You All Knew This Was Coming (13-3-0)

[DimeUhDozen]

• Speed Equalized

"Miss Walters, your witness...": Darkwolf355, The Gatememer, 1st_Virtue_Of_Pure_Void, LeoEpicGamer8910, MaidRips, Peppersalt43, jojo123, MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer, Lonkitt, Kisaragi_Megumi, Mariogoods, Psychomaster35, Maverick_Zero_X (13)
"Soon, the defense will rest... her fist upon your face...": Propellus, Coolboy6, Robo (3)
Incon:

 

[Lonkitt]

This is an interesting battle. On the surface, it may seem Phoenix's versatility could be too much here. However, he's got one fatal flaw:

He's really not a great fighter in terms of combat intelligence

Because of that detail, it evens things out, since She-Hulk is definitely a better combatant, and even has the advantage of what's essentially a ranged option Phoenix can't reliably counter given its sound based. Phoenix has a slight AP advantage and can even boost that with X-Factor or Turnabout Mode. I think a lot of Phoenix's success may come down to if he can manage to tap into that state, which in his case, won't be easy. He has to look for evidence after all, and Maya can only provide so much in terms of defence. Nothing's stopping She-Hulk, especially with the giant ass leaps she can make, from closing the distance and ragdolling him. Questioning may be able to stun her briefly enough to pick up some good evidence assuming Wright lands it in time. He's also got two different methods of healing, one of which does so passively. Order in the Court could provide Jennifer with some trouble as well. But really, I feel that Phoenix's best chance at winning here is negotiating with her, given how he talked down Galactus. Otherwise, I feel its more likely She-Hulk overwhelms him with her superior LS, experience as an actual fighter of sorts, and harder to counter ranged attacks (Thunderclaps)

Voting She-Hulk

 

[DimeUhDozen]

This is an interesting battle. On the surface, it may seem Phoenix's versatility could be too much here. However, he's got one fatal flaw:

He's really not a great fighter in terms of combat intelligence

Because of that detail, it evens things out, since She-Hulk is definitely a better combatant, and even has the advantage of what's essentially a ranged option Phoenix can't reliably counter given its sound based. Phoenis has a slight AP advantage and can even boost that with X-Factor or Turnabout Mode. I think a lot of Phoenix's success may come down to if he can manage to tap into that state, which in his case, won't be easy. He has to look for evidence after all, and Maya can only provide so much in terms of defence. Nothing's stopping She-Hulk, especially with the giant ass leaps she can make, from closing the distance and ragdolling him. Questioning may be able to stun her briefly enough to pick up some good evidence assuming Wright lands it in time. He's also got too different methods of healing, one of which does so passively. Order in the Court could provide Jennifer with some trouble as well. But really, I feel that Phoenix's best chance at winning here is negotiating with her, given how he talked down Galactus. Otherwise, I feel its more likely She-Hulk overwhelms him with her superior LS, experience as an actual fighter of sorts, and harder to counter ranged attacks (Thunderclaps)

Voting She-Hulk

One vote for She-Hulk.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Rare She-Hulk W FRA

 

[Propellus]

Finally Jen gets a win, so take my vote based on Lon's reasoning

 

[Mariogoods]

This is an interesting battle. On the surface, it may seem Phoenix's versatility could be too much here. However, he's got one fatal flaw:

He's really not a great fighter in terms of combat intelligence

Because of that detail, it evens things out, since She-Hulk is definitely a better combatant, and even has the advantage of what's essentially a ranged option Phoenix can't reliably counter given its sound based. Phoenix has a slight AP advantage and can even boost that with X-Factor or Turnabout Mode. I think a lot of Phoenix's success may come down to if he can manage to tap into that state, which in his case, won't be easy. He has to look for evidence after all, and Maya can only provide so much in terms of defence. Nothing's stopping She-Hulk, especially with the giant ass leaps she can make, from closing the distance and ragdolling him. Questioning may be able to stun her briefly enough to pick up some good evidence assuming Wright lands it in time. He's also got two different methods of healing, one of which does so passively. Order in the Court could provide Jennifer with some trouble as well. But really, I feel that Phoenix's best chance at winning here is negotiating with her, given how he talked down Galactus. Otherwise, I feel its more likely She-Hulk overwhelms him with her superior LS, experience as an actual fighter of sorts, and harder to counter ranged attacks (Thunderclaps)

Voting She-Hulk

As you have proposed deletion of that profile, IDK if this thread should be closed for now.

 

[Lonkitt]

As you have proposed deletion of that profile, IDK if this thread should be closed for now.

Mario, this is the revised profile I made after the deletion of the old one

 

[Propellus]

As you have proposed deletion of that profile, IDK if this thread should be closed for now.

It's a newer release of the page.

 

[Mariogoods]

Mario, this is the revised profile I made after the deletion of the old one

Then I vote to She-Hulk FRA.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

She-Hulk FRA

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Votes counted

 

[DarkwoIf335]

I'm gonna be the odd one out and go with Wright on this one.

First off, Turnabout Mode + X-Factor = easy win. Just straight up.

Secondly, expect the unexpected. Jennifer may be the more experienced of the two, but Nick is a whacky fighter who throws paper everywhere and sneezes on people to do damage. Skill isn't an immediate thing, she's gonna need time to figure out what the hell he's even doing. Time that Phoenix can use to gather evidence to activate the above mentioned Turnabout Mode (which also makes him less predictable).

Third times the charm, She-Hulks arrogance. For everyone saying thunderclap gg, is that really in character for her? Have you seen her opponent? He doesn't look like someone who could throw a punch and his unwillingness to fight only futher discredits his capabilities. If we hold one to their weaknesses, we should hold both.

Lastly, he has Maya and Missile. Even if you wanna say they're not gonna do much, they'll still do something, and their presence will make it 3 on 1 regardless.

 

[Lonkitt]

I'm gonna be the odd one out and go with Wright on this one.

First off, Turnabout Mode + X-Factor = easy win. Just straight up.

Not quite. Yes, X-Factor can be activated at any time. Turnabout Mode? Phoenix literally has to gather Good Evidence for that. This is by no means an "easy win" for Phoenix

Secondly, expect the unexpected. Jennifer may be the more experienced of the two, but Nick is a whacky fighter who throws paper everywhere and sneezes on people to do damage. Skill isn't an immediate thing, she's gonna need time to figure out what the hell he's even doing. Time that Phoenix can use to gather evidence to activate the above mentioned Turnabout Mode (which also makes him less predictable).

I'll agree with you there, his unpredictability could throw Jennifer off. Though I don't think he'd be so unpredictable that she'd need to stop mid-battle and try and figure out why he can do that

Third times the charm, She-Hulks arrogance. For everyone saying thunderclap gg, is that really in character for her? Have you seen her opponent? He doesn't look like someone who could throw a punch and his unwillingness to fight only futher discredits his capabilities. If we hold one to their weaknesses, we should hold both.

It actually wouldn't be a stretch to assume she'd do that. When Daredevil was avoiding ever single one of her attacks, she got pretty damn irritated and Thunderclapped him. If Phoenix's goofy combat methods are gonna end up annoying Jen, she may very well resort to the Thunderclap, which Wright can't counter

Lastly, he has Maya and Missile. Even if you wanna say they're not gonna do much, they'll still do something, and their presence will make it 3 on 1 regardless.

She'd dealt being tag teamed before. Maya certainly has some tricks that could somewhat throw Jennifer off given her more supernatural moveset. However, she and Missile aren't gonna be overpowering She-Hulk and more than likely get ragdolled hard

If She-Hulk can toss around demons trying to pile her, I really can't see Missile don't much here

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Not quite. Yes, X-Factor can be activated at any time. Turnabout Mode? Phoenix literally has to gather Good Evidence for that. This is by no means an "easy win" for Phoenix

By Turnabout Mode gg i meant that when activated it would let him win. The other arguments were moreso me arguing why he would get it in the first place.

I'll agree with you there, his unpredictability could throw Jennifer off. Though I don't think he'd be so unpredictable that she'd need to stop mid-battle and try and figure out why he can do that

It's less her stopping mid fight and more him getting several cheap shots off during said fight. I doubt she'll see him shooting energy beams from a phone coming, let alone an OBJECTION!

It actually wouldn't be a stretch to assume she'd do that. When Daredevil was avoiding ever single one of her attacks, she got pretty damn irritated and Thunderclapped him. If Phoenix's goofy combat methods are gonna end up annoying Jen, she may very well resort to the Thunderclap, which Wright can't counter

That was mid fight. She's not gonna lead with it. Also there's a difference between Daredevil and someone like Phoenix. One is an obviously skilled fighter while the other hides behind a teenage girl and throws random stuff at her. A better comparison would be something like the wrecking crew whom she's actively shown letting herself get hit by despite being fast enogh to dodge.

She'd dealt being tag teamed before. Maya certainly has some tricks that could somewhat throw Jennifer off given her more supernatural moveset. However, she and Missile aren't gonna be overpowering She-Hulk and more than likely get ragdolled hard

If She-Hulk can toss around demons trying to pile her, I really can't see Missile don't much here

Doesn't change the fact their presence means she has more to deal with. It's still a point in his favour, small as it may be.

 

[Lonkitt]

It's less her stopping mid fight and more him getting several cheap shots off during said fight. I doubt she'll see him shooting energy beams from a phone coming, let alone an OBJECTION!

Sure, that’s pretty bizarre. But given Jennifer’s Fourth Wall Breaking shenanigans, is it really so strange that she’ll be left a sitting duck? I doubt it. Plus, there’s the fact she can easily close the distance more reliably and wail on him like no tomorrow

That was mid fight. She's not gonna lead with it. Also there's a difference between Daredevil and someone like Phoenix. One is an obviously skilled fighter while the other hides behind a teenage girl and throws random stuff at her. A better comparison would be something like the wrecking crew whom she's actively shown letting herself get hit by despite being fast enogh to dodge.

That doesn’t mean she’s just gonna let Phoenix get free shots in. Hell, she didn’t even know who Daredevil was as a vigilante when she fought him. I don’t think she’s gonna play dumb and become a punching bag here

Doesn't change the fact their presence means she has more to deal with. It's still a point in his favour, small as it may be.

Sure, he does have strength in numbers, but they’d get ragdolled harder than even Phoenix would

 

[TheGatememer]

Would Maya be able to block She-Hulk's thunderclaps via her Forcefield?

 

[Lonkitt]

Yeah, Maya would be able to block them. The only problem is, I doubt she’d be able to time her Forcefield given she wouldn’t be able to sue the Thunderclap attack physically

 

[TheGatememer]

She doesn't really need to time them, since she can hold out her Forcefield iirc.

Phoenix would also be able to use this to his advantage to gather evidence, since it takes him like less than a second to collect a piece of evidence.

 

[Lonkitt]

She can hold it out for a bit, yeah. It’s just that she’d be better at blocking more visibly reactable attack

 

[DarkwoIf335]

One additional point i wanna bring up is that She-Hulk is more likely to banter mid fight. Something Phoenix doesn't do.

Sure, that’s pretty bizarre. But given Jennifer’s Fourth Wall Breaking shenanigans, is it really so strange that she’ll be left a sitting duck? I doubt it. Plus, there’s the fact she can easily close the distance more reliably and wail on him like no tomorrow

I wasn't arguing her being a sitting duck, i was arguing her ability to predict what Wright can do. A big factor in a fight comes down to limiting what the opponent can do, and she won't know what hers is capable of. Plus, she still has to get past Maya before she can wail on him. That's gonna give him some time to gather evidence.

That doesn’t mean she’s just gonna let Phoenix get free shots in. Hell, she didn’t even know who Daredevil was as a vigilante when she fought him. I don’t think she’s gonna play dumb and become a punching bag here

It also doesn't mean she'll lead with thunderclap. My argument isn't that she wouldn't go for it, it's that she wouldn't lead with it.

Sure, he does have strength in numbers, but they’d get ragdolled harder than even Phoenix would

And while that's happening Phoenix Wright gathers all the evidence he needs. Enter Turnabout X-Factor.

 

[Lonkitt]

One additional point i wanna bring up is that She-Hulk is more likely to banter mid fight. Something Phoenix doesn't do.

Banter, no. But talk? That’d actually very likely since his preferred method is negotiation rather than fighting. Which in that case, would be in his favour. Surprised you’re not covering that aspect since it’s quite honestly his strongest wincon aside from Turnabout Mode

I wasn't arguing her being a sitting duck, i was arguing her ability to predict what Wright can do. A big factor in a fight comes down to limiting what the opponent can do, and she won't know what hers is capable of. Plus, she still has to get past Maya before she can wail on him. That's gonna give him some time to gather evidence.

Getting past Maya really isn’t difficult. Maya can provide a solid defence, but her offence isn’t great and She-Hulk wouldn’t have any trouble tossing her aside

It also doesn't mean she'll lead with thunderclap. My argument isn't that she wouldn't go for it, it's that she wouldn't lead with it.

And that doesn’t mean she won’t use it at any point during the fight, in which case, Phoenix will be left vulnerable

And while that's happening Phoenix Wright gathers all the evidence he needs. Enter Turnabout X-Factor.

Eh. It’s possible, but it’s not as though Maya and Missile would be delaying her for awhile. And again, She-Hulk can close the distance pretty easily, as shown with her leaping again Hulk. Phoenix‘s only counter is Super Jumping away from that, in which he can’t search for evidence if he doesn’t have anything good at that point

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Banter, no. But talk? That’d actually very likely since his preferred method is negotiation rather than fighting. Which in that case, would be in his favour. Surprised you’re not covering that aspect since it’s quite honestly his strongest wincon aside from Turnabout Mode

To be fair, i just thought of it. But yeah, if the fight ever reaches a point in whitch they'll talk, Wright should win pretty handily.

Getting past Maya really isn’t difficult. Auto, she can provide a solid defence, but her offence isn’t great and She-Hulk wouldn’t have any trouble tossing her aside

Getting past Maya is still gonna take time. If she starts with her shield, she should be able to buy Phoenix enough time to gather evidence.

And that doesn’t mean she won’t use it at any point during the fight, in which case, Phoenix will be left vulnerable

Yes, but if that point is after Phoenix hit Turnabout Mode, it's no longer relevant. That mode could overwhelm her quite handily.

Eh. It’s possible, but it’s not as though Maya and Missile would be delaying her for awhile. And again, She-Hulk can close the distance pretty easily, as shown with her leaping again Hulk. Phoenix‘a only counter is Super Jumping away from that, in which he can’t search for evidence if he doesn’t have anything good at that point

So long as they buy enough time for Turnabout Mode. If they don't, he still has X-Factor to keep him alive longer.

The way i see the fight going Phoenix starts by calling Maya to shield, taking his opening to gather as much evidence as he can while Jen takes it down. Failiure to do so and he pops X-Factor, lasting him long enough to gather the remaining evidence. After that, he hits her with an OBJECTION! and proceeds to overwhelmher with sheer AoE.

 

[Lonkitt]

To be fair, i just thought of it. But yeah, if the fight ever reaches a point in whitch they'll talk, Wright should win pretty handily.

Like I said in the MvC discussion chat, Jen is a much better fighter while Phoenix is a much better lawyer

Getting past Maya is still gonna take time. If she starts with her shield, she should be able to buy Phoenix enough time to gather evidence.

It’s not untrue that her shield will be useful for Phoenix to gain evidence. I just don’t think she’ll be able to keep that up for more as much time as you’re saying she would since Jen has a few ways to get around that

Yes, but if that point is after Phoenix hit Turnabout Mode, it's no longer relevant. That mode could overwhelm her quite handily.

Turnabout Mode would give Phoenix the win, but if she breaks out the Thunderclap even shortly before he can access that, he’s likely finished

The way i see the fight going Phoenix starts by calling Maya to shield, taking his opening to gather as much evidence as he can while Jen takes it down. Failiure to do so and he pops X-Factor, lasting him long enough to gather the remaining evidence. After that, he hits her with an OBJECTION! and proceeds to overwhelmher with sheer AoE.

Why would Jen fail to get past it?

A) Maya can only keep up the shield for a bit
B) Jen can literally leap over to where Wright is in the first place
C) Nothing’s stopping Jen from side stepping and smacking away Maya
D) Popping X-Factor won’t guarantee he’ll be able to keep Jen at bay long enough to get more evidence

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Like I said in the MvC discussion chat, Jen is a much better fighter while Phoenix is a much better lawyer

True

It’s not untrue that her shield will be useful for Phoenix to gain evidence. I just don’t think she’ll be able to keep that up for more as much time as you’re saying she would since Jen has a few ways to get around that

He can still call her in multiple times a match. Plus, it doesn't take Phoenix that long to gather new evidence. So long as he can pull it off consistently, or he gets lucky, he's good.

Turnabout Mode would give Phoenix the win, but if she breaks out the Thunderclap even shortly before he can access that, he’s likely finished

Fair. I still think he can pull it off.

Why would Jen fail to get past it?

A) Maya can only keep up the shield for a bit
B) Jen can literally leap over to where Wright is in the first place
C) Nothing’s stopping Jen from side stepping and smacking away Maya
D) Popping X-Factor won’t guarantee he’ll be able to keep Jen at bay long enough to get more evidence

I meant failiure for Wright to get the evidence he needs. X-Factor heals him while active hence why him using it lets him last longer, thus giving him more opportunity to get Turnabout Mode.

 

[Lonkitt]

He can still call her in multiple times a match. Plus, it doesn't take Phoenix that long to gather new evidence. So long as he can pull it off consistently, or he gets lucky, he's good.

I’d say it comes down to how She-Hulk first responds to her. If she goes for a leap or simply finds another way to move past her, Maya can still be called in multiple times. If Jen smacks her aside, then Phoenix will be left more open. I personally think the latter is more likely given Jennifer’s character. The former is still possible

I meant failiure for Wright to get the evidence he needs. X-Factor heals him while active hence why him using it lets him last longer, thus giving him more opportunity to get Turnabout Mode.

Ahhh. I see what you mean. Yeah that’s not untrue

 

[TheGatememer]

Even if She-Hulk restrains Phoenix, he can still call in the Judge to knock away both of them.

And don’t know if this would be a game mechanic, but Phoenix Wright is barely harmed by the Gavel, so it shouldn’t hinder him that much even if he is also hit by it

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Voting Phoenix Wright if that wasn't obvious by now.

 

[Lonkitt]

And don’t know if this would be a game mechanic, but Phoenix Wright is barely harmed by the Gavel, so it shouldn’t hinder him that much even if he is also hit by it

Nah it’s not a game mechanic, we consider that a legitimate durability feat for Phoenix given he only scales to his own feats. I did mention earlier that “Order in the Court!” would be an effective tool here, so I agree with you. It just depends if he has a chance to use it while She-Hulk’s beating on him

 

[Coolboy6]

Mommy She Hulk FRA

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Nah it’s not a game mechanic, we consider that a legitimate durability feat for Phoenix given he only scales to his own feats. I did mention earlier that “Order in the Court!” would be an effective tool here, so I agree with you. It just depends if he has a chance to use it while She-Hulk’s beating on him

Worth noting is that "order in the court" gets rid of all bad evidence.

 

[Lonkitt]

Worth noting is that "order in the court" gets rid of all bad evidence.

It’s a very chad Hyper Combo

 

[TheGatememer]

Nah it’s not a game mechanic, we consider that a legitimate durability feat for Phoenix given he only scales to his own feats. I did mention earlier that “Order in the Court!” would be an effective tool here, so I agree with you. It just depends if he has a chance to use it while She-Hulk’s beating on him

He should, since it seems it can be activated even while he’s in the middle of something

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Can i just say i really feel like Phoenix Wright in this thread. I came here to a 5-0 and have been having a tense back and forth with Lon about how the fighting itself would play out. If Wright wins this, i've peaked as a debator.

 

[Lonkitt]

Can i just say i really feel like Phoenix Wright in this thread. I came here to a 5-0 and have been having a tense back and forth with Lon about how the fighting itself would play out. If Wright wins this, i've peaked as a debator.

We are literally debating which lawyer should win here. It doesn’t get more poetic than this

 

[DarkwoIf335]

Why have i just now realised Wrights SI is a perfect counter to the thunderclaps? Both are perfectly valid wincons that each of them can pull off at any given moment to insta-win the fight. The difference being Phoenix is more likely to use it first due to She-Hulks tendency to banter. He just has to respond to it and he wins. Meanwhile Jen doesn't lead with hers and is more likely to use it later on in the fight.

 

[TheGatememer]

Going to vote Phoenix Wright for Darkwolf’s reasons, plus his added AP advantage + X factor + possibly Turnabout mode

 

[Tots_Real]

What's the chances of Write going full Talkie-No-Justu on her and try and convince She-Hulk stop fighting? (Or at least give him enough time to obtain evidence)

 

[DarkwoIf335]

What's the chances of Write going full Talkie-No-Justu on her and try and convince She-Hulk stop fighting? (Or at least give him enough time to obtain evidence)

Pretty good, actually. It's how he beat Galactus in his ending. Like i said above, all he has to do is respond to her banter. Plenty of chances for that to happen.

 

[Lonkitt]

What's the chances of Write going full Talkie-No-Justu on her and try and convince She-Hulk stop fighting? (Or at least give him enough time to obtain evidence)

Like Darkwolf said, actually pretty high given he prefers not to get into fights

 

[DimeUhDozen]

This is actually closer than I expected it to be.