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YoRHa No.2 Type B vs Rias Gremory
- Thread starter StorytellingDemonKing
- Start date
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,139
- 14,395
Stomp, Rias can't interact with AE type 1 that look like based on concept and information and based on 2B profile, she just dura neg Rias via 4D spatial hax. The only thing Rias has advantage is her natural ability to fly, but i doubt it can allow her to have an incon
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Hmmm...I'll have to do heavy research into Rias. I know plenty about 2B but nothing about DxD.
I do feel 2B takes the edge on this. From my glance, they are pretty even when it comes to speed, strength, and durability, the two are very evenly matched. But it seems 2B has answers to all of Rias's abilities. She can fly, but 2B has fought flying enemies on foot. And that's if we don't grant her a flight unit. And it's unlikely that the elemental manipulation can move at the speed of light, something which 2B dodges on the regular. And memory manipulation doesn't really apply to a synthetic.
Both attack potency and durability match each other.
Both are magic utilizers. Rias is a magic wielding demon and 2B runs on magic.
Power of destruction is worrisome for 2B. 2B's survived things that normally disintegrate matter but those were not magic so same rules don't apply. It seems power of destruction can be unleashed as either a blast or shoot them out like bullets. For the blasts, it will depend on how big it is and how fast the spell moves. 2B can dodge things like short ranged EMP bursts but once it gets to long range, she can't do much. As for the bullets, I'd like to know how big of an area of effect each one has. Does one bullet disintegrate matter the size of said bullet, or does the entire object get erased from existence? That being said, it disintegrates matter and 2B's defenses include energy shields which should solve that issue. Though there is the existence erasure part. Has there been a case of something surviving that? Cuz from the description, it seems like a move that can disregard durability.
Hmmm...power of destruction vs energy shielding. Would the shield, not being made of matter, be able to withstand that spell? Or does the existence erasure mean it won't? And if it doesn't, will it only erase the shield or the person under it as well?
There's also star of extinction having a magnetic pull. How strong is that magnetic field? Depending on its strength, 2B may begin seeing system malfunctions.
I was initially about to say that 2B's abstraction and immortality shouldn't be considered. But I think it would be a very interesting pair up to power of destruction. Power of destruction seems to be something that could under normal circumstances destroy an AE (would I be correct in assuming that?). But the things impacted by PoD seem to be spiritual and 2B's abstraction is a data-based concept.
If 2B doesn't get access to a flight unit, I can see a deadlock where Rias flies high then the two forever use ranged attacks that the other can dodge.
As mentioned, my knowledge of DxD is limited to what I'm reading on the vs page and their wiki page. But I do think 2B edges out on this one on the grounds she can provide answers to all of Rias's moves, though it seems 2B would have reason to be worried. Several of Rias's abilities certainly seem to hold the potential to one shot 2B, namely power of destruction and star of extinction
I do feel 2B takes the edge on this. From my glance, they are pretty even when it comes to speed, strength, and durability, the two are very evenly matched. But it seems 2B has answers to all of Rias's abilities. She can fly, but 2B has fought flying enemies on foot. And that's if we don't grant her a flight unit. And it's unlikely that the elemental manipulation can move at the speed of light, something which 2B dodges on the regular. And memory manipulation doesn't really apply to a synthetic.
Both attack potency and durability match each other.
Both are magic utilizers. Rias is a magic wielding demon and 2B runs on magic.
Power of destruction is worrisome for 2B. 2B's survived things that normally disintegrate matter but those were not magic so same rules don't apply. It seems power of destruction can be unleashed as either a blast or shoot them out like bullets. For the blasts, it will depend on how big it is and how fast the spell moves. 2B can dodge things like short ranged EMP bursts but once it gets to long range, she can't do much. As for the bullets, I'd like to know how big of an area of effect each one has. Does one bullet disintegrate matter the size of said bullet, or does the entire object get erased from existence? That being said, it disintegrates matter and 2B's defenses include energy shields which should solve that issue. Though there is the existence erasure part. Has there been a case of something surviving that? Cuz from the description, it seems like a move that can disregard durability.
Hmmm...power of destruction vs energy shielding. Would the shield, not being made of matter, be able to withstand that spell? Or does the existence erasure mean it won't? And if it doesn't, will it only erase the shield or the person under it as well?
There's also star of extinction having a magnetic pull. How strong is that magnetic field? Depending on its strength, 2B may begin seeing system malfunctions.
I was initially about to say that 2B's abstraction and immortality shouldn't be considered. But I think it would be a very interesting pair up to power of destruction. Power of destruction seems to be something that could under normal circumstances destroy an AE (would I be correct in assuming that?). But the things impacted by PoD seem to be spiritual and 2B's abstraction is a data-based concept.
If 2B doesn't get access to a flight unit, I can see a deadlock where Rias flies high then the two forever use ranged attacks that the other can dodge.
As mentioned, my knowledge of DxD is limited to what I'm reading on the vs page and their wiki page. But I do think 2B edges out on this one on the grounds she can provide answers to all of Rias's moves, though it seems 2B would have reason to be worried. Several of Rias's abilities certainly seem to hold the potential to one shot 2B, namely power of destruction and star of extinction
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,139
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How the hell Rias gonna interact with AE type 1, she has no feats
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She might not be able to. I did say I wasn't sure what Power of Destruction could entail
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,139
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Rias and all of DxD cast at best can interact with spirit and soul, but there is no AE type 1 in the verse, so no, Rias can't interact with 2B. And 2B have all the shit Rias don't resist like concept and information hax, 4d spatial hax that will just ignore all the defensive power Rias can bring up
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Just two questions before this Vs thread potentially gets closed or changed for being a stomp.
1) Is 2B physically AE type 1 or is it just her AI? (The profile makes it seem like its the latter).
2) Where's the 7-A jurisdiction for 2B and others like her? I went through multiple profiles and saw circular scaling with no calculation or blog.
EDiT: Nvm I believe AP is scaled to durability via this. The AP section and verse page kinda need updating it seems.
1) Is 2B physically AE type 1 or is it just her AI? (The profile makes it seem like its the latter).
2) Where's the 7-A jurisdiction for 2B and others like her? I went through multiple profiles and saw circular scaling with no calculation or blog.
EDiT: Nvm I believe AP is scaled to durability via this. The AP section and verse page kinda need updating it seems.
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Just the AI. She can't interact with the physical world without a body. It's also why I initially felt it should not be regarded for the fight since I don't like the idea of a win based on infinite respawning.
But yeah, the verse page and many on it are behind the times.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,139
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to be fair, i don't even know either, just play the game for some enjoyments, but man i don't even know 2B have all these power, but i do think she need physical body to interact with the world, still, i'm not know much about these thing, just based on her profile to comment
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well it seem that ae 1 is just her AI,and immortal type 4 and 8 aren't combat applied,so yeah this fight can process
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I'd like to hear more about this dura negation. As someone who has played Nier Automata, there are abilities she possess that I've never seen. Not only that but it seems to be universal and that every single character has it. Also doesn't help that the profiles lack any scans or references for these abilities, so I can't even check the source.
So I'm somewhat skeptical of all this. I'm certain they have proper reason of some kind, but I feel like the profiles have only gotten worse over time.
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This will be an unpopular question, but is 2B's ability to return due to her mind being backed up really combat applicable under standard rules? If someone shatters her body or otherwise kills it, something we know can happen due to all the dead android bodies we see during the story, she can no longer do anything. She needs someone else, the establishment on the moon, to bring out a new body and add her backed up information to it.
Can that even be used in a battle, given that it requires a system 2B doesn't control as part of her powers and also requires other people to fix her up? What's more, didn't that system go down at the end of the game, leaving 2B and 9S with only their current bodies, no backups?
Can that even be used in a battle, given that it requires a system 2B doesn't control as part of her powers and also requires other people to fix her up? What's more, didn't that system go down at the end of the game, leaving 2B and 9S with only their current bodies, no backups?
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I'm in agreement with Random. It's just cheap if it's victory from infinite respawns.
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My knowledge of Rias is limited so I have a few questions.
How fast does Power of Destruction travel? It has its explosion form and its bullet form. If it travels at the speed of light then 2B will have problems. They hate light speed attacks.
How large is PoD as an explosion? If too large then 2B will get caught in it. Even if it is slower than light. We've seen her get caught in a nuke before.
What will PoD do against energy constructs? Shields and the like. PoD disintegrates matter but what about solid energy? Will it still make it disappear? And what about the person beneath it? If she throws up an energy shield in response to PoD will the shield stop it? Will it be destroyed but leave the user alive? Or will both shield and user die?
Also, the bullet form of PoD. How large of an area does it disintegrate? Does it disintegrate an area equivalent to the size of the bullet? Or does the whole body go? Or is there a penetrative factor where it'll disintegrate everything in its flight path?
How fast does Power of Destruction travel? It has its explosion form and its bullet form. If it travels at the speed of light then 2B will have problems. They hate light speed attacks.
How large is PoD as an explosion? If too large then 2B will get caught in it. Even if it is slower than light. We've seen her get caught in a nuke before.
What will PoD do against energy constructs? Shields and the like. PoD disintegrates matter but what about solid energy? Will it still make it disappear? And what about the person beneath it? If she throws up an energy shield in response to PoD will the shield stop it? Will it be destroyed but leave the user alive? Or will both shield and user die?
Also, the bullet form of PoD. How large of an area does it disintegrate? Does it disintegrate an area equivalent to the size of the bullet? Or does the whole body go? Or is there a penetrative factor where it'll disintegrate everything in its flight path?
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- Thread starter
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I equalized the speed. Also if it isn't listed as an SoL attack on Rias profile then they aren't. But under speed equal, they will be because IIRC speed gets equalized to the fastest opponent, which is 2B. (though maybe I'm wrong and if they are projectiles they won't be equalized.)
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That takes times and that might actually not been combat applicable
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Needs to be on the profile period. Forcing people to have to read through a CRT to understand abilities is absurd.
I'm also trying to avoid spoilers for the rest of Nier. Planning on going through the entire series one day. That includes the really old stuff.
That's why I'm not actively looking up scans myself. I just have a lot things going on to focus solely on Nier right now. And I don't want to go in without my full attention.
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- Thread starter
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Fr. I have started the game but can't finish it since I'm in a different country working. But when I get home after summer vacation I also want to finish the Nier series. Looks peak of fr fr
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Even if it was combat applicable, I think we should ignore it as it essentially amounts to infinite respawns and that's just cheap.
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It is not really infinite respawns if the base is destroyed and is unable to get the body repaired.
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Plus the base has finite resources so it's not infinite anyway. And that's before the base and all the other androids go down at the end.
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Whichever the case, I think we can agree destruction of the body should be enough to consider a win.
I also think the four questions I posed will be the determining factor (mind you I'm only looking at this in terms of 2B's weaknesses). The PoD speed is important because YoRHa HATE things that move at the speed of light. So of MG PoD has a SoL muzzle velocity then it could easily gun her down.
I also think the four questions I posed will be the determining factor (mind you I'm only looking at this in terms of 2B's weaknesses). The PoD speed is important because YoRHa HATE things that move at the speed of light. So of MG PoD has a SoL muzzle velocity then it could easily gun her down.
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A bit late, but IIRC Nier Automata also has multiple endings too
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I don't think it matters either way. She needs a structure that she doesn't control to store her backed up memories and her replacement bodies, and she needs other androids to bring out the body and plug the memories into it. It isn't her own power entirely, and she can't return from her body being destroyed under her own power.
In addition, the elephant in the room, if you destroy her current body and copy of her memories, the backup has been shown to be capable of not being up to date, meaning it technically isn't the same 2B, just an exact replica of her at the time of backup. Technically the exact entity that is present in the body gets destroyed. It's a duplicate that gets brought out to replace it.
So she not only can't return under her own power, she technically isn't returning at all, so much as being copied. Under incapacitation standards, she can't return unless other characters bring her back and it isn't even the same her that returns. So I'd have to say she's incapacitated if her body is destroyed.
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Regardless of what's being said about her type 8 Immor, what really matters is if Rias can really kill 2B in the first place and I really don't see how at all Rias can even tickle 2B. She has plenty of haxes that make her untouchable whether it be AE or an unlisted one like Instinctive Reaction via Auto-Dodge and she just can screw over Rias in many different ways. My vote is on 2B
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Isn't the abstract existence also to do with being backed up to the station's computer?
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More like the N2 was an abstract being and the androids and went copy and paste when developing YoRHa consciousnesses.
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Okay, but does that allow her to function after having her body destroyed because she still exists as a powerful abstract being, or anything like that, or is it another thing that is not combat-applicable?
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Not combat applicable.
I think Rias's win condition should be simple: can she destroy the 2B body standing before her?
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Well, 2B has the skill advantage, and I don't think Rias has ever won against enemies who can dodge as well as 2B can.
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I think 2B edges out. I won't call it a stomp since I can see plenty of ways Rias can win (at least from what I can tell. Not familiar with her verse). But it seems 2B either has a hard counter or experience countering what Rias dishes out.
Energy shields and constructs can't really be disintegrated since it's made of energy and not matter. 2B could leap out of the way of PoD's blast (experience dodging explosions and close range EMP). She should be able to dodge PoD MG fire (lots of experience on that front. Deflect is probably a bad idea if it disintegrates since it'll just make 2B lose a lot of swords). 2B's android body will out last Rias in endurance. Also, YoRHa combat skill is programmed rather than learned and updated through data syncs so 2B would have more skill than Rias as well. And 2B has a flight unit. And Star of Extinction takes time to charge up.
Rias can win by spamming PoD MG fire and moving away. If light speed or faster, it's in the range YoRHa begin getting hit. So Rias can spam and run until 2B makes a mistake then gets gunned down. Star of Extinction may also pose a problem due to its magnetic field. It'll depend on how strong it is but it could potentially mess with 2B's systems and she'd not only have to avoid the star itself but the area covered by the magnetic field.
Though I am assuming several things:
If these 3 things are wrong (energy shields cannot stop PoD, the PoD explosion covers hundreds of meters and not just tens, and PoD bullets can disintegrate an entire person so even a graze can make the whole body vanish) then I'd swing the other direction and give Rias.
Energy shields and constructs can't really be disintegrated since it's made of energy and not matter. 2B could leap out of the way of PoD's blast (experience dodging explosions and close range EMP). She should be able to dodge PoD MG fire (lots of experience on that front. Deflect is probably a bad idea if it disintegrates since it'll just make 2B lose a lot of swords). 2B's android body will out last Rias in endurance. Also, YoRHa combat skill is programmed rather than learned and updated through data syncs so 2B would have more skill than Rias as well. And 2B has a flight unit. And Star of Extinction takes time to charge up.
Rias can win by spamming PoD MG fire and moving away. If light speed or faster, it's in the range YoRHa begin getting hit. So Rias can spam and run until 2B makes a mistake then gets gunned down. Star of Extinction may also pose a problem due to its magnetic field. It'll depend on how strong it is but it could potentially mess with 2B's systems and she'd not only have to avoid the star itself but the area covered by the magnetic field.
Though I am assuming several things:
- energy shields can stop PoD
- PoD's explosion covers tens of meters
- PoD's MG fire disintegrates an area roughly the size of its bullet (so softball size).
If these 3 things are wrong (energy shields cannot stop PoD, the PoD explosion covers hundreds of meters and not just tens, and PoD bullets can disintegrate an entire person so even a graze can make the whole body vanish) then I'd swing the other direction and give Rias.
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- Thread starter
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I will take that as a vote for 2B then.
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Rias' power of destruction failed against Riser Phoenix because when she blasted off his limbs he just regenerated them, so it doesn't seem likely that it can erase the whole body through a graze.
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