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Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Side of Dimensions
- Thread starter Arigarmy
- Start date
- Status
- 790
- 37
That sounds like a blatant lie or excuse to me.
Even a darn photo will do.
Why do you want us to believe you cannot provide evidence of your claims?
Even a darn photo will do.
Why do you want us to believe you cannot provide evidence of your claims?
- 790
- 37
Then he can post timeframes of the film. (Which he said he downloaded) There shouldnt be any justification for not posting proof.
- 16,975
- 4,868
According to you.
The movie (dubbed btw, not subbed, so there are no captions or subtiltes to read statements) is downloaded as part of my videos section of my PC and there isn't a screenshotting option that allows me to screenshot scenes (unless u meant just specify timeframes which you can check on your own time?)
In fact, My PC cannot screenshot period except webpages, which refreshes the entire page after taking just one screenshot. And then its even harder as I can only share my screenshots, not download them.
The movie (dubbed btw, not subbed, so there are no captions or subtiltes to read statements) is downloaded as part of my videos section of my PC and there isn't a screenshotting option that allows me to screenshot scenes (unless u meant just specify timeframes which you can check on your own time?)
In fact, My PC cannot screenshot period except webpages, which refreshes the entire page after taking just one screenshot. And then its even harder as I can only share my screenshots, not download them.
- 790
- 37
Give us the timeframes of your claims unless you are going to say your media player does not tell you the timeframe of what you are seeing and that you dont even have a camera on your house to even take pictures of your screen.
Suspicious.
Like you are trying to convince us to get you off the burden of proof.
Suspicious.
Like you are trying to convince us to get you off the burden of proof.
- 2,500
- 145
This, this and this.
Please, just state your argumetn and the reason you want ygo downgraded
Please, just state your argumetn and the reason you want ygo downgraded
- 16,975
- 4,868
@Arigarmy
Nope. It wouldnt really help otherwise since even then, the movie I have downloaded is dubbed. There are no captions or subtitles to read what everyone so even if I could screenshot, as far as needing statements go, its useless.
Nope. It wouldnt really help otherwise since even then, the movie I have downloaded is dubbed. There are no captions or subtitles to read what everyone so even if I could screenshot, as far as needing statements go, its useless.
- 790
- 37
>its useless
Stop lying and download the subbed version.
Stop being a liar and just say that you dont want Yugioh to get the upgrade.
Stop lying and download the subbed version.
Stop being a liar and just say that you dont want Yugioh to get the upgrade.
- 1,855
- 292
- Thread starter
- #53
@Rapid/Mega
You two aren't helping. The less you instigate and the more you help him get this over with is all the more better than accussing extremities. He's looking for the sub, not the dub. Have you the mind to link him a sub already or have you just given the man dubs?
I might have the watch the damn thing myself if it comes down to it.
You two aren't helping. The less you instigate and the more you help him get this over with is all the more better than accussing extremities. He's looking for the sub, not the dub. Have you the mind to link him a sub already or have you just given the man dubs?
I might have the watch the damn thing myself if it comes down to it.
- 16,975
- 4,868
Or how about you stop making acusations on something that isn't my fault? I dont appreciate that at all.
I should also note out that I downloaded the movie when, at the time, it was on Youtube, which its no longer there.
I should also note out that I downloaded the movie when, at the time, it was on Youtube, which its no longer there.
- 16,975
- 4,868
@Yobo
Will do. That I can do.
Will do. That I can do.
- 790
- 37
Its a good film. You should watch it regardless.
- 790
- 37
No excuses
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@All
Alright. Since Im not going to spend another late night arguing this, with old and updated points, I will repost my first counter argument for why the Plana isn't tier 3. This time i'll note the timeframes to stuff from my PC, which I can definitely do, and someone can check on their own time if given the chance.
So here is the blog where OP tries to prove the Plana, and effectively DsoD, is 3-A.
And here is my reply to that blog to counter it:
1.) Reshaping the "fabric" of reality warping is just that. Reality Warping. Not at all an AP feat.
Shaping the world? Again, does not automatically mean universe. And from the way its depicted, it's more so pointing toward it being planetary than anything universal. And since I was the one who first argued this to be tier 3 or 2, that says something.
"Strongest power in the universe" also doesn't mean its 3-A or Low 2-C. It's no different than saying for example Frieza is the strongest fighter in the universe by namek saga and yet that definitely doesnt yield anything close to universe level. It's not a justification for a given tier.
2.) Diva doesn't have to state it. First off, its blatently shown when Atem actually comes back at the end of the movie, the very instant he enters Yugi's body, a golden light envelops the spreading Plana and starts making it dissapear. Then once Diva is defeated moments later, the cube is destroyed and the erasure is reversed next to instantly, with all the people (Joey, Tea, Tristian, Bakura, Kaiba, Mokuba, the Plana children, and so on) that were effected returning in a passed out state. If the effects weren't negated, most of the "world" would still be mostly erased in darkness right and all of the victims would be gone. Context matters for a reason.
3.) Finally some more proof to something, i'll acknowledge that. But that doesn't really change much. The Plana's range was already far beyond planetary as its flat out multi-universal (It BFR's victims across dimensions for gods sake.) Pretty sure that was an obvious given. That said, this range point only means that the gathering place of the Plana was effected (which is no surprise). It doesn't instantly mean that world was destroyed as well, it was only being erased in an unknown timeframe. Not only that, there's 0 evidence of the Plana world being a universe itself, so that only worsens the feat. The most you get out of this point is range, which it already had, and nothing more.
4.) Assumptious NLF here. As far as Kaiba goes, he only showed to use his duel disk to resist the Plana's BFR, so that's all he's getting. Saying he can no-sell more than that because of one variation of the power is flat out NLF and needs evidence, which there isn't any. The fact Kaiba can be effected by the Dark Plana proves he cannot resist all of its capabilities. Secondly, losing to a power doesnt at all mean your immune to it. Diva vanishing was because of the simpliest reason: he lost and retreated. Finally, another huge assumption made here is that all of these new Duel Disks have the same resistance when they don't at all. Kaiba's specifically is unique because unlike Yugi's, Kaiba's Duel Disk is one that gives him full use of Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network, giving him not only the ability to give life to all of his duel cards, but as confirmed, it can even give life to Kaiba's own thoughts via connection to his brain. Long story short, Kaiba literally runs the basis of all his technology with that duel disk, so its definitely not the same as one he gives to Yugi just for gaming purposes. Not only that, this would also imply any run of the mill duelist and their mother who gets their hands on these new duel disks from stores would, out of nowhere, gain the same resistances for no reason, which is silly. So unless something better is given, only Kaiba's duel disk has the resistances. Not all.
5.) A lot of issues with this. First of all, it doesn't matter whether Atem makes the power of the Plana itself vanish or the damages first. The simple fact here is that when he returns, the Plana period is destroyed as its activation and vanishing is tied to his presence in the world, not power. The reason why the damages were reversed/negated was because the Plana, that was still continuing to erase the "world", was being destroyed by him, thus subsiquently getting rid of the damages it was causing as well. Hell, if anything you can argue both the Plana and their users powers were vanishing all at once because of the prophecy. It's stated time and time again that the Phraroh's return will recant the Plana's power. What does that mean? It means the kids lose it and the power itself vanishes through and through. In addition to this, it is clearly seen that the Plana was instantly beginning to vanish the instant Atem returned. Assuming he did this feat, for arguments sake, would imply he passively did this via entering Yugi's body instead of actively performing it and saying Atem is passively a 3-A or higher being is, for many obvious reasons, beyond ridiculous. Next, your kind of missing one key thing here. The world didnt start to return to normal first. He went into Yugi, which started destroying the Plana immediately, called his monster, defeated Dark Diva, The Dark Plana Cube got destroyed from the result of Diva Losing, which brought the world back to normal. And defeated Dark Diva how? By making the very Plana itself go away. Thats all thats needed to stop its effects. Afterward, the OP literally states that "world" in japanese SOMETIMES means Universes. This is the very definition of speculation on theirr part and definitely isn't anywhere near enough to warrant a tier change. Finally, even if we ignore everything said above, and that this would somehow be an actual 3-A feat, given the fact that Atem has NEVER done anything remotely close to this level before, let alone easily, this would undoubtedly be an outlier on huge proportions.
6.) Addressing this here, for the 6th time. First of all, stars being/not being present doesn't at all mean the whole universe is effected. This goes right back to all pocket dimensions with suns in them being automatically tier 4 when that is incorrect. This would be at best being going as far as Stellar range (though the Plana's range is obviously far more via BFR). Secondly, just because stars are not in the background doesn't mean we automatically assume that they were destroyed. The Plana could very well have easily covered the earth in its power and worked its way toward the city before being stopped. In fact, since its viewed in so closely to a city, the darkness from the Plana can be very well argued to cover the area beyond the city, the sky, the planet, anything significantly less than the range of stars but still be viewed as covering "everything". Point here is, the dark plana's purpose is to cover, erase, and make a new world from the darkness, hence the conclusion on why seeing other planets and stars wouldnt be possible, destroyed or not.
7.) Once again, more stuff taken out of context. Other than the whole "power of frienship" stuff, Atem did not ever appear in Joeys memory world to save him. It was a memory of Atem that Joey had and was too strong for Diva's power to effect, which saved Joey and Joey even talks about this after he comes back. It's clearly not Atem himself or else the Plana's power would have been destroyed right at that moment.
Extra stuff: That isn't Probability Manipulation. Atem clearly summoned that monster of his own to finish Diva off with. Unless one can prove Yugi had this card on his own, it's only summoning. And as for the Deep Blue Eyes "feat", that is simple flashly game mechanic entrances done by the monster when summoned, which is literally nothing new in Yugioh.
EVIDNECE:
Here will be stuff that evidence can be brought for. I will name the timeframes as I said I would do before.
Point 2 & 5.) Most important, and I can actually use a link since youtube luckily has Atems return in HD - https://youtu.be/P3yHRw3saW4
2:11. The instant Atem returns the Dark Plana immediately begins being destroyed. The "light" that's pouring down from the sky and such isn't from Atem but from the Plana being destroyed via his revival in Yugi.
And at 3:44. Literally the instant Diva loses and vanishes, the Dark Plana cube gets destroyed and releases golden light of its own that restores the erasure as a result of Diva being defeated and the Plana being destroyed. Atem never unleashes any sort of action to reverse the damages. He literally only came to beat Diva and leave.
Point 4.) Timeframe is 20:20 - 21:05, after Kaiba defeats Hologram Atem. Quoted from dub:
"The Duel Link Solid Vision system is a technological marvel. It's far superior to any design thats come before it. It's sleeker, more precise, it gives me real time data from Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network. And when used in tandom with my new duel disk, it gives life to all the cards ive collected through the years. It can even give life to my very thoughts. Afterall, since it's direcltly connected with my brain, anything I imagine can become a reality. Just as you all witnessed with the Pharaoh. He proved to be an exact replica."
Very different from one used for just gaming purposes.
Point 7.) 1:11:10, Joey returns and blatently says to Diva how he survived the erasure: By having a memory of his friends that lasts forever. Power of Friendship nonsense at its finest. Definitely not Atem himself or else the Plana would be destroyed at this moment.
That should do it for now. Any counters/rebuttals i'll name more timeframes for and i'll see what everyone thinks.
Alright. Since Im not going to spend another late night arguing this, with old and updated points, I will repost my first counter argument for why the Plana isn't tier 3. This time i'll note the timeframes to stuff from my PC, which I can definitely do, and someone can check on their own time if given the chance.
So here is the blog where OP tries to prove the Plana, and effectively DsoD, is 3-A.
And here is my reply to that blog to counter it:
1.) Reshaping the "fabric" of reality warping is just that. Reality Warping. Not at all an AP feat.
Shaping the world? Again, does not automatically mean universe. And from the way its depicted, it's more so pointing toward it being planetary than anything universal. And since I was the one who first argued this to be tier 3 or 2, that says something.
"Strongest power in the universe" also doesn't mean its 3-A or Low 2-C. It's no different than saying for example Frieza is the strongest fighter in the universe by namek saga and yet that definitely doesnt yield anything close to universe level. It's not a justification for a given tier.
2.) Diva doesn't have to state it. First off, its blatently shown when Atem actually comes back at the end of the movie, the very instant he enters Yugi's body, a golden light envelops the spreading Plana and starts making it dissapear. Then once Diva is defeated moments later, the cube is destroyed and the erasure is reversed next to instantly, with all the people (Joey, Tea, Tristian, Bakura, Kaiba, Mokuba, the Plana children, and so on) that were effected returning in a passed out state. If the effects weren't negated, most of the "world" would still be mostly erased in darkness right and all of the victims would be gone. Context matters for a reason.
3.) Finally some more proof to something, i'll acknowledge that. But that doesn't really change much. The Plana's range was already far beyond planetary as its flat out multi-universal (It BFR's victims across dimensions for gods sake.) Pretty sure that was an obvious given. That said, this range point only means that the gathering place of the Plana was effected (which is no surprise). It doesn't instantly mean that world was destroyed as well, it was only being erased in an unknown timeframe. Not only that, there's 0 evidence of the Plana world being a universe itself, so that only worsens the feat. The most you get out of this point is range, which it already had, and nothing more.
4.) Assumptious NLF here. As far as Kaiba goes, he only showed to use his duel disk to resist the Plana's BFR, so that's all he's getting. Saying he can no-sell more than that because of one variation of the power is flat out NLF and needs evidence, which there isn't any. The fact Kaiba can be effected by the Dark Plana proves he cannot resist all of its capabilities. Secondly, losing to a power doesnt at all mean your immune to it. Diva vanishing was because of the simpliest reason: he lost and retreated. Finally, another huge assumption made here is that all of these new Duel Disks have the same resistance when they don't at all. Kaiba's specifically is unique because unlike Yugi's, Kaiba's Duel Disk is one that gives him full use of Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network, giving him not only the ability to give life to all of his duel cards, but as confirmed, it can even give life to Kaiba's own thoughts via connection to his brain. Long story short, Kaiba literally runs the basis of all his technology with that duel disk, so its definitely not the same as one he gives to Yugi just for gaming purposes. Not only that, this would also imply any run of the mill duelist and their mother who gets their hands on these new duel disks from stores would, out of nowhere, gain the same resistances for no reason, which is silly. So unless something better is given, only Kaiba's duel disk has the resistances. Not all.
5.) A lot of issues with this. First of all, it doesn't matter whether Atem makes the power of the Plana itself vanish or the damages first. The simple fact here is that when he returns, the Plana period is destroyed as its activation and vanishing is tied to his presence in the world, not power. The reason why the damages were reversed/negated was because the Plana, that was still continuing to erase the "world", was being destroyed by him, thus subsiquently getting rid of the damages it was causing as well. Hell, if anything you can argue both the Plana and their users powers were vanishing all at once because of the prophecy. It's stated time and time again that the Phraroh's return will recant the Plana's power. What does that mean? It means the kids lose it and the power itself vanishes through and through. In addition to this, it is clearly seen that the Plana was instantly beginning to vanish the instant Atem returned. Assuming he did this feat, for arguments sake, would imply he passively did this via entering Yugi's body instead of actively performing it and saying Atem is passively a 3-A or higher being is, for many obvious reasons, beyond ridiculous. Next, your kind of missing one key thing here. The world didnt start to return to normal first. He went into Yugi, which started destroying the Plana immediately, called his monster, defeated Dark Diva, The Dark Plana Cube got destroyed from the result of Diva Losing, which brought the world back to normal. And defeated Dark Diva how? By making the very Plana itself go away. Thats all thats needed to stop its effects. Afterward, the OP literally states that "world" in japanese SOMETIMES means Universes. This is the very definition of speculation on theirr part and definitely isn't anywhere near enough to warrant a tier change. Finally, even if we ignore everything said above, and that this would somehow be an actual 3-A feat, given the fact that Atem has NEVER done anything remotely close to this level before, let alone easily, this would undoubtedly be an outlier on huge proportions.
6.) Addressing this here, for the 6th time. First of all, stars being/not being present doesn't at all mean the whole universe is effected. This goes right back to all pocket dimensions with suns in them being automatically tier 4 when that is incorrect. This would be at best being going as far as Stellar range (though the Plana's range is obviously far more via BFR). Secondly, just because stars are not in the background doesn't mean we automatically assume that they were destroyed. The Plana could very well have easily covered the earth in its power and worked its way toward the city before being stopped. In fact, since its viewed in so closely to a city, the darkness from the Plana can be very well argued to cover the area beyond the city, the sky, the planet, anything significantly less than the range of stars but still be viewed as covering "everything". Point here is, the dark plana's purpose is to cover, erase, and make a new world from the darkness, hence the conclusion on why seeing other planets and stars wouldnt be possible, destroyed or not.
7.) Once again, more stuff taken out of context. Other than the whole "power of frienship" stuff, Atem did not ever appear in Joeys memory world to save him. It was a memory of Atem that Joey had and was too strong for Diva's power to effect, which saved Joey and Joey even talks about this after he comes back. It's clearly not Atem himself or else the Plana's power would have been destroyed right at that moment.
Extra stuff: That isn't Probability Manipulation. Atem clearly summoned that monster of his own to finish Diva off with. Unless one can prove Yugi had this card on his own, it's only summoning. And as for the Deep Blue Eyes "feat", that is simple flashly game mechanic entrances done by the monster when summoned, which is literally nothing new in Yugioh.
EVIDNECE:
Here will be stuff that evidence can be brought for. I will name the timeframes as I said I would do before.
Point 2 & 5.) Most important, and I can actually use a link since youtube luckily has Atems return in HD - https://youtu.be/P3yHRw3saW4
2:11. The instant Atem returns the Dark Plana immediately begins being destroyed. The "light" that's pouring down from the sky and such isn't from Atem but from the Plana being destroyed via his revival in Yugi.
And at 3:44. Literally the instant Diva loses and vanishes, the Dark Plana cube gets destroyed and releases golden light of its own that restores the erasure as a result of Diva being defeated and the Plana being destroyed. Atem never unleashes any sort of action to reverse the damages. He literally only came to beat Diva and leave.
Point 4.) Timeframe is 20:20 - 21:05, after Kaiba defeats Hologram Atem. Quoted from dub:
"The Duel Link Solid Vision system is a technological marvel. It's far superior to any design thats come before it. It's sleeker, more precise, it gives me real time data from Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network. And when used in tandom with my new duel disk, it gives life to all the cards ive collected through the years. It can even give life to my very thoughts. Afterall, since it's direcltly connected with my brain, anything I imagine can become a reality. Just as you all witnessed with the Pharaoh. He proved to be an exact replica."
Very different from one used for just gaming purposes.
Point 7.) 1:11:10, Joey returns and blatently says to Diva how he survived the erasure: By having a memory of his friends that lasts forever. Power of Friendship nonsense at its finest. Definitely not Atem himself or else the Plana would be destroyed at this moment.
That should do it for now. Any counters/rebuttals i'll name more timeframes for and i'll see what everyone thinks.
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@Matthew @Everlasting @Reppuzan
Since your new faces in this, do you have an opinion about this or the arguments for both sides at the moment?
Since your new faces in this, do you have an opinion about this or the arguments for both sides at the moment?
- 2,500
- 145
As long you dont start saying "Nu huh i didnt get debunked",i will continue debating this.
1.) This point is refering to POINT 1 of my blog, where i state multiple statements saying that Prana can use Reality Manipulation to reshape the "World" into one of happiness, dispair, etc.
The "Prana is supposed to be the strongest in the universe" is just ONE of the statements given in that point and was meant to give context to other feats in the blog. In that point, i argued that "World" could either refer to a planet or a universe as seen in multiple fictional verses, and since the dimensional range has been shown to be at least multi planetary in further points, POINT 1 was meant to explain how it is more likely that this is refering to a Universe instead of a planetary threat.
2.) POINT 2 was made to show that in the prophecy STATED by the movie multiple times, there is no mention that by the pahraoh returning, the effects of Prana would have been nullified or reversed. Meaning that, once Atem returned, the reversing of the effects would have been on him (Scaled to AP) and not on some kind of Prophecy hax.
the very instant he enters Yugi's body, a golden light envelops the spreading Plana and starts making it dissapear.
This could be a power of the Pharaoh´s, specially since the reversing of Prana´s effects happened FIRST and then the kids lost their powers SECOND as said by the prophecy.
If the effects weren't negated, most of the "world" would still be mostly erased in darkness right and all of the victims would be gone. Context matters for a reason.
The effects were indeed negated, but there is no indication it was on the prophecy and not on Atem himself, since he was the only one affecting the event directly, there is no one else who could have and thus, should scale directly to AP.
3.) POINT 3 Shows multiple scans of the Prana world, which has a supernatural background that does not fit planet earth at all (Which is supposed to look like ours, aside from Card Games) implying that this place is indeed OUTSIDE EARTH and thus, should be considered AT LEAST Multi-Planetary Range for Prana´s Dimensions.
Multi-Universal BFR Range
I agree with this.
It doesn't instantly mean that world was destroyed as well, it was only being erased in an unknown timeframe.
In this scan we can see Prana englufing the world. Which was previously shown to have appeared in the Prana world Minutes before.
And when Yugi is about to lose to Corrupted Aigami, we see a red cloud forming on top of it just like the duel he had with both Yugi and Kaiba.
Not only that, there's 0 evidence of the Plana world being a universe itself, so that only worsens the feat. The most you get out of this point is range, which it already had, and nothing more.
Never argued that Prana was a Universe itself, just that the range being above planetary and Diva refering to the UNIVERSE when he said Prana was the strongest, imply the 3-A rating being more accurate with what they meant with "World."
4.) POINT 4 Talks about Duel Monsters and how Prana is affected by it.
In
this scan we can see that one of Diva´s friend and VETERAN USER OF PRANA states that Kaiba´s new duel disk allows him to resist Prana´s dimensions, BFR and more, as it also shows to banish the Prana kids away from it, showing it negates all forms of Prana.
The fact Kaiba can be effected by the Dark Plana & losing to a power doesnt at all mean your immune to it.
Of course, this happened. BUT after he lost all of LP in a DUEL MONSTERS game against CORRUPTED DIVA. (Who also had the powers of the Millenium Ring aside from the Quantic Cube) as shown in my blog.
Diva vanishing was because of the simpliest reason: he lost and retreated.
Any proof of that? If he was retreatinghe would have said something along the lines of "I have to go." or "I will leave".
And it is dumb to BFR yourself into PRANA. The dimension where you can be destroyed by forgetting memories, why would he retreat there?
I think we can all agree this point is invalid and funded by your part.
Finally, another huge assumption made here is that all of these new Duel Disks have the same resistance when they don't at all. & Kaiba's Duel Disk is one that gives him full use of Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network, giving him not only the ability to give life to all of his duel cards.
While we do not see Yugi pull Digital Cards, he can also see the same screens Kaiba could and can also infuse his cards, Dimensional or cardboard, with his spirit, just as Kaiba, not to mention Yugi refers to the Duel Disk given to him as the new one.
This would also imply any run of the mill duelist and their mother who gets their hands on these new duel disks from stores would, out of nowhere, gain the same resistances for no reason,which i s silly. So unless something better is given, only Kaiba's duel disk has the resistances.
In the final duel against Corrupted Diva, the dimension was already affecting the public and Old Duel Disk users, yet Yugi and Kaiba could duel off Corrupted Diva without being BFRed, Implying that either Yugi´s New Duel Disk also gives him resistance or that his spirit is so strong he can resist it on his own.
And not even Kaiba´s new duel disk can same him from being BFRed by him, but only as he ran out of LP, which is determined by DUEL MONSTERS Rules.
5.) This part of POINT 5 of my Blog talks about Atem´s return.
Before any of this, i will show multiple scans of the events that happen as Atem returns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MON-YMMr7d8 (Japanese Dub)
0:25 Atem Returns. HIS Light, not the Cube´s or anything else, starts reversing the damage done by Prana.
0:33 Corrupted Diva, powered by the powers of Prana STILL LIVES even after his return.
https://youtu.be/hDKN9Qyg6XA?t=1m43s (English dub, but the sequence of events is all that matters)
2:00 The Prana Cube EXPLOTES, 1:35 seconds after the Pharaoh returned and restored the world BEFORE Negating Prana, restoring the world to what it once was and taking away the kid´s powers.
the Plana period is destroyed as its activation and vanishing is tied to his presence in the world, not power.
Debunked by the order of events and the lack of such claim in the Prophecy of such return in Point 1 of my blog.
It's stated time and time again that the Phraroh's return will recant the Plana's power.
In point 1 of my Blog, i put all of the statements about the Phraoh´s returns and if you check, you can see that none of them mention anything that they will lose their powers when he does return. Recanted means to take away, as i also posted the dictionary definition on the blog.
Atem is passively a 3-A or higher being is, for many obvious reasons, beyond ridiculous.
Debunked by the order of events and point 1 of the blog.
And defeated Dark Diva how? By making the very Plana itself go away. Thats all thats needed to stop its effects.
Wrong. One hundred percent wrong.
The world was being restored by the pharaoh´s return as sooon as he came back, and Prana was only taken away AFTER the world and DARK DIVA were already defeated as shown in POint 5 of my blog.
Afterward, the OP literally states that "world" in japanese SOMETIMES means Universes.
Do not misquote me. I said that it could mean either planet or Universe in FICTION, yes.
But it was to give context to my argument, since even the range for the dimensions are At least above Planetary, all of the quotes refering to "Planet" when saying "World" would be negated, and thus, mean Universe.
This would somehow be an actual 3-A feat, given the fact that Atem has NEVER done anything remotely close to this level before, let alone easily, this would undoubtedly be an outlier on huge proportions.
The Prana cube is far stronger than any other millenium item shown in the Manga Yugioh Verse.
I see how hypocritical youd have to be to say this would be an outlier and not complain about Dragon Ball jumping from 4-B to 3-A by Battle of Gods or Homura jumping from Tier 7 into Tier 2-A. by Rebellion. Huge feats happen, and this is no reason to simply discard said feat as an "outlier" when the entire movie is leading up for it.
Addressing this here, for the 6th time. First of all, stars being/not being present doesn't at all mean the whole universe is effected.
It implies it is also consuming Stars and galaxies and not just "the planet" like you are trying to propose, also point 2 range already disproves anything under Multi Planet in destructive scale.
Secondly, just because stars are not in the background doesn't mean we automatically assume that they were destroyed. The Plana could very well have easily covered the earth in its power and worked its way toward the city before being stopped.
In fact, since its viewed in so closely to a city, the darkness from the Plana can be very well argued to cover the area beyond the city, the sky, the planet, anything significantly less than the range of stars but still be viewed as covering "everything". Point here is, the dark plana's purpose is to cover, erase, and make a new world from the darkness, hence the conclusion on why seeing other planets and stars wouldnt be possible, destroyed or not.
This is 100% headcanon. There is no reason why diva would spare stars and other objects from Prana. This is easly contradicted by the scans of Prana also affeting the prana plane. (Why would it be covering EARTH and not the Prana planet too when it is also on its range?) Not to mention that the purple haze has been shown to BFR people and the enviorement at contact, there is no "Covering".
6.) Wrong point to post this, this point is for other Prana skills both Diva and Shadii have, so, i guess this means you agree with them, huh?
7.) This is refering to the entire blog in general, Point 7 is for extra stuff.
It was a memory of Atem that Joey had and was too strong for Diva's power to effect, which saved Joey and Joey even talks about this after he comes back. It's clearly not Atem himself or else the Plana's power would have been destroyed right at that moment.
There is no indication it was a memory of Joey´s and Joey only thanks Yugi as he comes back to the real world.
Atem in Point 5 summoned mahad to defeat Corrupted Aigami and talking to Yugi, THEN prana is taken away from the kids.
I dont want to push this point furhter since Atem appearing on memories and restoring them is unquantifiable.
But traveling to another Dimensions would be seen as a sign of Trans-Dimensional travel.
Extra stuff:
I drop the Probability Manipualtion thing, it doesnt seem so likely now.
And as for the Deep Blue Eyes "feat", that is simple flashly game mechanic entrances done by the monster when summoned, which is literally nothing new in Yugioh.
'You do' know there are profiles for Card Lore, right?
Part 1 of 2.
1.) This point is refering to POINT 1 of my blog, where i state multiple statements saying that Prana can use Reality Manipulation to reshape the "World" into one of happiness, dispair, etc.
The "Prana is supposed to be the strongest in the universe" is just ONE of the statements given in that point and was meant to give context to other feats in the blog. In that point, i argued that "World" could either refer to a planet or a universe as seen in multiple fictional verses, and since the dimensional range has been shown to be at least multi planetary in further points, POINT 1 was meant to explain how it is more likely that this is refering to a Universe instead of a planetary threat.
2.) POINT 2 was made to show that in the prophecy STATED by the movie multiple times, there is no mention that by the pahraoh returning, the effects of Prana would have been nullified or reversed. Meaning that, once Atem returned, the reversing of the effects would have been on him (Scaled to AP) and not on some kind of Prophecy hax.
the very instant he enters Yugi's body, a golden light envelops the spreading Plana and starts making it dissapear.
This could be a power of the Pharaoh´s, specially since the reversing of Prana´s effects happened FIRST and then the kids lost their powers SECOND as said by the prophecy.
If the effects weren't negated, most of the "world" would still be mostly erased in darkness right and all of the victims would be gone. Context matters for a reason.
The effects were indeed negated, but there is no indication it was on the prophecy and not on Atem himself, since he was the only one affecting the event directly, there is no one else who could have and thus, should scale directly to AP.
3.) POINT 3 Shows multiple scans of the Prana world, which has a supernatural background that does not fit planet earth at all (Which is supposed to look like ours, aside from Card Games) implying that this place is indeed OUTSIDE EARTH and thus, should be considered AT LEAST Multi-Planetary Range for Prana´s Dimensions.
Multi-Universal BFR Range
I agree with this.
It doesn't instantly mean that world was destroyed as well, it was only being erased in an unknown timeframe.
In this scan we can see Prana englufing the world. Which was previously shown to have appeared in the Prana world Minutes before.
And when Yugi is about to lose to Corrupted Aigami, we see a red cloud forming on top of it just like the duel he had with both Yugi and Kaiba.
Not only that, there's 0 evidence of the Plana world being a universe itself, so that only worsens the feat. The most you get out of this point is range, which it already had, and nothing more.
Never argued that Prana was a Universe itself, just that the range being above planetary and Diva refering to the UNIVERSE when he said Prana was the strongest, imply the 3-A rating being more accurate with what they meant with "World."
4.) POINT 4 Talks about Duel Monsters and how Prana is affected by it.
In
this scan we can see that one of Diva´s friend and VETERAN USER OF PRANA states that Kaiba´s new duel disk allows him to resist Prana´s dimensions, BFR and more, as it also shows to banish the Prana kids away from it, showing it negates all forms of Prana.
The fact Kaiba can be effected by the Dark Plana & losing to a power doesnt at all mean your immune to it.
Of course, this happened. BUT after he lost all of LP in a DUEL MONSTERS game against CORRUPTED DIVA. (Who also had the powers of the Millenium Ring aside from the Quantic Cube) as shown in my blog.
Diva vanishing was because of the simpliest reason: he lost and retreated.
Any proof of that? If he was retreatinghe would have said something along the lines of "I have to go." or "I will leave".
And it is dumb to BFR yourself into PRANA. The dimension where you can be destroyed by forgetting memories, why would he retreat there?
I think we can all agree this point is invalid and funded by your part.
Finally, another huge assumption made here is that all of these new Duel Disks have the same resistance when they don't at all. & Kaiba's Duel Disk is one that gives him full use of Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network, giving him not only the ability to give life to all of his duel cards.
While we do not see Yugi pull Digital Cards, he can also see the same screens Kaiba could and can also infuse his cards, Dimensional or cardboard, with his spirit, just as Kaiba, not to mention Yugi refers to the Duel Disk given to him as the new one.
This would also imply any run of the mill duelist and their mother who gets their hands on these new duel disks from stores would, out of nowhere, gain the same resistances for no reason,which i s silly. So unless something better is given, only Kaiba's duel disk has the resistances.
In the final duel against Corrupted Diva, the dimension was already affecting the public and Old Duel Disk users, yet Yugi and Kaiba could duel off Corrupted Diva without being BFRed, Implying that either Yugi´s New Duel Disk also gives him resistance or that his spirit is so strong he can resist it on his own.
And not even Kaiba´s new duel disk can same him from being BFRed by him, but only as he ran out of LP, which is determined by DUEL MONSTERS Rules.
5.) This part of POINT 5 of my Blog talks about Atem´s return.
Before any of this, i will show multiple scans of the events that happen as Atem returns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MON-YMMr7d8 (Japanese Dub)
0:25 Atem Returns. HIS Light, not the Cube´s or anything else, starts reversing the damage done by Prana.
0:33 Corrupted Diva, powered by the powers of Prana STILL LIVES even after his return.
https://youtu.be/hDKN9Qyg6XA?t=1m43s (English dub, but the sequence of events is all that matters)
2:00 The Prana Cube EXPLOTES, 1:35 seconds after the Pharaoh returned and restored the world BEFORE Negating Prana, restoring the world to what it once was and taking away the kid´s powers.
the Plana period is destroyed as its activation and vanishing is tied to his presence in the world, not power.
Debunked by the order of events and the lack of such claim in the Prophecy of such return in Point 1 of my blog.
It's stated time and time again that the Phraroh's return will recant the Plana's power.
In point 1 of my Blog, i put all of the statements about the Phraoh´s returns and if you check, you can see that none of them mention anything that they will lose their powers when he does return. Recanted means to take away, as i also posted the dictionary definition on the blog.
Atem is passively a 3-A or higher being is, for many obvious reasons, beyond ridiculous.
Debunked by the order of events and point 1 of the blog.
And defeated Dark Diva how? By making the very Plana itself go away. Thats all thats needed to stop its effects.
Wrong. One hundred percent wrong.
The world was being restored by the pharaoh´s return as sooon as he came back, and Prana was only taken away AFTER the world and DARK DIVA were already defeated as shown in POint 5 of my blog.
Afterward, the OP literally states that "world" in japanese SOMETIMES means Universes.
Do not misquote me. I said that it could mean either planet or Universe in FICTION, yes.
But it was to give context to my argument, since even the range for the dimensions are At least above Planetary, all of the quotes refering to "Planet" when saying "World" would be negated, and thus, mean Universe.
This would somehow be an actual 3-A feat, given the fact that Atem has NEVER done anything remotely close to this level before, let alone easily, this would undoubtedly be an outlier on huge proportions.
The Prana cube is far stronger than any other millenium item shown in the Manga Yugioh Verse.
I see how hypocritical youd have to be to say this would be an outlier and not complain about Dragon Ball jumping from 4-B to 3-A by Battle of Gods or Homura jumping from Tier 7 into Tier 2-A. by Rebellion. Huge feats happen, and this is no reason to simply discard said feat as an "outlier" when the entire movie is leading up for it.
Addressing this here, for the 6th time. First of all, stars being/not being present doesn't at all mean the whole universe is effected.
It implies it is also consuming Stars and galaxies and not just "the planet" like you are trying to propose, also point 2 range already disproves anything under Multi Planet in destructive scale.
Secondly, just because stars are not in the background doesn't mean we automatically assume that they were destroyed. The Plana could very well have easily covered the earth in its power and worked its way toward the city before being stopped.
In fact, since its viewed in so closely to a city, the darkness from the Plana can be very well argued to cover the area beyond the city, the sky, the planet, anything significantly less than the range of stars but still be viewed as covering "everything". Point here is, the dark plana's purpose is to cover, erase, and make a new world from the darkness, hence the conclusion on why seeing other planets and stars wouldnt be possible, destroyed or not.
This is 100% headcanon. There is no reason why diva would spare stars and other objects from Prana. This is easly contradicted by the scans of Prana also affeting the prana plane. (Why would it be covering EARTH and not the Prana planet too when it is also on its range?) Not to mention that the purple haze has been shown to BFR people and the enviorement at contact, there is no "Covering".
6.) Wrong point to post this, this point is for other Prana skills both Diva and Shadii have, so, i guess this means you agree with them, huh?
7.) This is refering to the entire blog in general, Point 7 is for extra stuff.
It was a memory of Atem that Joey had and was too strong for Diva's power to effect, which saved Joey and Joey even talks about this after he comes back. It's clearly not Atem himself or else the Plana's power would have been destroyed right at that moment.
There is no indication it was a memory of Joey´s and Joey only thanks Yugi as he comes back to the real world.
Atem in Point 5 summoned mahad to defeat Corrupted Aigami and talking to Yugi, THEN prana is taken away from the kids.
I dont want to push this point furhter since Atem appearing on memories and restoring them is unquantifiable.
But traveling to another Dimensions would be seen as a sign of Trans-Dimensional travel.
Extra stuff:
I drop the Probability Manipualtion thing, it doesnt seem so likely now.
And as for the Deep Blue Eyes "feat", that is simple flashly game mechanic entrances done by the monster when summoned, which is literally nothing new in Yugioh.
'You do' know there are profiles for Card Lore, right?
Part 1 of 2.
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EVIDNECE: *Evidence.
Here will be stuff that evidence can be brought for. I will name the timeframes as I said I would do before.
Finally.
Point 2 & 5.) Most important, and I can actually use a link since youtube luckily has Atems return in HD - https://youtu.be/P3yHRw3saW4
2:11. The instant Atem returns the Dark Plana immediately begins being destroyed. The "light" that's pouring down from the sky and such isn't from Atem but from the Plana being destroyed via his revival in Yugi.
Wrong, the first ary of light comes from Atem´s return.
We can clearly see that the PURPLE BEAMS turn GOLDEN After Atem comes back, this argument is once again debunked by order of events.
And at 3:44. Literally the instant Diva loses and vanishes, the Dark Plana cube gets destroyed and releases golden light of its own that restores the erasure as a result of Diva being defeated and the Plana being destroyed. Atem never unleashes any sort of action to reverse the damages. He literally only came to beat Diva and leave.
He literally starts reversing the damage at 2:11, as he literally reverts Prana out of existence, the reversal of damage happens because of his return, but NOT because of the prophecy.
Not to mention that this supports the Order of Events thing, which further destroys your argument.
Point 4.) Timeframe is 20:20 - 21:05, after Kaiba defeats Hologram Atem. Quoted from dub:
"The Duel Link Solid Vision system is a technological marvel. It's far superior to any design thats come before it. It's sleeker, more precise, it gives me real time data from Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network. And when used in tandom with my new duel disk, it gives life to all the cards ive collected through the years. It can even give life to my very thoughts. Afterall, since it's direcltly connected with my brain, anything I imagine can become a reality. Just as you all witnessed with the Pharaoh. He proved to be an exact replica."
He is refering to the Duel Link System, not the new Duel Disk. This is not part of the erasure part shown right before he was going to duel Diva, but that he can materialize any card in his memory and give it life.
Specially because of this quote: " And when used in tandom with my new duel disk "
Which clearly states that they are separate items.
One thing is the DL System and other is the New Duel Disk, which when used TOGETHER can materialize his cards with his imagination.
I do consider this debunked by the same quote you gave me.
Point 7.) 1:11:10, Joey returns and blatently says to Diva how he survived the erasure: By having a memory of his friends that lasts forever. Power of Friendship nonsense at its finest. Definitely not Atem himself or else the Plana would be destroyed at this moment.
Joey in the Japanese version says that their Bonds cannot be broken.
If you check the Japanese dub, exactly at 1:11:27 we can hear
oretachi no kizuna wa yo, chigen mokoetetsunageteiruza!
Our bonds, we are connecting together now!
Aka, their BONDS, not MEMORY. You can check it out yourself at that timeframe.
And when he talks to Yugi at 1:12:12
He does not say "Thank You thats all" like in the dub version, he says "Ore sa, Ore...Iya, nandemone"
Which is literally "I...I...Nevermind, Its nothing".
Part 2/2.
Please, thid took over an hour to write.
Do accept that you are wrong at some things and that i was wrong about some things.
If you even dare say a "Nu huh, i wasnt debunked, YOU were debunked" again, i will leave this thread and you can drive this verse to the ground if you so desire, debating with someone without the capacity of reflection is useless.
Here will be stuff that evidence can be brought for. I will name the timeframes as I said I would do before.
Finally.
Point 2 & 5.) Most important, and I can actually use a link since youtube luckily has Atems return in HD - https://youtu.be/P3yHRw3saW4
2:11. The instant Atem returns the Dark Plana immediately begins being destroyed. The "light" that's pouring down from the sky and such isn't from Atem but from the Plana being destroyed via his revival in Yugi.
Wrong, the first ary of light comes from Atem´s return.
We can clearly see that the PURPLE BEAMS turn GOLDEN After Atem comes back, this argument is once again debunked by order of events.
And at 3:44. Literally the instant Diva loses and vanishes, the Dark Plana cube gets destroyed and releases golden light of its own that restores the erasure as a result of Diva being defeated and the Plana being destroyed. Atem never unleashes any sort of action to reverse the damages. He literally only came to beat Diva and leave.
He literally starts reversing the damage at 2:11, as he literally reverts Prana out of existence, the reversal of damage happens because of his return, but NOT because of the prophecy.
Not to mention that this supports the Order of Events thing, which further destroys your argument.
Point 4.) Timeframe is 20:20 - 21:05, after Kaiba defeats Hologram Atem. Quoted from dub:
"The Duel Link Solid Vision system is a technological marvel. It's far superior to any design thats come before it. It's sleeker, more precise, it gives me real time data from Kaiba Corps Crystal Cloud Network. And when used in tandom with my new duel disk, it gives life to all the cards ive collected through the years. It can even give life to my very thoughts. Afterall, since it's direcltly connected with my brain, anything I imagine can become a reality. Just as you all witnessed with the Pharaoh. He proved to be an exact replica."
He is refering to the Duel Link System, not the new Duel Disk. This is not part of the erasure part shown right before he was going to duel Diva, but that he can materialize any card in his memory and give it life.
Specially because of this quote: " And when used in tandom with my new duel disk "
Which clearly states that they are separate items.
One thing is the DL System and other is the New Duel Disk, which when used TOGETHER can materialize his cards with his imagination.
I do consider this debunked by the same quote you gave me.
Point 7.) 1:11:10, Joey returns and blatently says to Diva how he survived the erasure: By having a memory of his friends that lasts forever. Power of Friendship nonsense at its finest. Definitely not Atem himself or else the Plana would be destroyed at this moment.
Joey in the Japanese version says that their Bonds cannot be broken.
If you check the Japanese dub, exactly at 1:11:27 we can hear
oretachi no kizuna wa yo, chigen mokoetetsunageteiruza!
Our bonds, we are connecting together now!
Aka, their BONDS, not MEMORY. You can check it out yourself at that timeframe.
And when he talks to Yugi at 1:12:12
He does not say "Thank You thats all" like in the dub version, he says "Ore sa, Ore...Iya, nandemone"
Which is literally "I...I...Nevermind, Its nothing".
Part 2/2.
Please, thid took over an hour to write.
Do accept that you are wrong at some things and that i was wrong about some things.
If you even dare say a "Nu huh, i wasnt debunked, YOU were debunked" again, i will leave this thread and you can drive this verse to the ground if you so desire, debating with someone without the capacity of reflection is useless.
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Damn dude, thats impresive.
I hope he wont throw the argument away like last time.
I hope he wont throw the argument away like last time.
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I will work on my rebuttals while in school but I will not be able to post unti I get home.
Just a heads up.
Just a heads up.
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Here's my rebuttals. (Managed to post this in school, wow)
1.) Thats fine and dandy but the problem here is that a good chunk of this isn't even statements. You don't get anything from "strongest in the universe" tier wise, otherwise again guys like Frieza would have long been 3-A before now. And even if the range of the Dark plana's erasure was going as far as entire solar systems/galaxies that doesnt automatically warrant universal erasure range (DONT confuse this with the Planas range. Its very Multi-Universal via BFR, im talking about the range its erasure went.
Also, even taking it at 100% face value, using reality manipulation on a universe still isnt AP. It'd be 3-A hax.
2.) Which is why I said it doesnt need to be stated to be reversed. If a power is recanted/negated, then so are its effects. And thats especially true if a power is in the middle of being in effect. Its something very obvious that doesnt need a specific statement. You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material. Thats how we get limited in feats. Also, its just as you said yourself. Its blatently said throughout the whole movie that Atems return would negate the Plana and make it vanish for good. Going off that, thats definitely a prochecy hax as thats not stressed enough. All this means is that the Planas power is connected to Atems presence. Take Kami or Dende from DragonBall. They have a connection with the Dragon Balls and if they should die, the DragonBalls with vanish/turn to stone. This is no different. As long as Atem lives in the world, the Plana cannot be activated. Once he leavea, it can he and if he should ever return to the world, it will vanish permanently. That doesnt have anything to do with Atems own power (as somebody clarified to me before when I brought this up Ill add). And if it actually did have to do with Atems power, this returns to my original point. Atem would have been doing this passively via entering Yugi instead of actively and its ridiculous on many levels for many reasons for Atem to passively be a 3-A. Not to mention an incredible outlier.
>Could be a power of the Pharaohs
Or just a weakness of the Plana, as clarified multiple times. Plus, even if the Kids didnt lose their powera first, that doesnt mean the Plana wasnt weakening. It was in the process of vanishing. And again, the planas power is just tied together with Atems presence in the world, connected to him. He doesnt need to have any level of strength to prevent its use. Also, no offense, your somewhat over-exaggerating things. The prophecy never stated those order of events. All it said was that when the Pharaoh leaves, the Plana is granted, but if he should return, it becomes recanted.
And thats another problem. Atem never directly does any active act of reversing the erasure. All he does is come, summon his monster, and destroys Divas monster, beating him. "No indication on it being on the prochecy" when its literally stressed throughout the movie the Plana leaves when the Pharaoh returns has little to no chances of being correct. And it wouldnt matter if it was Atem who did it because not only is it definitely not an AP feat (reversing erasure is hax only at best) it would still be an outlier. But to prevent a back and forth loop on this point, it may be easier if you post a scan of what you think is him directly doing the feat so its clear on what we're arguing about.
3.) Aside from the already clear Multi-Universal range from BFR, I already knew the Plana world was in a different reality than earth. Just because its in a different reality and was being attacked doensnt mean it was destroyed. All we know is that it was targeteed too. Also, your making another assumption. The Plana dimension being that big doesnt mean all dimensions Diva creates, like from dimension duels, are. It's NLF and needs proof for every single dimension being that sized.
4.) The red cloud engulfing the Plana world doesn't mean much. The sky was only covered by it, it still doesn't mean it was destroyed. All we know is that the Plana world was being targeted. And again, you cannot assume 3-A anything going off of "strongest in the universe" and "World". The former doesnt prove anything like how it doesnt mean Namek Frieza is 3-A and only the latter has a possibility of meaning universe and thats not enough.
5.) The duel disk point again. First of all thats NLF. 'All forms of the Plana" being negated when all Diva used against Kaiba was BFR is incorrect. Second, I dont see how this counters my point on only Kaiba getting the resistances and no one else. Also, I wouldnt arguesl stuff like "LP" being gone as thats game mechanics.
6.) More assumption. The Plana doesnt have a specific dimension, if your refering to the small space Diva, Mani and Sarah have been to, that is all it is. A small space. Even bigger assumption, that space doesnt erase memories. None of Divas dimensions erase memories except the one he trapped Joey in, which is explicity specific for him and only him. What Diva did to that dimension doesnt mean he does that to them all. It would be like saying that if I make a pocket dimension out of fire, it suddenly means any other dimension I make is automatically made out of it.
7.) You do know you can only infuse your spirit energy with monsters when in dimension duels right? Thats an explict mechanic of that dueling format that cannot be done anywhere else. So its not even an abiliy of the duelists but what the duel itself grants them. And of course Yugi would see the same screens because its still a duel disk that has similar mechanical variations. It doesnt mean his is the same as Kaibas. Aside from shining energy, Kaibas duel disk runs the core basis of literally all Kaiba Corps technology. Yugis duel disk is just to play a game. Theres no comparing the two. And for Yugi and Kaiba not being destroyed by the Dark Plana unlike the public, thats simple PIS for the sake of plot since its a common trope of "good guy vs bad guy", that if the good guy fails evil wins. And Yugi and Kaiba were kinda the only ones in commision to fight Diva.
5.) Your misinterpreting stuff.
The light that came from Atem the moment he entered Yugis body wasnt reversing anything. It was the Plana being destroyed via his return as the proprechy dictates numerous times. You can see that when the streams of dark plana energy glow and then vanish. Plus nothing was actually restored until AFTER the Dark Plana Cube destroyed itself. If nothing else, the energy Atem unleashes was nothing more than power he lets out when transforming via Yugis body, which happens all the time in Yugioh. And once again, even with the benefit of the doubt and that its a legit feat, its still an outlier. Finally, if your gonna argue stuff like " Plana wasnt instantly destroyed, its still there", that is easily sake of plot so Atems final moment appearing is him defeating the enemy.
Rest of this point is circular arguments that i've covered here. Though I will say this. Nothing you put debunks the counter of Atem passively being 3-A, which is ridiculous as he'd destroy litrally anyone he faces just by standing doing absolutely nothing. And if yohr gonna say "then everyone and their mothers are just 3-A themselves", that makes it even more of a crazy outlier that will never be accepted.
>World was being restored as soon as the Pharaoh came back
Again, no it wasnt. It was being restored the instant after the Dark Plana Cube self-destructed. What happened when he came back was the Planas destruction. Your mixing things up.
6.) Okay and? The difference in distance between planet and universe is literally infinite. Not only does saying "either" still make it very speculative, but thinking its beyond planetary doesnt automaticslly mean universe. It can easily be solar, stellar, even galactic. All lower than Universe attack range but greater than Planetary attack range.
7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level. He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception.
8.) Beyond Multi-Planet range =/= affecting stars and the problem here is nothing shows stars and galaxies being consumed. We're ASUMMING they are just because of beyond planetary range, which is no where near enough and silly.
>No reason for Diva to spare them.
Doesnt matter much if he cant even reach them TO effect them. I could say I wouldnt spare the universe as many times as I want, im not a universal so its meaningless.
>Affecting the plana plane
Which is a different reality and can very well be in the same boat. We see the red clouds covering what the Dark Plana destroys so its very logical to say the planet would be covered by it.
>BFR people.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
9.) Plana abilities I actually agree with yes. In fact it may have even more but nows not the time to discuss hax.
10.) It is a memory as I clarified below. Joey outright says it via power of friendship. Ill continue this there as you likely have thoughts about it.
11.) Card lores, which have 0 evidence of those flashu entrances being legit. Theres a difference between saying, in lore, someone can destroy a universe and how flashy effects depict that. All the lore proves is they can destroy a universe. HOW its done is debatable.
Evidnece counters:
12.) And they turn golden and get destroyed because of his return to the world, as the prophecy dicates throughtout the whole movie. Has nothing to do with power. And that isnt even reversing effects.
>Supports you
It doesnt. Destroying the purple plana streams isnt reversing it and he destroyed them via his return, not power in any definition of the word. The reversal doesnt even start until Kaiba, Joey and everyone return along with the city and everything else. Your mixing up "reversal".
Also, strange you say not becausw of the prophecy, which literally dictates his return.
13.) That literally changes nothing. The system is being used TOGETHER with his duel disk, meaning Kaibas duel disk is explicty designed to run his technplogy network unlike any of the other duel disks. The fact his duel disk is being used as the catylst of the system to run his technology makes it incredibly different. Being separate doesnt mean much when they're used together.
14.) And how exactly does this change anything? Given the dimension he was in was strictly designed by memories, it only makes sense that Joey would use a memory too strong for Diva to erase, hence the " bond" Joey in the sub spoke of. Still power of friendship crap nontheless.
Done for now. And don't pull the "your wrong" stuff again this time. Im willing to restatt fresh again, and with staff here, its best no hostilty comes up again.
1.) Thats fine and dandy but the problem here is that a good chunk of this isn't even statements. You don't get anything from "strongest in the universe" tier wise, otherwise again guys like Frieza would have long been 3-A before now. And even if the range of the Dark plana's erasure was going as far as entire solar systems/galaxies that doesnt automatically warrant universal erasure range (DONT confuse this with the Planas range. Its very Multi-Universal via BFR, im talking about the range its erasure went.
Also, even taking it at 100% face value, using reality manipulation on a universe still isnt AP. It'd be 3-A hax.
2.) Which is why I said it doesnt need to be stated to be reversed. If a power is recanted/negated, then so are its effects. And thats especially true if a power is in the middle of being in effect. Its something very obvious that doesnt need a specific statement. You dont need a confirmation on every little part of material. Thats how we get limited in feats. Also, its just as you said yourself. Its blatently said throughout the whole movie that Atems return would negate the Plana and make it vanish for good. Going off that, thats definitely a prochecy hax as thats not stressed enough. All this means is that the Planas power is connected to Atems presence. Take Kami or Dende from DragonBall. They have a connection with the Dragon Balls and if they should die, the DragonBalls with vanish/turn to stone. This is no different. As long as Atem lives in the world, the Plana cannot be activated. Once he leavea, it can he and if he should ever return to the world, it will vanish permanently. That doesnt have anything to do with Atems own power (as somebody clarified to me before when I brought this up Ill add). And if it actually did have to do with Atems power, this returns to my original point. Atem would have been doing this passively via entering Yugi instead of actively and its ridiculous on many levels for many reasons for Atem to passively be a 3-A. Not to mention an incredible outlier.
>Could be a power of the Pharaohs
Or just a weakness of the Plana, as clarified multiple times. Plus, even if the Kids didnt lose their powera first, that doesnt mean the Plana wasnt weakening. It was in the process of vanishing. And again, the planas power is just tied together with Atems presence in the world, connected to him. He doesnt need to have any level of strength to prevent its use. Also, no offense, your somewhat over-exaggerating things. The prophecy never stated those order of events. All it said was that when the Pharaoh leaves, the Plana is granted, but if he should return, it becomes recanted.
And thats another problem. Atem never directly does any active act of reversing the erasure. All he does is come, summon his monster, and destroys Divas monster, beating him. "No indication on it being on the prochecy" when its literally stressed throughout the movie the Plana leaves when the Pharaoh returns has little to no chances of being correct. And it wouldnt matter if it was Atem who did it because not only is it definitely not an AP feat (reversing erasure is hax only at best) it would still be an outlier. But to prevent a back and forth loop on this point, it may be easier if you post a scan of what you think is him directly doing the feat so its clear on what we're arguing about.
3.) Aside from the already clear Multi-Universal range from BFR, I already knew the Plana world was in a different reality than earth. Just because its in a different reality and was being attacked doensnt mean it was destroyed. All we know is that it was targeteed too. Also, your making another assumption. The Plana dimension being that big doesnt mean all dimensions Diva creates, like from dimension duels, are. It's NLF and needs proof for every single dimension being that sized.
4.) The red cloud engulfing the Plana world doesn't mean much. The sky was only covered by it, it still doesn't mean it was destroyed. All we know is that the Plana world was being targeted. And again, you cannot assume 3-A anything going off of "strongest in the universe" and "World". The former doesnt prove anything like how it doesnt mean Namek Frieza is 3-A and only the latter has a possibility of meaning universe and thats not enough.
5.) The duel disk point again. First of all thats NLF. 'All forms of the Plana" being negated when all Diva used against Kaiba was BFR is incorrect. Second, I dont see how this counters my point on only Kaiba getting the resistances and no one else. Also, I wouldnt arguesl stuff like "LP" being gone as thats game mechanics.
6.) More assumption. The Plana doesnt have a specific dimension, if your refering to the small space Diva, Mani and Sarah have been to, that is all it is. A small space. Even bigger assumption, that space doesnt erase memories. None of Divas dimensions erase memories except the one he trapped Joey in, which is explicity specific for him and only him. What Diva did to that dimension doesnt mean he does that to them all. It would be like saying that if I make a pocket dimension out of fire, it suddenly means any other dimension I make is automatically made out of it.
7.) You do know you can only infuse your spirit energy with monsters when in dimension duels right? Thats an explict mechanic of that dueling format that cannot be done anywhere else. So its not even an abiliy of the duelists but what the duel itself grants them. And of course Yugi would see the same screens because its still a duel disk that has similar mechanical variations. It doesnt mean his is the same as Kaibas. Aside from shining energy, Kaibas duel disk runs the core basis of literally all Kaiba Corps technology. Yugis duel disk is just to play a game. Theres no comparing the two. And for Yugi and Kaiba not being destroyed by the Dark Plana unlike the public, thats simple PIS for the sake of plot since its a common trope of "good guy vs bad guy", that if the good guy fails evil wins. And Yugi and Kaiba were kinda the only ones in commision to fight Diva.
5.) Your misinterpreting stuff.
The light that came from Atem the moment he entered Yugis body wasnt reversing anything. It was the Plana being destroyed via his return as the proprechy dictates numerous times. You can see that when the streams of dark plana energy glow and then vanish. Plus nothing was actually restored until AFTER the Dark Plana Cube destroyed itself. If nothing else, the energy Atem unleashes was nothing more than power he lets out when transforming via Yugis body, which happens all the time in Yugioh. And once again, even with the benefit of the doubt and that its a legit feat, its still an outlier. Finally, if your gonna argue stuff like " Plana wasnt instantly destroyed, its still there", that is easily sake of plot so Atems final moment appearing is him defeating the enemy.
Rest of this point is circular arguments that i've covered here. Though I will say this. Nothing you put debunks the counter of Atem passively being 3-A, which is ridiculous as he'd destroy litrally anyone he faces just by standing doing absolutely nothing. And if yohr gonna say "then everyone and their mothers are just 3-A themselves", that makes it even more of a crazy outlier that will never be accepted.
>World was being restored as soon as the Pharaoh came back
Again, no it wasnt. It was being restored the instant after the Dark Plana Cube self-destructed. What happened when he came back was the Planas destruction. Your mixing things up.
6.) Okay and? The difference in distance between planet and universe is literally infinite. Not only does saying "either" still make it very speculative, but thinking its beyond planetary doesnt automaticslly mean universe. It can easily be solar, stellar, even galactic. All lower than Universe attack range but greater than Planetary attack range.
7.) Saying the Plana cube is far stronger than any item is not only somewhat false (remember, the Plana was amped by the Millenium Ring to even do the feat Corrupted Diva performed, so its a shared amp), but also helps me even more to show its an outlier.
Dragon Ball scaling =/= Yugiohs. Dont compare the 2. Dragon Ball has its own reasons for why they are where they are unlike Yugioh. Atem has never remotely done anything close to 3-A for the entire history of Yugioh before DsoD. Him suddenly doing such a casual feat that your arguing is tier 3 is blatently inconsistent with his level of power through the course of the series. Its the very textbook defintion of an outlier. Hell, if Atem was a 3-A (passively a 3-A at that), not only would dueling with cards be 1000% pointless as he'd stomp every opponent he ever came across just by being there, he'd also surpass the powers of monsters like Exodia, Zorc, The Egyptian Gods, and even Horakthy. And that is also ridiclous.
The movie leading up to it 100% does not matter as the entire series before DsoD portrays Atem as no where near this level. He doesnt even gain a power up or anything. He does this at random here, even if we take this as a feat. For something to not be an outlier, consistency is imporant and Atem certainly does not have any of that here just bu coming back for a few moments. If characters with far more stuff to their name dont get 3-A tiering because of outliers, Atem definitely isnt an exception.
8.) Beyond Multi-Planet range =/= affecting stars and the problem here is nothing shows stars and galaxies being consumed. We're ASUMMING they are just because of beyond planetary range, which is no where near enough and silly.
>No reason for Diva to spare them.
Doesnt matter much if he cant even reach them TO effect them. I could say I wouldnt spare the universe as many times as I want, im not a universal so its meaningless.
>Affecting the plana plane
Which is a different reality and can very well be in the same boat. We see the red clouds covering what the Dark Plana destroys so its very logical to say the planet would be covered by it.
>BFR people.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
9.) Plana abilities I actually agree with yes. In fact it may have even more but nows not the time to discuss hax.
10.) It is a memory as I clarified below. Joey outright says it via power of friendship. Ill continue this there as you likely have thoughts about it.
11.) Card lores, which have 0 evidence of those flashu entrances being legit. Theres a difference between saying, in lore, someone can destroy a universe and how flashy effects depict that. All the lore proves is they can destroy a universe. HOW its done is debatable.
Evidnece counters:
12.) And they turn golden and get destroyed because of his return to the world, as the prophecy dicates throughtout the whole movie. Has nothing to do with power. And that isnt even reversing effects.
>Supports you
It doesnt. Destroying the purple plana streams isnt reversing it and he destroyed them via his return, not power in any definition of the word. The reversal doesnt even start until Kaiba, Joey and everyone return along with the city and everything else. Your mixing up "reversal".
Also, strange you say not becausw of the prophecy, which literally dictates his return.
13.) That literally changes nothing. The system is being used TOGETHER with his duel disk, meaning Kaibas duel disk is explicty designed to run his technplogy network unlike any of the other duel disks. The fact his duel disk is being used as the catylst of the system to run his technology makes it incredibly different. Being separate doesnt mean much when they're used together.
14.) And how exactly does this change anything? Given the dimension he was in was strictly designed by memories, it only makes sense that Joey would use a memory too strong for Diva to erase, hence the " bond" Joey in the sub spoke of. Still power of friendship crap nontheless.
Done for now. And don't pull the "your wrong" stuff again this time. Im willing to restatt fresh again, and with staff here, its best no hostilty comes up again.
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Is it a nasty tone complain if i am just asking you to organize that bulk of text i have to read, analize and debunk, again?
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I'm gonna start banning if this continues.
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@Pachi
My apologies. All I was doing was posting my counter reply. Did not intend to restart any hostility.
My apologies. All I was doing was posting my counter reply. Did not intend to restart any hostility.
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Just bdfore he organizes his stuff.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
HEAD. CANON. Post stuff that it only covers people and the other items are kept intact. Because, i am pretty sure the darkness also made the stadium dissapear and not just like you so claim "cover it in darkness".
My god, this will be FUN.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
HEAD. CANON. Post stuff that it only covers people and the other items are kept intact. Because, i am pretty sure the darkness also made the stadium dissapear and not just like you so claim "cover it in darkness".
My god, this will be FUN.
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How many times do you have to be told to be civil?
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Last warning...
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How was that not civil? Anyways, sorry if you didnt find it to be that way.
I will take a while to write the entire rebuttal, so...please do wait for that.
I will take a while to write the entire rebuttal, so...please do wait for that.
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I didnt find that to be rude or anything.
If anything, he was just asking kukui to organize his argument.
If anything, he was just asking kukui to organize his argument.
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"Just bdfore he organizes his stuff.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
HEAD. CANON. Post stuff that it only covers people and the other items are kept intact. Because, i am pretty sure the darkness also made the stadium dissapear and not just like you so claim "cover it in darkness".
My god, this will be FUN."
^This is what they're probably refering to.
Yes people. Specific targets. Bfring people and covering the planet in darkness is very possible.
HEAD. CANON. Post stuff that it only covers people and the other items are kept intact. Because, i am pretty sure the darkness also made the stadium dissapear and not just like you so claim "cover it in darkness".
My god, this will be FUN."
^This is what they're probably refering to.
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"My god, this will be FUN."
Seriously, after everyone telling you to tone it down.
I don't care for Yugioh as a verse, I only want this to go through smoothly, so please, REFRAIN yourself from posting this kind of comments and stick to the revision. You are only derailing this by behaving like this.
Seriously, after everyone telling you to tone it down.
I don't care for Yugioh as a verse, I only want this to go through smoothly, so please, REFRAIN yourself from posting this kind of comments and stick to the revision. You are only derailing this by behaving like this.
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