NieR: Replicant/Automata Epic Revisions

[Hecatia_Gaming]

So I completed Automata not so long.

First things first:

This is the best game ever made in existence.

Now with that stated we can continue with this.

Through my research of lore and extra information, I found many interesting details that could be added to the profiles.

Let's start then~.

Ah yeah. If someone here somehow still didn't finished the game yet, then please don't look at this. Please, don't ruin your experience, because there's A LOT of spoilers of the game. So please close this and open that NieR:Automata file in your computer and finish the game!

Now with that warning made let's start for real.

Magical Technology and Those Weird Lights​

So let's start by saying that all the characters in NieR:Automata needs to have listed Magic in their profiles.

Why? Well it's pretty simple.

First, there's the existence of Maso particles. These are basically the things that allow the usage of magic through the whole series, from Drakengard, to Automata.

And even if in the recent timeline this particles is nearly inexistent, there are still a considerable amount of it, and in fact, is being constantly used by both YoRHa and Machines.

There are some magical weapons there:

"A magical blade used by a royal family."

Some experiments to fuse this particle to recent weapons were made:

Development Journal: 0704 Takada
The boss turned down my idea of infusing metallic alloys with magical elements. Thrice-damned fool! Doesn't he see how much money we could make from this?

The Pods use the same angelic runes in Replicant and Drakengard to cast their abilities/magic:

Pods are also able to translate angelic language

Not enough? Well, we have this:

Q38. Does the demonic element (maso) exist in this world as well? How is it used in battle?

There’s not a lot of demonic element going around, but it does exist (for example, Emil’s attacks). Also, the YoRHa units’ skills utilize the demonic element.

A direct statement from Yoko Taro himself stating that the YoRHa units uses Maso for their abilities. As clean as a river.

So yeah, Magic for YoRHa Androids... but that's not all.

Exactly what those Maso brings besides magic?

As the page I quoted before says:

Maso (魔素, lit. "magic element") is the name given to an extradimensional chemical element brought into the NieR world by the Dragon and the Giant.

Maso itself is an extradimensional element instead of a "natural" one.

Also stated here:

May 5, 2033

[Summary]

Through the use of maso technology related to multidimensional worlds, 13 activation systems have been completed—including "Grimoire Noir." We have also confirmed that these systems can be used to return Gestalts to their Replicant forms once the White Chlorination Syndrome has been fully eliminated.

Work necessary for this system will be continued by the "Grimoire Noir Project" work group.

So Maso can be treated as a higher-dimensional particle, due to all its relations with multidimensional realities and extradimensional planes.

Not only that, but also we see how the Maso-related abilities warp space around. I can't give a specific showcase, so I will leave this here for now.


And it's stated to be able to ignore all systems of defense, which I think qualify for Durability Negation.

Moreover, Maso correlates with quantum mechanics, and thanks to this connection is able to recollect the history of the world, and the information of everyone there, thus, being able to create perfect copies of someone thanks to that information.

Summarizing, all Maso users (basically everyone in-verse) should have the following abilities:

-Magic
-Higher-Dimensional Manipulation
-Spatial Manipulation
-Durability Negation
-Quantum Manipulation
-Information Manipulation

Should be also noted that, as they clearly are tanking attacks based on this energy, they also gain resistance to the aforementioned abilities.

Amazing, right? Well, that's not all I have to say.

Mechanical Cores in a Semi-Philosophical Way​

Now let's talk about a more strange topic related to Machines and YoRHa Androids.

But first, remember this:

(Top Secret) Black Box

[Top Secret] Black Box is an archive in NieR:Automata. It contains information pertaining to the black boxes installed in each YoRHa android. Found on the fourth floor of the Soul Box. It will be the last item encountered, depending on whichever chest 9S chooses to unlock first.

nier.fandom.com

The following document details the final stages of Project YoRHa.

(Note that this document has been marked with Level-SS confidentiality, and should not be disclosed to any YoRHa personnel, including the Bunker commander.)

[Black Box]

Each YoRHa unit is equipped with a "black box", an item created by reusing the core of a machine lifeform. As such, it could be said that the consciousnesses of YoRHa units and machine lifeforms share the same structure. Said black boxes were installed after determining that it would be inhumane to install standard AI in androids that are ultimately destined for disposal.

(For the record, malfunctioning black boxes have caused some YoRHa units to turn hostile.)

This is essentially stating that both machines and YoRHa androids are the same being, has the same structure, and have the same conscience. So, with that being said, most parts regarding this are interchangeable between YoRHa and Machine (obviously not everything, like the fusionism capability of Machines, but the essentials yes).

So why this matters?

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell...

Machine Research Report

Machine Research Report is an archive in NieR:Automata. Contained is an analysis on the machine lifeform network and their intelligence, which resulted in a never-ending stalemate between the androids and machines as described by the android Jackass. This archive can be obtained by playing the...

nier.fandom.com

Overview

While the machine lifeform network was destroyed following the collapse of the Tower, a great deal of previously unknown information regarding machine lifeforms and aliens was recovered from the wreckage.

As part of this analysis, we compiled research and conjecture regarding both the machine lifeform network and the lifeform Codename N2⁠—commonly known as the Red Girls⁠—that was thought to have been commanding them.

- Machine lifeforms are weapons created by the aliens. The only command given for their behavior was to "defeat the enemy." However, it appears that their capacity for growth and evolution went too far, and they eventually turned on and killed their creators.

- At this point, machine lifeforms recognized that the goal of "defeating the enemy" actually REQUIRED an enemy. In order to maintain this singular objective, they reached the contradictory conclusion that their current enemies⁠—the androids⁠—could not be annihilated completely, lest they no longer have an enemy to defeat.

- In order to resolve this inherent contradiction, the machine lifeforms began to intentionally cause deficiencies in their network, diversifying the vectors of evolution for all machines. This is the cause behind some of the more "special" machine lifeforms, such as Pascal and the Forest King.

- Meanwhile, the deficient network began repeating the process of self-repair while incorporating surrounding information, until it finally reached a fixed state as a new form of network. Traces of information regarding human memories from the quantum server of the old model were discovered, indicating that it had integrated them during the final stages of its growth process. Said server contained a record of the discarded "Project Gestalt," as well as information on the human who was the first successful example of the Gestalt process.

- Having acquired information regarding humanity, the network's structure changed once more, becoming what might better be called a meta network (or a "concept", to borrow the words of the machines). This led directly to the formation of the ego we identify as N2.

...So then! To sum up: For hundreds of years, we've been fighting a network of machines with the ghost of humanity at its core. We've been living in a stupid ******* world where we fight an endless war that WE COULDN'T POSSIBLY LOSE, all for the sake of some Council of Humanity on the moon that doesn't even exist.

I don't know what the point is to all this, but I swear I will kill every evolutionary dead-end machine lifeform, as well as every single asshole behind Project YoRHa.

I'm coming for all your heads. **** you.

Information Analysis Officer,
Jackass

This is pretty clear: Machine Network basically transcended itself, to a point of becoming an even more developed AI. Not only that, but also, after compiling the information of Project Gestalt, it transformed into something beyond, a meta-network, a concept itself.

Further support for this is N2 statement, explaining how they are conceptual images of human personalities within the Machine Network, and thus, they can't be destroyed.

Please remember that N2 is basically the whole Network itself, and so, this nature should be shared with every Machine Lifeform.

Which gives to all of them Type 1 Abstract Existence.

"But Hecatia,, then why they have a physical body if they are abstracts?"

And that's because their physical bodies aren't they true beings. The physical bodies are just objects brought so they can totally interact with the physical world, but the true core of a Machine isn't physical at all, and they exist within the Network itself.

Further prove for this is Ending D, which shows us how the data of machines exist beyond they physical bodies, and is collected within the Ark.

And remember that YoRHa = Machine?

Well with that said it's clear that characters such as 2B, A2, and 9S should also gain this ability, and with them it's more direct how they don't rely on physical bodies, as this aren't part of their beings, but are something provided by the Council of the Moon so they can fight.

I think that, as most of their abilities come from the network too, perhaps some Data Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation could be given? Well, I'll leave that here anyway.

Well. With that being said, I think this thread can be finally finish-LIE.

Undertalen't​

I talked about the nature of Maso. I talked about the metaphysics of Machine and YoRHa Network. So what's left?

Well, now I'm going to talk about a weird unknown event present throughout the whole NieR, and Drakengard, series.

First, let's remember that both games are connected within the same verse.

The whole plot of NieR:Replicant was caused due to Drakengard's Ending E.

Heck, the connection between the games is literally further supported by the existence of Maso, which was something originally from Drakengard.

Even in NieR:Automata is stated the existence of Drakengard with this:

Project Gestalt Report 1

Project Gestalt Report 1 is an archive in NieR:Automata. It is the first installment in a series of reports detailing past events concerning the White Chlorination Syndrome. This archive can be acquired alongside Report 2 and 3 by hacking a node in the Abandoned Factory during 9S's attempt to...

nier.fandom.com

March 12, 2014

[Summary]

The proliferation of the White Chlorination Syndrome that emerged in 2003—alongside the appearance of the "Giant" and "Dragon"—has continued unabated, and outbreaks are now being observed on a global scale. Despite being researched in laboratories across the world, not only have there been no breakthroughs in the development of a vaccine to prevent infection, we have yet to ascertain how it even spreads.

However, many technological breakthroughs have been made as a result of research conducted on the "maso" particle that was discovered at that same time. We are confident that the technology it enables — the separation of the soul from the body and the independent preservation of both — will be the final defense against the unprecedented threat to humanity we now face.

Now that the project has passed from preparation into the main implementation phase, we have given it the official name "Project Gestalt".

So it's an objective fact that both games are connected.

And why this matters at all?

Due to this:

Timelines

The timelines of the Drakengard series, including all the possible outcomes and routes. Primarily based on information included in the Drag-on Dragoon World Inside book that was included with the 10th Anniversary Box.[1] Additional sources are stated next to the events they relate to. Setting...

drakengard.fandom.com

This event produced what is called the Multiple-World Divergence Phenomenon: when a group of "singularities" (most commonly special sentient beings) come together, splits occur in a timeline of events. This phenomenon has affected the course of events in Midgard for generations to come.

This event basically affects the main protagonists of each game, which guides them throughout each of the endings, dividing the timeline in the process.

More evidence can be see here:
1:27:56 <- Exact time of the statement.

And in the official guide:

Japanese Direct Translation

[Singularities]

A special person, place, or thing that triggers a shift within the [Multiverse]. This phenomenon is triggered when a certain amount of Maso is gathered in an area and all other conditions are met. However, the “singularity” cannot be recorded until the existence of a new branch can be confirmed.

English Localized Version

[SingulArities]

Persons, plACes, or things thAt Can trigger A Divergence, or Branch, Across multiple worlDs. Branch phenomenA oCCur when enough mAgiC pArtiCles Are in An AreA, AnD All relevAnt ConDitions Are met. However, A singulArity is not reCorDeD As suCh until After A Branch oCCurs.

So from what I see, this could give to the protagonists Space-Time Manipulation, and Causality Manipulation, and Multiversal range through the Multiple-World Divergence Phenomenon. It should be limited tho, but something really interesting anyway.



So yeah. With all that being said I finally finished. There are some other minor abilities that needs to be added, like the Fusionism, Type 8 Immortality, Reactive Evolution, and Regeneration for Machines. But I still need to find some more scans for that, so until that, this are the essentials and more important additions.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So I completed Automata not so long.

First things first:

This is the best game ever made in existence.

Now with that stated we can continue with this.

Through my research of lore and extra information, I found many interesting details that could be added to the profiles.

Let's start then~.

Ah yeah. If someone here somehow still didn't finished the game yet, then please don't look at this. Please, don't ruin your experience, because there's A LOT of spoilers of the game. So please close this and open that NieR:Automata file in your computer and finish the game!

Now with that warning made let's start for real.

Magical Technology and Those Weird Lights​

So let's start by saying that all the characters in NieR:Automata needs to have listed Magic in their profiles.

Why? Well it's pretty simple.

First, there's the existence of Maso particles. These are basically the things that allow the usage of magic through the whole series, from Drakengard, to Automata.

And even if in the recent timeline this particles is nearly inexistent, there are still a considerable amount of it, and in fact, is being constantly used by both YoRHa and Machines.

There are some magical weapons there:


Some experiments to fuse this particle to recent weapons were made:


The Pods use the same angelic runes in Replicant and Drakengard to cast their abilities/magic:

Pods are also able to translate angelic language

Not enough? Well, we have this:

A direct statement from Yoko Taro himself stating that the YoRHa units uses Maso for their abilities. As clean as a river.

So yeah, Magic for YoRHa Androids... but that's not all.

Exactly what those Maso brings besides magic?

As the page I quoted before says:

Maso itself is an extradimensional element instead of a "natural" one.

Also stated here:

So Maso can be treated as a higher-dimensional particle, due to all its relations with multidimensional realities and extradimensional planes.

Not only that, but also we see how the Maso-related abilities warp space around. I can't give a specific showcase, so I will leave this here for now.


And it's stated to be able to ignore all systems of defense, which I think qualify for Durability Negation.

Moreover, Maso correlates with quantum mechanics, and thanks to this connection is able to recollect the history of the world, and the information of everyone there, thus, being able to create perfect copies of someone thanks to that information.

Summarizing, all Maso users (basically everyone in-verse) should have the following abilities:

-Magic
-Higher-Dimensional Manipulation
-Spatial Manipulation
-Durability Negation
-Quantum Manipulation
-Information Manipulation

Should be also noted that, as they clearly are tanking attacks based on this energy, they also gain resistance to the aforementioned abilities.

Amazing, right? Well, that's not all I have to say.

Don't know the verse but this was shared elsewhere so I feel the need to give input.

This part looks mostly fine. I think Information Manipulation is questionable, and I didn't really see any spatial manip in the scans provided? Everything else is fine though.

So I completed Automata not so long.

First things first:

This is the best game ever made in existence.

Now with that stated we can continue with this.

Through my research of lore and extra information, I found many interesting details that could be added to the profiles.

Let's start then~.

Ah yeah. If someone here somehow still didn't finished the game yet, then please don't look at this. Please, don't ruin your experience, because there's A LOT of spoilers of the game. So please close this and open that NieR:Automata file in your computer and finish the game!

Now with that warning made let's start for real.

Magical Technology and Those Weird Lights​

So let's start by saying that all the characters in NieR:Automata needs to have listed Magic in their profiles.

Why? Well it's pretty simple.

First, there's the existence of Maso particles. These are basically the things that allow the usage of magic through the whole series, from Drakengard, to Automata.

And even if in the recent timeline this particles is nearly inexistent, there are still a considerable amount of it, and in fact, is being constantly used by both YoRHa and Machines.

There are some magical weapons there:


Some experiments to fuse this particle to recent weapons were made:


The Pods use the same angelic runes in Replicant and Drakengard to cast their abilities/magic:

Pods are also able to translate angelic language

Not enough? Well, we have this:

A direct statement from Yoko Taro himself stating that the YoRHa units uses Maso for their abilities. As clean as a river.

So yeah, Magic for YoRHa Androids... but that's not all.

Exactly what those Maso brings besides magic?

As the page I quoted before says:

Maso itself is an extradimensional element instead of a "natural" one.

Also stated here:

So Maso can be treated as a higher-dimensional particle, due to all its relations with multidimensional realities and extradimensional planes.

Not only that, but also we see how the Maso-related abilities warp space around. I can't give a specific showcase, so I will leave this here for now.


And it's stated to be able to ignore all systems of defense, which I think qualify for Durability Negation.

Moreover, Maso correlates with quantum mechanics, and thanks to this connection is able to recollect the history of the world, and the information of everyone there, thus, being able to create perfect copies of someone thanks to that information.

Summarizing, all Maso users (basically everyone in-verse) should have the following abilities:

-Magic
-Higher-Dimensional Manipulation
-Spatial Manipulation
-Durability Negation
-Quantum Manipulation
-Information Manipulation

Should be also noted that, as they clearly are tanking attacks based on this energy, they also gain resistance to the aforementioned abilities.

Amazing, right? Well, that's not all I have to say.

Mechanical Cores in a Semi-Philosophical Way​

Now let's talk about a more strange topic related to Machines and YoRHa Androids.

But first, remember this:

(Top Secret) Black Box

[Top Secret] Black Box is an archive in NieR:Automata. It contains information pertaining to the black boxes installed in each YoRHa android. Found on the fourth floor of the Soul Box. It will be the last item encountered, depending on whichever chest 9S chooses to unlock first.

nier.fandom.com

This is essentially stating that both machines and YoRHa androids are the same being, has the same structure, and have the same conscience. So, with that being said, most parts regarding this are interchangeable between YoRHa and Machine (obviously not everything, like the fusionism capability of Machines, but the essentials yes).

So why this matters?

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell...

Machine Research Report

Machine Research Report is an archive in NieR:Automata. Contained is an analysis on the machine lifeform network and their intelligence, which resulted in a never-ending stalemate between the androids and machines as described by the android Jackass. This archive can be obtained by playing the...

nier.fandom.com

This is pretty clear: Machine Network basically transcended itself, to a point of becoming an even more developed AI. Not only that, but also, after compiling the information of Project Gestalt, it transformed into something beyond, a meta-network, a concept itself.

Further support for this is N2 statement, explaining how they are conceptual images of human personalities within the Machine Network, and thus, they can't be destroyed.

Please remember that N2 is basically the whole Network itself, and so, this nature should be shared with every Machine Lifeform.

Which gives to all of them Type 1 Abstract Existence.

"But Hecatia,, then why they have a physical body if they are abstracts?"

And that's because their physical bodies aren't they true beings. The physical bodies are just objects brought so they can totally interact with the physical world, but the true core of a Machine isn't physical at all, and they exist within the Network itself.

Further prove for this is Ending D, which shows us how the data of machines exist beyond they physical bodies, and is collected within the Ark.

And remember that YoRHa = Machine?

Well with that said it's clear that characters such as 2B, A2, and 9S should also gain this ability, and with them it's more direct how they don't rely on physical bodies, as this aren't part of their beings, but are something provided by the Council of the Moon so they can fight.

I think that, as most of their abilities come from the network too, perhaps some Data Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation could be given? Well, I'll leave that here anyway.

Well. With that being said, I think this thread can be finally finish-LIE.

"And that's because their physical bodies aren't they true beings. The physical bodies are just objects brought so they can totally interact with the physical world, but the true core of a Machine isn't physical at all, and they exist within the Network itself." ...That's literally what type 2 AE is though. Physical bodies with a conceptual state of existence beyond that. The fact that physical forms are a factor at all makes type 1 AE a no go, but type 2 seems pretty blatant in my eyes. Everything else is fine.

Undertalen't​

I talked about the nature of Maso. I talked about the metaphysics of Machine and YoRHa Network. So what's left?

Well, now I'm going to talk about a weird unknown event present throughout the whole NieR, and Drakengard, series.

First, let's remember that both games are connected within the same verse.

The whole plot of NieR:Replicant was caused due to Drakengard's Ending E.

Heck, the connection between the games is literally further supported by the existence of Maso, which was something originally from Drakengard.

Even in NieR:Automata is stated the existence of Drakengard with this:

Project Gestalt Report 1

Project Gestalt Report 1 is an archive in NieR:Automata. It is the first installment in a series of reports detailing past events concerning the White Chlorination Syndrome. This archive can be acquired alongside Report 2 and 3 by hacking a node in the Abandoned Factory during 9S's attempt to...

nier.fandom.com

So it's an objective fact that both games are connected.

And why this matters at all?

Due to this:

Timelines

The timelines of the Drakengard series, including all the possible outcomes and routes. Primarily based on information included in the Drag-on Dragoon World Inside book that was included with the 10th Anniversary Box.[1] Additional sources are stated next to the events they relate to. Setting...

drakengard.fandom.com

This event basically affects the main protagonists of each game, which guides them throughout each of the endings, dividing the timeline in the process.

More evidence can be see here:
1:27:56 <- Exact time of the statement.

And in the official guide:


So from what I see, this could give to the protagonists Space-Time Manipulation, and Causality Manipulation, and Multiversal range through the Multiple-World Divergence Phenomenon. It should be limited tho, but something really interesting anyway.

No problems here. Like I said, I don't know the verse, so please don't involve me in the inevitable back and forth debates this thread will bring.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

a

 

[Nierre]

This is the best game ever made in existence.

I agree 100%

 

[Nierre]

I'll go through this later, I've only played Automata and Replicant so I'll just touch on what I remember

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This is the best game ever made in existence.

Someone hasn't played Elden Ring.

Some of this is fine, I'll go into detail with some stuff later on.

Also Androids should get minor organic manipulation or biological manipulation since they can generate liquids in their bodies if they so choose.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Someone hasn't played Elden Ring

Sorry but
There's Jesus (Miyazaki)
And there's the Holy Spirit (Zun)
And then there's God (Yoko Taro)

Also Androids should get minor organic manipulation or biological manipulation since they can generate liquids in their bodies if they so choose.

Well that's reasonable. Dunno why I didn't thought about that.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

This looks good but I know nothing of automata so meh

A lot will change for this verse once I get everything I need tho

 

[Random-Helper323]

All this seems fine, although the part about causality and space-time manipulation would at very least not be combat applicable.

I have noticed that the pages for Nier/Drakengard are kind of a mess. Drakengard has no verse page and it isn't listed as part of the Nier page either. Personally I'd think the best way to do it would be to either combine the pages and have them listed in subcategories, or to have seperate pages, each with links to the other. They are the same verse after all.

It's important to remember that the magic in Nier actually largely comes from the Queen Beast and from Caim and Angelus, and the magic we see in Nier is the result of combining that magic with technology. This means the magic should be more or less the same.

As one of maybe five people who has finished both Drakengard and Drakengard 2, I actually do have some extra abilities to suggest, but this kind of caught me unprepared, so I don't have clips to prove it. But I will list and describe them in a bit. Some of them I think will apply to Nier characters.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

All this seems fine, although the part about causality and space-time manipulation would at very least not be combat applicable.

Yeh, I know. That's why I said it should be some limited ability.

I have noticed that the pages for Nier/Drakengard are kind of a mess. Drakengard has no verse page and it isn't listed as part of the Nier page either. Personally I'd think the best way to do it would be to either combine the pages and have them listed in subcategories, or to have seperate pages, each with links to the other. They are the same verse after all.

I think should be better to add Drakengard to the NieR page, and then separate it between each game. But well, that's somehow more complicated, because not only Drakengard should be added, but also, SINoALICE, and possibly Voice of Cards too. And that could be kinda hard due to the obscurity of these games.

As one of maybe five people who has finished both Drakengard and Drakengard 2, I actually do have some extra abilities to suggest, but this kind of caught me unprepared, so I don't have clips to prove it. But I will list and describe them in a bit. Some of them I think will apply to Nier characters.

Welp, even if you don't have scans at hand, I would like to know the proposals, just for curiosity .

 

[Random-Helper323]

Some abilities shown in Drakengard 1 and 2, off the top of my head. Apologies in advance; it's a bit lengthy.

Extrasensory Perception: This ability is demonstrated multiple times. Most clearly is the time in Drakengard 2 when Manah states that she senses the power of a key nearby, and her ability to always know when Caim is anywhere near her. This ability is also shown in Drakengard 1, most clearly in the prelude to endings 4 and 5 when Leonard states that he senses a powerful enemy nearby and realises it's Manah, and also when the Union wins the battle on the big field and Angelus warns Caim that something evil is coming. Legna also says early in Drakengard 2 that he senses a formidable foe when an undead knight appears. With this ability being so universal, an argument could easily be made for everyone who has magic possessing some form of it. Given that this ability is an answer to stealth, it's useful. It's probably part of where the pods get that ability to detect hostile machines nearby.

Resistance to Possession: In endings 2 and 3 in Drakengard 2, Manah is attacked by the Bone Casket which intends to possess her and use her, presumably something similar to the flower using the Intoners. Depending on how strong Manah is, she resists it to different extents. In ending 2 she gets possessed by it briefly and then succeeds in destroying it from within along with herself, after projecting her voice outwards to say her final words to Nowe and Legna. In ending 3 she straight up absorbs it, overpowering it.

Power Bestowal: In Drakengard 2, ending 3, Nowe states that he can sense Manah, and that her power is energising him.

Exorcism: Nowe is able to forcibly remove God's influence from Manah's mind without harming her. Caim and Angelus also removed its influence from her, but they achieved it far more violently. The creature possessing Manah is somewhat ambiguous, but the fact that it claims to "create and rule above all" indicates it is likely God himself. This meshes well with 2B's statement that she wonders if she'll ever be able to kill the God that cursed the world with such an existence.

Immersion: Nowe literally enters Manah's mind to banish the possessing entity. It is unknown if this was achieved using Nowe's power or Manah's or both, but it happened. Interestingly, one of the backgrounds looks like blood vessels, and Nowe says to her that he's sorry, and that it might hurt, but he has to do what he's doing, indicating a possible ability to physically harm her brain or mind from there.

Telekinesis: Manah uses her staff in battle by moving it around telekinetically. This ability is in her profile, but her use of it to control her weapon is not.

Resistance to Magic: Manah is able to walk through Yaha's trap room which contains magic lightning thundering through it. Nowe and Urick get hit over and over if they go through, whereas Manah doesn't. The game even states "only those with powerful magic" can go through.

Necromancy: Manah and other mages are able to resurrect undead to fight for them. Even Angelus seems to have this power, since in Drakengard 2 Nowe states that Angelus seems to be controlling the movements of an undead knight. Granted he might be wrong; those undead were likely Union soldiers who would of course protect Caim and Angelus. However, we do know that knights were guarding the same place earlier, and were bored because nothing was happening. What's more, Angelus sprayed fire through the whole castle when she woke up. This proves the undead weren't there until after that, indicating it was indeed Angelus who raised them.

Reactive Evolution (Dragons and Nowe): The dragons evolve into stronger forms when the situation becomes more dangerous. Nowe also demonstrates this ability when he turns into the New Breed, and when his powers keep growing the more he fights.

Accelerated Development (Nowe): Nowe is able to grow stronger in a matter of a day or so, going from fighting Gismor evenly to easily overwhelming him, likely due to fighting Caim, who is stronger than Gismor, in between the fights. Nowe literally seems to adapt to the strength of his enemy, having grown to match Caim and thus leaving Gismor outmatched. His first fight with Gismor (he was allied with Urick as well) and his fight with Caim (alone) happened mere hours apart. It should be noted that Nowe combines abilities from multiple sources; he was formed by the Bone Casket (God's power, similar to Intoners) out of a being who carried a Goddess seal (human magic to counter God) and another who was in a pact with a holy dragon (dragon and holy dragon powers). He and Caim also stand as the only two characters to have defeated some of the strongest dragons, a feat even Zero seemed incapable of. Interestingly, Caim and Angelus also defeated a Wyrm seemingly without too much trouble, something Zero and Mikhail needed to be rescued from.

Regeneration (Gismor): Gismor regrew or reattached his arm after Nowe cut it off. Gismor is a pact partner whose pact is annoyingly vague, but it doesn't seem as if he should have anything Nowe and others don't have. There is also the fact that Caim and Angelus were fatally wounded before they made their pact, but after the pact the wounds instantly heal.

Limited Resistance to Illusions: Yaha casts an illusion that makes his fortress seem to have a wall blocking the main passageway, and when Manah walks past the illusionary wall she says something isn't quite right about the fortress. In addition, Yaha is able to hypnotise people by looking into their eyes, and Urick is seemingly resistant to it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This looks good but I know nothing of automata so meh

A lot will change for this verse once I get everything I need tho

Make the Drakengard verse page and add Nier into it.

As for the rest of the OP, I think everything is ok besides the timeline stuff. That seems entirely circumstantial and would be non-combat applicable at best.

Sorry but
There's Jesus (Miyazaki)
And there's the Holy Spirit (Zun)
And then there's God (Yoko Taro)

You forgot YHVH (Suda51)

 

[Random-Helper323]

Make the Drakengard verse page and add Nier into it.

That does seem efficient, but Nier is much more famous (courtesy of 2B's butt), so it's best if the name of the page contains Nier as well, or can at least be easily found with that name.

You forgot YHVH (Suda51)

And Jehovah (Hideki Kamiya)

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Welp. So I assume now I can start making the changes(?. Although, I will make first a sandbox for that.

Also I think that the changes for the verse in general should be for another time, since, as I said, that's a more complex discussion to be made.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This shit crazy.

I agree

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Done.

I also decided to separate the abilities with tabbers, so it can be more clean and organized.

Also added some other minor abilities, and removed the Raiden match, as with the upgrades it would be a stomp from 2B.

I can add some scans if you want tho.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

removed the Raiden match

How exactly?

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I mean, I just removed the fight in the "Notable Losses" section of the sandbox. Although idk if that's allowed with the changes tbh. I will wait for more input regarding the sandbox so I can finally start with the main changes for most characters.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Probably best to leave the Raiden match for now. I'm also not sure these abilities make it a stomp. Raiden is infamously dangerous in versus threads. More important to focus on the actual revisions.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I mean, Abstract Existence basically means that he can't do anything to 2B. Also now has resistance to durability negation and such, which from what I see it's the best ability of Raiden.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I mean, Abstract Existence basically means that he can't do anything to 2B. Also now has resistance to durability negation and such, which from what I see it's the best ability of Raiden.

Best to focus on the actual revisions. We can make a rematch thread afterwards and discuss it all there.

 

[TheAngryOrange]

Woo, that was a read. I don't really frequent VS battle so I had to look up half the terminology and I only do Automata and Replicant so I'll stick to what I know.

I think it should be Type 2 Abstraction since there are physical bodies. N2 might be able to get away with Type 1 but YorHa do have their bodies. But I agree with the quantum abilities that result from it.

Someone above said information manipulation is questionable but I think it could be argued since Nier somehow managed to erase himself from existence. I just don't know how far this applies because frankly I never figured out how he managed to pull it off. Though it could be rather wide spread since Kaine and Emil manage to unerase him.

I agree with space-time manipulation and causality manipulation though how this applies I think will end up being limited. This seems to be an ability of singularities so it might only be applied to singularities.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I think it should be Type 2 Abstraction since there are physical bodies. N2 might be able to get away with Type 1 but YorHa do have their bodies. But I agree with the quantum abilities that result from it.

I don't think the physical bodies should mean Type 2 AE. I mean, yes, they have one, but this isn't their true beings, it's mostly like an avatar or something like that. Type 2 is for characters that are physical yet embodies a concept, but here they aren't truly physical.

Anywayyy. A day has already passed sooo I think I will proceed to apply the upgrades since they were all accepted~.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

dONE.

Welp I finally finished with the additions. So, perhaps this can now be closed?

 

[Sir_Ovens]