Duel Monsters, game mechanics of not, it is logical because of the order of events.
Yugi wasnt erased because of the new duel disk, the movie flat out states so.
>No timeframes for the Duel Disks
Also tells me you didnt read my full reply, because I did. Fully and completely. Read again. And im not the one who needs to prove they're different. Your side is the one claiming they are the same to get the same resistances so you need to prove they are the same. Burden of Proof is on you.
THe burden of proof is on me?
Oh geez, its not like it is stated to be the same, act the same and resist prana the same way.
I mean, its not rocket science.
>Reversing the effects before the Plana was destroyed
No, he was destroying them. Clarified this already
>Scan of Pharaoh restoring the tow
If you mean the golden beams of light coming down and the town coming back, that isnt Atems doing. That was from the Cube being destroyed which releases that golden light. Atem isnt even in that scan so its absolute speculation to say he directly did so.
All of them are debunked by the scan of Atem Returning. While the people returned once the cube exploted, Atem was reversing the prana itself as it was engulfing the world, and that is a fact based on the evidence ive provided. I dont see any sans of your own.
>Lie
Um no? Look up any transformation with Atem and Yugi and still say otherwise. This is nothing but a fancy flashy moment of Atem ressurecting in Yugi. Unless your seriously going to say that energy is 3-A, which proves more its an outlier when the series has never done anything like this until now all of a sudden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6N-dHooxc
Look at all the transformations across the anime (Which i assume are the same on the manga.)
None of them are even remotely similar to Dsod´s.
Debunked.
>Scan says hi
The same scan caused by the Cube? Not Atem?
Check the timeframe.
https://youtu.be/-I77so2-pto?t=48s
It is literally as Atem returns.
Evidence contradicts your claim, aka debunked.
>World statement proven to be universe
By a "compliment" statement that doesnt remotely justify tiering? Yeah no.
"Yeah no"
Great argument.
>Millenium Item
Reread again. I said SOMEWHAT false. Individually, the Plana is clearly better. But when taking into account the erasure feat, it required the amping power of the Millenium Ring. That definitely shows the Plana can't do that on its own or else it'd be pointless.
Somewhat false?
It was ampted by the Millenium Ring and corrupted by it, yes.
But nothing more.
>Goku jumping from 4-B to 3-A
Because of actual power boosts and new forms like SSG. Atem has none of this. However, this is not the place to fully argue this. Have a problem with it? Make a CRT.
What i am saying is that you are saying it shouldnt be counted just because of its a movie or the lack of a "form" if anything, it just shows that Atem´s spirit if far strongesr than before. And, the movie was leading up to it.
>Doesnt contradict the series
It does, since Atem before DsoD never remotely held a candle to 3-A no matter how many times you say otherwise.
Already explained before.
>Homura Akemi
Ignored it because I know nothing of the Madokaverse this person comes from to save my life. But if they have stuff going for them like DBZ/DBS does, then my answer for this is the same. And if you question it, again, make a CRT. Also, you seem to be confused on something here. Jumping entire tiers isnt an outlier as long as it makes sense and is consistent. It makes literally 0 sense for Atem to suddenly do a casual feat your claiming is entire tiers beyond tiers above the enemies he's faced in the show.
Im not questioning it, you are.
Thats why i am comparing Atem to other characters that also gained an inmense boosts in power in the last 10 minutes of the film.
>The movie led up to it.
It didn't. It led up to his return, not a random-ass pull of a feat thats blatently beyond the scope of his power before the movie. 2 totally different instances.
Also, stop accusing me of not liking something because I disagree with you. You were warned by this many times.
It did as explaind above, and even if it wasnt, it was shown to be affected by Duel Monsters and Game mechanics, so, there is that also backing up 3-A atem
Well, it was directly becuase of this point, but because you disregard evidence and every instance that seems obvious for an upgrade are "debunked" by saying PIS or using your own logic or headcannon, so yeah...it does seem a bit biased against YGO.
>Plana world
Attacking 2 realities because of already multi-universal range doesnt mean anything. If it didnt reach stars in one, it didnt in the other.
Who says it didnt reach stars? I said it was AT LEAST city level because it was not limited by buildings.
THe purple circle in the sky could mean it already covered the stars and even entire galaxies, you have no evidence that it didnt.
THe only "sure" thing is that it is At least City Level all the way to Multi Universal, which do cover the darn stars.
Clutter of assumptions. No mutli-universal attack range comes from this unless theres evidence of the Dark Plana breeching the realities and space-time instead of just attacking in both simuntaneously while keeping them separate. Theres a difference between breeching realities to attack 2 planets at once and just attacking 2 planets at once while the realities are separate. The former is Multi-Planet range, the latter is just planet.
>Affecting the Plana Plane
Still isn't Multi-Universal. You need proof the Plana world is even a universe and that it was fully destroyed and even then evidence of the worlds space-times being breeched to link them together is needed. Only then would it beyond Universal range (Universal+ at best, not Multi-Universal).
This was already adressed on the last response.
Since the Prana plane is ANOTHER REALITY and not ANOTHER PLANET, the argument was that if it was another PLANET, the range would be MULTI PLANETARY and thus would invalid the PLANET possiblity from the WORLD statements.
But, the Prana plane is another reality. So it is Multi Universal, pretty much confirming that it meanst Universal, if not more.
Covering a planets sky in red clouds is no where remotely near Multi-Universal range or even Universal+
THe limit is not shown, so this argument stands.
>Very possible but not prove
It is. 1000% Shown. The darkness covers the skies and people are getting BFR'd. Perfect Evidence.
Cover doesnt mean it wasnt being destroyed. That was the argument, stop derrailing my argument.
>'Thank God"
I'll tell you one more time for the sake of keeping you out of trouble. STOP. WITH. THE. RUDE. TONE. You were warned about this and yet you keep it up consistently.
Says mr. Will end this quickly, and "Because some of that stuff was so simple I was able to counter in at best a sentence. "
You should stop with the rude tone as well.
>Bonds
Which involves memories, since its a dimension made literally out of them....
Are you implying allt Bonds are memories? Because there is also friendship, love, dependency, familiar bonds, etc, etc.
Aka, no argument.
>Card lore
Again, your missing the point of my example. Lore can specifiy someone can destroy [insert here] and thats absolutely fine. But that doesn't prove HOW said destruction would be done. It's too speculative. Its no different than if a Pokemon was stated to eat mountains. Its a mountain level feat but that doesnt cover how said feat is completed. Very big difference you need to be aware of.
Like i said, do a CRT if you dont agree with the Card Lore pages on this Wikia, this has nothing to do with 3-A Prana.
Part 2/3 I sitll need to do the evidence counters.
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EVIDENCE Counters:
1.) Plana streams disapeering from the light =/= them being reversed.
THey were being pushed back and reversed, i think it is pretty obvious.
2.) The dimension first off isnt Multi-Universal sized as there arent Multiple Universes in it. Second of all, it still isnt a feat for Atem for reasons already clarified.
It is a feat for Atem as explained above, the range of Dark Diva´s dimension is Multi Universal, and Atem affected and reversed an atack of this range, it is pretty obvious and clear cut, the only one who hasnt posted proof of their claims nor debated this is you. Only you.
3.) Can be used separately =/= it was. Given this is Kaiba we're talking about, him suddenly not using his duel disk to run literally all his technology with a single thought is very strange for him to do. Evidence of this is needed and there is no proof Kaiba's Duel Disk by itself can resist the Plana's BFR. A duel disk cannot suddenly release energy by itself, not unless it was connected with other technology, namely Kaibas. And that still doesnt mean any run of the mill duel disk can do the same. Or else everyone would get resistances, which is a huge no and makes it more outlierish.
Yugi didnt have the Duel Links System, which shows that the new duel disks are resistant to Prana on their own. Like i said before...
The scans do not lie.
4.) It proves nothing. It is still very much power of friendship that happened at random and never again. Common trope in fiction.
I literally translated the Japanese Dialogue for you, it is pretty much undebunkable that that was what he said.
"Common trope in fiction" Funny YOU say that when you deny the World meaning Universe even when proven by the OoE and my blog.
Trying to beg the staff over and over to read and agree with your stuff doesnt help you. Especially when some of those very staff have longed agreed with me on this. And given your consistent disrespect here, in the last thread, and the blog, and have had done no effort to change it, that makes things even worse im afraid.
Do they? If anything, the staff has gotten sick of you not posting proof of your claims and your passive aggresive behaviour.
1.) Plana streams disapeering from the light =/= them being reversed.
THey were being pushed back and reversed, i think it is pretty obvious.
2.) The dimension first off isnt Multi-Universal sized as there arent Multiple Universes in it. Second of all, it still isnt a feat for Atem for reasons already clarified.
It is a feat for Atem as explained above, the range of Dark Diva´s dimension is Multi Universal, and Atem affected and reversed an atack of this range, it is pretty obvious and clear cut, the only one who hasnt posted proof of their claims nor debated this is you. Only you.
3.) Can be used separately =/= it was. Given this is Kaiba we're talking about, him suddenly not using his duel disk to run literally all his technology with a single thought is very strange for him to do. Evidence of this is needed and there is no proof Kaiba's Duel Disk by itself can resist the Plana's BFR. A duel disk cannot suddenly release energy by itself, not unless it was connected with other technology, namely Kaibas. And that still doesnt mean any run of the mill duel disk can do the same. Or else everyone would get resistances, which is a huge no and makes it more outlierish.
Yugi didnt have the Duel Links System, which shows that the new duel disks are resistant to Prana on their own. Like i said before...
The scans do not lie.
4.) It proves nothing. It is still very much power of friendship that happened at random and never again. Common trope in fiction.
I literally translated the Japanese Dialogue for you, it is pretty much undebunkable that that was what he said.
"Common trope in fiction" Funny YOU say that when you deny the World meaning Universe even when proven by the OoE and my blog.
Trying to beg the staff over and over to read and agree with your stuff doesnt help you. Especially when some of those very staff have longed agreed with me on this. And given your consistent disrespect here, in the last thread, and the blog, and have had done no effort to change it, that makes things even worse im afraid.
Do they? If anything, the staff has gotten sick of you not posting proof of your claims and your passive aggresive behaviour.
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I agree woth Kukui.
You two are wrong, debunked and probably socks. lol
You two are wrong, debunked and probably socks. lol
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Uh what?
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Well would you look at that.
I have not been debunked nor am a sock. Where did you get that from?
I have not been debunked nor am a sock. Where did you get that from?
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But why? Those two have been DEBUNKED by Kukui.
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- Thread starter
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Looks like this thread already got a victim and he wasn't even a part of it.
I don't understand why the reactions to all of these arguments have to be so hostile, you can just make your argument and leave out the whole quips or instigating. It's just a secondhand circle of violence that comes with the circle of arguments.
I don't understand why the reactions to all of these arguments have to be so hostile, you can just make your argument and leave out the whole quips or instigating. It's just a secondhand circle of violence that comes with the circle of arguments.
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1.) Yes that.
2.) MAJOR False Equalivancy. Assuming someones boss would suddenly be in the mood to fire someone like that for arguments sake, the victim still has a job to do and cannot suddenly dismiss it because of other stuff. Even then, both cases are in 2 entirely different contexts. All im simply saying, by "fine and dandy", is that what you claim is fine but there are still holes in it the way I see it and must still be addressed. Not at all disrespect. You need to stop pulling this card every time a rebuttal comes up.
3.) Yes and I clarified how it doesnt compliment it since "strongest in the universe" means nothing.
4.) Same thing as point 3.
5.) Thats...no where near the same thing. What does Phineas and Ferb's ratings have to do with this in any way, shape or form? And BFRing someone into existence? Don't inflate a feat to make it sound more impressive and its still not AP. I dont even know what this point here is trying to specify.
6.) Even more NLF from you. Planetary being too low still doesnt mean Universal. It can be anything from Interplantery to Galactic instead of the highest end you want it to be.
7.) Stop acting like "scans=untouchable". It doesnt. Even Ever has already clarified this and yet you still continue to press foward on this conception.
8.) You hid the fact that the Cube's destruction was the direct cause of the reversal to Kaiba, Joey, Mokuba and everything else. I wouldnt call this as not hiding anything.
9.) Own personal conclusion? You mean how literally everyone on this site does and it gets accepted? If so, then yes its personal conclusions.
10.) Actually it is your problem because your the one asking for a statement on a last minute instance that would be impossible to make a statement for. AKA, the erasure from the Plana.
11.) My point never remotely said Atem was getting BFR'd. Your own assumptions and misconceptions. And absolutely not. Range has nothing to do with AP and Atem wasnt causing the Plana's destruction with his power. But by his return dicated by the prophecy. Even then, outlier. And I wouldnt keep relying on your blog since, with all the counters made, its beyond pointless to bring up at this point.
12.) Literally changes nothing but one power lasting longer than the other. The end result is they vanish via the people they are connected to. It's a point to prove they are connected. You keep missing this point.
13.) Literally did post them before your new reply. And its not my problem you ignored them to suit yourself. Simply re-read through to find it.
14.) Which were debunked and those OOE are again not even true as they left factors out to lie.
15.) No evidence for that. It stating it would disappear via Atems return doesnt mean it would instantly vanish and it clearly didnt as shown in the last moments of the movie. Theres a difference between Instantly starting to vanish and instantly vanishing. Only the former is shown for the Plana.
16.) AGAIN, its not reversal. Its removal. Stop mixing the 2. And I dont even need to prove it when the moments show it doesnt immediately vanish. Matter of fact, its kinda up to you to prove the power did immediately vanish instead of weakening over time to the point of nothing left. The latter is far more common then the former. And its still not a direct involvement from Atem and its still an Outlier no matter how hard you say otherwise.
17.) None of those statements say instant. They say "we'll lose our powers" and as such. Not at all clarifying instant and the final battle proves it. Try again here.
>Blog
Which is irrelevant at this point. Making a blog doesnt make you untouchable to rebuttals, so stop acting high and mighty on this.
18.) I have as I already pointed out. Your "OOE" has blatent factors misinterpreted and purposely left out that its not even credible to rely on at this point.
>Unlogical to debate me
Then leave. Your own fault for staying here, no ones asking you to discuss. If you don't like it, you can go at any time.
19.) Yeah because clearly removing a power thats actively in use would remove its effects. Thus, recant.
Honestly, call me a liar if you want. Yours and Megas word against everyone else. Wont change a thing and I know im not a liar and I don't need your approval of it.
20.) But those still aren't reverses, its removal. So your the one mixing stuff up. And guess what? Still an outlier.
21.) Addressed above. Find them on your own as I posted them 2x now. Not doint it a 3rd time.
22.) The difference between this and that is Alullra is healing the damages done to the planet with her literal energy, Existence Erasure is strictly hax based. Adding in the fact that Allura isnt just 5-B because of this but by fighting off other 5-B opponents. Reversing hax means just that, reversing hax. Same thing for Goku and Beerus. Goku fought back with the same level of power to cancel out the level of power Beerus used. Atem did nothing like what the formers have done, even taking this "feat" at face value.
23.) And he found out those rules via playing. Not debunked. Plus with the screen that told him about dimension dueling, he very likely read how to infuse his spirit energy. Reading =/= Experiencing.
24.) Flashy effects that have 0 barring on the movie. No one confirming it, no one pointing to it, not even a reference, So that "multiverse" claim is 100% non-canon until you can give me someone saying something that even points to it. We don't use flashy openings as feats and we're not starting with Yugioh.
25.) It does. Its to show Ichigo fighting off everything Yhwach does is PIS and sake of plot so the hero stops the villian. Again, common trope. Or else everything would end, which goes against the story and would never be allowed. And no, if its game mechanics, its game mechanics and will NOT be accepted here.
>Yugi stated to not die because of the duel disk
No where is that stated.
26.) Stated to be the same? They aren't. A duel disk that runs the basis of technlogy and a duel disk thats just to play a game arent the same. Act the same =/= being the same (and this likely refers to the dueling aspects since, well, they're duel disks) and they dont resist the Plana the same way.
27.) Which doesnt debunk anything since his return caused removal of the Plana streams, not reversal. Scans are unceccsary when my link to his return FLAT OUT shows this. Also good to see you admitted Kaiba and the others return wasnt caused by Atem, so that gives my argument more lee-way.
28.) Which proves more its an outlier and they release flashy effects. They're different from DsoD because of simple stuff like animation effect between medias? Debunked.
>Literally as Atem returned
Removal. Not reversal. Clarified this 100000 times already.
29.) So no counter to the "strongest in the universe" stuff which still means nothing toward tiering? Good
30.) Which is what my point literally dictates.....the Plana cannot do this feat without a Millenium Items power to amp it, hence its an amp
31.) Im not saying its not stronger because of a movie, but because this "feat" is a random last-minute ass pull that suddenly far surpasses ANYTHING Atem has ever done in the history fo Yugioh. That is the clear cut defintion of Outlier. And how would his spirit be stronger than before? He did no training, he had no power boost, amp or anything. Even more of a reason why him doing this is beyond Outlierish.
32.) Which I debunked
33.) Your the one who first brought the DB Tier jumping in the first place so your the one who doesnt approve of it if nothing else. And those other characters get the ratings because they actually have something to support the consistency and legitimatcy of their feats. Atem doesnt.
34.) Game mechanics and dueling mechanics is no where remotely close to a justification of 3-A. Especially when the person your defending has never dueled again until he came last minute and left. Not even any training to justify this.
>Biased
Which im not as I explained already. Whether you accept this or not is no ones problem but your own. If I disagree, I have the right to disagree and defend it. Nothing wrong with that.
35.) At least City Level makes this even worse and remember im arguing against both you and Mega. If you didnt argue it, then he did.
>Purple cloud
Or that meant it covered the sky, preventing stars from being seen, and worked its way to destroy everything else. Your the one claiming they did cover Stars and Galaxies, so prove it. Burden or Proof or vastly invalid.
36.) It being in an alternate reality doesnt change much. Again, this was covered by my reply to this point. The attack range is only better than Planet if the planets from both realities were connected to be hit by the same attack. If the attack doesnt exceed planetary in both separate worlds, its still only planetary in each.
>Limit isnt shown
NO. LIMITS. FALLACY.
37.) This point has 0 thing to do with it being/not being destroyed, which clearly it was.
38.) Neither are rude tones. Your are at this point simply getting into your feelings over simple rebuttals that I explained many times now. Im sorry, but thats what its come to.
39.) In that dimension made strictly made out of memories? Yes to a T.
40.) Still missed the point of this regarding Lores....
EVIDNECE Counters:
1.) Push back equals reverse now? Seriously?
2.) Not a feat as I explained, range still doesnt mean AP, and the Dark Plana never effected Multiple Universes. That is pure wank. And I like how you still pull the "scan card" when you know full well why I cannot post scans, only timeframes, which I have.
3.) And Yugi never resisted the BFR. Also, Mani saying "a duel disk" is clearly refering to Kaibas, a unique one and the only one ever to fight off BFR. Any more is NLF. Next.
4.) A bond that still correlates to memories when in a dimension strictly made out of them.
>World meaning Universe
Which needs extradoniary evidence that your flawed OOE and Blog is no where close to having.
5.) None of them have clarified that and they are specifically warning YOU and Mega. So nice try.
2.) MAJOR False Equalivancy. Assuming someones boss would suddenly be in the mood to fire someone like that for arguments sake, the victim still has a job to do and cannot suddenly dismiss it because of other stuff. Even then, both cases are in 2 entirely different contexts. All im simply saying, by "fine and dandy", is that what you claim is fine but there are still holes in it the way I see it and must still be addressed. Not at all disrespect. You need to stop pulling this card every time a rebuttal comes up.
3.) Yes and I clarified how it doesnt compliment it since "strongest in the universe" means nothing.
4.) Same thing as point 3.
5.) Thats...no where near the same thing. What does Phineas and Ferb's ratings have to do with this in any way, shape or form? And BFRing someone into existence? Don't inflate a feat to make it sound more impressive and its still not AP. I dont even know what this point here is trying to specify.
6.) Even more NLF from you. Planetary being too low still doesnt mean Universal. It can be anything from Interplantery to Galactic instead of the highest end you want it to be.
7.) Stop acting like "scans=untouchable". It doesnt. Even Ever has already clarified this and yet you still continue to press foward on this conception.
8.) You hid the fact that the Cube's destruction was the direct cause of the reversal to Kaiba, Joey, Mokuba and everything else. I wouldnt call this as not hiding anything.
9.) Own personal conclusion? You mean how literally everyone on this site does and it gets accepted? If so, then yes its personal conclusions.
10.) Actually it is your problem because your the one asking for a statement on a last minute instance that would be impossible to make a statement for. AKA, the erasure from the Plana.
11.) My point never remotely said Atem was getting BFR'd. Your own assumptions and misconceptions. And absolutely not. Range has nothing to do with AP and Atem wasnt causing the Plana's destruction with his power. But by his return dicated by the prophecy. Even then, outlier. And I wouldnt keep relying on your blog since, with all the counters made, its beyond pointless to bring up at this point.
12.) Literally changes nothing but one power lasting longer than the other. The end result is they vanish via the people they are connected to. It's a point to prove they are connected. You keep missing this point.
13.) Literally did post them before your new reply. And its not my problem you ignored them to suit yourself. Simply re-read through to find it.
14.) Which were debunked and those OOE are again not even true as they left factors out to lie.
15.) No evidence for that. It stating it would disappear via Atems return doesnt mean it would instantly vanish and it clearly didnt as shown in the last moments of the movie. Theres a difference between Instantly starting to vanish and instantly vanishing. Only the former is shown for the Plana.
16.) AGAIN, its not reversal. Its removal. Stop mixing the 2. And I dont even need to prove it when the moments show it doesnt immediately vanish. Matter of fact, its kinda up to you to prove the power did immediately vanish instead of weakening over time to the point of nothing left. The latter is far more common then the former. And its still not a direct involvement from Atem and its still an Outlier no matter how hard you say otherwise.
17.) None of those statements say instant. They say "we'll lose our powers" and as such. Not at all clarifying instant and the final battle proves it. Try again here.
>Blog
Which is irrelevant at this point. Making a blog doesnt make you untouchable to rebuttals, so stop acting high and mighty on this.
18.) I have as I already pointed out. Your "OOE" has blatent factors misinterpreted and purposely left out that its not even credible to rely on at this point.
>Unlogical to debate me
Then leave. Your own fault for staying here, no ones asking you to discuss. If you don't like it, you can go at any time.
19.) Yeah because clearly removing a power thats actively in use would remove its effects. Thus, recant.
Honestly, call me a liar if you want. Yours and Megas word against everyone else. Wont change a thing and I know im not a liar and I don't need your approval of it.
20.) But those still aren't reverses, its removal. So your the one mixing stuff up. And guess what? Still an outlier.
21.) Addressed above. Find them on your own as I posted them 2x now. Not doint it a 3rd time.
22.) The difference between this and that is Alullra is healing the damages done to the planet with her literal energy, Existence Erasure is strictly hax based. Adding in the fact that Allura isnt just 5-B because of this but by fighting off other 5-B opponents. Reversing hax means just that, reversing hax. Same thing for Goku and Beerus. Goku fought back with the same level of power to cancel out the level of power Beerus used. Atem did nothing like what the formers have done, even taking this "feat" at face value.
23.) And he found out those rules via playing. Not debunked. Plus with the screen that told him about dimension dueling, he very likely read how to infuse his spirit energy. Reading =/= Experiencing.
24.) Flashy effects that have 0 barring on the movie. No one confirming it, no one pointing to it, not even a reference, So that "multiverse" claim is 100% non-canon until you can give me someone saying something that even points to it. We don't use flashy openings as feats and we're not starting with Yugioh.
25.) It does. Its to show Ichigo fighting off everything Yhwach does is PIS and sake of plot so the hero stops the villian. Again, common trope. Or else everything would end, which goes against the story and would never be allowed. And no, if its game mechanics, its game mechanics and will NOT be accepted here.
>Yugi stated to not die because of the duel disk
No where is that stated.
26.) Stated to be the same? They aren't. A duel disk that runs the basis of technlogy and a duel disk thats just to play a game arent the same. Act the same =/= being the same (and this likely refers to the dueling aspects since, well, they're duel disks) and they dont resist the Plana the same way.
27.) Which doesnt debunk anything since his return caused removal of the Plana streams, not reversal. Scans are unceccsary when my link to his return FLAT OUT shows this. Also good to see you admitted Kaiba and the others return wasnt caused by Atem, so that gives my argument more lee-way.
28.) Which proves more its an outlier and they release flashy effects. They're different from DsoD because of simple stuff like animation effect between medias? Debunked.
>Literally as Atem returned
Removal. Not reversal. Clarified this 100000 times already.
29.) So no counter to the "strongest in the universe" stuff which still means nothing toward tiering? Good
30.) Which is what my point literally dictates.....the Plana cannot do this feat without a Millenium Items power to amp it, hence its an amp
31.) Im not saying its not stronger because of a movie, but because this "feat" is a random last-minute ass pull that suddenly far surpasses ANYTHING Atem has ever done in the history fo Yugioh. That is the clear cut defintion of Outlier. And how would his spirit be stronger than before? He did no training, he had no power boost, amp or anything. Even more of a reason why him doing this is beyond Outlierish.
32.) Which I debunked
33.) Your the one who first brought the DB Tier jumping in the first place so your the one who doesnt approve of it if nothing else. And those other characters get the ratings because they actually have something to support the consistency and legitimatcy of their feats. Atem doesnt.
34.) Game mechanics and dueling mechanics is no where remotely close to a justification of 3-A. Especially when the person your defending has never dueled again until he came last minute and left. Not even any training to justify this.
>Biased
Which im not as I explained already. Whether you accept this or not is no ones problem but your own. If I disagree, I have the right to disagree and defend it. Nothing wrong with that.
35.) At least City Level makes this even worse and remember im arguing against both you and Mega. If you didnt argue it, then he did.
>Purple cloud
Or that meant it covered the sky, preventing stars from being seen, and worked its way to destroy everything else. Your the one claiming they did cover Stars and Galaxies, so prove it. Burden or Proof or vastly invalid.
36.) It being in an alternate reality doesnt change much. Again, this was covered by my reply to this point. The attack range is only better than Planet if the planets from both realities were connected to be hit by the same attack. If the attack doesnt exceed planetary in both separate worlds, its still only planetary in each.
>Limit isnt shown
NO. LIMITS. FALLACY.
37.) This point has 0 thing to do with it being/not being destroyed, which clearly it was.
38.) Neither are rude tones. Your are at this point simply getting into your feelings over simple rebuttals that I explained many times now. Im sorry, but thats what its come to.
39.) In that dimension made strictly made out of memories? Yes to a T.
40.) Still missed the point of this regarding Lores....
EVIDNECE Counters:
1.) Push back equals reverse now? Seriously?
2.) Not a feat as I explained, range still doesnt mean AP, and the Dark Plana never effected Multiple Universes. That is pure wank. And I like how you still pull the "scan card" when you know full well why I cannot post scans, only timeframes, which I have.
3.) And Yugi never resisted the BFR. Also, Mani saying "a duel disk" is clearly refering to Kaibas, a unique one and the only one ever to fight off BFR. Any more is NLF. Next.
4.) A bond that still correlates to memories when in a dimension strictly made out of them.
>World meaning Universe
Which needs extradoniary evidence that your flawed OOE and Blog is no where close to having.
5.) None of them have clarified that and they are specifically warning YOU and Mega. So nice try.
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Honestly at this point, if my rebuttls even remotely have any hostility in them, its because the opposing side is coming at me first and are making a horde of acusations against me trying to incrimadate me for something im not doing at all.Arigarmy said:
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Oh my god.
Kukui.
There were 9 points on my last reply.
But you, you separated it into 54 or so. I dont even know what you are refering to anymore.
Well, since i dont even know you are talking about, ill wait till you organize your reply.
Please.
Kukui.
There were 9 points on my last reply.
But you, you separated it into 54 or so. I dont even know what you are refering to anymore.
Well, since i dont even know you are talking about, ill wait till you organize your reply.
Please.
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Fine. But ill get it done by tomorrow. These rebuttals take time.
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1.) So...nothing new to say about it? Because, this really isnt a rebuttal.
2.) It is still dismissive and Megaboy felt hurt.
3.) Erm...I clearly said that it was meant to complement the other feats.
4.) Erm...I clearly said that it was meant to complement the other feats.
5.) I tihnk he was talking about the force field robot that covered the entire galaxy giving them 3-C ratings. In this scenario, Prana is covering tne entire universe.
6.) It is implied to be universal in the world statements, and since planetary is too low of an end, Universal is backed up even more.
7.) Well, scans might be toucheable, but word of mouth and personal logic sound way more toucheable than scans or timeframes, right?
8.) What are you talking about? I never hid that fact, it was just irrelevant to this. Yeah, the prana cube BFRed people, but Atem returning was reversing the effects on a collateral scale, so it would still scale to him. Bunch of people? Nothing compared to Atem´s feat.
9.) Well, you have not posted evidence of that fact, so...
10.) Wait, how is that my problem? You are the one who claimed it to be fact.
Like they say, fantastic claims need fantastic evidence.
11.) Outlier? Not at all as explained in my previous post.
My blog, aside from the Porbability Manipulation thing, stays intact. Ive already justified almost everything about it. I am even man enough to admit when i was wrong about probability manipulation and the range being Multi Universal instead of what i assumed to be just at least planetary.
12.) It does because it is not a valid equivalency between the both.
The point is, Atem did a thing before the prophecy could even take place. and that thing was not in the prophecy so...
Atem =/= Prophecy. At least until the kids lsot their powers after the fact.
Again, OoE.
13.) Funny how you ask me that, when you ignored most of my argument last reply. Anyways, it was already debunked by the OoE and Points 1 and 5 of my blog, so...
14.) Are you actually trying to argue that the Prana disseapeared BEFORE Corrupted Diva was defeated by Atem?.
15.) It wasnt even flickering, if the light was becoming weaker, or one of the kids was like "I feel prana leaving my body....!" youd have even a reasonable case, but...No you dont have that such quote now do you?
16.) Again? Oh yeah, you just dont accept when ive debunked you.
Anyways, this means that when Atem returned, it started reversing the overall cosmic damage it was doing to everything. You have to rememver the multi-universal dimension was ENDING as it was about to reach Yugi.
17.) Thats exactly what i am saying, Good to see we finally agree on something.
Atem returns first and then the prana leaves second. That implies that Atem did way more than just fulfil l the prophecy.
>Blog
Well, like i said above, i am honourable enough to admit i was wrong with Probability Manipulation and the range of Prana. But the rest is still in there and still stands to thisvery day.
18.) I mean, it is not that hard to understand, you claim that reversing the damage was also part of the prophecy, while it is not. As proven by point 1 of my blog were all the prophecy statements are.
>Unlogical to debate me
THe thing is, you are not discussing anymore. You just want to win and not take any compromises. Have you even admitted to a single error in this entire debate? Are you that self centered that you believe every single one of your points is correct to this point?
19.) It never says anything about "Removing its effects". Try again.
Well, you changed the definition of a word to suit your agenda...that is the dicitonary definition of lying.
20.) You are the one getting the two mixed up. Its not my fault you feel that way.
Also, it is not an outlier, as explained above.
21.) Isnt this quite ironic? Please. Ctrl + F and search "I was not debunked" and see how many times it finds it on your threads.
You are just repeating the same thing hoping that repetition will make your argumetn valid.
22.) While that is true, the point that reversing damage is still a cauntifiable feat that can be reversed with the same amount og energy. This feat is no different.
In this scenario, Dark Diva uses a cuantifiable feat to wipe up all of existence, and Atem reverses it with the same amount of force. Clear cut to me.
23.) He still did not knew the rules and still infused the cards with spirit energy. Soul Manipulation then?
24.) Oh my god, you are still going with the "opening to the movie is not canon to the movie" thing? Man, this was already dismissed in the previous point, why bring it up again?
25.) Even if it is a common thrope it doesnt mean you can apply it to anything you dont agree with, the new duel disk was stated to be resistant to prana. scan here.
>Yugi stated to not die because of the duel disk
Here.
26.) They run off the same technology, are called the same, is adressesed as the same as Yugi, Kaiba has no reason not to give Yugi one when facing Diva, etc. Not to mention you have yet to prove that the duel inks system even did anything aside from giving Kaiba digital cards. Hell, the prana friend says that the disk blocked the prana. If he said something like "The Duel Links System...is blocking the Prana?!" Youd have a point here, but you do not.
27.) Ive posted various videos of the return of Atem it isnt even funny. Everything shown on that clip is the exact same as the scans. It doesnt change the fact that the scans still show direct quotes from the film.
28.) Ive said the same thing to you. There is no objective doubt about this not being an outlier. It just doesnt make sense.
>Literally as Atem returned
Reversal, not removal. I think it should be clear by now.
29.) Not at all. Because it is already obvious that it was put there to compliment and show how the feat is not an outlier alongside the other world statements.
30.) Prana literally exists thanks to the Quantic Cube. Which was destroyed as the fight ended.
Hell, i think youve run into a wall.
If Atem defeating Diva is what caused the Corrupted Quantic Cube to explote it also escales anything prana can do to Atem directly.
Didnt expect that did ya?
31.) It was already explained above like how this was not an outlier at all. It is backed up by the evidence above, the world statments and direct scaling from the prophecy stablished in the reply above.
32.) Which I debunked (Yeah, the same thing back at you.)
33.) I am the one who aproves of it. You are the one saying that it is an outlier.
34.) Yes they are because they directly affect the functionality of Prana. Kaiba was only BFRed when he lost to Diva at duel monsters.
>Biased
Ignoring evidence and replying the same argument over and over is far above the regular Yugioh debater. This is an clear cut upgrade being dragged out by 4 days.
35.) We are not the same. But even if he did agreee to that, i did say that i was wrong about the scale on my blog. It is Multi Universal instead of Multi planetary or at least city level.
>Purple cloud
Yeah, i will prove that.
Even if you dont like scans, this one shows the Prana Multi universal dimension reaching another reality. This proves that is is above star level or galactic.
36.) it pretty much does since Prana has already been stated to be another reality i was the one who wrongly assumed it was just multi planetary.
>Limit isnt shown
Which i why i disagreed with you assuming it was just city level. That is flat out downplay.
37.) It was, because of Atem´s return.
38.) I see. It has come to direct insults. Thats sad to see in a debate.
39.) Yeah. But it wasnt memories what saved Jounochi
40.) I think you do not understand why i put this on the EXTRA SECTION, right? This is meant for a Deep Eyes Dragon page separate from Atem, Diva and the rest.
EVIDNECE Counters:
1.) Sorry for the miscomunication, it was just a way to say it.
But yes, it is reversal.
2.) Range being covered by an attack implies AP and force, remember, Prana covers the places it destroys completely. No different than the justificaiton of Phoneas and Ferb´s 3-C Tiering by covering the entirety of a galaxy.
3.) If Yugi didnt resist Prana, he would have been BFRed. And before you say its PIS, it is justified by having the new duel disk protect him from Prana.
4.) A bond that still correlates to memories when in a dimension strictly made out of them.
>World meaning Universe
World means universe based on the multiple world quotes, the multi universal range, Prana appearing in the prana reality, etc. I dont think it is too hard to understand at this point.
5.) This just proves you rely on people who come here just to say they agree with you, just like Charger here. Suspicious, isnt it?
Anyways, did you think i wouldnt suspect someone who had nothing with this like Adobe come here and say he agrees with me out of nowhere?
Dont think that this trick of yours will turn my argument down, Kukui.
2.) It is still dismissive and Megaboy felt hurt.
3.) Erm...I clearly said that it was meant to complement the other feats.
4.) Erm...I clearly said that it was meant to complement the other feats.
5.) I tihnk he was talking about the force field robot that covered the entire galaxy giving them 3-C ratings. In this scenario, Prana is covering tne entire universe.
6.) It is implied to be universal in the world statements, and since planetary is too low of an end, Universal is backed up even more.
7.) Well, scans might be toucheable, but word of mouth and personal logic sound way more toucheable than scans or timeframes, right?
8.) What are you talking about? I never hid that fact, it was just irrelevant to this. Yeah, the prana cube BFRed people, but Atem returning was reversing the effects on a collateral scale, so it would still scale to him. Bunch of people? Nothing compared to Atem´s feat.
9.) Well, you have not posted evidence of that fact, so...
10.) Wait, how is that my problem? You are the one who claimed it to be fact.
Like they say, fantastic claims need fantastic evidence.
11.) Outlier? Not at all as explained in my previous post.
My blog, aside from the Porbability Manipulation thing, stays intact. Ive already justified almost everything about it. I am even man enough to admit when i was wrong about probability manipulation and the range being Multi Universal instead of what i assumed to be just at least planetary.
12.) It does because it is not a valid equivalency between the both.
The point is, Atem did a thing before the prophecy could even take place. and that thing was not in the prophecy so...
Atem =/= Prophecy. At least until the kids lsot their powers after the fact.
Again, OoE.
13.) Funny how you ask me that, when you ignored most of my argument last reply. Anyways, it was already debunked by the OoE and Points 1 and 5 of my blog, so...
14.) Are you actually trying to argue that the Prana disseapeared BEFORE Corrupted Diva was defeated by Atem?.
15.) It wasnt even flickering, if the light was becoming weaker, or one of the kids was like "I feel prana leaving my body....!" youd have even a reasonable case, but...No you dont have that such quote now do you?
16.) Again? Oh yeah, you just dont accept when ive debunked you.
Anyways, this means that when Atem returned, it started reversing the overall cosmic damage it was doing to everything. You have to rememver the multi-universal dimension was ENDING as it was about to reach Yugi.
17.) Thats exactly what i am saying, Good to see we finally agree on something.
Atem returns first and then the prana leaves second. That implies that Atem did way more than just fulfil l the prophecy.
>Blog
Well, like i said above, i am honourable enough to admit i was wrong with Probability Manipulation and the range of Prana. But the rest is still in there and still stands to thisvery day.
18.) I mean, it is not that hard to understand, you claim that reversing the damage was also part of the prophecy, while it is not. As proven by point 1 of my blog were all the prophecy statements are.
>Unlogical to debate me
THe thing is, you are not discussing anymore. You just want to win and not take any compromises. Have you even admitted to a single error in this entire debate? Are you that self centered that you believe every single one of your points is correct to this point?
19.) It never says anything about "Removing its effects". Try again.
Well, you changed the definition of a word to suit your agenda...that is the dicitonary definition of lying.
20.) You are the one getting the two mixed up. Its not my fault you feel that way.
Also, it is not an outlier, as explained above.
21.) Isnt this quite ironic? Please. Ctrl + F and search "I was not debunked" and see how many times it finds it on your threads.
You are just repeating the same thing hoping that repetition will make your argumetn valid.
22.) While that is true, the point that reversing damage is still a cauntifiable feat that can be reversed with the same amount og energy. This feat is no different.
In this scenario, Dark Diva uses a cuantifiable feat to wipe up all of existence, and Atem reverses it with the same amount of force. Clear cut to me.
23.) He still did not knew the rules and still infused the cards with spirit energy. Soul Manipulation then?
24.) Oh my god, you are still going with the "opening to the movie is not canon to the movie" thing? Man, this was already dismissed in the previous point, why bring it up again?
25.) Even if it is a common thrope it doesnt mean you can apply it to anything you dont agree with, the new duel disk was stated to be resistant to prana. scan here.
>Yugi stated to not die because of the duel disk
Here.
26.) They run off the same technology, are called the same, is adressesed as the same as Yugi, Kaiba has no reason not to give Yugi one when facing Diva, etc. Not to mention you have yet to prove that the duel inks system even did anything aside from giving Kaiba digital cards. Hell, the prana friend says that the disk blocked the prana. If he said something like "The Duel Links System...is blocking the Prana?!" Youd have a point here, but you do not.
27.) Ive posted various videos of the return of Atem it isnt even funny. Everything shown on that clip is the exact same as the scans. It doesnt change the fact that the scans still show direct quotes from the film.
28.) Ive said the same thing to you. There is no objective doubt about this not being an outlier. It just doesnt make sense.
>Literally as Atem returned
Reversal, not removal. I think it should be clear by now.
29.) Not at all. Because it is already obvious that it was put there to compliment and show how the feat is not an outlier alongside the other world statements.
30.) Prana literally exists thanks to the Quantic Cube. Which was destroyed as the fight ended.
Hell, i think youve run into a wall.
If Atem defeating Diva is what caused the Corrupted Quantic Cube to explote it also escales anything prana can do to Atem directly.
Didnt expect that did ya?
31.) It was already explained above like how this was not an outlier at all. It is backed up by the evidence above, the world statments and direct scaling from the prophecy stablished in the reply above.
32.) Which I debunked (Yeah, the same thing back at you.)
33.) I am the one who aproves of it. You are the one saying that it is an outlier.
34.) Yes they are because they directly affect the functionality of Prana. Kaiba was only BFRed when he lost to Diva at duel monsters.
>Biased
Ignoring evidence and replying the same argument over and over is far above the regular Yugioh debater. This is an clear cut upgrade being dragged out by 4 days.
35.) We are not the same. But even if he did agreee to that, i did say that i was wrong about the scale on my blog. It is Multi Universal instead of Multi planetary or at least city level.
>Purple cloud
Yeah, i will prove that.
Even if you dont like scans, this one shows the Prana Multi universal dimension reaching another reality. This proves that is is above star level or galactic.
36.) it pretty much does since Prana has already been stated to be another reality i was the one who wrongly assumed it was just multi planetary.
>Limit isnt shown
Which i why i disagreed with you assuming it was just city level. That is flat out downplay.
37.) It was, because of Atem´s return.
38.) I see. It has come to direct insults. Thats sad to see in a debate.
39.) Yeah. But it wasnt memories what saved Jounochi
40.) I think you do not understand why i put this on the EXTRA SECTION, right? This is meant for a Deep Eyes Dragon page separate from Atem, Diva and the rest.
EVIDNECE Counters:
1.) Sorry for the miscomunication, it was just a way to say it.
But yes, it is reversal.
2.) Range being covered by an attack implies AP and force, remember, Prana covers the places it destroys completely. No different than the justificaiton of Phoneas and Ferb´s 3-C Tiering by covering the entirety of a galaxy.
3.) If Yugi didnt resist Prana, he would have been BFRed. And before you say its PIS, it is justified by having the new duel disk protect him from Prana.
4.) A bond that still correlates to memories when in a dimension strictly made out of them.
>World meaning Universe
World means universe based on the multiple world quotes, the multi universal range, Prana appearing in the prana reality, etc. I dont think it is too hard to understand at this point.
5.) This just proves you rely on people who come here just to say they agree with you, just like Charger here. Suspicious, isnt it?
Anyways, did you think i wouldnt suspect someone who had nothing with this like Adobe come here and say he agrees with me out of nowhere?
Dont think that this trick of yours will turn my argument down, Kukui.
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